Professional ITIC USB 2.0 LS/FS/HS Protocol Analyzer Kickstarter Project

[John_ITIC]

Hi fellow EEs!

This is my first post but I have been watching Dave's videos for a long time.

I'm a professional EE with some 20+ years of experience. I have during the last 9 years developed a line of USB and PCI Express Protocol Analyzers.

[miguelvp]

I know a lot of things have changed in Windows 8, but maybe you should think about adding that support?

Plus what does yours do than
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/openvizsla-still/

can't do and it's already shipping?

[John_ITIC]

The existing 1480A and 2500A USB/PCIe Analyzers do support Windows 8. There's nothing new in Windows 8 over Windows 7 on the operating system level except for a bunch of fluff in the GUI for new pad-type computers. Existing USB drivers will work and existing .NET applications will run unchanged.

[miguelvp]

By a lot of things changing I meant more lambdas and more asynchronous APIs for networking on the client side of programming. But I haven't done any device drivers lately so it might be the same in that aspect.

Maybe you should add Windows 8 support to your description if you support it.

But $250 of the link I offered that is shipping now vs $200 as an upgrade to existing hardware or $600 for the hardware of your (older) existing product, and $800 for the new one might be too steep, specially since you don't have a cute dog that chews through USB data

[John_ITIC]

I don't want to bash the Openviszla project but you have to compare apples with apples.

Openviszla is a bare hobby board with some sample code. It can not be used for actual lab work unless the user puts in a huge amount of work and designs the needed FPGA HDL and PC software  And, of course, that's the whole point of Openviszla. It is an experiment board for engineers to learn about USB. As an out-of-the-box usable test instruments in the lab - not so much.
On their Kickstarter page, the PHY speed is hardcoded so it can not track the device connection, device and host chirp sequence nor auto-configure the PHY for the correct speed. You would need to research and implement around 100 complex states to properly track all scenarios the PHY will need to be configured in.

As far as Openviszla software goes, all i have seen are essentially debug print statements of the raw packet data. That is far from the higher-level protocol items such as packet decoding, transaction parsing, descriptor decoding and all the other analysis features that are included in an actual full-blown Protocol Analyzer design.

And, yes, i understand that the community may want to use the Openviszla board to create a more advanced, usable protocol analyzer solution some time in the future. Sort of like Linux. Time will tell if that will happen.

[miguelvp]

> lambdas and more asynchronous APIs for networking on the client side of programming?

Huh? 

Maybe it didn't change that much for USB other than they now have overlapped support for async programming, but their network API is way different and winINet is a thing of the past (finally!!!).

Don't look at the price - look at what you get for your money.

Openviszla is a bare hobby board with some sample code. It can not be used for actual lab work unless the user puts in a huge amount of work and writes a complete PC software  And, of course, that's the whole point of Openviszla. As an out-of-the-box test instruments in the lab - no way! Per their Kickstarter page, the PHY speed is hardcoded so it can not track the device connection, device and host chirp sequence nor auto-configure the PHY for the correct speed.

The ITIC USB/PCIe Protocol Analyzers are professional-quality products with full-featured software that directly competes with other professional products from companies such as LeCroy, Ellisys and TotalPhase. But at a price 30% to 50% lower. So you'll find it is a bargain 

Ok, I won't worry about price, but how it's your product better than OpenVizsla? (other than the cute dog chewing the USB cable?), as a hobbyist I think $600 it's quite a bit and I didn't see any videos of the USB protocol analyzer demos or the PCI Express for that matter, I saw the tutorials but no API or anything like that for custom USB (or PCI express) hardware.

I did see you offer some Windows XP drivers SP2. But nothing since then. I do hope they are still compatible.

But how about live demos of the USB analyzer analyzing through an unknown device?

[macgyver0815]

Well the PCIe Product looks like very good hw quality:
http://www.internationaltestinstruments.com/images/thumbs/0000200.jpg

Altera Arria II GX is a good mid range part.
OpenViszla can't match that.

But Cyclone II for the USB product - is a bit outdated, isn't it?
Yeah FPGA world is progessing slowly (and never touch a running system), I know, but this part is no longer supported since Quartus 13.1 as far as I know...

[mikeselectricstuff]

One comment is that there is way, way too much detail on that KS page for most people to digest- I think this should be severely condensed, with links to more detailed info elsewhere.

