Author Topic: Raspberry Pi Zero  (Read 9212 times)

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Offline brucehoult

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Raspberry Pi Zero
« on: February 07, 2017, 02:48:54 pm »
OK, it\s not crowd-funded, but after fifteen months it must surely go down as vapourware.

I've never seen a place where it wasn't at least one of:

1) out of stock

2) $30+, instead of the advertised $5

3) limit of one per customer (plus beaucoup shipping) if it was $5
 

Offline Kean

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 08:47:03 pm »
Nope, definitely not vapourware - I have some*.  Just very poor supply for the demand.  :-//

There have been a few places that did actually sell them for US$5 - in fact you can buy (one) right now at Adafruit
https://www.adafruit.com/product/2885

Clearly it works as a loss leader, and shipping will add significantly to cost when you can't bulk buy or combine with other purchase to spread shipping cost across multiple units.  Not sure if you can add one to each order with Adafruit, or they limit you to one per account.

* Admittedly to buy mine I had to stump up AU$30 each as they were bundled with (somewhat useful) accessories.
 

Online CJay

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 09:24:00 pm »
Got two of em here, one free from a magazine and the other for £4 plus P&P. Definitely not vapourware but they are often limited to one per customer.

M0UAW
 

Offline elecman14

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2017, 10:25:24 pm »
This site is super handy when looking for stock http://whereismypizero.com/. I have one sitting on my desk waiting for me to have time for the project I have in mind for it. So at least one exists  :-//. Got it from adafruit. They will email you when they get a product back in stock.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 10:34:47 pm »
If they were a proper $5 product, not a vapour $5 product them I would instantly buy 10 of them.

I just went to the stores listed as the distributors on https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/pi-zero/

thepihut will only sell one and don't ship to Russia anyway.
microcenter won't allow you to create an account with a non-US address
canakit will only sell one and want $49.95 shipping.
adafruit will only sell one, and don't ship to Russia (and minimum $14.90 to NZ, where I aren't right now)
pimoroni will only sell one and don't ship to Russia anyway.

Russian site electromicro.ru appears to let me order as many as I want (who knows if that's real...) -- but at 2000 rubles ($33.60) each! Might as well get a Pi3 for a bit more, or various others for less e.g. $23 for Orange Pi One or NanoPi NEO 512 MB, $20 for NanoPi NEO 256 MB (40mm x 40mm! Quad core A7 @ 1.2 GHz!)
 

Offline mmagin

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 11:22:35 pm »
Months after introduction and still the two places that have stock are still limit one per customer?  Compared to the original Pi, this seems like a flop.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2017, 12:07:09 am »
A flop or a huge success? Can't really say without seeing the numbers. I'd be more inclined to believe it was a flop if everyone had them in stock and they weren't moving. I recall the original Pi being difficult to get for quite a while after it came out.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2017, 12:14:14 am »
As a complete contrast:

https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive1/

They put the campaign up in the last days of November, promising to ship the first "Founder's Edition" batch of 250 on December 20. I ordered one on December 4th, and it was first scanned by USPS on December 23. Close enough.

The campaign only had a $1 goal, so really they're only using Crowd Supply for logistics on a product they'd already funded development of. Fine by me.

You don't really need a 320 MHz CPU in an arduino with only 16 KB of RAM, but I guess they just couldn't make it any slower even though it's fabbed in 180 nm. Can't wait for SiFive's full on 28 nm 64 bit chips with MMU and multi cores running Linux in about a year. They're expecting 1.6 GHz. That should give the A53 ARM boards a good fright.

I've run a test of a simple program on the HiFive1 and various other things:

Code: [Select]
// Program to count primes. Not great code, but I wanted something that
// could run in 16 KB and took time, and not optimizable (and with
// unpredictable branches). Size is for just countPrimes() with gcc -O1
//
// SZ = 1000 -> 3713160 primes, all primes up to 7919^2 = 62710561
//   2.872 sec i7 6700K @ 4200 MHz           240 bytes  12.1 billion clocks
//   4.868 sec i7 3770  @ 3900 MHz           240 bytes  19.0 billion clocks
//   9.740 sec i7 6700K qemu-riscv           182 bytes  40.9 billion clocks
//  11.445 sec Odroid XU4 A15 @ 2 GHz        204 bytes  22.9 billion clocks
//  19.500 sec Odroid C2 A53 @ 1.536 GHz A64 276 bytes  30.0 billion clocks
//  23.940 sec Odroid C2 A53 @ 1.536 GHz T32 204 bytes  36.8 billion clocks
//  24.636 sec i7 6700K qemu-arm             204 bytes 103.5 billion clocks
//  25.060 sec i7 6700K qemu-aarch64         276 bytes 105.3 billion clocks
//  30.420 sec Pi3 Cortex A53 @ 1.2 GHz      204 bytes  36.5 billion clocks
//  47.910 sec Pi2 Cortex A7 @ 900 MHz       204 bytes  42.1 billion clocks
// 112.163 sec HiFive1 RISCV @ 320 MHz       182 bytes  35.9 billion clocks
// 140.241 sec HiFive1 RISCV @ 256 MHz       182 bytes  35.9 billion clocks

