Author Topic: smARtDUINO - Real project with deceptive info  (Read 18406 times)

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Offline quantumvolt

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Yeah but only if the mother board uses an MC68000 in a 40 pin cerdip package with a zif socket :)

OK for me. We place something like the left hand side of this board in the mid back side of the motherboard and a socket for a separate bus-to-solder breadboard with a solderless breadboard on top placed on the front edge. Also imo a board including display, keypad, switches, leds etc should be connected to the front side.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 01:57:15 pm by quantumvolt »
 

Offline MacAttak

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It has been discussed here in a different thread (though not in a few months): https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/smartduino-real-project-with-deceptive-info/

*Some* of the parts can be obtained now from their web store at http://smartmaker.com/. The "Starter Kit" and "Tinkerer Kit" (and any individual component of those) are available. Everything else is restricted from being sold on the web store until production is complete and the kickstarter backers have been shipped their items first (the Starter and Tinkerer kits already shipped to backers). Current production status: http://smartmaker.szpeja.pl/

But anyways, there is no need to re-invent the concept. You can get details on the connector pinout and Eagle footprints from their website. The DF-9 connectors are pretty decent and use minimal board space - much better than crappy 0.1" headers used on standard Arduino boards. Also, the design accomodates two pinout bus widths - the "basic" bus with 20 GPIO plus supply, SPI, I2C, and serial lines and a "full" bus that adds 54 more GPIO signals via additional connectors.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 02:49:41 pm by MacAttak »
 

Offline quantumvolt

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Thank you. Yes I have seen the layout of the two buses - I think I have found more or less all there is about the product on the web - including the producers family vs. business priorities.

The shop you link to seems to be totally dead. Could you please refer to ANY yellow board for sale AND in stock. The production status link shows why I think ti is better to go the DIY way: The man has taken big big dollars and almost a year after there is not a single forum post / video / blog anywhere showing any substantial proof that the boards have materialized for real.

Judging by the mans videos and forum / blog posts I also do not think I would ever reflect on buying anything from him. So I am waiting for the bus board to be for sale at serious suppliers. I guess I will have to wait a while ...

Never mind, if nobody here is interested - and the yellow boards cannot be bought from other suppliers - I'll just get a big Vero board and paint it with a rainbow. It doesn't take a PhD to connect 80 copper traces to some connectors ...
 

Offline MacAttak

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Like I said - many of the items are actually in stock, but the company owner is not allowing them to be sold until kickstarter backer orders have been shipped out.

Direct links to the two kits that can be purchased:
http://smartmaker.com/index.php/smartmade/open-system/kits/open-system-starter-kit.html
http://smartmaker.com/index.php/smartmade/open-system/kits/open-system-tinkerer-kit.html

You can find each of the subitems from those kits listed individually elsewhere on the web store (and they should all be in-stock).

People have reported buying these kits and receiving them. There were a couple of short reviews out there - but I cannot seem to find them right now. I thought they were uploaded to youtube but I cannot find them.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Meant to add this - but I don't blame you for being hesitant to put down any cash on anything from there. There has been no shortage of drama, and the customer service has left quite a bit to be desired. Which is totally odd because there is a very popular IGG campaign for "$9 Arduino Clones" that is running amazingly smoothly and is shipping early - and that campaign was run by exactly the same people.
 

Offline quantumvolt

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Thanks again. Well hidden. When in the main menu http://smartmaker.com/index.php/ both the 'smartmade' and the 'platforms/arduino' choices leads nowhere - so I guessed there were nothing at all.

One might in best case say that the site is very poorly maintained, but I will follow it. As soon as I find empirical evidence that a few people have bought it post-kickstarter, I will put in an order. No big deal - I am willing to gamble with USD 29 to get some yellow boards to my collection of blue, green, red, black, white ... (compulsive brick-board collector  :-DD)
 

Offline quantumvolt

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Well ... I have spent a few hours rereading the saga. And I found this:

http://kicksucker.tumblr.com/post/57710158633/smartmaker-101-readers-digest-version


Amazing story. Being a European living in Thailand and intimately knowing life in Asia, I would highly recommend the smARtDUINO guy developing eyes in the neck. Will be fun to see what happens with the (yet not tangible) 9$ Arduino clone  >:D

I guess I will have to go the Vero&Paint way for a prototype and then make 10 boards for myself via a Chinese fleabay PCB sweatshop ...
 

Offline MacAttak

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Keep in mind that the author of that tumblr is an extremely dissatisfied kickstarter backer who is now on something of a crusade to tell his perspective to anyone who will listen.

The whole situation really sucks because the idea itself was great, and the price was reasonable. It's been the execution and delivery that have sucked.

Regarding the $9 Arduino project, backers received notices this morning that shipments were starting today on a FCFS basis (after confirming shipping address). Not really much left to go wrong on that one, unless they come out and say "haha no we were just kidding! we didn't really make any boards!"
 