You say that one reason for going to KS is to get word of mouth. A significant target market will be hackers and reverse engineers, so you should probably highlight the device's capabilities for reverse-engineering existing products. The current text seems to assume that people will already know why they need a USB analyser - I think you should probably add some stuff to explain what it can do at a higher level rather than diving into esoteric details like PHY states etc.

You absolutely must have an open interface or plug-in architecture that allows people to interface to it to add their own triggering/logging/decoding functionality.

You should also probably say why you aren't supporting USB3 as people will ask about that and comment that it's outated for not supporting it.
If you can incorporate some upgrade path to USB3 (e.g. connector for new PHY etc.) that would be even better

[John_ITIC]

Thanks for the feedback.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I agree that for most people it may be too much to digest but this product is not for most people.  It is intended for professional engineers and advanced hobbyists. If I have to explain what a protocol analyzer is then the reader is probably looking at the wrong KS project.

Yes, you shouldn't have to explain what an analyzer is, but some of your potential market will be software-oriented people who just want to get at the data at a fairly high level, and a description that makes it clear this can be done without needing to understand the lowest-level goings on may be helpful to this market.   

From a marketing perspective, it is better to have all information right there on one page. People assume that too much information will confuse a reader/customer but if the reader is the one intended as 'target' then he/she will want as much information as possible and will have no trouble digesting it.

Maybe, but structure is important as well. Remember some of your potential market are more software than hardware oriented.

You absolutely must have an open interface or plug-in architecture that allows people to interface to it to add their own triggering/logging/decoding functionality.

Yes! Thank you for reminding me. One customer request over the years has been some form of plug-in system that allows them to decode custom device classes automatically. Currently, the 1480A USB Protocol Analyzer only decodes the USB 2.0 base protocols, not add-on device classes later described in the various follow-on specs. The reason for this is that it is very time-consuming and complex. I actually, may have to go to Kickstarter for a separate campaign just for the class-decoding capability since lots of potential classes and decoders are needed.
[/quote]
I'd strongly suggest that you make sure there is some way to interface to it from day one - people digging into this stuff will be more than happy to write their own decoders etc. if there is provision in there to do so. You may well get people contributing their own decoders, which has to be a win-win situation.

There is a good reason why USB 3.0 Protocol Analyzers cost many thousand of dollars. The same goes for PCI Express...
Finally, USB 2.0 is far from outdated. The absolutely majority of USB devices have no need to transfer data at 5 Gbps. USB 2.0 can transfer data around 40 MByte/s which is perfectly sufficient for anything but the most advanced bulk transfer applications.

I know that, you know that, but the software person interested in reverse-engineering some new hardware may not. You WILL get people asking about USB3, so some explananation as to why they don't need it would probably be useful.

[John_ITIC]

Altera Arria II GX is a good mid range part.
OpenViszla can't match that.

Everything is carefully planned to fit, including 10 layer board checked with Hyperlynx with regards to power and signal integrity. The board area is so small so some optimization was required to ensure proper power plane impedance for all FPGA device pins. The DDR2 SODIMM also consumes a fair amount of power (1.8V/3A) which required some extra layout work with regards to PI.

[borg]

Hello John_ITIC,

Could you explain the advantage of your external USB protocol analyzer compared to using Wireshark?

I have been using Wireshark a lot to debug/reverse engineer USB protocols. I have even written my own Wireshark dissector for a specific custom-class protocol.

I guess my question is: What can an external USB protocol analyzer capture that the PC itself can't capture? Broken packets, wrong timings, ...? All of the example seem to be of generally working USB communication, which i can capture with the PC itself.

Thanks!

[Bassman59]

I guess my question is: What can an external USB protocol analyzer capture that the PC itself can't capture? Broken packets, wrong timings, ...? All of the example seem to be of generally working USB communication, which i can capture with the PC itself.

If a device refuses to enumerate, a hardware analyzer is invaluable.

[John_ITIC]

Hello John_ITIC,

Could you explain the advantage of your external USB protocol analyzer compared to using Wireshark?

I have been using Wireshark a lot to debug/reverse engineer USB protocols. I have even written my own Wireshark dissector for a specific custom-class protocol.

I guess my question is: What can an external USB protocol analyzer capture that the PC itself can't capture? Broken packets, wrong timings, ...? All of the example seem to be of generally working USB communication, which i can capture with the PC itself.

Thanks!

