New kickstarter - Voltera - Print - Paste - and toast :) your prototype board

[mikeselectricstuff]

Yeah, like James Dyson really can't afford to get PCBs made next-day.....

[RobertBG]

Yeah, like James Dyson really can't afford to get PCBs made next-day.....

True but that's not what the award is about 

    At first I was really excited about this but the more I've looked into it the less practical it is for me at this point in time.While it can be argued that it's not of much use to a serious engineer or hobbyist I can see it really helping some of the younger generation get and stay involved in electronics.It would be a real shame if this turned out to be a one trick pony,I think they could in time make it into something great.Lately it can be argued that things are getting further and further away from the hobbyist level and more specialized compared to how things where in the 80's.Products such as this could really open doors and possibly fuel a resurgence on the hobby level.Similar to what modern 3d printers have done for the average hobbyist.The "I want it now" generation really wants a point and click solution for just about everything and waiting for boards and parts really could turn some away,being able to click print till they get it right instead of turn around time for a few boards should keep more than a few from getting discouraged.I also wouldn't mind being able to find a real electronics/hobby shop too but that's a whole different issue.This is not for everyone but it definitely has its place and hopefully leads to better things for us all in the future.

[tooki]

I noticed on the specs that the reflow function requires the use of bismuth solder. I'm not an expert like you guys, but isn't that kinda... suboptimal for most situations?

[edavid]

I noticed on the specs that the reflow function requires the use of bismuth solder. I'm not an expert like you guys, but isn't that kinda... suboptimal for most situations?

Where did you find that?  Does bismuth solder paste really exist?

[tooki]

Where did you find that?  Does bismuth solder paste really exist?

http://voltera.io/index.html#specs

Maybe they're having it custom made.

[mux]

Wood's metal solder or Bismuth solder is fairly available: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roses-metal-Rose-metal-Bismuth-Lead-Tin-alloy-100-g-LOW-MELTING-SOLDER-/281801724005?hash=item419cb11065:g:JJwAAOSwKIpV-Zo0

It's a very, very soft metal that you can literally just put in a mortar and pestle, grind into a paste-like consistency, add flux and you have solder paste. Even a bit cheaper than regular solder paste that way. Alternatively, I've seen people make microbeads by heating it up in a syringe and squirting it out, creating a stream of small beads.

[rs20]

It's a very, very soft metal that you can literally just put in a mortar and pestle, grind into a paste-like consistency...

This doesn't sound like an ideal solder! Especially for surface mount components, solder is of mechanical importance...

[kaz911]

Voltera has updated specs. Gone is the "isolated ink" - in is true dual sided print.

1. So do side 1 (print & bake)

2. Drill holes for VIA's

3. Cover already printed side with masking tape

4. Manually push in the "track" paste into via holes from "blank side"

5. Remove tape - and print side 2

6. Bake (after which you should have fully functional VIA's

7. Deposit solder paste

8. Deposit components

9. Reflow on Voltera

DONE.

https://youtu.be/iMqxk5a3u0Q

Update here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/voltera/voltera-your-circuit-board-prototyping-machine/posts/1546761

[Kean]

It sounds like it relies heavily on their template boards with known features on both sides for accurate alignment.  An expensive solution, but still quite neat and pretty fast turn around which has educational value.  And I guess you could always get you own custom templates made in advance if you have some specific layouts you want to use.  Or possibly someone will make a hack to use some "known" but manually drilled holes for alignment from one side to the other.

I did like the idea of multiple layers on a single side by printing the insulator material (like old school remote control and calculators).  It doesn't quite match today's real PCB manufacturing though, but again it could be used in creative ways, for small runs.

Of course my recent designs are using even smaller parts than before (many 0402, and devices that rely on thermal pads) so this would be pretty useless for me, and many other professionals.  I did back the project, but only to get a ruler. 

[edavid]

It sounds like it relies heavily on their template boards with known features on both sides for accurate alignment.

No, you don't have to use template boards at all.

P.S. Have they ever said how much the ink is going to cost?

[Kean]

No, you don't have to use template boards at all.

Then I must be missing something - how does it align top to bottom?
In the video they mention that the template has "premade features" - i.e the Arduino header pins - that need to be probed for alignment.
So when you turn a non-template board over, what does it probe to do the alignment?  You have to include some alignment vias I guess. 

P.S. Have they ever said how much the ink is going to cost?

I think so, at least an estimate, but that was so long ago it doesn't mean much.  No pricing for consumable on their website, but you can order a machine! 

[voltera]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the thoughts and feedback! We really appreciate hearing what you think.

As for 2-sided boards, you don't need a template board at all. The printer will orient itself to the location of your drilled pads rather than templated vias. You need to manually locate two drilled holes on the board using the probe, then the printer will orient itself to the rest of the board based on the location of your initial two holes.

I hope that's helpful. Let me know if we can ever be of assistance!

- Kelly

[eeadata]

What about robustness ? Durability ?

BTW (i hate arduino )

[voltera]

What about robustness ? Durability ?

Hi Eeadata,
One of our batch 1 Kickstarter backers printed a board and tried to destroy it and wasn't able to scrape the traces off the board. We are currently undergoing lifetime testing of the ink under constant load in-house, and we are at the 4 month mark without seeing any degradation in ink quality. That said, these boards are meant to be prototype boards and not meant to replace mass manufactured PCBs.

