Author Topic: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?  (Read 76891 times)

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Offline rob77

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #175 on: August 04, 2014, 01:49:49 pm »
is it just me ? or do you find this thread related ? ;)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/smart-router/
 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #176 on: August 05, 2014, 06:20:31 pm »
I wonder about getting regulatory approval as well. For something with so many radios and such complex software it could be tricky getting it done in every part of the world where they have backers. The EU and US alone will be hard work, and expensive.

They think that because the RF modules are already certified, that everything will play nicely together and passing regulatory tests will be a breeze.  :palm:

I don't think they've ever spent even 1 minute in an anechoic chamber, or even know what one is.
I have a strong feeling they won't actually test the device, but fall back on "We thought everything was certified! We didn't know! Oops!"

Also considering they've wasted time and money with this current stupid layout and BOM (The 10/100 Micrel part just for testing? ), it is pointless to even test this unit for EMI because the layout and BOM will be totally different on the "final" version. You can't test one thing and ship another...

I can't read the KS updates, but from the comments it sounds like they told everyone to expect a 3 month delay. Big surprise there...  :clap:
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Offline macgyver0815

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #177 on: August 09, 2014, 02:12:29 pm »
Did not wade through the complete thread but just have to say: Very entertaining project! 
3 PCB / Chip antennas* and 4 external "high performance" antennas... plus USB 3, HDMI, Display and several ethernet ports.
Will require magic RF *soap* to clean that mess ;)


* I hope they want to use an external antenna only for that Redpine Wifi combo module, they routed some parallel bus right under the PCB antenna of that module   :-+ :clap: :-+
https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/755143/files/20140730154759-2014-07-30_14.22.50.jpg?1406760479
(under the button cell on the top right)


Maybe Apple can help them with the EMC tests.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/07/iphone-reception-pc-0878-rm-eng.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1419.gif

 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #178 on: August 09, 2014, 07:08:01 pm »
* I hope they want to use an external antenna only for that Redpine Wifi combo module, they routed some parallel bus right under the PCB antenna of that module   :-+ :clap: :-+
https://images.indiegogo.com/file_attachments/755143/files/20140730154759-2014-07-30_14.22.50.jpg?1406760479
(under the button cell on the top right)

Oh wow, good eye.  :clap:

Can't wait to see the performance numbers on this thing. 
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Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #179 on: October 17, 2014, 07:56:58 pm »
Still vaporware, lol.

The communication with backers mainly consists of: "We will update you later with another update about all our updates." Bravo.
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Offline madires

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #180 on: October 17, 2014, 08:22:06 pm »
Still vaporware, lol.

The communication with backers mainly consists of: "We will update you later with another update about all our updates." Bravo.

Thanks for the update! ;) I wonder how long it will take until the first backers start filing complaints.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #181 on: October 18, 2014, 08:24:27 am »
Wow, yet another useless update.  |O  Thankfully the natives *are* getting restless.

As a $1 backer on KS I can see the "backer-only" update, but am not getting the update emails - presumably they are specifically selecting an option to exclude the 40 $1 backers from notification.  :--
Non backers can see the update on IGG anyway, as they now post identical updates on both projects.
 

Offline SashaK

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #182 on: November 10, 2014, 12:36:19 am »
Kean & all,

Hi! Just registered here. To your point of getting restless, I've added a link to this thread on the Soap Users tech resources thread http://soapusers.freeforums.org/technical-resources-f6.html

I've initialized the Soap Users forum http://soapusers.freeforums.org/ a few days ago in order to help Kickstarter and IndieGoGo backers reach out to each other more easily than the comment threads on both sites where comments may scroll off and there's no search, threaded reply or direct message. Soap Users is under the users' control and all normal forum features are there plus we can elect our own moderators, etc.

Let me know (or simply reply there) if there's anything missing on the Soap media coverage topic http://soapusers.freeforums.org/soap-project-media-mentions-t11.html

Also (important) I'm just an IndieGoGo backer (Soap Quad) so have no way of making Kickstarter backers aware of this new resource. If you feel it's worthwhile, it may make sense to post the link in KS campaign comments.
 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #183 on: November 27, 2014, 04:42:34 pm »
Entirely vaporware now. Hardware scrapped. Will be releasing PCB source files, though, which I find odd because the thing didn't work, so why would anybody want them? It's clear the whole thing was a disaster and needed more than just a couple simple fixes.  :-/O
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Offline firewalker

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #184 on: November 27, 2014, 05:06:24 pm »
Quote
After the first production run we soon noticed EMI issues and our engineers found a few problems that ended up being much more serious then what we first thought. This led to a cross road of an option to continue down the risky development path and have potentially nothing to show or to ship to our backers, or we could pivot and find a off the shelf option that is all ready to go and then focus on the software.

