Author Topic: Smartscope  (Read 21956 times)

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Offline geppa.dee

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2014, 08:44:32 pm »
Disclaimer, I'm a backer of this project so... backer bias may apply and... I'm quite green when it comes to electronics.

1 "At $179 we believe there's no one out there offering a comparable scope"

you believe wrong
Your hardware is somewhere between Hantek 6022BE and Hantek DSO2090, still worse than the second while being more expensive to start. Not to mention cheapest Picoscope is 10x better while still being cheaper.
I'm a little intrigued by this, could you please elaborate a little ?
Like I said in the first line, I backed this project and I would like to know if I made a bad choice before the campaign ends (9 days).
You implied that the Hantek DSO2090 is better.

  • Max. Sample rate
SmartScope: 2x100MS/s
DSO2090: 100MS/s (I assume that since the DSO2090 claims only 100MS/s it means in 1CH mode, so 2x50MS/s in normalized values)
It would seem to me that the SmartScope is better in this regard.
  • Impedance
SmartScope: 1M? 10pF
DSO2090: 1M? 25pF
I'm under the impression that lower input capacitance was better so ... impedance being the same and capacitance being lower on the SmartScope, the later is again better.
  • Gain range
SmartScope: 20mV-10V (not sure if I interpret the spec correctly, they publish it as Min/Max full voltage scale)
DSO2090: 10mV-10V, 10Steps
The DSO2090 appears to be at an advantage here.
  • Coupling
SmartScope: AC/DC
DSO2090: AC/DC/GND
Again, advantage DSO2090.
  • Buffer size
SmartScope: 2M
DSO2090: 64K
Advantage SmartScope.

The rest of the specs are either not published by one producer or the other or I did not understand them completely, so I can't compare.
Based on this, to my uneducated eye, the SmartScope seems to be superior. Please correct me if I'm wrong (but also, please explain why).

Not to mention cheapest Picoscope is 10x better while still being cheaper.
The cheapest Picoscope I could find would be the handheld PicoScope 2104
As before, judging by the specs that I can pair, it seems inferior to the SmartScope. Also, the price is about the same (didn't look on ebay or second hand though... but that wouldn't be fair I think).

The only distinctive feature you offer is tablet app, but there is maybe 2 seconds of actual footage of this app in your movie.
Well... the SmartScope is open source, which is always nice and useful for a variety of reasons and they hint at open source hardware too, which is also quite nice...
It can serve as a FPGA dev board, offers the analyzer function on top of the scope and also the function and arbitrary wave generator on top of those (I have to admit to not having too clear an idea about the usefulness of these last two yet but that is my shortcoming... it can only be an added advantage for the device).

2 KS movie, its aimed at Arduidiots.
Whatever that means... I think it might refer to someone like me (long background in programming... getting interested in electronics after tinkering with some uC's of which the first was socketed to a board that had "Arduino" silkscreend on it). Hmm...

3 no knobs

you should of thought about that and offered something like
http://hackaday.com/2014/02/04/a-usb-connected-box-o-encoders/

its only plastic box, ~10 encoders and 8 bit micro emulating USB HID keyboard.
tastes and easy fixes, like the one you linked

All in all the only interesting thing you offer is the app, but I have a suspicion it will be a big letdown because you focused on hardware.
The software is updatable and open source...
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2014, 03:52:36 pm »
I was wrong about picoscope, looked at the 1Gs model listed somewhere at ~$200

main difference between Hanket is one exists, the other will maybe ship in a year
its even worse with software, it exists for Hantek (minus tablet), but judging by whole 2 seconds of software in KS promotion clip it doesnt exist for this project at all


basicalyl you cant compare ?1 year old product with a KS campain promises, otherwise we might start comparing Flir E4 with muoptics :)
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Offline geppa.dee

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 06:24:32 pm »
I was wrong about picoscope, looked at the 1Gs model listed somewhere at ~$200
Cheapest 1GS/s (1CH, so 2x500MS/s) Picoscope that I can find is the PicoScope 2207A.
It's listed at $741. That's 3.7 times more than the 2MB SmartScope. It has 5 times the sampling rate and thus effective bandwidth and 25 times less memory. Sounds like a compromise in specs and no contest in price. Aside from the whole OSS & OSHW part...