There are many, so called, "software USB protocol analyzers", none of which are actually analyzing the USB protocol at all! For example, on a Windows platform, software can install "filter drivers" that intercept "messages" going to and from a USB device's device Driver. On Windows, these messages are called URBs (USB Request Blocks). Essentially, a Filter Driver will install itself "above" a particular class of host device drivers (such as over a target device's custom windows driver) and will then intercept all data buffers that are exchanged between the operating system and the target device's device driver. However, these exchanged messages (URBs) are not the same as the USB Protocol! In fact, the exchanged URBs look nothing like the USB protocol at all! Some of the data intercepted (such as descriptors and raw IN and OUT transaction data) is able to be captured correctly by software-only "snoopers" though.

Actual USB traffic takes place between a USB hardware chip (called the Host Controller) and a target device. The Host Controller schedules traffic to and from the target devices that are attached to the host controller. This traffic scheduling is done by the host controller driver (not be confused by a USB device's driver, which is layered "above" the host controller driver in the operating system) in a master / slave relationship.

A hardware protocol analyzer will capture the actual packets, bus events and much more information as it is actually occurring on the bus under test. For instance, it shows you timing of protocol information, causes of communications errors, allows you to debug checksum and other issues on the bus.

In short, a hardware protocol analyzer will allow you to debug low-level target device firmware and host controller driver issues that prevent the communication from working properly. Also, only a hardware protocol analyzer can tell you whether the efficiency of the communication is optimal. Like you state, if the communication is working and you are only interested in the actual data being exchanged, a software analyzer will do the job.

For examples of what a USB protocol analyzer can do, take a look at this tutorial, we wrote years ago:
http://www.internationaltestinstruments.com/topic/11-1480a-usb-protocol-analyzer-software-tutorial.aspx

Also, download the ITIC 1480A USB Protocol analyzer software. It includes sample captures that you can load and examine to learn more about what the actual USB protocol looks like on the wire:
http://www.internationaltestinstruments.com/topic/6-1480a-usb-protocol-analyzer-software-downloads.aspx

Thanks,
/John.

[techydude]

let me start by saying I'd love to see you and your products succeed.  ITIC came up in my googling when i was looking for a h/w USB analyser a few months back, and I almost sprang for the 1480A, but a cheap 2nd-hand Ellisys USB Explorer 200 came up on eBay (a rare event) so I took the plunge there, as my needs are still fairly loosely defined (ask me again in a month! lol).  I know it's no consolation now, but you were about to be my 1st choice.

having said all that, I think your presentation & 'marketing' for this KS campaign is a train wreck about to happen.

i agree with MikesElectricStuff's feedback 100%

i strongly urge you to simplify the first screen-full of text, and carefully consider who your target market is, and what amount of time they're going to have to dedicate to reading that first page of your KS page (not much - do NOT make the mistake of thinking they all think & behave like you!  THEY ARE NOT YOU, otherwise they'd already have one, or already know they don't need one).  you've really got to get to the point quickly and cover all the main bases in as few words as possible, as the hook.  then & only then if someone's hooked will they take the time to read more.

same goes for the video.  you've spent 2 minutes going on about *you* first, then the product, and even then the product description is worded in highly relative terms (comparison to the 1480A & 2500A) - that reassurance/low-risk stuff can be mentioned only very briefly near the end, and elaborated in the text.  I think you need to completely re-do the video, and ideally call upon the help of a more visually-oriented friend who can do some basic video production on it.  SHOW US THE PRODUCT!  show us it in your hands, on your bench, connected up to something, show us the software, show us what it can DO, show us what it can do that software-only tools can't, and do it quickly - short n sharp!  turn it around - make it almost all about the product & what it can do for the neophyte, the software person, the person who's been struggling with software-only tools.  you've come at this from *your* perspective, instead of the perspective of the people you're trying to attract - that won't work.  sell the product, not the reason why you're here (if you must do that, then leave it WAY down in the text).

i also think an "open interface or plug-in architecture that allows people to interface to it to add their own triggering/logging/decoding functionality" is critical, and that includes making the place for that community to come together to learn about how to use this product & contribute & collaborate.  you don't have to give away the keys to the kingdom by FOSSing the whole thing, just give people the environment/place & material (& API) they need to do what they need to do.  then & only then can magic happen.

but my bigger concern is your marketing and economics.  unfortunately i don't have any real advice here, just 'concerns'

your KS page points out how the 'big guys' have already slashed their prices, and slashed them again, basically in an attempt to kill you.  your KS page basically says their tactic is working.  and that sux, it's the story of ten thousand midnight engineering projects that actually achieve the almost-impossible but can't fly because of... (in your case,  a very limited sized market who need a h/w USB analyser, & only 1 person developing it).  the big guys have a shelf full of higher end products that they're still asking tens of thousands of US$ for, which is the fat they get to afford to sell their low-end stuff so cheaply to kill you & still keep their business running & developing new products.