#include <stdio.h>

#define SZ 1000
int primes[SZ], sieve[SZ];
int nSieve = 0;

int countPrimes(){
  primes[0] = 2; sieve[0] = 4; ++nSieve;
  int nPrimes = 1, trial = 3, sqr=2;
  while (1){
    while (sqr*sqr <= trial) ++sqr;
    --sqr;
    for (int i=0; i<nSieve; ++i){
      if (primes[i] > sqr) goto found_prime;
      while (sieve[i] < trial) sieve[i] += primes[i];
      if (sieve[i] == trial) goto try_next;
    }
    break;
  found_prime:
    if (nSieve < SZ){
      //printf("Saving %d: %d\n", nSieve+1, trial);
      primes[nSieve] = trial;
      sieve[nSieve] = trial*trial;
      ++nSieve;
    }
    ++nPrimes;
  try_next:
    ++trial;
  }
  return nPrimes;
}

int main(){
  int res = countPrimes();
  printf("%d primes found\n", res);
  return 0;
}
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2017, 12:18:50 am »
A flop or a huge success? Can't really say without seeing the numbers. I'd be more inclined to believe it was a flop if everyone had them in stock and they weren't moving. I recall the original Pi being difficult to get for quite a while after it came out.

It's 15 months already. Announced in November 2015. I think it would be a huge *sales* success if they made enough of them. If they can't get manufacturing sorted out after fifteen months then it's because they don't want to. Probably losing money on every one sold.
 

Offline julianhigginson

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2017, 10:05:56 am »
yeah it definitely looks like the pi zero isn't being pushed commercially, and I also suspect the reason is it costs more to make than it sells for.

...but it was an awesome bit of publicity for a while there!
 

Online CJay

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2017, 11:08:23 am »
I guess it'd be worth asking over on the foundation website, they've been reasonably open about problems in the past.
M0UAW
 

Offline hwj-d

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2017, 11:33:42 am »
Quote
... and don't ship to Russia anyway.
Maybe that have to do with this STUPID embargo to Russian Federation?
Really don't know why they do that   :-//
The german goverment has fired his own nation and all his citizens
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 12:44:15 pm »
Quote
... and don't ship to Russia anyway.
Maybe that have to do with this STUPID embargo to Russian Federation?
Really don't know why they do that   :-//

I don't want to get too much into politics :-)

I think it's important to distinguish between the Russian people and the Russian government. The Russian government for sure is doing some things that should be unacceptable in the modern world, and should be punished for it. I'm all for the various Magnitsky acts in different countries, and other measures. However, the bulk of the Russian people are innocent and furthermore just want to live a peaceful life in a normal country with normal relations with the rest of the world. Sanctions preventing sales of certain things to Russia hurt the people, not the government. In fact if anything the shared hardship benefits the government. To its credit, NZ has never joined these sanctions, though Aussie has.

I'm a Kiwi working in the Moscow R&D centre of a major electronics company. There are 300 Russians and me, the only non-Russian speaker. I'm just a grunt programmer (albeit a senior one), not any kind of manager or boss. My colleagues are great. They all speak English, all documents and meetings are in English (and were long before I came here). They are not noticeably different from colleagues I've had in tech companies NZ or California -- except for some reason they are unfamiliar with Dilbert. Many of them can recite Monty Python skits, HHGttG etc. But not Dilbert. Weird. They would get on just fine in western companies and society -- and in fact one of the biggest problems is that grads with  2- 3 years experience disappear to jobs in Cambridge (UK) or California at a frightening rate. Well, good on 'em.
 

Offline hwj-d

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2017, 04:27:10 pm »
Quote
... and don't ship to Russia anyway.
Maybe that have to do with this STUPID embargo to Russian Federation?
Really don't know why they do that   :-//

I don't want to get too much into politics :-)
Agree, this really can kill every ontopic.
But interesting to hear what you say.  :-+
Additional onething only i want to tell.
[OT]
Most working and leading people don't understand this big game of international politics and especially this kind of macroökonomics they should do in her own interest. Military repression and ökonomical austerity never doesn't work, at all. That should learn the whole western hemisphere. That's the big problem specialy here in Europe too.
[/OT]
Ok, thats me :phew: smiling again, and back to  :-DMM
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 04:45:32 pm by hwj-d »
The german goverment has fired his own nation and all his citizens
 

Offline f4eru

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2017, 09:09:24 pm »
Yep. The Zero is a badly done publicity stunt. They produce it at a loss, the retailers make zero marge on it. (most retailers didn't even want to list it)

Why didn't they limit their publicity stunt to a few thousands, and then put a realistic price on it ??? |O |O |O
Really, it could be usefull, and nobody would make a loss at double the price........