main difference between Hanket is one exists, the other will maybe ship in a year
Wait a second here. This is not one of those KS campaigns that only show renders and wave hands. These people have real, functional prototypes that they show (and use) in pics and video. Do you mean those are fakes? Because if not, it most definitely exists. I get that the Hantek is available and the SmartScope is not yet. But that's the whole point of them being on KS...
its even worse with software, it exists for Hantek (minus tablet), but judging by whole 2 seconds of software in KS promotion clip it doesn't exist for this project at all
Now you're making a not very cogent argument... I think. Even half a second of something would prove its existence (ironically, we're discussing devices used to find things much smaller in the time domain), let alone 2 secs. Let alone the 140 seconds they published yesterday. And also... again... OSS, API...
basicalyl you cant compare ?1 year old product with a KS campain promises, otherwise we might start comparing Flir E4 with muoptics :)
But... that's what prompted my answering you in the first place. You compared them. And deemed the Hantek superior on hardware and lower in price and the "cheapest" Picoscope "10x better" and still cheaper.
Now though... you say I should not compare the Hantek with the SmartScope on specs because... the Hantek is old... (I thought it was superior) and the Picoscope is almost 4x times more expensive and... not so sure about 10x better...
Can't comment on the Flir E4/Muoptics thing... haven't followed it.

Look... please don't get me wrong, I'm not debating for the sake of debating per se. Neither I'm trying to defend this product just because. I already said I backed them and if a real, reasoned, argument can be made that the SmartScope is bad value for money I want to hear it. Sooner rather than later if at all possible. I still have 8 days to get out.
 

Offline geppa.dee

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2014, 05:59:42 pm »
... please don't get me wrong, I'm not debating for the sake of debating per se. Neither I'm trying to defend this product just because. I already said I backed them and if a real, reasoned, argument can be made that the SmartScope is bad value for money I want to hear it. Sooner rather than later if at all possible. I still have 8 days to get out.

33 hours to go. Would really like to hear more arguments for or against this device. Would hate to through good money to the garbage but I've not enough electronics knowledge or experience to fully judge it's worthiness. I can only compare specs (those that I could find) and prices. (This last one is sadly significant :) ).
 

Offline frenky

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2014, 08:06:46 am »
I think that in theory this is a good project. Especially now with the dram upgrade and sigrok support.

But I'm very skeptical that they will finalise the product any time soon.
Because change from Spartan3 to Spartan6 with DRAM is quite significant.
 

Offline echen1024

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2014, 04:07:01 am »
Huh. 45MHz @ 100MS/s. Doesn't Sinx/x need at least 10x higher sampling? And I thought my Rigol was annoying.
I'm not saying we should kill all stupid people. I'm just saying that we should remove all product safety labels and let natural selection do its work.

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Offline geppa.dee

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2014, 04:27:24 pm »
Sorry for the thread archaeology, but the topic is what it is.
Less than a year later, though arguably not by much, last week I got two of these in the mail (the 4Ch pack). So... this project delivered on the hardware end. The software is still seeing rapid development but the basics are there and bugs that are reported seem to be fixed rapidly so far.
Pics of the device (not mine): http://sigrok.org/wiki/LabNation_SmartScope
Haven't had time to test it to the best of my (limited) abilities but I did install the available software on both Linux and Windows and tested basic functionality.
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2014, 07:51:07 pm »
Interesting. I see that the support for IOS is currently only through a jailbroken unit, and you need an an Android device with USB host support. I'm not sure how many devices support the latter, but I would think it's increasing.

The key USP for this that it works with a mobile device.

This barrier of connectivity for locally attached devices is a real problem for mobile OS's, and for IOS if you want a USB attached device without jailbreaking you can't do open source as Apple demands an NDA to be signed for their MFI program. Having to hack about like this limits the appeal somewhat I think.

Coincidentally recently, I tried out a Velleman WFS210. The apps look good visually but in my brief attempt to use it I pretty much failed. Lets hope this device fairs better!
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #33 on: December 23, 2014, 06:31:05 pm »
Sorry for the thread archaeology, but the topic is what it is.
Less than a year later, though arguably not by much, last week I got two of these in the mail (the 4Ch pack). So... this project delivered on the hardware end. The software is still seeing rapid development but the basics are there and bugs that are reported seem to be fixed rapidly so far.
Pics of the device (not mine): http://sigrok.org/wiki/LabNation_SmartScope
Haven't had time to test it to the best of my (limited) abilities but I did install the available software on both Linux and Windows and tested basic functionality.