can they slash their prices again & totally frak up your 'last ditch' economics? ...& leave your backers AND your existing/older customers with a dead end product when ITIC goes under?  my 'gut feeling' estimate is that a 1-off injection of funds, and as you say, after taxes/etc just ~$60k, isn't going to be enough to see you through, unless you do a series of KS campaigns to do incremental development, but then you face backer fatigue, and a precarious existence, and pissed off customers waiting for "that decoder I needed 6 months ago" but who didn't have the means with which to do it himself.

I think you need more help than just more customers via KS.  getting the buy-in of backers is only part of it (as well as the PR during the campaign from places like this & all the hobbyist/maker/tech-media/EE sites, & even that is a massive undertaking - once you push the go button on your KS, you need to be flogging this thing with your last breath every day in every PR channel available, & you need to have all that PR material ready before you start.  have you been to any of KS's workshops for prospective campaign runners?).

but most of all i think you need 'community' to help with the software (plug-ins), because if one thing is crystal clear now in this FOSSy world, if you let your backers/customer take part in the development (the decoder plug-ins etc), then that mushrooms - when the next Joe comes along who needs something similar, he makes some mods to something someone else has already done, he's happy & tells his friends & blogs about it, & his work is now up there for the next person to stand upon.  this FOSS philosophy is foreign to your (and my) generation's way of thinking.  embrace the power of community, give them what they need to do what they need to do, and they will embrace you & be your greatest advocates.

[John_ITIC]

I almost sprang for the 1480A, but a cheap 2nd-hand Ellisys USB Explorer 200 came up on eBay (a rare event) so I took the plunge there ...

let me start by saying I'd love to see you and your products succeed...

Thanks! Perhaps you would like to plunk down some cash on an advanced 1480B USB Protocol Analyzer...? 

If ITIC had had a unit with 256 MB trace RAM and all the other advanced features described in this KS campaign, would you still have chosen the Ellisys? The 1480B will be very good value for the money.

having said all that, I think your presentation & 'marketing' for this KS campaign is a train wreck about to happen.

i agree with MikesElectricStuff's feedback 100%

i strongly urge you to simplify the first screen-full of text, and carefully consider who your target market is, and what amount of time they're going to have to dedicate to reading that first page of your KS page (not much - do NOT make the mistake of thinking they all think & behave like you!  THEY ARE NOT YOU, otherwise they'd already have one, or already know they don't need one).  you've really got to get to the point quickly and cover all the main bases in as few words as possible, as the hook.  then & only then if someone's hooked will they take the time to read more.

I thank you for your feedback, and I can't claim to understand the minds of most people pledging on projects on Kickstarter, but I'm not sure this KS campaign can be "hyped" into success. The idea with the current KS description would be that engineers (yes, like me) would recognize that this project is vastly different from most other "amateur" projects out there and that they would identify with my situation.

Engineers would pay attention as soon as they see the words "USB Protocol Analyzer" and they would not need to be shielded from the dense information. We engineers (at least the EEs) live with dense information all day long and we don't trust hyped projects. We want the facts and the logical reasons for making a decision. We don't act on impulse.

i also think an "open interface or plug-in architecture that allows people to interface to it to add their own triggering/logging/decoding functionality" is critical, and that includes making the place for that community to come together to learn about how to use this product & contribute & collaborate.  you don't have to give away the keys to the kingdom by FOSSing the whole thing, just give people the environment/place & material (& API) they need to do what they need to do.  then & only then can magic happen.

Agreed. That can be accomplished. But I'm not sure the paying engineer would want to fiddle around with his/her own development too much. It is a professional tool, so I assume will be used on professional projects, that have deadlines. Time is money so I suspect as much in-the-box features as possible that will be included is more important than do-it-yourself plug-ins.

Having that said, a custom decoding plug-in would be useful for the non-standard decoding (like standard class decoders) since makes the unit slightly more extensible.

but most of all i think you need 'community' to help with the software (plug-ins), because if one thing is crystal clear now in this FOSSy world, if you let your backers/customer take part in the development (the decoder plug-ins etc), then that mushrooms - when the next Joe comes along who needs something similar, he makes some mods to something someone else has already done, he's happy & tells his friends & blogs about it, & his work is now up there for the next person to stand upon.  this FOSS philosophy is foreign to your (and my) generation's way of thinking.  embrace the power of community, give them what they need to do what they need to do, and they will embrace you & be your greatest advocates.