Perhaps a good and sane alternative is the C.H.I.P. ?

I would classify the raspberry zero as a quasi vaporware.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 09:11:14 pm by f4eru »
 
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Offline Rasz

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 01:18:17 pm »
Why didn't they limit their publicity stunt to a few thousands


they did, they were making something like 2K a week :D
Zero is meant to get people in the door, look at the "out of stock" sign and purchase "founders edition PEE bundle" at low low price of $99, or 'essentials cable/case bundle' at $39.99
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Offline Ian.M

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 01:52:25 pm »
Hopefully the new PI Zero W's $10 pricepoint isn't a loss-leader. If they are getting the Cypress CYW43438 wireless chip cheap enough they may have improved their margin.
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 02:02:00 pm »
Hopefully the new PI Zero W's $10 pricepoint isn't a loss-leader. If they are getting the Cypress CYW43438 wireless chip cheap enough they may have improved their margin.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe they now have positive margin on them.

According to the intro video they'd already make 80000 as at Feb 20, and are producing the W at the rate of 25000 a week. That's much better than the 2000 quoted above for the original Zero.

I'd have happily paid $7 or $8 or even $10 for the original Zero if it meant I could actually order 10 or 20 of them in one go and get them sent to the country I live in at the moment.
 

Online NANDBlog

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 02:06:28 pm »
Hopefully the new PI Zero W's $10 pricepoint isn't a loss-leader. If they are getting the Cypress CYW43438 wireless chip cheap enough they may have improved their margin.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe they now have positive margin on them.

According to the intro video they'd already make 80000 as at Feb 20, and are producing the W at the rate of 25000 a week. That's much better than the 2000 quoted above for the original Zero.

I'd have happily paid $7 or $8 or even $10 for the original Zero if it meant I could actually order 10 or 20 of them in one go and get them sent to the country I live in at the moment.
So far you can only order the Pi Zero W one by one. So they need to crank up the numbers.
What I did was: Order a zero + a zero w yesterday. Today it is out of stock.
 

Offline Holmes34

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2017, 04:57:00 pm »
How can something be vaporware when it literally shipped thousands and thousands in its first month? It's only vaporware if it never materialises.
 
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Online NANDBlog

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2017, 05:20:26 pm »
How can something be vaporware when it literally shipped thousands and thousands in its first month? It's only vaporware if it never materialises.
Only 1 per customer, that's how.
 

Offline 3db

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2017, 05:44:54 pm »
Perhaps you should remember that the Raspberry PI foundation is a charity.
It's prime directive is education.
I've seen distributors selling this board as a complete kit and you can buy it in multiples for the education market.
To call it vapourware is bullshit.

3DB
 

Offline brucehoult

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2017, 10:44:54 pm »
Perhaps you should remember that the Raspberry PI foundation is a charity.
It's prime directive is education.
I've seen distributors selling this board as a complete kit and you can buy it in multiples for the education market.
To call it vapourware is bullshit.

To call it a $5 PC and then not let you buy 10 or 100 of them for $5 each is bullshit.

I can go to element14.com and order literally 1000+ Pi 2s or Pi 3s for same day shipping at $35 each. In fact they give discounts for 10+.

That's a non-vapour product.

There must be some price between $5 and $35 at which it's worthwhile manufacturing enough Pi Zeros to meet demand. Maybe it's $10. Maybe it's $15. I don't know. Bu they should figure it out and make lots of them and stop this wanking about it being a $5 computer. It's not.

Maybe that price is $10, and they can even throw in an extra WIFI/BT chip. Let's hope so.
 

Offline 3db

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2017, 04:24:24 am »
@brucehoult

GO talk to Element14 then.
If they want to make that available they can !!
I'll leave you to research why this is the case.
It's valid to call the $5 price bullshit.
The vapourware comment is my opinion bollocks.
The product exists so it CAN'T be vapourware.

3DB
 
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Online Bud

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Re: Raspberry Pi Zero
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2017, 04:59:51 am »
Well if Raspberry PI foundation is a charity, they have no commercial interest in sustainable manufacturing of the product. They wake up one morning and decide they better open a bakery. So the product will vaporize. How's this is not vapourware.
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