Offline kicksucker2013

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2013, 06:11:48 am »
Keep in mind that the author of that tumblr is an extremely dissatisfied kickstarter backer who is now on something of a crusade to tell his perspective to anyone who will listen.

The whole situation really sucks because the idea itself was great, and the price was reasonable. It's been the execution and delivery that have sucked.

Regarding the $9 Arduino project, backers received notices this morning that shipments were starting today on a FCFS basis (after confirming shipping address). Not really much left to go wrong on that one, unless they come out and say "haha no we were just kidding! we didn't really make any boards!"

Lol, sure Big Mac, you can minimize what has transpired - I am completely intolerant of the barrage of lies, misdirects and mountain of other b.s. Dimitri Albino and Harold Timmis have spewed over the past year - Campaigns run late, I get that... my Kickstarter profile clearly demonstrates I understand legitimate delays and issues - It also demonstrates that my issues have nothing to do with the delay and everything to do with integrity and transparency.

Not on a crusade either, I am however very intrigued and disturbed by the fact that a guy with no history of contributing anything to open source; blatently lied about his background; openly disrespected the founder of Arduino and then took his design and cloned it; has a documented history going back to 2004 of misleading, not delivering and representing Chinese knockoff's of questionable quality is making a complete mockery of everything OSHW and the open source community is based on and laughing all the way to the bank.

I imagine the $9 Arduino project was able to be delivered quickly as Massimo and his team did all the work - The new Arduino book is a compilation of open source documents developed by a guy over years who has passion in what he does; Smartmaker, Dimitri and Harold are simply parasites leeching off of the work people have done.  Neither of them have contributed anything original, rebranding someone else's work and profiting from it hardly qualifies as a contribution.

The issue at hand has far greater ramifications than any one project or anyone person.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2013, 03:35:41 pm »
Hello Sixto, nice to see that you've joined us.

Yes, as wilfred brings up - please share any actual evidence that isn't already widely known. Opinions will not go very far here - no matter how strongly you believe them, only fact.

As far as "minimizing" goes, I would dispute that. I simply try to call things as I see them, without predisposition. I've changed my mind many times regarding many crowdfunded campaigns - but always only when new and reliable evidence is presented. You haven't met that bar yet. But I do encourage you to make your case as long as it isn't just a rehash of the same arguments or a back-link to your tumblr site.

Also, as you can probably see here, this forum provides a great place to get some honest and sound discussion about the technical merits and delivery risks of new funding campaigns before they close. If you encounter a new one that interests you, but you have concerns about whether it can really be pulled off, then there is probably already a thread here talking about it (or should be).
 

Offline kicksucker2013

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2013, 09:11:41 pm »
@wilfred If you check out the posts I have written, all links to supporting documentation are provided.  If you have any specifics you would like, jist let me know and I will gladly provide the links.

It is really pretty black and white,  Kickstarter does not allow editing of comments unlike Indiegogo.  Dimitri's lies are clearly documented by his own hand - My opinions are typically accompanied by a copy and paste of his words and a hyperlink to the source.

@Bigmac does it make you feel superior somehow it call me by my given name vs. my screen name?  I think it is cute you pay attention, and somehow doubt macattack is your given name...  So how about we drop the posturing and focus on the facts.  I have been reading your comments for a while now and habe yet to find anything except your opinions, if you have facts that prove mine inaccurate please post them.  I have no issues correcting and acknowledging - To date, there have been no verifiable inaccuracies provided in my cited facts.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2013, 12:43:03 am »
For every crowdfunding scammer there will be people defending the scammer. MacAttack has defended that particular scammer right from the beginning. Makes you wounder what his relation with the scammer is, despite his $300 "investment".
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Offline MacAttak

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2013, 01:59:35 am »
That's quite enough Bored@Work. There is no reason to be rude or insulting, and I'm very surprised that you would stoop so low to make such an accusation particularly when you seem to have none of the background of this. Were you a backer on this project? If not, then there are 978 comments and 71 updates there (plus all the comments on those updates) which you should read up on before playing judge and jury.

Don't confuse me with the person(s) running that campaign. I have nothing to do with them, nor have I ever met them, been offered a bribe, or whatever else you might throw out there. Wonder no longer though - here is the entry from my KS backer history page. Not that I really need to prove anything.



Oh but that's not $300! No, it isn't. I also added more to my order after the close of the project, as many others were suckered into doing. $31 more in fact.



I won't bother explaining why it says "canceled" next to the $31 charge or why the other one shows $300 instead of $269.



@Sixto: No, it doesn't. But apparently it makes you feel superior to use neither my given name nor my screen name, but instead to create one with intent to ridicule.

My reply to you was exceptionally polite and mature. I would hope that you take a cue from that when you make your third post to this forum. Because your first two certainly were not either.