Just  :-DD :-DD :-DD

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #185 on: November 27, 2014, 07:08:06 pm »
its almost as if the whole thing was a SCAM from the get go .... :-DD
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Offline madires

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #186 on: November 27, 2014, 07:23:58 pm »
Entirely vaporware now. Hardware scrapped. Will be releasing PCB source files, though, which I find odd because the thing didn't work, so why would anybody want them? It's clear the whole thing was a disaster and needed more than just a couple simple fixes.  :-/O

... but threatening critics with lawyers. One could argue that the whole project is a deliberate fraud, especially when considering the tons of add-ons and extras for a few bucks more.
 

Online tom66

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #187 on: November 27, 2014, 08:27:53 pm »
I remain convinced that hardware electronic projects on Kickstarter require considerable vetting before being allowed to fund.
 

Offline macgyver0815

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #188 on: January 09, 2015, 03:43:31 pm »
Latest CES News (heise.de is a large german IT news site)

Photo of actual "Soap" hardware on their CES stand:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Schiefgelaufene-Crowdfunding-Kampagne-fuer-Wunder-Router-Soap-Unterstuetzer-sind-doch-keine-Vorbesteller-2514280.html?view=zoom;zoom=1

(it is real "Soap") :-DD



http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/S-Schiefgelaufene-Crowdfunding-Kampagne-fuer-Wunder-Router-Soap-Unterstuetzer-sind-doch-keine-Vorbesteller/forum-290457/list/

crappy translation here (headline is more something like "miracle-router crowdfunding campaign has failed: Backing is not pre-ordering"):
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnewsticker%2Fmeldung%2FSchiefgelaufene-Crowdfunding-Kampagne-fuer-Wunder-Router-Soap-Unterstuetzer-sind-doch-keine-Vorbesteller-2514280.html&edit-text=

but you get the message: looking for more money from investors, because they spend all of it and hardware costs 400€ to produce for a product they offered for $200.
They will no longer develop hardware but focus on software.

Though, they do say they want to try to deliver the hardware to backers - if they get new investors and actually sell their software... 

 :palm:


 

Offline madires

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #189 on: January 09, 2015, 04:07:10 pm »
If I got that right, they want to sell a home automation software for some selected router, take the money and try to give the Soap backers the promised router. Isn't that called a ponzi scheme?
 

Offline Rasz

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #190 on: January 10, 2015, 10:49:12 am »
+ they dont have ANY software to begin with :))
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Offline rob77

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #191 on: January 10, 2015, 10:58:32 am »
+ they dont have ANY software to begin with :))

no hardware, no software - but making big noise around the yet non-existent product :D sounds like a standard corporate approach nowadays  :-DD
 

Offline Kean

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #192 on: January 13, 2015, 11:47:07 am »
So SOAP have posted a new "Post CES" update on KS & IGG.  You have to be a backer on KS to read it, but it should be viewable by anyone on IGG:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/it-s-a-router-it-s-a-android-tablet-it-s-home-automation-its-soap/#activity

They've basically given up on being a hardware company, and have actually admitted some of the ealy criticism was valid.   |O

They're still saying they have sourced third party "certified" hardware with higher specs, but it won't support all the original features, and no actual details on how this maps to pledges.  The PCB in the photos is labelled SBC8A341 and the MAC addresses belong to Axiom Tech.  I'm guessing it is the PCB from The AxiomTek NA341 - the specifications match.  Note that there is no display connector on this PCB, although there might be VGA hidden somewhere (it is mentioned in Axioms specs).  More importantly, I suspect they don't actually realise that just because this PCB (and whatever wireless module they'll add) is FCC/CE certified, that doesn't mean they can ship without going through certification of their final product (although not as bad if they have test reports for each of the modules).

