Author Topic: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?  (Read 76818 times)

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Offline Rasz

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #150 on: July 27, 2014, 04:44:21 pm »
Not that I think these guys are legit, but GigE switch silicon seems to be hard to come by in low quantities. It's a problem I've been having for my work. None of the chips I've found appear to be available, unless you are talking quantities in the 50K range. [I have  a few more parts to chase down, but reps have been slow to respond] If anyone has a line on one that is readily available [in sub 100pc quantities], I'd love to hear from you. [Specifically I've been looking for 5 port unmanaged solutions (or 4+1)]

rly?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-piece-New-Marvell-88E6350R-TFJ2-TQFP-IC-Chip-/271313543520
stuff is made in CHINA, stop looking for parts in US
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Offline Precipice

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #151 on: July 27, 2014, 05:12:43 pm »
Really?Marvell part, no data, no real supplier? Not for production, I don't, not with a bargepole...
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #152 on: July 27, 2014, 06:18:40 pm »
Really?

rly

Marvell part

is that bad? :)

no data

what data?, oh, you want NDA data with your chip? without signing NDA?

no real supplier

13K sold, 99.7%, thats three sigma right there :)
selling mainly replacement ICs for service work, Ill admit some of his 'brand new' ones are recycled :) with solder on the leads, but Im sure they are all working.
plus we are talking sourcing one offs for prototype

Not for production, I don't, not with a bargepole...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/88E6350R-MARVELL-QFP-NEW/1801115015.html
lists crapton of other marvell chips

or get a shenzhen sales agent to source chips for you on the ground.

+
http://avnetexpress.avnet.com/store/em/EMController/_/A-8866119/An-0?action=part&catalogId=500201&langId=-1&storeId=500201&CMP=KNC-Supplyframe_VSE-T11
http://components.arrow.com/part/detail/59828335S531998N7335?region=na&utm_source=FindChips&utm_medium=buyNow
http://www.componentsdirect.com/marvell-88e6350-a1-tah2c000.html?utm_source=supplyFrame&utm_medium=buyNow

its a frickin ethernet switch, not a military grade 10Ghz ADC
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Offline Precipice

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #153 on: July 27, 2014, 06:36:27 pm »
Marvell's approach to data makes it (almost?) impossible to use them in an open source project.
The bastards bought the Stongarm PXA2xx from Intel, and locked it right down, after we were shipping. (I have a long memory...)
Every encounter I've had with them (in the annoying thousands, but not hundreds of thousands volumes) has been a tedious crapfest of NDAs and still inadequate documentation, which had to be wrested from them, page by page. They're right at the bottom of the pile, when it comes to choosing chips, for me. Maybe I was just doing it wrong? Hints would be welcome, they've often got silicon that looks tempting, but I just can't be arsed any more.
The Soap boys are well out of it if they can avoid Marvell, in my opinion.
 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #154 on: July 27, 2014, 07:41:34 pm »

rly?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-piece-New-Marvell-88E6350R-TFJ2-TQFP-IC-Chip-/271313543520
stuff is made in CHINA, stop looking for parts in US

Ebay is not a reliable source for production [it needs to be available through a listed rep or distributor for me to even consider it]. My local Marvell rep is one of the slow responders, so they are still an option, if anyone ever gets back to me. [But I to have had bad experiences with Marvell, so they are not high on my list. On a previous design they refused to even engage because I wasn't talking about 100K units, I'm hoping that's not the case again here]
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 07:48:01 pm by CanadianAvenger »
 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #155 on: July 27, 2014, 11:54:56 pm »
On a previous design they refused to even engage because I wasn't talking about 100K units, I'm hoping that's not the case again here]

That's odd...must depend on the chipset you are looking at? My company regularly does small runs (much, much less than 100K qty) of very niche designs and we use Marvell GigE PHYs & switches in a majority of them.

I've also been able to request samples of Marvell parts without much fuss. Maybe you just need to wine and dine your Marvell rep?  :D
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 11:57:45 pm by dext0rb »
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Offline Precipice

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #156 on: July 28, 2014, 08:15:25 am »
. Maybe you just need to wine and dine your Marvell rep?  :D

I'm beginning to suspect they work differently in the USA...
In the UK, they're repped through a company that doesn't have a website, or you can take your chances with Avnet, which isn't so bad, but is where unloved products go.
 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #157 on: July 28, 2014, 01:21:56 pm »
That's odd...must depend on the chipset you are looking at? My company regularly does small runs (much, much less than 100K qty) of very niche designs and we use Marvell GigE PHYs & switches in a majority of them.

I've also been able to request samples of Marvell parts without much fuss. Maybe you just need to wine and dine your Marvell rep?  :D

The 100K was for the Armada Processor and companion chip. [it's the processor used in the reference Google TV design] And in that design My quantity was around 10K/yr!

I have used Marvell chips in other designs, poor documentation, but the chips work as desired. As I said I'm still waiting for a response from the rep on this one... it is summer vacation time around here, so that may explain the delay.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 01:27:10 pm by CanadianAvenger »
 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #158 on: July 28, 2014, 07:38:53 pm »
I have used Marvell chips in other designs, poor documentation, but the chips work as desired.

Haha, you can say that again! Last Marvell chip I worked with, 88E7221, many of the SoC registers were marked "TBD" in the datasheet.  :clap:
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Offline rob77

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #159 on: July 28, 2014, 08:03:32 pm »
I have used Marvell chips in other designs, poor documentation, but the chips work as desired.

Haha, you can say that again! Last Marvell chip I worked with, 88E7221, many of the SoC registers were marked "TBD" in the datasheet.  :clap:

TBD => To Be Documented ?  probably they used some high level chip design tool and they still discovering the various unwanted features ?  :-DD :-DD
 

Offline BartManInNZ

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #160 on: July 30, 2014, 09:26:23 am »
Does this update make any sense?

"As you may know that the IMX6 has bandwidth limitations with their gigabyte ethernet that peaks around 470 mbps. We have had to use a gigabyte ethernet solution like intel to circumvent this speed limitation but our solution as of now is to use a part from freescale or intel that will put a router/switch on the single port solution from intel. We have been talking with intel, marvell and freescale on our final solution but it will be something similar to the one i have laid out"
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Online tom66

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #161 on: July 30, 2014, 06:02:51 pm »
They still use "gigabyte" when talking about gigabit ethernet, I cannot take them seriously at all.
 

Offline rob77

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #162 on: July 30, 2014, 07:17:16 pm »
Routers capable of 1GB/sec are available

such a router costs a fortune !  1GB/s = 8Gb/s . even a L3 switch capable of routing such a traffic is still freaking expensive.
 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #163 on: July 30, 2014, 07:55:38 pm »
Does this update make any sense?

"As you may know that the IMX6 has bandwidth limitations with their gigabyte ethernet that peaks around 470 mbps. We have had to use a gigabyte ethernet solution like intel to circumvent this speed limitation but our solution as of now is to use a part from freescale or intel that will put a router/switch on the single port solution from intel. We have been talking with intel, marvell and freescale on our final solution but it will be something similar to the one i have laid out"

My guess from deciphering the gibberish: Intel GigE PCIe chip (so they can actually get 1Gbit/s, "single port solution"), connect that to a switch from Intel/Freescale/Marvell to get the rest of the ports.
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Offline Bassman59

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #164 on: July 30, 2014, 11:38:30 pm »
They still use "gigabyte" when talking about gigabit ethernet, I cannot take them seriously at all.

Well: "As you may know that the IMX6 has bandwidth limitations with their gigabyte ethernet that peaks around 470 mbps"

Since the gigabyte interface only does about 470 millibits per second, I'd say that's a severe limitation.
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #165 on: July 31, 2014, 03:21:04 pm »
such a router costs a fortune !  1GB/s = 8Gb/s . even a L3 switch capable of routing such a traffic is still freaking expensive.

Typo.

typo is something you do once, maybe twice if you are terribad at keyboard, now when you use same word over and over without understanding its meaning
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Offline sigxcpu

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #166 on: August 01, 2014, 08:17:00 am »
Routers capable of 1GB/sec are available

such a router costs a fortune !  1GB/s = 8Gb/s . even a L3 switch capable of routing such a traffic is still freaking expensive.

No, it is not. http://routerboard.com/CCR1009-8G-1S

 

Offline CanadianAvenger

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #167 on: August 01, 2014, 12:21:30 pm »
Routers capable of 1GB/sec are available

such a router costs a fortune !  1GB/s = 8Gb/s . even a L3 switch capable of routing such a traffic is still freaking expensive.

No, it is not. http://routerboard.com/CCR1009-8G-1S

That's a 1 gigabit router not an 8 gigabit router, which is what is being implied by the GB/sec (gigabyte) instead of Gb/sec (gigabit). [technically it would have to be a 10Gb router, as that is the next step from 1Gb]
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #168 on: August 01, 2014, 02:28:59 pm »
Routers capable of 1GB/sec are available

such a router costs a fortune !  1GB/s = 8Gb/s . even a L3 switch capable of routing such a traffic is still freaking expensive.

No, it is not. http://routerboard.com/CCR1009-8G-1S

That's a 1 gigabit router not an 8 gigabit router, which is what is being implied by the GB/sec (gigabyte) instead of Gb/sec (gigabit). [technically it would have to be a 10Gb router, as that is the next step from 1Gb]

They can still deliver 10Gbit router if they really want to, AMD started shipping 2x10Gbit ARMv8 dev kits ($3K) this week :D
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Offline rob77

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #169 on: August 01, 2014, 04:33:06 pm »
Routers capable of 1GB/sec are available

such a router costs a fortune !  1GB/s = 8Gb/s . even a L3 switch capable of routing such a traffic is still freaking expensive.

No, it is not. http://routerboard.com/CCR1009-8G-1S

That's a 1 gigabit router not an 8 gigabit router, which is what is being implied by the GB/sec (gigabyte) instead of Gb/sec (gigabit). [technically it would have to be a 10Gb router, as that is the next step from 1Gb]

They can still deliver 10Gbit router if they really want to, AMD started shipping 2x10Gbit ARMv8 dev kits ($3K) this week :D

btw... if a router has 10Gbit interfaces, it doesn't necessarily mean it's capable of routing @ 10Gbit/s ;)
 

Online tom66

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #170 on: August 01, 2014, 10:13:59 pm »
Especially with on-the-fly virus scanning on every routed packet.  ::)
 

Offline madires

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #171 on: August 02, 2014, 02:41:39 pm »
Indeed, they are taking about going beyond carrier grade DPI.

Deep Pocket Inspection of backers?  >:D
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #172 on: August 02, 2014, 11:06:32 pm »
typo is something you do once, maybe twice if you are terribad at keyboard, now when you use same word over and over without understanding its meaning

I was talking about using GB instead of Gb. What are you on about?

And yes, I have arthritis in my hands, I do typo stuff all the time.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about this:
"As you may know that the IMX6 has bandwidth limitations with their gigabyte ethernet that peaks around 470 mbps. We have had to use a gigabyte ethernet solution..."

As he said, a typo is something you do once, on accident.  Calling it gigabyte vs gigabit TWICE in as many sentences demonstrates a clear lack of understanding, either that or a shady attempt to prey on the lack of understanding in their audience.  Based on their "millibits per second" usage, I'm going with a lack of understanding.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 11:12:03 pm by suicidaleggroll »
 

Offline sairon

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #173 on: August 03, 2014, 03:39:28 pm »
Another interesting fact - one of the chips on the bottom side of the board is presumably SMSC LAN9500. Why the hell would anyone want a USB to ethernet chip on a router?

And regarding OSC6, as someone was speaking about earlier, the soldering job has been done as expected to avoid the collision between ethernet connector's pads and case of the oscillator, just notice those "floating" crystals :D
 

Offline rob77

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #174 on: August 03, 2014, 03:56:26 pm »
i assume the SMSC LAN9500 USB ethernet is the WAN port and the end of life Micrel KSZ8895 is forming a managed LAN switch.
but the guys apparently didn't realize the USB Ethernet will eat up a lot of cpu cycles - considering all the features they're promising... well... i think many of the  $80 SOHO routers will outperform the SOAP in terms of throughput.
 


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