I agree. The plug-ins for decoding should be able to be community-driven and I will add it to the KS campaign description.

Regarding Open Source; we have thought about this but we can't see any Cashflow coming out of it. There is, of course, a limited amount of work that can be put into a project before it needs to pay a return. So far no one is making any money on open source except for support, consulting and advertising. Even Mr. EEVBlog himself, makes money on advertising from his videos. There has to be a financial upside somewhere.

Finally, I thank you for your feedback. Like religion, different people will kill for their own faith in what is the right thing to do. My belief is that this KS campaign would appeal to engineers that identify with our situation and therefore would want to help. Therefore, we are unlikely to make major changes to the current campaign.

If the current KS campaign flops, we may instead make another USB 3.0 Protocol analyzer campaign!

[macgyver0815]

Well - sorry but I have seen several campaigns like that flopping.

Waaay too high goal (for such a niche product at such high unit prices), not showing the product in the video, basically just talking.
Too much text (at least highlight some key facts and put the important stuff right on the top).

Don't be fooled by the (very bad) OpenViszla campaign - this was 2010 - very different times (compare the Internet in the 90ies to today), it was much easier back then
Now there are way way more campaigns on KS. Today it is much harder to get any attention at all.

Even campaigns such as HemaImager - a product that almost anyone could need (not only engineers working in a very specific niche area) - is struggling to reach its goal and they do put a lot of time and effort into it.

[techydude]

(do NOT make the mistake of thinking they all think & behave like you!  THEY ARE NOT YOU, otherwise they'd already have one, or already know they don't need one).

I can't claim to understand the minds of most people pledging on projects on Kickstarter, but I'm not sure this KS campaign can be "hyped" into success. The idea with the current KS description would be that engineers (yes, like me) would recognize that this project is vastly different from most other "amateur" projects out there and that they would identify with my situation.  Engineers would pay attention as soon as they see the words "USB Protocol Analyzer" and they would not need to be shielded from the dense information. We engineers (at least the EEs) live with dense information all day long and we don't trust hyped projects. We want the facts and the logical reasons for making a decision. We don't act on impulse.

i also think an "open interface or plug-in architecture that allows people to interface to it to add their own triggering/logging/decoding functionality" is critical...

Agreed. That can be accomplished. But I'm not sure the paying engineer would want to fiddle around with his/her own development too much. It is a professional tool, so I assume will be used on professional projects, that have deadlines. Time is money so I suspect as much in-the-box features as possible that will be included is more important than do-it-yourself plug-ins.

You're cutting yourself off from a significant part of the market - of both buyers & developers - who are NOT EEs, who have the need for the product, but don't quite know it yet: nephytes new to USB connectivity, serious makers, "hackers", EE students - people who may not know what they don't know (their need for a h/w-based USB analyser), or simply FOSS devs looking for a bit of fun with USB.  Don't forget, your campaign remains online indefinitely, which is a valuable funnel to you/your website, google pagerank & all that.

In this context, it's not unsubstantiated "hype", it's about getting the attention of people who aren't like you (& me), old-school EEs.  If you can't 'hook' someone within the first 20 seconds of reading the page, or the first 30 or so seconds of the video, you risk losing them completely, even if they are candidates for the product.

You are limiting yourself to engineers like you in your place in life & career.  Isn't the limitation of that calm, demure approach to self-marketing why you're trying to Kickstart the 1480B now?  I'm urging you to look beyond just that market.  Some of those makers/hackers/students grow up in just a few short years to be the kind of EEs you're hoping to attract.  some of them don't need to be qualified EEs.  & right now some of them have the time & willingness to help you develop the product (decoder plug-ins etc).

(as well as the PR during the campaign from places like this & all the hobbyist/maker/tech-media/EE sites, & even that is a massive undertaking - once you push the go button on your KS, you need to be flogging this thing with your last breath every day in every PR channel available, & you need to have all that PR material ready before you start.  have you been to any of KS's workshops for prospective campaign runners?).

I unfortunately don't have time to become a full-time promoter of the KS campaign. I have other professional obligations too. My idea is to test the Crowdfunding approach to see if it has any traction without a massive marketing effort.

Then you're seriously compromising the success of your campaign before it's even begun, by not aiming at the kinds of people who 'invest' in KS projects in all the various sites & media they use - a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.

I didn't say you have to dedicate every waking hour for a month or two (although that's ideal), but you can't just click Submit on the KS form, sit back, post a few "Please help me!  Please Share my KS Campaign, here's the link!" requests in places like here, and hope for the best.  There are plenty of sites/blogs/etc to advise you here on crowdfunding marketing tactics.  You can look down your nose at marketing all you like, but just remember some history of why superior products have failed / inferior products have won

As for the video, you *must* show, not just tell.  In fact it's required by KS's T&C anyway, but that's beside my point.

Finally, I thank you for your feedback. Like religion, different people will kill for their own faith in what is the right thing to do. My belief is that my KS campaign would appeal to engineers that identify with my situation and therefore would want to help. Therefore, I'm unlikely to make major changes to the current campaign.

I hope that works for you

[mikeselectricstuff]

..and you should probably have some additional "tip jar" rewards between $1 and $99
 

[Bassman59]

I almost sprang for the 1480A, but a cheap 2nd-hand Ellisys USB Explorer 200 came up on eBay (a rare event) so I took the plunge there ...

let me start by saying I'd love to see you and your products succeed...

Thanks! Perhaps you would like to plunk down some cash on an advanced 1480B USB Protocol Analyzer...? 

If ITIC had had a unit with 256 MB trace RAM and all the other advanced features described in this KS campaign, would you still have chosen the Ellisys? The 1480B will be very good value for the money.

I've had the original Ellisys Tracker 110 for ages, and for Full Speed USB it's fine. But I'm starting to work on a High Speed design, so I obviously need a new analyzer.

That analyzer needs to have class decoding; in my case I need the USB Audio Class 2.0 decoding. It seems to me that the decoding could be done in the host software. $795 is a great price for that. I'd kick in if you had the decoding.

[John_ITIC]

Thanks Guys. After having slept on this, I will revise the KS campaign outline a bit to include some initial, more easily digested information, including demo videos. We were actually initially planning to do this but figured the video would be too long.

I think that, these days, many KS campaigns flop not because the projects are bad but because there are so many project owners that simply do not deliver! High-pledge products are therefore much too risky for most people. The public therefore must, either via exceedingly fancy graphics, or via other more substantial evidence of quality, get a feeling of trust of the project owner. It's like the saying in business investments goes; don't invest in the product, invest in the people.

Therefore, i believe, to establish trust and convey experience via a rather strong focus on me is critical. Having said that, I will add in some more focus on the product.

[janekm]

Just one little note, you come across a little defensive in your responses to some of the comments on here; Keep in mind that the posters genuinely want to help you succeed in your campaign, not pick holes in it for fun (at least based on my reading).

It's not easy to market to engineers (as you know!) since we're all tight-wads who half the time will rather spend 10h writing our own protocol analyser code rather than pay another $300 for a proper tool (sad but true!), so I think the comments that encourage you to try and broaden your market are spot-on, especially when it comes to Kickstarter where the risk-averse nature of engineers kicks in even worse!

Best of luck with the campaign, looks like a great tool and I hope you make it!

[John_ITIC]

It's not easy to market to engineers (as you know!) since we're all tight-wads who half the time will rather spend 10h writing our own protocol analyser code rather than pay another $300 for a proper tool (sad but true!), so I think the comments that encourage you to try and broaden your market are spot-on, especially when it comes to Kickstarter where the risk-averse nature of engineers kicks in even worse!

I do think that a bigger problem is that people now, by default, assume that most projects on KS are bogus. Just look in the "Dodgy KS projects" area of this forum. People have become cynical. I think, what is needed, is a massive amount of "evidence" material that shows that the project is real as well as very good explanations as to why the project should be given a chance to live by the KS community.

Best of luck with the campaign, looks like a great tool and I hope you make it!

Thanks.

[John_ITIC]

Alright, I have now updated the Kickstarter campaign with some more "beginner material". We also included over an hour worth of lab demos so everyone can see what goes into these USB and PCI Express Protocol Analyzers.

we're also doing an Indiegogo campaign at the same time, hoping to capture maximum exposure that way. I'm hoping to go live this weekend or early next week.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I'm also doing an Indiegogo campaign at the same time,

Don't think that's a good idea - IGG is becoming known as a haven for scammers & amateurs, and splitting between 2 sites risks diluting interest and causing confusion