Author Topic: Project to recreate C64. And Atari, And BBC And Spectrum And Apple II....  (Read 24268 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13804
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline sleemanj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3029
  • Country: nz
  • Professional tightwad.
    • The electronics hobby components I sell.
Quote
In order to do this I'll need to raise $150,000. I will need to hire a firm to design the electronics and do so in a reasonable amount of time. I will also need to have the case designed too. In doing research on this I've discovered that each prototype that is made will have to be paid for and if you need more than one prototype the costs can add up quite a bit.

Other hidden costs that have shown up are the fees that IndieGoGo will take and what ever the U.S. Government will take in taxes. Also I'll have to pay for help to keep on top of the group of people who have contributed to the campaign so that they will get their perks in a timely and orderly manner.

Allow me to translate for him:
Quote
I have no idea what I'm doing, I just thought making a C64 copy would be a good idea when I was walking home from school, 150k is heaps of money right, so that should be enough

~~~
EEVBlog Members - get yourself 10% discount off all my electronic components for sale just use the Buy Direct links and use Coupon Code "eevblog" during checkout.  Shipping from New Zealand, international orders welcome :-)
 

Offline xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7557
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Everyone needs a hobby?  :)
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline sarm

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 15
  • Country: 00
This project made me  :palm:
 

Offline pickle9000

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2439
  • Country: ca
Jeri Ellsworth was involved with or designed a mini box that emulated the c64. Of course that was a commercial product.
 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11970
  • Country: us
I know of the Jeri Ellsworth one. She packaged it in a joystick as I recall. I think a "computer in a joystick" is a cute way to update the "computer in a keyboard" concept, especially if you are going to use it for games.

But it does seem the project is odd. If you want real hardware, why not acquire a used original machine? There must still be plenty of them about in attics and stuff. If you want to recreate one, surely emulations make much more sense these days than reconstructing the hardware?
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37925
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
LOL!
When did this campaign start? Only 18 days left and he hasn't cracked $75 yet.
Looks like everyone saw right through this pie-in-the-sky one for a change!
 

Offline ivan747

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2045
  • Country: us
Haven't people already made replicas of the processors in these computers on FPGAs? Even the legendary Commodore sound chip appears to be recreated.

Even Jeri made her own version of a Commodore. I love her projects, they are quite creative.
 

Offline xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7557
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Even Jeri made her own version of a Commodore. I love her projects, they are quite creative.

I subscribed to her You Tube channel but it went dead. The last upload was 4 months ago - Magnetic Logic - Forgotten Technology. I think the company she's working for bans her from any more videos of possible "trade secrets" or something.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline Bored@Work

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3932
  • Country: 00
Even Jeri made her own version of a Commodore. I love her projects, they are quite creative.

I subscribed to her You Tube channel but it went dead. The last upload was 4 months ago - Magnetic Logic - Forgotten Technology. I think the company she's working for bans her from any more videos of possible "trade secrets" or something.

Wasn't she fired in February and then decided to be self-employed again?
I delete PMs unread. If you have something to say, say it in public.
For all else: Profile->[Modify Profile]Buddies/Ignore List->Edit Ignore List
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37925
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
I subscribed to her You Tube channel but it went dead. The last upload was 4 months ago - Magnetic Logic - Forgotten Technology. I think the company she's working for bans her from any more videos of possible "trade secrets" or something.

No, she released video while she worked at Valve.
But she got the arse from Valve some months back now and has formed her own startup.
She hasn't released many video because she is busy, both at Valve and now freelance again.
 

Offline AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4250
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Quote
I've discovered that each prototype that is made will have to be paid for

 :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm: |O |O |O

I really feel sorry for the engineer who took that particular phone call  :-\

Offline BigBrother

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • Country: us
My first problem with this crowd funding project is that there's not one prototype being shown (probably why he didn't use KS). The second is the park brackets; the last ones go from 75$ to 5000$.

then...

 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 37925
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
My first problem with this crowd funding project is that there's not one prototype being shown (probably why he didn't use KS).

That's because the guy has absolutely no idea how to build one.