The "Soap PCB Open Source files" is just a ZIP file of Gerbers & a BOM... for a design that never worked.  No design files or even a PDF schematic, so hardly counts as Open Source.  :--

Worst of all, they are talking about running another crowd funding campaign to fund their new sooper-dooper software.  :palm:
And somehow this relates to refunding unhappy backers:
Quote
the new campaign will give you the chance to withdrawal your support
:-DD
 

Offline Kean

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #193 on: January 13, 2015, 03:58:04 pm »
Quote
7. Support Withdrawal

We are aware of the people who no longer wish to support Soap and we are going to be processing returns for those people. The final campaign will allow this to happen easier then us returning each unit for each person that wants to pull their support. We are sorry that the direction and the Soap Founders bar are not what you would like but we completely understand.

Not clear what they mean there... A refund for anyone who wants one?

The only way I can make sense of it is that they've already placed an order for all the hardware to satisfy existing backer pledges (yeah, sure!), and to be able to afford to refund anyone they would first need to sell it to someone else via the new crowd funding campaign (good luck!).
 

Online tom66

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2015, 05:58:31 pm »
I believe that's the textbook definition of a Ponzi scheme. :-DD
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 06:02:42 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline mamalala

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #195 on: January 13, 2015, 06:14:05 pm »
Quote
7. Support Withdrawal

We are aware of the people who no longer wish to support Soap and we are going to be processing returns for those people. The final campaign will allow this to happen easier then us returning each unit for each person that wants to pull their support. We are sorry that the direction and the Soap Founders bar are not what you would like but we completely understand.

Not clear what they mean there... A refund for anyone who wants one?

Sounds like "We start a new campaign and use that money to pay out the backers of the old campaign who wanted out" to me.

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline dext0rb

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #196 on: January 13, 2015, 10:35:03 pm »
LMAO, this is so, so good.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

I did not think it would even get to this level of  :wtf:. I love the PCB "custom design files" release - hahaha ok, Gerbers. Fuck these guys already.

"We'll pay you back with money from our next campaign." HAHAHA. I mean, COME ON. Who is going to buy in to your next campaign, you deluded Soap-people?!?

What an outright ABUSE of crowdfunding. I would say it can't get any worse but tomorrow is another day.  :-DD

Please hackaday tear into these clowns now, once and for all.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 10:37:28 pm by dext0rb »
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Online tom66

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #197 on: January 14, 2015, 12:05:33 am »
I looked at some of the gerbers, and to be honest they don't look bad. I don't see any major, obvious issues, they look to have been designed by someone with a clue. My guess is they spend ~$10,000-30,000 getting the design done by an actual engineer, then probably realised they'd need a few more spins and a lot more software to make it go, plus the cost of the components will have been way more than they had anticipated.

I don't see anything in the  BOM for lower voltage buck converters so assume all the magic happened on that add on card. I wonder how much that cost?
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #198 on: January 14, 2015, 01:16:28 am »
...Please hackaday tear into these clowns now, once and for all.

Hey.. you better watch out.. You are talking about Brian Benchoff's new best friends!  He might use the insight from his dual degrees in Electronic Media and Psychology to write something about you on the internet!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/why-is-hackaday-com-now-activly-promoting-the-soap-project/

And the same people that bought into the indigogo campaign after the obviously scammy kickstarter campaign are the ones that are going to still buy into the third one.  After this project and solar roadways I've pretty much lost any faith that your average person can make tech decisions on their own anymore.
 

Online dunkemhigh

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Re: Soap router - HW specs too good to be true?
« Reply #199 on: January 14, 2015, 02:31:13 am »
Quote
7. Support Withdrawal

We are aware of the people who no longer wish to support Soap and we are going to be processing returns for those people. The final campaign will allow this to happen easier then us returning each unit for each person that wants to pull their support. We are sorry that the direction and the Soap Founders bar are not what you would like but we completely understand.

Not clear what they mean there... A refund for anyone who wants one?

Sounds like "We start a new campaign and use that money to pay out the backers of the old campaign who wanted out" to me.

When I read that I thought they were saying that it's an opportunity for those who are disillusioned to drop out. By implication that would mean that if you are still interested you would contribute to the new funding, if not you won't. What's already been paid is gone, and if you don't cough for the new funding you will see and get nothing.

But there's the mention of a refund, so maybe it is as y'all say after all.  :-//
 


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