I'm still waiting for delivery here in the colonies.

I signed up for the Lightning kit to connect to iOS devices, and only afterwards did I realize that the iOS thing needed a jailbreak. And that's a pain in the ass, so when they offered to refund the cost of that kit I took them up on it. And after months of asking "so, where's my refund?" I've been either ignored completely or been told that they want to issue all of the refunds at the same time. No refund, as yet.
 

Offline PointyOintment

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #34 on: December 25, 2014, 10:25:57 am »
I almost backed this. I still slightly regret deciding to wait until it was available after the campaign. That's now, though! :)

Online Marco

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2014, 04:27:40 pm »
Having to hack about like this limits the appeal somewhat I think.

The appeal for what, the Smartscope or iOS? ;)

Any ETA on when they're dropping the source BTW?
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2014, 07:17:36 pm »
This looks promising and if it works I will buy one. I find it a bit  concerning that they haven't got the software sorted out yet but are selling it as if it were finished.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2014, 10:50:56 pm »
This looks promising and if it works I will buy one. I find it a bit  concerning that they haven't got the software sorted out yet but are selling it as if it were finished.

They're shipping to people who pre-ordered earlier this month (and the pre-order link takes you to their page where they claim that the product is available and shipping) yet KickStarter backers in the US are still waiting for the thing.

I pretty much have no confidence that the thing will work well but as a platform that I can use with my own code, it might be OK.
 

Offline theoldwizard1

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2016, 06:01:18 pm »
THREAD RESURRECTION !

Has anyone actually gotten their hands on one of these and how does it work ?

Version 2 would obviously have faster sampling and a deeper buffer, which would be great !
 

Offline TonyD

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2016, 12:11:05 am »
Likewise. I'd be interested in finding out how well they work.

I missed the kickstarter first time around but I've been mulling over buying one
 

Offline geppa.dee

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #40 on: April 09, 2016, 11:10:26 am »
THREAD RESURRECTION !

Has anyone actually gotten their hands on one of these and how does it work ?

Version 2 would obviously have faster sampling and a deeper buffer, which would be great !

I have two of them from the Kickstarter batch. I got them a little over a year ago.
No idea about a version 2.

Likewise. I'd be interested in finding out how well they work.

I missed the kickstarter first time around but I've been mulling over buying one

The one I use works fine for what it is. My meager needs never pushed it beyond its specs. The software is still evolving and most (from what I could gather without closely studying the situation) sources have been published. I think they haven't published the FPGA code yet.
Never opened the second, I have it new in box as support for combining two into a 4Ch system wasn't yet ready last I looked.
 

Offline theoldwizard1

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #41 on: December 28, 2016, 05:43:43 pm »
I recently checked their web site.  They have NOT been able to sync 2 of these together to their satisfaction.  There was some hints that V2 of the product IS in active development, possibly coming out in 2017 !

I have not tried one, so I am not certain how good the software is, but the hardware specs certainly put this at the top of the web based 'scope heap.


Regarding 'scope software : PicoScope has pretty much captured the automotive market, not by having superior hardware, but by having superior software.  Their troubleshooter guides, a few useful probes (off the shelf from other vendors) and library of known good waveforms (supplied by their customers) is what allows then to charge an ENORMOUS price for their "middle of the road" product.  A bonus is printing out test result to "sell" the end customer on repairs.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: Smartscope
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2017, 08:45:55 pm »
I recently checked their web site.  They have NOT been able to sync 2 of these together to their satisfaction.  There was some hints that V2 of the product IS in active development, possibly coming out in 2017 !

I have not tried one, so I am not certain how good the software is, but the hardware specs certainly put this at the top of the web based 'scope heap.

I have one with the expanded memory. It arrived much later than promised, and I don't recall ever getting the refund for the undelivered and unusable Lightning kit.

That said: they seem to be continually updating the software, and quite honestly, it's very usable. The protocol decoders work. The display is responsive. Cross-triggering between the logic-analyzer section and the oscilloscope section is rudimentary (match one pattern, find an edge) but works.

The little box lives plugged into my Mac workstation, and it's very convenient to have around. For measurements within its capability, it's great, and I don't have to drag out the real 'scope and logic analyzer.
 


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