 

Offline AlfBaz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2184
  • Country: au
 

Offline nakchak

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: gb
Struggle to see the point of projects like this, especially when the guy admits to having no clue, even the register picked up on the guys lack of knowledge...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/09/retro_tech_fan_seeks_cash_to_clone_c64/
 

Offline _Sin

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 247
  • Country: gb
Note that as this is on indiegogo, and flexibly funded, he will get all the money even if the target isn't reached... so he's already quids in, as its plain that nothing is ever going to come of this that involves him having to actually spend any of it.


Programmer with a soldering iron - fear me.
 

jucole

  • Guest
meh... Its been done
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2011/04/08/commodore-64-welcome-back-old-friend/

I think that was just a PC with a commodore slant on the looks.


You can't really beat the Ellsworth C64 DTV joystick; it was the perfect form factor released at the perfect time using the perfect selling platform at the time. 
"QVC purchased the entire first production run of 250,000 units and sold 70,000 of them the first day they were offered"

Is this his utube channel?
https://www.youtube.com/user/dsbiehl/videos?view=0

btw if your spoon breaks, i've got some spare ones here! ;-)



 

Offline xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7557
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
No, she released video while she worked at Valve.
But she got the arse from Valve some months back now and has formed her own startup.
She hasn't released many video because she is busy, both at Valve and now freelance again.

OK thanks - good to know that.
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline Ottomobiehl

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/project-bread-bin

Appears to be almost completely clueless.

Hi everybody, I'm the "clueless" guy who is behind "Project Bread Bin".

I guess this thing did get publicity but not in the way that I imagined it. Due to all the negative publicity I've went ahead and canceled the fund raiser and refund any monies.

For what it's worth I did this with the intentions of finding a viable, out-of-the-box, affordable replacement for my aging C64 and to contribute something to the retro-computing community. I'd talked to other people who seemed to think this was a good idea.

I also, for what it's worth, I did do my due diligence...to the best of my abilities. What that means is I'm a very amatuer hobbyist electronic enthusiast (my first semi-successful project was building a variant of the x1541 cable) so the my knowledge and resources are limited to trying to reach out to professionals and hoping they'll talk to me. More often than not they said no or didn't respond at all. A lot of roadblocks did pop up when I was in that phase. I had hoped more people would be helpful during this process. I wish I would have known of this site then. It was a case of give up or go on the best you can. Anyway, that's not important.

It's obvious that I was either being naive or had an huge case of hubris (probably a bit of both) when I continued with the project and the stretch goals. To me it would be cool to see a resurgence of all these old 8-bit computers.

Anyway I've canceled the project and given the money back. It was not a scam. In hindsight I probably should have taken some of the resistance I was encountering during the due diligence phase as a sign and not continued on with the project. In hindsight I wish I'd never done the project.

What puzzles me though is that not one person contacted me and said, "interesting project. Seems kind of like a scam though." I wish somebody would have though because I'd probably have asked what parts seemed scammy and some input into how I could have fixed it. My email was posted on the page and there is a messaging function built in too.

I did get email though. I got encouraging email. I got email with suggestions and what they'd like to see in the computer. It was because of this feedback that I continued on with the project.

I didn't even know of the negative criticism (though I'd assumed there would be some) towards the project when I attempted to reach out to Jeri Ellsworth and get some input. Looking for any contact info I came upon her Twitter account and her tweets mocking the project and calling it a scam. I do admire Jeri and look up to her so those tweets were crushing to say the least. A little more research lead me to this site and this forum post. Reading it didn't life my spirits either.

I wasn't aware of the Register article and I have not read it yet. I'm almost afraid to now. Also, to the user that pointed out my YouTube channel. Yes it is my channel and I'm not sure what the "broken spoons" thing means. I'm assuming you don't like my channel or, perhaps, me.

Finally I just wanted to say I'm sorry about the whole affair. I'm sorry if anybody was hurt or offended. That was not my intention. I'm sorry nobody tried to contact me and show me the errors of my way. Greatly appreciated. I'm sorry I attempted the project in the first place. I didn't enjoy the accusations and ridicule that went along with doing this project. Finally, I'm sorry I didn't know about this site sooner. There are a bunch of you who seem to have a better head on their shoulder about this stuff than I do. You'd have been a valuable resource.

