Author Topic: Projection watch on Indiegogo  (Read 42751 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #50 on: April 30, 2015, 01:05:22 pm »
Looking like it's several times the distance from where the watch would be, and almost perpendicular to the hand?  :-//

Yup, that was my thought.
Also, I just read that the optics are still worked on and are not finished, and they mention the watch is only a body ptototype, so this can't possibly be coming from the watch. So they have likely just used some off-the-shelf projector in front of the hand, they call it the "development kit".
So yeah, they have ordered a projector kit and taken some photos and a video *slow*:clap:
 

Online Rasz

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #51 on: April 30, 2015, 04:22:54 pm »
One obvious problem with the schematic is that they're sharing a single Chip Select signal across 3 SPI slave devices.
Actually, upon looking closer the external flash and BLE module share a common SPI chip select - which won't work
The DLP display controller has both its clock and chip select inputs connected to the master SPI clock.  Again, this just won't work.

actually clock and chip select of dlp chip are shorted :)
and look at all those bypass caps
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Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #52 on: April 30, 2015, 04:35:32 pm »
and look at all those bypass caps

bypass caps are for wussies


Anybody else notice that they called their positive supply "Vss" on the majority of their ICs?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #53 on: April 30, 2015, 07:08:58 pm »
What's up with the thermistor to ground on the GND pin of the PAD2005 chip?

These guys are everything that is wrong with crowdfunding.

A creator who doesn't know anything and thinks "electronics" is easy and with enough time/money - anything is possible.  And backers who are too (sorry, it's true) f-kin stupid to do even cursory research on a product before saying "TAKE MY MONEY!" and then going apeshit when their dopey instant gratification doesn't work out and they want their $$ back.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Dongulus

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #54 on: April 30, 2015, 07:12:54 pm »
One obvious problem with the schematic is that they're sharing a single Chip Select signal across 3 SPI slave devices.
Actually, upon looking closer the external flash and BLE module share a common SPI chip select - which won't work
The DLP display controller has both its clock and chip select inputs connected to the master SPI clock.  Again, this just won't work.

So they haven't even done basic validation of the schematic, let alone prototyped it or started on the firmware.
After 7+ months of funding!

Not to mention that two of the chips being interfaced through SPI run on 1.8V while the MSP430 runs on 3.3V and no level-shifters are used in between.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 07:25:07 pm by Dongulus »
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2015, 06:24:09 am »
Anybody else notice that they called their positive supply "Vss" on the majority of their ICs?
Sorry for the off-topic question, but does anybody know what's the origin of the typical names for supply pins, like Vss, Vcc, Vdd, etc. ?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2015, 06:36:38 am »
Anybody else notice that they called their positive supply "Vss" on the majority of their ICs?
Sorry for the off-topic question, but does anybody know what's the origin of the typical names for supply pins, like Vss, Vcc, Vdd, etc. ?


http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/17382/what-is-the-difference-between-vcc-vdd-vee-vss
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Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #57 on: May 02, 2015, 01:33:04 pm »
How can a campaign that lies about its team members and location not be a scam? We are not talking about lack of transparency or a communication error here, this is deliberate fraud.

I expect Indiegogo are ignoring the obvious for legal reasons, but it will be hard to claim "plausible deniability" when the project creators are plainly dishonest.
Bob
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Offline valley_nomad

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2015, 01:49:33 am »

I believe that IGG has been set up in such way that it can facilitate these kinds of scams without legal remification
 

Offline janekm

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2015, 09:30:38 am »
After many months, Ritot have just posted a preliminary schematic!



I personally don't think a low end MSP430 is really ideal for driving a WVGA DLP/DMD projector, although with external flash they could have a bunch of images and fonts to work from.  But it will be very limited in terms of graphics & animation that most people would expect in a modern product.  And not sure it could handle the keystone correction that is going to be needed.  I guess they could do all image generation/correction in the smartphone, but then the watch is rather dependant on the phone being available.

One obvious problem with the schematic is that they're sharing a single Chip Select signal across 3 SPI slave devices.
Also no power control or battery charging, but that is not hard to add compared to the optics challenge they've yet to overcome.


This is kind of interesting... I reckon DPP3435 is supposed to be DLPC3435 (there is similarity to the system design example for that). I was wondering how they'd get the data into that as it's intended to use a parallel interface... But it turns out that chip supports reading a splash screen from an external SPI flash, so I suspect they're planning to do that, which is kind of clever! It also supports 1D keystone correction so that's (sort of) taken care of.

There is quite a disparity between the hilarity of the schematic and the sensible-ness of that choice of chips, so I hazard a guess that some sales engineer at TI was convinced to talk to them after they got their million+ funding, and told them something like "well I suppose you could use the DLPC3435 with the DLPA2000, and just write the image as a splash screen to the flash before power-on sequencing", and then some poor guy tried to figure out how to turn that into a schematic ;)

It's a bit odd that they can't spell the chip names though?
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2015, 09:40:52 am »

I believe that IGG has been set up in such way that it can facilitate these kinds of scams without legal remification

There is no "set up" that bypasses common law. If an organisation knowingly participates in a fraud, they are legally liable, regardless of whether they have a Terms and Conditions that says "we are not liable for fraudulent campaigns".

Whether their "set up" successfully evades investment and consumer regulations is unknown, since it has never been tested in court.
Bob
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Offline Kean

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2015, 09:56:08 am »
It also supports 1D keystone correction so that's (sort of) taken care of.
That's neat, but only helps address one of the many problems they've got.

I hazard a guess that some sales engineer at TI was convinced to talk to them after they got their million+ funding
Oh, I'm pretty sure that is what happened - I can't imagine why they'd choose an MSP430 otherwise.  Dont' get me wrong, they're great chips, and I've used them in a number of designs, but primarily for their unique features which I'm not sure are needed here.  A Cortex M seems like a much better choice.

It's a bit odd that they can't spell the chip names though?
The green boxes are sheet symbols in Altium rather than actual components, so I guess it was done by someone with real Altium experience.  The schematic seems to be awfully rushed, leading to various errors.  There could be more detail on those other sheets, or possibly not...
 

Offline bktemp

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2015, 12:19:52 pm »
Does the DMD controller generate the displayed image? From the datasheet it looks like it only can display a splash screen from flash, but needs a external video source for normal operation.
It seems to be missing in their schematic.
 

Offline janekm

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2015, 03:03:37 am »
Does the DMD controller generate the displayed image? From the datasheet it looks like it only can display a splash screen from flash, but needs a external video source for normal operation.
It seems to be missing in their schematic.

I think they're planning to write the image to flash as a splash screen, then boot up the DMD to display it, which could be sufficient for the kind of notifications a thing like this should display... (for sure that MSP430 isn't going to animate anything). Kind of clever.
 

Offline valley_nomad

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #64 on: May 06, 2015, 09:11:05 pm »

I believe that IGG has been set up in such way that it can facilitate these kinds of scams without legal remification

There is no "set up" that bypasses common law. If an organisation knowingly participates in a fraud, they are legally liable, regardless of whether they have a Terms and Conditions that says "we are not liable for fraudulent campaigns".

Whether their "set up" successfully evades investment and consumer regulations is unknown, since it has never been tested in court.

They may not knowingly participate in a fraud. But they certainly know that, compared with other popular platforms such as KS,  the way IGG works now can be easily used for a fraud. For example, IGG allows so called flexible funding mode in which the creator can always take the money, regardless of the success of campaign. Unlike KS, IGG doesn't require a working prototype to start the campaign. IGG also allows the creators to delete any comments they don't like on the campaign's comment page...
 

Offline Kean

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2015, 11:36:49 am »
In the last day a lot of quotes from this forum topic have been getting posted into the Ritot campaign comments.

I think they're planning to write the image to flash as a splash screen, then boot up the DMD to display it, which could be sufficient for the kind of notifications a thing like this should display... (for sure that MSP430 isn't going to animate anything). Kind of clever.
Some guy called Bob in the comments is trying to use this quote as an engineer praisng Ritot's design ingenuity!   |O

If anything, it is a clever hack that we suspect a Texas Instruments FAE (Field Applications Engineer for any IGG visitors) came up with to keep the electronics BOM cost low.
This one semi-positive comment hardly means Ritot can deliver a working product, let alone one people will be happy with.

As engineers we know with certainty that this is going to be a total flop - much like the SmartyRing, Mu Optics, and Soap "rablet" campaigns.
They have over promised and will under deliver, assuming they deliver anything at all.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2015, 11:44:18 am »
Unlike KS, IGG doesn't require a working prototype to start the campaign. IGG also allows the creators to delete any comments they don't like on the campaign's comment page...

And don't they expire after a period of time too and are not displayed any more?
The comment system on IGG is nothing short of a joke, and does nothing but aid potential fraud and hinder public accountability.
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2015, 07:23:57 pm »
Some guy called Bob in the comments is trying to use this quote as an engineer praisng Ritot's design ingenuity!   |O

The guy called Bob... interesting allegations that either he is a paid shill or sock puppet working for Smart Crowdfunding - some of their clients shown here http://smartcrowdfunding.us/content/about-us. Hey, guess what Ritot and the "Coolest clock" have in common?

For all I know, Smart Crowdfunding are totally legit and would never resort to fraudulent tactics such as impersonating unaffiliated backers. Their claim to good reputation as members of "Crowdfunding Professional Association" is only slightly undermined by the picture of a pile of cash directly below it.

At best they are helping campaigns succeed regardless of the merits of the project, which must introduce a risk for unsuspecting backers.
Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 

Offline cloudscapes

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #68 on: May 08, 2015, 01:38:52 am »

« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 09:23:21 pm by cloudscapes »
 

Offline LordNobady

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2015, 06:53:16 am »
Ritot would have you believe that thy can bend light mid-air .

Sorry, physics don't work that way. 

sorry but you can change light mid air. just heat it up and it will form a lens. I have to admit that is not practical.
 

Offline rob77

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #70 on: May 08, 2015, 07:10:17 am »
and as someone mentioned earlier in this thread... the picture is upside-down... it's the person's left hand with the bracelet => the picture is upside down.


 

Offline cloudscapes

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #71 on: May 08, 2015, 11:26:31 am »
sorry but you can change light mid air. just heat it up and it will form a lens. I have to admit that is not practical.

Maybe they're engineered a micro black hole in their invention, that would be another way to do it.  >:D
 

Offline LordNobady

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #72 on: May 08, 2015, 01:41:08 pm »
sorry but you can change light mid air. just heat it up and it will form a lens. I have to admit that is not practical.

Maybe they're engineered a micro black hole in their invention, that would be another way to do it.  >:D

MMM if you can control its power it might work. only how to create one, rumors are that the LHC can create them. but that is a little bit to big to attach to your wrist. So it needs to be miniaturized a bit. 
then again if the can make them that small and for a good price. why only make a watch out of it? I think that some field experts will pay more for a slightly larger one that has an good particle detector.
 :-DD
 

Offline rickey1990

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #73 on: May 08, 2015, 10:10:58 pm »
$199 :0, Well if thats the case, who would like to buy the key chain add on http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-High-Quality-LED-Laser-Light-Show-Ceiling-Time-Projector-Keychain/1541545409.html ,
Quote
Inspired by future technologies we wanted to create a completely different, original timepiece.
We have also included a clip, so that you clip to the front your belt, so that the ladies always know what time it is ;). $1,000,000
 

Offline codeboy2k

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Re: Projection watch on Indiegogo
« Reply #74 on: May 09, 2015, 07:55:26 pm »
To wash their hands of any potential fraud, IGG would have to stay out of every transaction completely.  This would put them in the realm of a Common Carrier (US / Canada laws, probably many other countries are similar).  If they ever were named in a lawsuit, they would quickly get them selves removed as a defendant by arguing that they only facilitate the communications between two parties, the campaigner and the funder.  They allow them to "connect" in text, and communicate with each other, and they do not monitor, regulate or censor those communications.   They are going to argue they are immune, like the phone company.

A person can commit fraud over the phone, with multiple victims.  The phone company is a facilitator of that fraudulent act. Yet the phone company is always immune from prosecution for fraud.  I think IGG will always stay out of the loop. Once they intervene, if only one time, then they are open to multiple lawsuits. Actually, in my opinion, and I am not a lawyer, I think kickstarter is more liable for campaigns on its site, than IGG is right now.

(I don't condone fraud, nor the projection watch here which seems rather implausible to me)

« Last Edit: May 09, 2015, 08:05:02 pm by codeboy2k »
 


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