If you would like to focus on facts then post your facts and they can be discussed point for point. So far your two posts here have been nothing but vaguely stated character assassination attacks on the reputations of people who don't even visit these forums (as far as I know). And also some ominous reference to a "greater issue" that you have yet to illuminate.
 

Offline kicksucker2013

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2013, 04:09:24 am »
For every crowdfunding scammer there will be people defending the scammer. MacAttack has defended that particular scammer right from the beginning. Makes you wounder what his relation with the scammer is, despite his $300 "investment".

Hit the nail on the head.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: Forum Crowd Cost Sharing ? smARtDUINO I/O Bus MOD (Arduino/Raspberry/AVR/PIC)
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2013, 05:37:46 am »
For every crowdfunding scammer there will be people defending the scammer. MacAttack has defended that particular scammer right from the beginning. Makes you wounder what his relation with the scammer is, despite his $300 "investment".

Hit the nail on the head.

Let me get this straight. So your new theory is that *I* am in cahoots with Dimitri and have a reason to protect (potentially) fraudulent activity?

That's rich.
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: smARtDUINO - Real project with deceptive info
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2013, 04:24:15 am »
The proverbial turds have really hit the fan on this one lately. Backers are now looking for assistance from regulatory agencies and fraud crime units after the project owner failed to meet his latest target date (which is a year after funding ended, and over 9 months past the original ship date).

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fairduino/smartduino-open-system-by-former-arduinos-manufact/comments

I personally gave the project owner benefit of the doubt for a long time, but some of the recent revelations have been enough to convince me that I made a mistake in doing so.
 

Offline MacAttak

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There was already another thread on this topic - hopefully a mod will see this and lock this one so that further discussion can be followed in one place.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/smartduino-real-project-with-deceptive-info/


Merged
« Last Edit: November 29, 2013, 05:53:36 am by GeoffS »
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: smARtDUINO - Real project with deceptive info
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2013, 05:48:35 am »
wasnt there a YT clip like  a year ago from some Florida office with new employees packaging ready goods? or am I thinking about another KS/IG campaign?

Ian from Dangerous proto. had a talk with Igor ~2 years ago. Looked legit at the time
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Offline quantumvolt

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...

Judging by the mans videos and forum / blog posts I also do not think I would ever reflect on buying anything from him. So I am waiting for the bus board to be for sale at serious suppliers. I guess I will have to wait a while ...

Never mind, if nobody here is interested - and the yellow boards cannot be bought from other suppliers - I'll just get a big Vero board and paint it with a rainbow. It doesn't take a PhD to connect 80 copper traces to some connectors ...

Well ... I never did the paint job. As an old man living after the maxim "Better boards then broads" I used my cash on red, black, green, white, grey and blue boards. I tried to contact the SmartMaker shop once, but soon realized that my initially unjustified gut feeling towards the "I do it Yellow" team was somewhat (very) right.

However -  I knew the boards would soon appear "used" (read the comments on KS: the general opinion now is that they are "use"-less. As a bus system, I agree that a flat/ribbon cable is far better - but I am not in for the tech stuff: I am only in for the color).

So I have been looking for the first dumped boards. And yesterday I found them on fleabay. Auction starting price USD 0.99 - BIN USD 10. But only shipping to USA.

After some polite to and from I got them for USD 20 plus USPS First Class Intl. shipping USD 15 (i.e. in sum a negative price compared to fleabay new Global Shipping Program that was more than USD 40 in shipping and fees)

Anyway - the seller was happy, and I got my yellow boards  :-DD

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/BPAAAOxyni9TEnNV/$_57.JPG




 

Online Marco

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Neither of them have contributed anything original, rebranding someone else's work and profiting from it hardly qualifies as a contribution.

Driving cost down is a valuable contribution ... this is just the reality of simple hardware with open source software, the hardware can be cloned easily without infringing copyright.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 02:05:39 pm by Marco »
 

Offline kicksucker2013

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Driving cost down is a valuable contribution ... this is just the reality of simple hardware with open source software, the hardware can be cloned easily without infringing copyright.

As it has already been documented multiple times, there was no cost driven down - almost identical products (and based on reviews better quality) could be and can still be found on sites like eBay, aliexpress and several others.

There is no defense for this guy; he misrepresented everything about the project, his ability and his background. Period.

He is a sleazy internet marketer with a history of deceptive marketing, malware and failure to deliver hiding behind a mountain of lies.  He found an opportunity and milked it for all it was worth.
 

Offline kicksucker2013

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Re: smARtDUINO - Real project with deceptive info
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2014, 10:03:00 pm »
I linked to the hackaday article where they explain better. Basically the project claimed they manufactured real Arduinos but now are making their own project. By "manufacturing" they meant hired two former employees, but you won't see that on their kickstarter page.

http://hackaday.com/2012/11/27/kickstarter-incurs-the-wrath-of-arduino-creator/

Even this big charade was a lie - http://kicksucker.tumblr.com/post/78582148252/smartmaker-all-in-the-family
 


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