- Kelly

[eeadata]

Thanks For reply.

i asked robustness for soldering termal stress  , surface corrosion etc . not mechanical stress.

[voltera]

Thanks For reply.

i asked robustness for soldering termal stress  , surface corrosion etc . not mechanical stress.

Hi,
That's all the information I have right now, as durability tests are ongoing. Once we have done more testing we will definitely be blogging about it. If you let me know what information you are specifically looking for I can look into it further and let you know when we have findings.

- Kelly

[kaz911]

And Kelly just notified my that my Voltera is ready to ship  - exiting

[MarkS]

I get what this is and what it does, but please tell me why I should spend $2200 USD for a device that is so restricted? I can buy a large format V-Carve for half that and carve out the traces with the appropriate bit. Not only that, but I could use any size board I can get my hands on. Oh! And then I could switch bits and machine the case for the board. Yes, I get that I would lose the solder paste application and reflow ability, but is that worth the added expense and otherwise limited functionality? This seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[EEVblog]

This seems like a solution looking for a problem.

This seems to be the case.
The Aussie startup Cartesian Co doing this with the EX-1 printer has folded I believe. The usage case just wasn't there, it could never live up to the hype.
The website is still there but the main founder is now working full time at some other startup.
http://www.cartesianco.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arielbriner
http://www.startupsmart.com.au/profiles/how-i-did-it/big-apple-beckons-for-aussie-3d-printing-startup-with-visions-of-making-truly-wearable-tech/

[kaz911]

It was more relevant for me before when I lived in the UAE where getting PCB's could take at least 2 weeks - + 2-6 weeks in customs plus maybe a trip to the central police station to explain what the empty PCSs was for. So on average it took me 4-6 weeks to get prototype PCB's and a heck of a lot of hassle.

I have done my fair share of etching - and that worked ok - but I had to smuggle in parts as you could not even get Flux or other "dangerous" chemicals as they require a license to import. So even the big companies like RS UAE (a local distributor for RS)  - did not have stock of flux or acid for etching and would not take orders. I could find things sometimes at small shops but then usually acid granules had gotten moisture from bad storage. Bottled stuff was impossible to find. I bought a lot at export farnell - but again anything hazardous - not available - even flux pens could not be shipped.

But I'm still looking forward to trying it and since I was an Early Bird backer - I got it at a sensible price. I would not pay $2300 for it.

[mikeselectricstuff]

This seems like a solution looking for a problem.

This seems to be the case.
The Aussie startup Cartesian Co doing this with the EX-1 printer has folded I believe. The usage case just wasn't there, it could never live up to the hype.
The website is still there but the main founder is now working full time at some other startup.
http://www.cartesianco.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arielbriner
http://www.startupsmart.com.au/profiles/how-i-did-it/big-apple-beckons-for-aussie-3d-printing-startup-with-visions-of-making-truly-wearable-tech/

I met him while I was out in SF.
Basically after they'd finished & shipped the kickstarter model, they spent a lot of time talking to potential commercial customers about what they wanted from a PCB prototyping system, and the conclusion was that people wanted pretty much state-of-the art PCB design rules - fine lines, multilayer, tiny holes etc. as all teh money was in wearables, IoT etc. 
This  was unlikely to be feasible even if they spent a ton of money on further development (They hired some ex-HP inkjet experts to examine what was possible), so they decided to pull the plug, and I believe paid back all of their investors. (Something ubeam could learn a lesson from!) 

[EEVblog]

I met him while I was out in SF.
Basically after they'd finished & shipped the kickstarter model, they spent a lot of time talking to potential commercial customers about what they wanted from a PCB prototyping system, and the conclusion was that people wanted pretty much state-of-the art PCB design rules - fine lines, multilayer, tiny holes etc. as all teh money was in wearables, IoT etc. 
This  was unlikely to be feasible even if they spent a ton of money on further development

I tried to tell them that a few years back, and it was obvious to anyone in the industry, but they were young and keen so they didn't want to hear that of course. But ultimately it was never going to happen. At least they had a go and got some experience.

(They hired some ex-HP inkjet experts to examine what was possible), so they decided to pull the plug, and I believe paid back all of their investors. (Something ubeam could learn a lesson from!)

 

[CJay]

I tried to tell them that a few years back, and it was obvious to anyone in the industry, but they were young and keen so they didn't want to hear that of course. But ultimately it was never going to happen. At least they had a go and got some experience.

I like that people try, even when I rag on people who are being idiots (and I'm damn sure I have been in the past and will be again) it's with the intention of pushing them along to sort out what's wrong (in my opinion) with their ideas.

Nobody ever gets experience by not doing something and who knows, unfeasible but not impossible, there may be a step change in PCB CAM out there just about to be released.

[MarkS]

I'd rather see a Kickstarter for a solder paste applicator for the V-Carve or other CNC router. THAT would be useful!

[kaz911]

I'd rather see a Kickstarter for a solder paste applicator for the V-Carve or other CNC router. THAT would be useful!

if nothing else I can use mine as a paste applicator *G* and mini oven. But lets see how it works. Now that it does "true" double sided there would be less changes to make a production board if I can keep > 0603's. But Pin to Pin pitch is a bit on the high side even for what I do.