Thank you for your time,
Dan
 

Online tom66

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6781
  • Country: gb
  • Electronics Hobbyist & FPGA/Embedded Systems EE
I mean, you've got the Raspberry Pi available now, a $25/$35 computer, which is capable of emulating a lot of machines with a 700MHz ARM and powerful GPU. I'd expect it could do most of those no problems. Attach a keyboard (perhaps take an old C64 or AppleII to pieces  :scared:)  and give it a HDMI monitor and you're done. I don't see the point of this project at all.
 

Offline Ottomobiehl

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
I mean, you've got the Raspberry Pi available now, a $25/$35 computer, which is capable of emulating a lot of machines with a 700MHz ARM and powerful GPU. I'd expect it could do most of those no problems. Attach a keyboard (perhaps take an old C64 or AppleII to pieces  :scared:)  and give it a HDMI monitor and you're done. I don't see the point of this project at all.

Since many people (myself included) don't have the technical skill to put something like that together. It was my intent to produce something that would work for them out of the box. That was my main point of the project.

That being said I wish I would have knew more about those capabilities of the Raspberry Pi sooner. I knew about the Raspberry Pi but I didn't think to put one and one together. Tunnel vision I guess. I suppose if I'd known I would have gone that route instead.

An aside: I would have a very hard time tearing my c64 apart to use the keyboard on another project. That old machine is dear to me.
 

Offline AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4250
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Dan

The reason you've got such a roasting is very simple: you were asking for money. A *lot* of money.

As soon as you do that, you're making it clear that you're not messing about, you have a real commercially viable project and a very good chance of bringing it to market. It's your responsibility to make sure you're in that position, and you need to do your homework really, really thoroughly *before* you ask anyone to stump up their own hard-earned cash.

I'm afraid the reason you got so little help from professional engineers you spoke to, is that they're experienced enough to spot the difference between a commercially viable job that's worth investing time and effort in, and something so unlikely to ever see the light of day that it's not worth it. Bear in mind that whilst people on forums might be only too happy to give you the benefit of their time and advice for free, for a professional engineer time is money. You'll find them much more co-operative once you can show that you have a realistic commercial proposition.

What you need to do is take a step back, abandon any idea of making a commercial product for now, and start asking the right questions. Ask people what's actually involved in developing a saleable product, what the real difficulties and costs are, how long things take and what information you need to gather.

For what it's worth, I grew up with 8 bit home computers, and I like them. I have a BBC micro - but I bought it off Ebay for next to nothing, and it sits in a cupboard unused 99.9% of the time. I don't see a market for a modern copy of something I can easily buy a real example of, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong. Emphasis on "proved".

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 13804
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
I don't think anyone seriously thought it was a scam - just hopelessly unrealistic.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline Ottomobiehl

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
Dan

The reason you've got such a roasting is very simple: you were asking for money. A *lot* of money.

As soon as you do that, you're making it clear that you're not messing about, you have a real commercially viable project and a very good chance of bringing it to market. It's your responsibility to make sure you're in that position, and you need to do your homework really, really thoroughly *before* you ask anyone to stump up their own hard-earned cash.

I'm afraid the reason you got so little help from professional engineers you spoke to, is that they're experienced enough to spot the difference between a commercially viable job that's worth investing time and effort in, and something so unlikely to ever see the light of day that it's not worth it. Bear in mind that whilst people on forums might be only too happy to give you the benefit of their time and advice for free, for a professional engineer time is money. You'll find them much more co-operative once you can show that you have a realistic commercial proposition.

What you need to do is take a step back, abandon any idea of making a commercial product for now, and start asking the right questions. Ask people what's actually involved in developing a saleable product, what the real difficulties and costs are, how long things take and what information you need to gather.

For what it's worth, I grew up with 8 bit home computers, and I like them. I have a BBC micro - but I bought it off Ebay for next to nothing, and it sits in a cupboard unused 99.9% of the time. I don't see a market for a modern copy of something I can easily buy a real example of, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong. Emphasis on "proved".

Fair enough and understandable. The reality is that'll it'll probably be a long time, if ever, before I try something like this again.

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff
I don't think anyone seriously thought it was a scam - just hopelessly unrealistic.

QFT.

I have been known to be overly optimistic about stuff before. I think in this case I was misguided by it and it bit me in the arse.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf