solar roadways

[suicidaleggroll]

I haven't seen this on here yet, so let me know if it's a repost.

This is a campaign for modular solar panels for paving roads/parking lots with built in LED lighting and heating elements for snow.  It certainly looks interesting, but I can think of a few potential issues that would need to be addressed.  I do believe the idea is worth exploring, and this seems like a step in the right direction.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways

[max_torque]

Whilst it's an interesting idea, i can't imagine it makes any financial sense currently in terms of $ per kWHr!

(expensive to make, and install, poor alignment with the sun in most latitudes, likely to get dirty and damaged easily etc)

[Legit-Design]

Instead of waiting for that breakthrough in solar panel manufacturing, efficiency and durability and all that is required for them to work this way. We skip the breakthrough part and go straight into manufacturing with what we have.

Hmm I guess they will address the important things after they get the money. I would say that is a smart choice.

Does something solar suddenly make people stupid? I remember this one patent some little kid got patent for nature inspired solar panel placement. When plants put their leaves towards the sun to get maximum sun exposure, we can put our solar panels same way towards the sun and get better exposure, rather than pointing them the wrong way. 

[miguelvp]

Yeah, looks ok but tempered glass that can stand a small tractor might not be able to deal with an 18 wheeler

Also the cost! so they have just standard photo cells hopefully balanced for when a car is over it so that the shading doesn't affect the load. So some logic per module I guess.

Having some LEDs doesn't mean they can draw whatever on the lot either, tons of made up assumptions on that indigogo offer.

Rain and electronics, or water next to the voltage rails?


Also what stops me from just going to the road and picking the module from the ground to take it home, needs some anti theft interlocking adding more cost.

[Legit-Design]

Rain and electronics, or water next to the voltage rails?

They were planning to embed the leds and solar cells between glass sandwich. Roads can get extremely hot in the summer how would they cool the cells? Overheated solar cells decrease efficiency and is just waste of money since they are expensive anyways. Maybe they would do it the same way they solved every other problem in this project, by just ignoring it.
They got funding from US department of transportation, they built giant smart led panels and called the smart solar road? Looks like they forgot the actual solar panels from their prototype (OOPS!), I guess they didn't meet their funding goal to secure the next round.  But atleast they can spell out any message with their smart road/ led panel.   

[mtdoc]

What a terrible idea on so many levels...

Solar panels on roofs yes. Roads, no.

[Dago]

Crappy idea. It's like they are trying to solve a non-existing problem (as if there's no space for solar panels anywhere else, all roofs are empty etc.).

Poor alignment to sun, they will need a thick glass that will attenuate the light, it will chip, get scratched, get dirty and damaged. And solar panel ROI or payback time is not the best to begin with!

Why combine roads and solar panels to form one crappy compromise (very expensive to make and maintain road that will function as a shitty solar panel) when you could just build roads cheaply and put solar panels on roofs or desert or somewhere else where you could align them better and they would not be subject to such massive mechanical wear.

[electr_peter]

Crappy idea. It's like they are trying to solve a non-existing problem (as if there's no space for solar panels anywhere else, all roofs are empty etc.).

Poor alignment to sun, they will need a thick glass that will attenuate the light, it will chip, get scratched, get dirty and damaged. And solar panel ROI or payback time is not the best to begin with!

Why combine roads and solar panels to form one crappy compromise (very expensive to make and maintain road that will function as a shitty solar panel) when you could just build roads cheaply and put solar panels on roofs or desert or somewhere else where you could align them better and they would not be subject to such massive mechanical wear.

Simple logic that dismantles whole idea of solar panels on the road.
Solar panel roads would work only if:

• solar panels are cheap per meter square for W they produce (currently prices are still high)
• solar panels would be robust enough to mount as a road surface(glass on the road, is it a joke?)
• solar panels on road would cost only slightly more than road + separate solar panels.
• various problems regarding shadows, heating, electrical grid integration, electrical integrity and safety are solved

Idea is to use existing infrastructure (huge area of road surface) as a "free" solar array. Of course, in practice you have to dismiss the fact there is no such infrastructure in the first place (you "just" need to rebuild all the roads for "minimal cost").

[bookaboo]

While this isn't feasible with current solar and material technology why the hell not have research into new types of road surface. More than likely this project will run into several walls, but at least then we know where the walls are. Also, there's a chance that some part of it may become feasible in some way.

Road surfaces are not exactly a perfect issue as it stands, they need constant expensive work and maintenance and the technology is 115 years old.

Hats off to them, though I think its a daft crowdfund project (zero chance of feasible reward for funders) hopefully they find some venture capitalist willing to fire money on a long term long shot and inspire others to look at the problem.


In other words... haters gonna hate 

[corrado33]

Why not just stick water pipes under the roads and bleed off the heat collected by the roads to produce energy?

[reubot]

Why the Solar Roadways Project on Indiegogo is Actually Really Silly

[Legit-Design]

Why not just stick water pipes under the roads and bleed off the heat collected by the roads to produce energy?

Solar panels are way cooler. Normal people don't know anything about solar panels how they work and how you should install them. They just think you stick them on the road and they magically start producing electricity. Normal people don't care either, to them cool solar panels are cool. 

Solar roadways are frickin  $1,258,561USD  COOL!

RAISED OF $1,000,000 GOAL
126%  5 days left

[mtdoc]

Why the Solar Roadways Project on Indiegogo is Actually Really Silly

Nice link. Thanks.

In essence, solar power is still significantly costlier than most other options if you’re building a power plant. However, you CAN put solar panels in all sorts of places that are otherwise just taking up space. If you own a massive warehouse, you can’t very well build a tiny nuclear plant on its roof (it is, at the very least, extremely inadvisable). You can, however, install solar panels.
And the solar industry is focused on doing just that. China, for instance, has a stated goal of installing 8 gigawatts (that’s a lot) of solar power in the form of distributed generation this year. And the moment big box-store chains like Wal-Mart (WMT), office parks, warehouses, and office buildings can see the necessary results on their balance sheets, there’s going to be solar panels everywhere. This is closer to being a reality than most people realize, the price point is rapidly approaching the area where it makes financial sense.
So, with the millions and millions of acres of unused roof space in areas with heavy year-round sunshine, why solar roads?

Roofs yes. Roads no.

[Legit-Design]

Ok lets take that solar roadways Wal-Mart they have big parking lots? What if I park my car on top of their solar panels. Their solar panels that costed fortune will be unable to produce electricity because sun is shining at it's strongest during the day when people are parking on the parking lot or driving the roads. How are solar panels so hard to understand for people? Main argument going for them I've seen "they are going to be expensive in the beginning, but what about in the future?" Why don't they have any calculations about that? And they are not even saying that, they are just letting people think that.

[mtdoc]

I do have to admire their marketing prowess. Their video is marketing genius. "Solar Freakin Roadways!"

The fact that they've raised over 1.2 million dollars in mostly small donations also, I think, speaks to people's recognition that we need a better power generation paradigm.

Over 9,000  donations of $10 or less with the only perk being a thank you!

Then of course there are the 5 people who paid $10,000 to get:

7-inch Glass Hexagon
For your donation, we'll send you a 7-inch hexagon containing the same textured surface as our full-sized Solar Road Panels (top and bottom layers). This will be a small working model, including solar cells, LEDs, and a microprocessor. Individually numbered, limited edition.

Wow - solar cells, LEDs and even a microprocessor!   

[CanadianAvenger]

I love how they tout the LED's as allowing for "reconfigurable" road markings, and notifications. Yet they never show how visible these LED's are during the day, which would be fairly important for safety one would think. [Any daytime shots are artists renderings] -- these things are just a solution looking for  problem.

[miguelvp]

Then of course there are the 5 people who paid $10,000 to get:

7-inch Glass Hexagon
For your donation, we'll send you a 7-inch hexagon containing the same textured surface as our full-sized Solar Road Panels (top and bottom layers). This will be a small working model, including solar cells, LEDs, and a microprocessor. Individually numbered, limited edition.

Wow - solar cells, LEDs and even a microprocessor!   

36-watt (assume is watt/hour) per panel currently so how long will it take to pay for itself?
so $10000 / 36 = $278 per Watt/h

Let's take the Pacific non continuous islands at $28.74 per kilowatt. or $0.02874 per watt.

So it will pay itself in 9673 hours (of sunlight that is) let's be optimistic and give them 8 hours a day. We are at 1,209.125 days. So 3 years 4 months without maintenance.

Of course average in the US per kilowatt is $12.26 and maybe they get 4 hours so that will be four times that long average 13 years more or less.

The good thing is that the normal production will be way less than $10K per block, that's just as a limited edition memento, glass plus all those parts should be way less, but you will have to add the infrastructure cost.

But all the money goes to them to complete their contract, right? so it's all donated money.
They also mention that they can make money by other means:

How can a Solar Roadway pay for itself? How can it generate revenue?

. Through the generation of electricity
. By transporting cleaned stormwater to municipalities or agricultural centers
. By leasing the roadside conduit (Cable Corridor) to entities such as utility companies, telephone, high-speed internet, cable TV, etc
. By selling advertising in parking lots with the configurable LEDs
. By charging people or companies to recharge their electric vehicles
. There's probably several more ways we haven't even thought of!

Also on the stealing:

These panels must be valuable. What's to keep people from stealing them for home use?

Each panel has its own microprocessor, which communicates wirelessly with the surrounding panels. They monitor each other for malfunctions or problems. Even if someone were able to pull a panel out of the road and load it on a truck, the stolen panel would continue communicating with all of the other panels in the road. The road would know exactly where it was and how fast it was moving, making the criminal a sitting duck for law enforcement.

People will surely try however, and we'll probably be treated to several "World's Dumbest Criminal" episodes before the thieves finally decide it's not worth it!

I guess they don't know how clever people can get, faraday cage and you got your memento (not encouraging anyone to do so). Or off road.

They better put security cameras



Edit: Source: their FAQ

http://solarroadways.com/faq.shtml

Now let's see what happens.

[Legit-Design]

Also on the stealing:

They better put security cameras

With the money spendage they are already looking, no one would notice if each hexagon had small camera in it. If the cameras are streaming all the time no thief could get away... UNLESS they went on a dirt road that has no solar panels on it.   

[corrado33]

It would probably be pretty easy to steal these things, regardless of "wireless sensors". You're making the assumption that those wireless communications would work over a distance of a few feet (road to truck bed) through a few layers of steel when they were originally designed to work only a few inches away. Not to mention they were designed to be stationary. You're making another assumption that the wireless communication will connect to, pair with, then actually transmit and/or receive data while on the move at let's assume 80 MPH because if I stole something I surely wouldn't be going the speed limit, at least for a while.

I think that's a bad assumption. Besides, how would it be getting power? (Assuming you're stealing it at night, or simply flip it upside down during the day?)

Anyway, I think one of the main issues is traction and well... dirt! Adding texture to the glass reduces the amount of sunlight passed through the glass, therefore reduces the efficiency of the solar panel. Also, cars would drag a ton of dirt onto the road, which would further reduce the efficiency. We'd have to hire new people just to clean the roads (with gentle scrubbers as to not scratch the glass.)

And finally, how do you deal with people like this...

[abaxas]

It would be easy to see if this is a good idea or not.

Give me a couple of hours with a large hammer.

My betting is that it wouldn't pass the test.

[Legit-Design]

It would be easy to see if this is a good idea or not.
Give me a couple of hours with a large hammer.
My betting is that it wouldn't pass the test.

Tempered glass breaks easiest with sharp object with small area and big impact. If you have seen those emergency window breakers in busses/trains/everywhere you need something similar to that. Maybe weld sharp spike on to that hammer. I think you couldn't break those with normal large hammer, car windows with tempered glass are already surprisingly sturdy, hammer just bounces back.

[gxti]

As if this idea needed more problems with it, vandalism is clearly enough to sink it. Anything that can be destroyed will be. Some yahoo who got his license revoked for drunk driving will use Redneck Engineering to destroy as many as possible as revenge.

[AG6QR]

Tempered glass breaks easiest with sharp object with small area and big impact.

You sound like you're describing tire chains or perhaps studded snow tires.

[mtdoc]

This thing has gone viral.

Today I was helping to teach an introductory robotics class at my son's elementary school. At the beginning of the class one of the 4th graders wanted to share something that he was excited about.  You guessed it - SOLAR FREAKIN ROADWAYS!

He had learned about this in a earlier class. Several other students jumped in explaining what they new about it as well.

You know your campaign is a success when you've got elementary students talking about your indegogo project.

They're now up to 1.6 million dollars raised.

Yeah marketing...

[Legit-Design]

$1,618,816USD
RAISED OF $1,000,000 GOAL
162%  22 days left

22 days left 

Few days ago this had few days left. Now they extended it? Why cant this be over and done already. 
I guess more people need to part with their money before this is over.
I didn't know you could extend indiegogo campaign.

Maybe if they got 2 Billion this would have some chance of producing something useful. Now it's just using current technology and promising all kinds of trendy things. Why do you need wireless communications on something that is going to be wired up and installed permanently. It sounds cool for people but that's it.

[EEVblog]

ThunderfOOt has got a debunking video coming up on this soon. Should be funny.

[EEVblog]

For those who haven't seen the hype video:

[AndyC_772]

A glass road surface?

Really?

I'd love to see whoever came up with that idea ride a motorcycle round a corner on one. Preferably with a couple of years' worth of oily deposits and/or in the rain.

[GK]

Why is anyone even arguing over this? It's just a load of BS  That freaking retarded video is 7 minutes of my life I won't get back.

ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............................

[corrado33]

So they're heated to remove snow... I guess that deals with "plows will tear these apart".

Answer me this...

What happens when a lot of snow falls quickly, sits on the road, blocks all of the sunlight? Or what happens when snow falls at night? Especially since during the wintertime solar panels aren't nearly as effective at other times of the year. You mean to tell me that during the wintertime, these panels will produce enough energy to not only heat themselves, but also produce energy? Even with a lower amount of solar energy?  Sure, if they get cleared off they'll absorb a lot of the sun's IR energy and pretty much stay heated that way, but if it's snowing, or cloudy? I don't think so.

As for solar "freakin'" sports courts? I'd love to see someone try to play hockey on that stuff, or even anything with wheels or a small ball. Basketball might be ok, but I can't imagine there'd be much traction on it. (With shoes.) I'd imagine you'd get some really weird bounces with any type of small ball (tennis, ball hockey, street hockey) etc.

Kickstarter/whatever other site has mainly become a joke for me. Most of the projects I see are basically scams in one way or another to get ignorant people to fund stuff that looks cool but will never have a chance of working. Even if the scam itself is unintentional (as in the case of a naive project leader thinking he can do something when in reality he can't), they're still scams nonetheless.

[miguelvp]

Actually the heated stuff is answered, the cells are connected to the grid and at night they consume electricity since they have no storage.

So that's one of the least of their problems.

People seem to keep throwing money at them, so for example now they have to make the thank you video and name 7,796 people in the video and keep it posted in their website.

Then 622 individual videos thanking them individually. Hopefully those are done while they are raising the money, since they are supposed to send them within 24 hours.

[corrado33]

Actually the heated stuff is answered, the cells are connected to the grid and at night they consume electricity since they have no storage.

I figured as much. Seems like it'd take quite a bit of energy to melt the snow off of roadways. (I live in montana, I deal with snow... often...)

[nitro2k01]

Yep, it's decidedly a stupid idea. But on a different note, why does he pronounce asphalt as ashphalt? 

[Legit-Design]

Just about everything they do is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.

Lets take that FRICKIN' tractor

They claim it's so durable it can even take a tractor!
Tractors are meant to go on fields, fields can get soggy and muddy. In best cases you will be up to your knees deep in mud on fields, tractor will just keep going. Tractors have big surface area on their wheels which supports it and puts the pressure down evenly. Yes the wheels are also designed for traction but traction alone is not going to keep them "afloat".

[Bored@Work]

What happens when a lot of snow falls quickly, sits on the road, blocks all of the sunlight? Or what happens when snow falls at night? Especially since during the wintertime solar panels aren't nearly as effective at other times of the year. You mean to tell me that during the wintertime, these panels will produce enough energy to not only heat themselves, but also produce energy? Even with a lower amount of solar energy?  Sure, if they get cleared off they'll absorb a lot of the sun's IR energy and pretty much stay heated that way, but if it's snowing, or cloudy? I don't think so.

There is more fun. Lets say they manage to melt the snow. Lets say lots of snow. So they have lots of water. What happens with the water? It freezes near the roadside, where the heating ends, creating all sorts of ice sculpture. You end up with clean roads, decorated by hard slippery ice.

Kickstarter/whatever other site has mainly become a joke for me. Most of the projects I see are basically scams in one way or another to get ignorant people to fund stuff that looks cool but will never have a chance of working. Even if the scam itself is unintentional (as in the case of a naive project leader thinking he can do something when in reality he can't), they're still scams nonetheless.

Pssst. You are not supposed to say that loud. People want to believe in the crowdfunding bullshit, and conman happily take their money. Interestingly, the crowdfunding fanboys on the forum here got a lot more quiet recently. Probably reality finally sunk in.

[johansen]

Simply Isn't sufficient energy available to keep roadways free of ice, except on the most traveled freeways.

Semi trucks run their tires at up to 120 psi, that's the most i've heard of. 90 psi is typical for lots of rigs, 60 psi for smaller trucks. 25 to 35 psi for small vehicles
tractors run at 5 to 20 psi.
road wear follows axle weight to the fourth power, and is linear with axle pressure.. afaik, might be pressure squared or something. read wikipedia lol.

driving on tempered glass gives me the shivers...

[ChrisW]

ThunderfOOt has got a debunking video coming up on this soon. Should be funny.

[SeanB]

Brother in law used to work for a brick maker. They delivered a load to a building site, where they had just laid the new tar road. The driver dry steered the ERF truck to reverse, and turned out 4 neat divots of the fresh tar. Then reversed and planted them back in the road in a new place. Dry steered again and took another 4 out. 12.5 tons per front axle, and 22 tons per rear axle. Front single tyre, rear dual tyre. Imagine that load on a glass tile and going off the edge.

[Sionyn]

they took 20 mediocre ideas and implemented them in an awkward context as a gimmick. Thereby they created a product so awkward that the ideas went from mediocre to straight-up bad, glass roads i mean really

they claim to solve all the world's problems was enough to set off my skeptic sense  .
Thinking it through at any length makes it pretty clear that this is a silly idea.

[Stonent]

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/solar-roadways/30/

[djacobow]

So glad to find this thread and see this video. I have a crush on Thunderf00t now. I've been fighting an uphill debunking war on this stupid idea on Facebook for weeks now.

ThunderfOOt has got a debunking video coming up on this soon. Should be funny.

[vtkkorhanjoh]

No wonder they did it on IndieGoGo, the website has more than enough loopholes and legal disclaimers than what is necessary to just run away with the money and live of the rent for the remainder of your life. The Mu optics thermal imager, Luctim, etc. are great examples of people exploiting gullible schmucks by the use of fancy words and promises, while being devoid of any foundation in reality or technological feasibility.

[miguelvp]

No wonder they did it on IndieGoGo, the website has more than enough loopholes and legal disclaimers than what is necessary to just run away with the money and live of the rent for the remainder of your life. The Mu optics thermal imager, Luctim, etc. are great examples of people exploiting gullible schmucks by the use of fancy words and promises, while being devoid of any foundation in reality or technological feasibility.

The thing is, that they don't have to run away with the money, they are selling T-shirts, coffee mugs, bumper stickers, digital thank you videos, hats, canvas shopping bags, collar pendants, custom photoshopped images of your road. name engraving on their lot and glass hexagons. Sure they can deliver that.

Edit: the only working thing they have to deliver based on their tech is 9 out of 100 7 inch working models at $10k a pop. If the real ones only give 36 Watt/hr the little 7 inch ones can't give more than 10 Watt/hr probably way less than that.

[deth502]

great video. many of the things i had first thought when i watched it were addressed, along with a few other things i hadnt considered. one thing i didnt see addressed is batteries if you want to use a solar powered led at night. that would likely be the single most important point in establishing the lifespan of the electronics (not counting the road surface)

and i didnt read the other thread as the title gave me a "positive" vibe, and from teh first time i saw the video, i had no positive feelings about this whole idea. (well, i can see one or 2 good points, but nothing to justify the time and cost)

[TheBorg]

Just about everything they do is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.

Lets take that FRICKIN' tractor

They claim it's so durable it can even take a tractor!
Tractors are meant to go on fields, fields can get soggy and muddy. In best cases you will be up to your knees deep in mud on fields, tractor will just keep going. Tractors have big surface area on their wheels which supports it and puts the pressure down evenly. Yes the wheels are also designed for traction but traction alone is not going to keep them "afloat".

If you live anywhere near agriculture, you know that that isn't a real tractor. More like a lawn mower.
This is a real tractor!

[staxquad]

paved road is $1.89 per square foot
solar is $10,000 $69 per square foot

solar is 5,280 36 times more expensive, it's unjustifiable as a public expense (if it's a private expense, go ahead and waste the money, who cares)

"The biggest gap in funding is in surface transportation, in other words roads and bridges, which will need a whopping $846 billion."  Can't even do that because the USA is broke, more than $15 trillion in debt, they budget for military and "screw everything else" like infrastructure, education, social security, health, etc.

"The total cost to redo America’s roadways with Solar Roadways would be $56 trillion — or about four times the country’s national debt."

fantasy for idiots

[AG6QR]

Just about everything they do is wrong. Wrong wrong wrong on so many levels.

Lets take that FRICKIN' tractor

They claim it's so durable it can even take a tractor!
Tractors are meant to go on fields, fields can get soggy and muddy. In best cases you will be up to your knees deep in mud on fields, tractor will just keep going. Tractors have big surface area on their wheels which supports it and puts the pressure down evenly. Yes the wheels are also designed for traction but traction alone is not going to keep them "afloat".

If you live anywhere near agriculture, you know that that isn't a real tractor. More like a lawn mower.

The tractor in the solar roadways demonstration appears to be a John Deere 3032e, or very nearly so.  That model weighs 2175 lbs., or 986 kg. 

That's considerably less than a Mini Cooper, nevermind a full-sized family car, or a large semi tractor-trailer freight hauling truck.

Consider this: virtually any lawn can handle being driven over once at low speed by a light tractor.  But try driving big freight rigs at high traffic densities over your lawn at freeway speeds for 20 years, and see how well the grass holds up.

[miguelvp]

paved road is $1.89 per square foot
solar is $10,000 per square foot

That's a bit exaggerated, the $10,000 for the 7inch working model as a souvenir for the pledge, it is not the final cost, but yeah, I agree with you on the fantasy for idiots remark

[staxquad]

paved road is $1.89 per square foot
solar is $10,000 per square foot

That's a bit exaggerated, the $10,000 for the 7inch working model as a souvenir for the pledge, it is not the final cost, but yeah, I agree with you on the fantasy for idiots remark

"Back in 2010, Scott Brusaw estimated a cost of $10,000 for a 12-foot-by-12-foot segment of Solar Roadway, or around $70 per square foot; asphalt, on the other hand, is somewhere around $3 to $15, depending on the quality and strength of the road."

oops, made a boobie

it's $69.44 per square foot ($4,399,718 per lane mile)

(I got "paved road is $1.89 per square foot" from "$120,000 per lane mile")

[Gallymimus]

+1 for Indiescamgo!!!!

[Legit-Design]

ThunderfOOt has got a debunking video coming up on this soon. Should be funny.

Wasn't as funny as I though it would be. I think little too smart for stupid people, maybe that was the point. Be sure to like and comment everyone!

[Bored@Work]

No wonder they did it on IndieGoGo,

Kickstarter is as bad. No one responsible for anything, except the backers to pony up the money. The whole idea of crowdfunding is fundamentally flawed. It is not surprising criminals are attracted to places where stupid people voluntarily give up their money in exchange for nothing more than a dog and pony show.

[PlainName]

"The total cost to redo America’s roadways with Solar Roadways would be $56 trillion — or about four times the country’s national debt."

Where does it say you have to do every inch of every road? Surely even dimbos will pick and choose the most cost effective stretches, i.e. the bits that are most likely to provide power. Do them as the road wears out - which is when you have to spend money on them anyway - and it doesn't cost as much as you think it does.

ThunderfOOt has got a debunking video

Pardon me for being distinctly under-impressed. Someone should do a debunking video of that one. For instance, he rabbits on about having HV lines along every road to scoop up this solar power, completely ignoring the way power is sent the other way (which he even shows). No, you won't have 444kV lines running next to every road; you would  have LV stuff feeding into up-converters placed periodically, which eventually feed into the backbone. That is, the reverse of how power gets to your house from the power station.

But... hey, we already have that power stuff getting to the house, so we don't need to replicate everything for power going the other way. Indeed, if it's fed in locally in can be used locally, no?

That's just one simple example of how this 'debunking' video is so full of the exact same thing it's allegedly debunking that it's just not funny, not relevant, etc. If you're taken in and think it a good wheeze, you are just being gullible and wilfully uncritical. The same, in fact, as those investors you laugh at for fronting over 1.5m spondilucks.

The solar road is a rubbish idea right enough (no, it is a cool idea, but completely impractical back in reality). But when you can spot holes in debunking videos they have the opposite effect to what's desired, and the road starts to look good in comparison.

[fcb]

Wouldn't it be (alot) cheaper to lay piping in the black-top and use a heat-pump to extract energy, it might cool it a bit, could work in reverse to de-ice the road, lower maintenance than PV, more compatible with existing road-laying equipment etc...

[corrado33]

"The total cost to redo America’s roadways with Solar Roadways would be $56 trillion — or about four times the country’s national debt."

Where does it say you have to do every inch of every road? Surely even dimbos will pick and choose the most cost effective stretches, i.e. the bits that are most likely to provide power. Do them as the road wears out - which is when you have to spend money on them anyway - and it doesn't cost as much as you think it does.

etc. etc.

While that would make sense, that's not what the project planners were saying, so in that right, he DID debunk what they were saying. And, making the obvious assumption that the most effective roads would not be in the north (where they get snow), then why would the project creators be talking about heated roadways?

Yes, there were lots of holes in his video as well. Like making the assumption that they wouldn't get massive bulk discounts on the glass. But most of the other issues he brought up were true. Traction, wear, paneled roads, LED visibility, dirt, efficiency of solar panels, power to melt snow etc. Have you ever driven on a brick road? I have, they become non-flat extremely quickly and they almost always have massive valleys in them where the tires usually sit (not to mention they're loud as hell.) Ever heard of noise pollution?

As for the power up conversion, please, explain your reasoning. He made it pretty clear.

Underground power wiring is expensive.
Without up conversion, huge power losses.
Lots more hardware needed. (With your plan, how many up converters would be needed?)
The most efficient place to put these panels would NOT be in neighborhoods or cities (where people live, where the power infrastructure is already there.) It'd be on the wide open highways that get sun ALL day and don't have shadows on them.

How far can you take the power without the large HV lines without losing too much of it? If you don't want to use the HV lines, then that would limit these panels to within X number of miles from a major down-converter/people's homes. Again, debunking what the project creators said.

Any one of the things he mentioned is good enough to trash this project. Just because he didn't spend exorbitant amounts of time debunking EVERY ONE down to the last word doesn't mean they aren't true. This project is a joke, and the fact that people are funding it steers me to believe we have a lot of stupid/gullible people on the internet.

[PlainName]

But most of the other issues he brought up were true.

The point I was trying to make was that it doesn't matter about the true bits because he's lost his credibility from the obviously flaky bits.

[nitro2k01]

But most of the other issues he brought up were true.

The point I was trying to make was that it doesn't matter about the true bits because he's lost his credibility from the obviously flaky bits.

The problem with that point is that it's invalid. If you can discern that something is true using your own logical capability and publicly available knowledge, credibility is a moot point. Credibility only ever enters the picture if there's a claim that you yourself cannot confirm, so you need to take someone else's word for it.

[miguelvp]

Wouldn't it be (alot) cheaper to lay piping in the black-top and use a heat-pump to extract energy, it might cool it a bit, could work in reverse to de-ice the road, lower maintenance than PV, more compatible with existing road-laying equipment etc...

Or N-P junctions under the tarmac to create a Pielter-Seebeck effect, but I'm afraid that both the tubes and the peltier junctions will deteriorate overtime.

Shorting the NP junctions on the base or cracking the top creating an open circuit, you will have to be able to bypass cells, but if you want semiconductor roads why not just lay it on the road directly?.
Same with piping, if they crack you will have to be able to bypass them since it will be expensive to tear it down to fix it.

You will have to find the right climate for these things, for example here in Chicago with the cold winters it just eats up the roads. (specially this past one where they call Chi-Town "Chiberia")

There are other things that are lurking (thermoelectric paint for example) but nothing commercially available just yet and it would be way under photovoltaic in performance but even if it's only 10%, due to the surface increase and ease of use, it would not matter.

Geothermal will make more sense with your pipe idea keeping the roads at the same temperature as 10 feet under or more but they will have to be filled with some gas or liquid that will do the exchange by convection. But no matter what, it's going to be expensive for your average road and expensive to maintain. Geothermal aiding cooling/heating a home is not new either, like living in a cave, cool in summer and warm in winter. There are way better options to save energy that to think about producing more and transporting it.

But to fix the main problem tasked (a road that will pay by itself) we need to make better roads instead of the cheap stuff we are doing now.

Concrete roads will be a good step towards that, more expensive but not as much as laying glass hexagons and it will last longer and easier to repair.

Link (even if it's biased by concrete manufacturer's views)
http://www.rediscoverconcrete.ca/news/an-unprecedented-campaign-a-concrete

[SeanB]

Well, concrete roads laid here in the 1980's are being refurbished mainly by patching small portions that degraded, mostly due to vehicle fires. Other maintenance is redoing joints which have sprung. Tar would have been relaid at least twice in the interim, though the latest method is to mill off a top layer ( up to 400mm in places) and reblend with new tar, rubber crumb ( from scrap tyres granulated in a cryogenic mill) and a little new gravel then relay to the original thickness. Faster and cheaper than concrete, and you can dig up sections for services. The concrete has no cabling running under unless in ducting, or only in large diameter concrete drains that are big enough to work in.

Better would be to make the solar panels in an array held at the side of the road reserve on non breakaway poles that have a support grid for the solar panels. That way you use the road reserve area, and have little to no impediment on load capacity, along with easy access for maintenance and easy cabling. No extra land required, and a lot cheaper to make cells that only have to handle a snow load and survive sun, plus a lot easier to cool, and a ready way to hang LED lighting units for the road, and easy to hold active signage for the road as well.

[abaxas]

Irrespective of this being a terrible idea..

They would make for a cool patio.

[miguelvp]

Well, concrete roads laid here in the 1980's are being refurbished mainly by patching small portions that degraded, mostly due to vehicle fires. Other maintenance is redoing joints which have sprung.

So for 6% more cost than asphalt they lasted 30 years so far. Plus as they claim vehicle efficiency increase on concrete, they seem to have paid by themselves long ago.

[Alexei.Polkhanov]

Irrespective of this being a terrible idea..

They would make for a cool patio.

Exactly. Roadways - prolly not, but I can definitely see how it can be very successful for pedestrian areas in cities, all sort of fancy driveways in front of hotel lobbies etc. I think it is a definite sell if it will come out at right price and easy to install. Perhaps some bridges can use it as pavement especially those with line direction changes etc. I would use it as pavement on top decks of ferries. When I was living in Montreal I noticed that new buildings have installed heated driveways for new buildings. I bet those are not cheap to install and operate already.

[junkie_business]

When I was living in Montreal I noticed that new buildings have installed heated driveways for new buildings. I bet those are not cheap to install and operate already.

This guy on YouTube says his driveway melter costs about the same as heating three or four houses. But hey, there's only 2.65 million miles of paved road in the United States. I'm sure it gets cheaper the more you have, like ordering components - right?   

[Legit-Design]

Maybe solar roadways is going to invent some fancy new carbon nanotubes ultradurable surface that is going to be really cheap and will automatically repels any water, show or ice on the surface. It includes the solar absorbing surface on it's own. So it's going to be basically superior asphalt and is going to generate electricity from the sun and is going to keep itself clean. Who wouldn't want that? Or maybe the could include some parts of it on the asphalt mix depending how much they want the effect. Less parts of carbonmagic nanotubes and you get less energy, more for maximum energy production.

[AndyC_772]

If we're going to have an active road with a massive energy distribution network built in, and which (apparently) isn't subject to any form of quantitative analysis, I want a maglev car to go with it.

Floating, frictionless electric car powered by the sun? Yes please!

[junkie_business]

If we're going to have an active road with a massive energy distribution network built in, and which (apparently) isn't subject to any form of quantitative analysis, I want a maglev car to go with it.

Floating, frictionless electric car powered by the sun? Yes please!

Jetpacks, man.

Jetpacks.

[Legit-Design]

If we're going to have an active road with a massive energy distribution network built in, and which (apparently) isn't subject to any form of quantitative analysis, I want a maglev car to go with it.
Floating, frictionless electric car powered by the sun? Yes please!

"Where we are going we don't need roads."   

What happened to flying cars? I remember when there was some clip rolling on the TV "In the year 2000 we will have flying cars everywhere". Makes sense to have flying cars since roads are now producing electricity and are covered with fragile glass. Car would create shadows on the roads and would make the surface dirty and break it. So makes sense to have flying cars since solar roads create so much problems which need to be solved.

[Legit-Design]

Apparently, they think their solar freakin road panels can be dropping into Afghanistan, because they will have retractable parachutes, satellite dishes, spy cameras, infrared arrays, solar panels, LEDs, roadways. Lets just hope someone doesnt give them, legs guns, AI and a intense desire to kill genetically inferior non-solar based lifeforms!

Military applications of solar roadways..... so stupid its funny!
http://solarroadways.com/military.shtml

Hmm NASA could drop these to mars... so when humans go there we would already have roads and power... also mars rovers would have zero chance of getting stuck because they could drive on roads. 

[miguelvp]

Edit: video quote removed

Apparently, they think their solar freakin road panels can be dropping into Afghanistan, because they will have retractable parachutes, satellite dishes, spy cameras, infrared arrays, solar panels, LEDs, roadways. Lets just hope someone doesnt give them, legs guns, AI and a intense desire to kill genetically inferior non-solar based lifeforms!

Military applications of solar roadways..... so stupid its funny!
...

Hmm NASA could drop these to mars... so when humans go there we would already have roads and power... also mars rovers would have zero chance of getting stuck because they could drive on roads. 

I love the image of the SR-71 in the military application page, retired in 1998!

[Legit-Design]

http://solarroadways.com/military.shtml

I love the image of the SR-71 in the military application page, retired in 1998!

What would be even better is SR-71 covered with, you guessed it, SOLAR ROADWAYS!  And since we have already thrown physics and all reason out of the window, we can fix the SR-71 Blackbirds biggest problems like cost and fuel use and by running it from pure electricity generated by sun. If they needed more power they could just fly it closer to sun. After the flight it could land on airport with solar roadways instead of tarmac, airports are awesome place to put those panels since they are generally kept clean and clear of anything that might cause problems to airplanes.
 

[miguelvp]

http://solarroadways.com/military.shtml

I love the image of the SR-71 in the military application page, retired in 1998!

What would be even better is SR-71 covered with, you guessed it, SOLAR ROADWAYS!  And since we have already thrown physics and all reason out of the window, we can fix the SR-71 Blackbirds biggest problems like cost and fuel use and by running it from pure electricity generated by sun. If they needed more power they could just fly it closer to sun.

I remember hearing that the SR-71 will leak fuel on take off and when in high altitudes it will seal the fuel tanks due to expansion of the metal or something like that. Solar freaking roadways will so much help not waste that fuel!

[Legit-Design]

http://solarroadways.com/clearingthefreakinair.shtml

 

This is so stupid why bother trying to answer their arguments.

I DID IT ANYWAYS 
(I was bored)

False Claim: We picked a really stupid place to put solar panels

You did pick a stupid place, just because some problems can be avoided by creating more problems and steering away from original idea, doesn't make it viable. The cost is going to be astronomical.
You are clearly missing the point, please stop trying to avoid the subject.
Best place for solar panels is to put them somewhere where they get the most sun. Usually solar panels are located on the roof of a house and are not covered by glass or dirt or laid flat. Solar panels pay themselves back faster if they are given best chance of success. Best place for solar panels is not on dirty roads or under cars during the time they would generate the most power. How do you debunk that argument? Like many others have already pointed out, there are still lots of better places to put solar panels.

False Claim: Solar Roadways is going to cost $60 trillion dollars

I agree, it's probably going to cost more.
You say you have no idea how much it's going to cost. Well it's going to cost too much and same solar cells are put to better use almost anywhere else. You could at least do some rough calculations how much those same solar cells would produce power when placed in a optimal way. Just having good idea and not doing the work required is hardly worth 2M$ you are getting.

Years ago, when we were working on our very first prototype, we estimated that if we could make our 12' x 12' panels for under $10K, then we could break even with asphalt. That was mere speculation and had no relevance to the cost of even our first prototype, let alone our second.

False Claim: Asphalt roads are cheap and maintainable

How much your roads are going to cost and replace when those tempered glass panels will shatter? Asphalt roads are not cheap but cost of your solar roadways is ASTRONOMICAL.
Yes roads are expensive to maintain, but you still don't have any idea how many times more your solar roadways are going to cost maintain. I know the answer it's going to be several times more. PROVE ME WRONG SHOW US YOUR CALCULATIONS. The cost of those solar roadways is going to be something astronomical.

False Claim: we can't afford to heat roads

The claim was about the sheer power needed to heat the roads to keep them warm. Instead you are missing the point, good job. Show us your calculations? When you start your calculations you will see who was right. Oh, you are not going to do any calculations until you get the money? That is an EXCELLENT choice.

False Claim: Glass is softer than asphalt

The primary use (70%) of asphalt/bitumen is in road construction, where it is used as the glue or binder mixed with aggregate particles to create asphalt concrete. Its other main uses are for bituminous waterproofing products, including production of roofing felt and for sealing flat roofs.[6]

Asphalt is used as a binder of glue for the "aggregate particles". You saw those particles which thunderf00t used to scratch that really hard tempered glass. Those are the same particles that are used on roads. Asphalt is used to glue those together to form surface for car tires. Maybe you should make stones and sand and everything illegal so no one will be able to scratch that tempered glass? How are you really going to solve this problem? Invent that magical tempered glass which doesn't yet exist, which doesn't scratch? That same glass is breakable. Please see thunderf00t's first video about the pogo stick that is able to jump to the moon. Why don't you make that happen instead?

False Claim: The shadow a single bird can take out an entire solar array - let alone a car!
Microinverters allow solar panels to act independently of one another.

How much is that going to increase the cost of those roadways tiles? Just go ahead do some basic calculations. I just did basic approximation of this it's going to cost ALOT. It's going to double the price of each tile. Prove me wrong. Do some basic research into those microinveters? I can tell you now adding more cost to you tiles is not going to make them cheaper.

False Claim: You can't see LEDs in direct sunlight

Good thing you solved this by using MOAR POWAAAH (more power). Ok, you can solve this by using more power, but do some basic calculations first, you can't with current technology increase brightness without using more power.

Most traffic signals today are made with LEDs.

Can you see the shadow on that picture you chose? Those leds are shaded for a reason. How are your solar roadways going to work if you have to put your leds in them to shade so people can see them?

And what about all of those digital (LED) billboards we see all over town?
How long has Times Square been lit up with LEDs?

Those billboards use KILOWATTS of electricity, I think some of them were watercooled to take the heat away from them. THEY USE POWER ALOT OF POWER.

That is very easily corrected by substituting with higher intensity LEDs during future prototyping/production.

POWEEEER, UNLIMITED POWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

False Claim: We're attempting to use recycled colored glass to make new clear glass

Still it looks like you are letting people think that?

We wonder about people who reflexively dismiss our concept without trying to understand it, or go on public forums to attack us.

Truth hurts. Taking money from people with false pretenses and promises is just wrong. Even if they are stupid people. I understand your concept, it's cool as a concept. But this is still going to need technology breakthroughs to make it feasible. Best thing would be some material that has exact same properties as asphalt roads have and are going to be comparable in price. Your prices are going to be astronomical and usage of current solar cell technology makes it unpractical. You are taking peoples money by misleading them and letting them think something that is not going to happen. It's not going to happen anytime soon unless that magical new material is first discovered and then put to use.

Please bring to our attention any other uninformed arguments that you see being used repeatedly and we'll debunk them here and on our FAQ page

Please debunk my arguments.

There are just so many things against this. Where are the several inventions needed to make this happen?

[EEVblog]

I was contemplating doing a video on this, but there is just so much BS in all this it's hard to know where to start. 

[PlainName]

Please debunk my arguments.

I'm bored, so...

there are still lots of better places to put solar panels.

Indeed. But the name of the game is not to generate solar power per se. It is to have better roads. In that context, it doesn't matter that a better place for generation might be up in the air, or that cars will shadow it, or any of the other stuff. Think of is as cheaper asphalt.

Sure, it is currently more expensive asphalt (possibly - not done the sums, but roads ain't cheap). But the idea is that you will get some payback through solar power, which will just knock a few cents off the total bill (which, hopefully, would be cheaper than current roads). That's all. They're not looking for the very best efficiency ever obtained from solar panels.

Additionally, their road (of which the PV stuff is just a part, not the whole of it) incorporates ducts for power and comms and run-off, etc. All stuff that current roads have to be dug up for if you want better broadband or whatever. Build a new house in the middle of nowhere and the cost of hooking it up to services should be cheaper because they won't have to dig out the countryside to get the cables and pipes to it.

Ah, sod it. Lost the will to live already

[Legit-Design]

I was contemplating doing a video on this, but there is just so much BS in all this it's hard to know where to start. 

What about doing it the same way Solar power hope episode, or the Airnergy episode. Why people think solar/free energy is the best thing ever. Doing worst case and best case calculations, and return of investment calculations and how this design is flawed. Maybe could take part in the research, like thunderf00t did. Do some back of the envelope calculations about the microinverters they are going to use for their solar panels. So when a leaf lands on their solar brick what would be a cost effective way to configure the cells to always provide maximum output.

Thanks to our funding from Indiegogo, we are now going to hire a team of engineers this summer, who will help us make tweaks to the design, streamline production and get costs down.

What would the first problem those engineers will tackle? How much those huge pcb panels are going to cost. How much could they possibly get the cost down? They are planning to do wireless communications on each panels so they can communicate when roads are otherwise destroyed. Also how hot might the panels get during summer, probably same temperature as normal black road surface. And how it affects solar panel production. Also those LEDs that will be visible during the brightest sun worst case scenario. How many lumens are required and how much heat they will put out. The glass traps heat and solar panels and high power leds will heat up and just keep heating up.

http://solarroadways.com/faq.shtml#faqClean

and we learned that the clean panel produced less than 9-percent more power than the dirt covered panel. So even if we find that it's difficult to keep the panels clean, it may not be the issue many expect.

9-percent more power if panel is cleaned--> clearly a non issue since we have so much power. I think if I went outside now... and run my hand on road surface... palm of my hand will be black afterwards. I don't think roads stay clean for optimum solar power production.

Another thing we learned - through experimentation - was that our 1/2-inch textured glass surface reduced the amount of energy produced by solar cells by 11.12-percent.

so first we have dirty roads therefore dirty solar panels... and on top of that our opaque glass further decreases the energy production. Conversion losses? Boost converters aren't that efficient. Transmission losses and what else?

Indeed. But the name of the game is not to generate solar power per se. It is to have better roads. In that context, it doesn't matter that a better place for generation might be up in the air, or that cars will shadow it, or any of the other stuff. Think of is as cheaper asphalt.

Sure, it is currently more expensive asphalt (possibly - not done the sums, but roads ain't cheap). But the idea is that you will get some payback through solar power, which will just knock a few cents off the total bill (which, hopefully, would be cheaper than current roads). That's all. They're not looking for the very best efficiency ever obtained from solar panels.

Additionally, their road (of which the PV stuff is just a part, not the whole of it) incorporates ducts for power and comms and run-off, etc. All stuff that current roads have to be dug up for if you want better broadband or whatever. Build a new house in the middle of nowhere and the cost of hooking it up to services should be cheaper because they won't have to dig out the countryside to get the cables and pipes to it.

What about getting more payback faster with solar panels in most optimum way on the side of the road. Solar panels are expensive, it's even more expensive to put them in the roads. And becomes even more expensive when that tiny bit of power needs to be converted and put in the grid. And they are suppose to have high power leds which chew up lot of power and some places need to be on all the time. Also they are adding wireless communications and...


This whole thing is really cleverly designed. People have to lower themselves into that level. Then they can just say, "you are stupid just thinkin that". We were thinking about something AWESOME and really smart and awesome but you are so stupid for thinking we were directly saying and displaying what you think we were.   

It's like arguing with idiots... they drag you into their level and beat you with experience! 

Are these green/save the earth/free energy project suppose to be sacred or something? Because those defending them take them so religiously and you can't say dinosaurs existed because the holy bible tells us exactly how old the earth is so don't come showing any FALSE FAKE evidence? You cant say anything bad about us because we are trying save the earth (and start by taking some money).

[CanadianAvenger]

Indeed. But the name of the game is not to generate solar power per se. It is to have better roads. In that context, it doesn't matter that a better place for generation might be up in the air, or that cars will shadow it, or any of the other stuff. Think of is as cheaper asphalt.

It will NEVER be cheaper than asphalt. Asphalt is the one of most heavily recycled materials in the world, and is orders of magnitude cheaper to put down than these will ever be. Think about the process to install vs the solar roadways panels. Asphalt requires a hard packed base [concrete is often used on heavily traveled highways] and then the asphalt is literally dumped and roll packed on top of the base. Solar roadways will require a concrete base with a pattern of bolts to be installed at roughly 1 foot intervals. Then the panels, and wiring, will need to be manually laid down and bolted in place. While this may be able to be somewhat automated, it will never be as fast as putting down asphalt, meaning the installation costs will be higher.

From a maintenance standpoint, replacing a single tile is probably cheaper, and better than filling a pot-hole, however, the concrete foundation is still subject to all the same problems as roads today, and will be subject to the same repair costs [if not higher].

Sure, it is currently more expensive asphalt (possibly - not done the sums, but roads ain't cheap). But the idea is that you will get some payback through solar power, which will just knock a few cents off the total bill (which, hopefully, would be cheaper than current roads). That's all. They're not looking for the very best efficiency ever obtained from solar panels.

you will never get payback on the panels. They will never generate enough power over their lifetime to offset their own cost. By lying flat, they are only generating a fraction of the energy they could. And by being a roadway they will be subject to excessive wear, greatly shortening their lifespan.

Additionally, their road (of which the PV stuff is just a part, not the whole of it) incorporates ducts for power and comms and run-off, etc. All stuff that current roads have to be dug up for if you want better broadband or whatever. Build a new house in the middle of nowhere and the cost of hooking it up to services should be cheaper because they won't have to dig out the countryside to get the cables and pipes to it.

But the cost of that duct is very high, and could be done today, without the added expense and inefficiency of the solar roadway beside it. [Note that these "ducts" already do exist in most cities in the form of tunnels under the road that are accessed through the man holes]

[PlainName]

What about getting more payback faster with solar panels in most optimum way on the side of the road.

Then it is not about roads; it is about solar panels, and by the way we could put them alongside roads.

It will NEVER be cheaper than asphalt.

Roads aren't just the cost of asphalt, otherwise we would pave the world for two bob. Similarly, houses aren't just the cost of bricks.

Think about the process to install vs the solar roadways panels.

I have no idea. What I do know is that when I make something on the bench it is orders of magnitude more expensive than I can buy it shipped from China, and they probably make it look a whole lot better too. If this were to make it to 'production' I have no doubt the processes involved would be quite different to what we're thinking about now. Maybe they might even pre-fabricate sections and just drop 'em en bloc into a freshly dug hole, a bit like making a Scalectrix track, maybe

the concrete foundation is still subject to all the same problems

Yes, that also occurred to me. Except... if they can heat the roads then they won't have the freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw damage that creates potholes in our current roads, so that's potentially taking a lot of problems away. Would it be cheaper to heat or repair? (metaphorical quesiton: I know your answer already).

However, I don't see how they can use heating to keep the roads unfrozen all the time. They would be churning through a lot of energy to do that.

They will never generate enough power over their lifetime to offset their own cost

Wrong sum. They would need to generate enough to cover the difference between a current road (plus its maintenance over some timescale) and the new road (plus maintenance of the same timescale). If the PV road costs the same to install and maintain (for the sake of argument) then even 1W of PV power for 5 mins once a year is profit.

But the cost of that duct is very high, and could be done today

Why isn't it? One reason may be that a length of duct in isolation is pretty useless, so there's no point in putting any down because it won't lead to anything, so there's no reason to... classic chicken and egg thing. OTOH, PV roads are new and it's likely that ducting will be just part of what it is, so it's the egg being putting in place. Once that's there a chicken will be along soon... It could almost be worth doing on that basis alone: use the PV road idea as the carrier for the real want, which is the ductiing.

But I am just bandying ideas around, and pointing out the same logical flaws in counter- arguments that we complain about in their originals. The massive PCB costs, for instance, are not something to get hung up on. In a production unit, why wouldn't the LEDs be embedded in the glass and then wired up on the normal way? No PCB costs to talk of. It is a stupid argument to hang your hat on for the purpose of showing how stupid they are. There are a lot of things wrong with this project, but the overwhelmingly thoughtless diatribes against it actually makes it look reasonable!

[CanadianAvenger]

the concrete foundation is still subject to all the same problems

Yes, that also occurred to me. Except... if they can heat the roads then they won't have the freeze-thaw-freeze-thaw damage that creates potholes in our current roads, so that's potentially taking a lot of problems away. Would it be cheaper to heat or repair? (metaphorical quesiton: I know your answer already).

However, I don't see how they can use heating to keep the roads unfrozen all the time. They would be churning through a lot of energy to do that.

You'd also have to heat the spillways/ducts as well [until the water could be dumped into a conventional sewer or pond], or the water would quickly re-freeze creating ice jams, eventually leading to an ice-rink instead of a roadway. This is because they are not underground where they would be insulated from the cold air, and heated by the earth around them. Also the heaters would never be able to keep up with a snow-storm. And as you said the energy costs/consumption would be huge for a single winter season... likely far more than the amount of energy the panels would produce over the entire year.

As for the LED's they are pointless, as they would never be bright enough during the day to be seen [the sun is a formidable enemy here, as is the glare on the now glass road surface], making them useless for road markings or any other warning system during the day. They would be useful from dusk till dawn though, but you'd still have to paint lines for daytime.

One more thing about the glass... they claim to have gotten a  government grant and passed the traction and durability requirements... this was for a parking lot where speeds and wear requirements are low... not for a highway where the speeds are much higher [and therefore traction requirement], as are the requirements for durability.

These roads will also be much louder due to the large traction bumps, potentially creating environmental noise problems. It's hard to say how bad it would be, as nobody has tried running a vehicle at highway speeds on it yet.

I guess my bottom line is we have plenty of other, better suited, places to put solar, that would be more cost effective and efficient than the proposed solar roadway. We could still achieve the same energy production with far less area, and resources used [natural and financial]. If you want to build a better roadway then you're better off trying to engineer a new material that is more resistant to the sun, water, and ice than asphalt, while maintaining the same [or better] traction and durability as asphalt [good luck as they are quite competing demands - solve one, and you'll likely magnify another]. Solar Roadways are not the answer here, as they don't actually solve any problems with the current road technology, and are mediocre at best in providing any of the other suggested benefits. Solar Roadways are a solution, in search of a problem.

[PlainName]

You'd also have to heat the spillways/ducts

Not a bit problem if you're already heating the road proper: the ducts have a small surface exposure in comparison, and water coming down there is already not frozen

still have to paint lines for daytime

Yes, and just on general safety grounds, I think. But you also mention glare, and one of the big problems with painted lines is seeing them on a wet road, particularly if the sun is in the wrong place. Maybe LEDs would solve that problem.

And mentioning dusk-to-dawn LEDs, there was a drive around here to replace road reflectors with LED illuminated ones. Some were pretty passive in that they just lit up with the normal reflector colour, but where roads were known to have a problem with black ice they also indicated if the temperature is low enough to be a worry. I think they lit up in response to car headlights to save power, but they extended the driver's view of the road by quite a bit.

Not heard anything about them (or seen any, come to that) for a couple of years so I don't know if there hit some terminal snag. Pretty sure they were powered by a small solar panel on the top.

this was for a parking lot where speeds and wear requirements are low

They say that's what the contract was for, don't they? Hard to argue that it's not what's wanted when it's exactly what was asked for. Not that that's stopped anyone, of course

nobody has tried running a vehicle at highway speeds on it yet.

How about concrete? Personally, I can't see the bumps staying, so if they were just rough surfaces they would be pretty much like existing concrete roads. A section of the motorway near here is concrete and in my old car it was OK if a bit noisy. But in my newer car, with much stiffer suspension, it is terrible! Get the wrong speed and resonance theatens to shake everything to bits. Hell, even at the right speed it threatens to shake every thing to bits, just not quite so quickly.

Solar Roadways are not the answer here

They are not what I would have first thought of. Or, probably, thought of at all. And yet... someone in the transport department thought it worth splashing some serious money to find out. Of course, when they get the results of the experiment they may well decide it's not a direction worth investigating any more. Can't fault them for taking a look, though.

[SeanB]

The LED markers are used here, and do quite a good job at marking the roads. Powered by sunlight on a small solar panel. Not sure how, they would need a panel of over 50% efficiency or at least a lens to concentrate the light on it during the day to get a charge into whatever battery, likely lithium pouches, that you fit into a 75mm diameter package that withstands a 22 ton load from truck tyres running over them. The light is very directional, and lasts at least until midnight, as I tested it once to see how far they stay lit, and it was as far as I could see.  They pulse the light output at around 150Hz, or at least it does not give a noticeable beat with 50Hz mains, and I can still see the flicker. Most of them are unidirectional, only visible from the approach direction, though some  have a 2 colour arrangement with white one way and orange the other way. There are 2 colours in use, a cool white and an orange one, for centre markings and lane edges respectively.

I want to get some to tear down.......

[tvtech]

Hi Sean

Certainly some good to come....interesting idea.

Maybe a start....even the pavements could help here in South Africa...unless people decide to steal that too..

You never know.

tvtech

[SeanB]

Pretty hard to steal something that is fixed into the road surface with Sikaflex. Nothing to get a grip on, and flat with no protrusions and a thick glass front. Plus you would stand out with a pickaxe at night on a main road digging a hole, even the dumbest would think twice at being either run over like cattle or taken out by a gun happy motorist.

[AndyC_772]

The panels would have to be removable in order to be replaced when they inevitably break, though. And people who steal cables really are as dumb as a box of rocks; we had a major telephone outage here in the UK earlier in the year when some moron stole a load of fibre optic cables thinking they were metal...

[echen1024]

The panels would have to be removable in order to be replaced when they inevitably break, though. And people who steal cables really are as dumb as a box of rocks; we had a major telephone outage here in the UK earlier in the year when some moron stole a load of fibre optic cables thinking they were metal...

The most desperate steal high voltage transimission line by throwing a heavy chain across, creating a short, and hoping to remove the cable in time before the chain melts. Needless to say, most die.

[Phaedrus]

Very thorough beat-down of this idiotic scam, Thunderf00t has a knack for pointing out the absurdity of over-hyped nonsense like this.

[Sionyn]

i've lost all faith that these guys had some idea about engineering

There's a lot of false information about Solar Roadways flying around the internet these days and some of it is just SO freakin' wrong that we've created this page to set the record straight dun dun dun

http://solarroadways.com/clearingthefreakinair.shtml

[echen1024]

i've lost all faith that these guys had some idea about engineering

There's a lot of false information about Solar Roadways flying around the internet these days and some of it is just SO freakin' wrong that we've created this page to set the record straight dun dun dun

http://solarroadways.com/clearingthefreakinair.shtml

Oh boy. I love how they choose not to debunk the ones that are valid issues. Note how they point out "Public Forums"

[PlainName]

i've lost all faith that these guys had ...

Just wondering, like: if you don't bother reading anyone elses posts, why should you expect us to read anything you post? This is a forum, you know - there are loads of blogging sites you could use if you want to do write-only grandstanding.

[TommyGunn]

i've lost all faith that these guys had some idea about engineering

There's a lot of false information about Solar Roadways flying around the internet these days and some of it is just SO freakin' wrong that we've created this page to set the record straight dun dun dun

http://solarroadways.com/clearingthefreakinair.shtml

He goes over everything said on that page

[echen1024]

So they want to use it on airport tarmacs... How the hell are they going to meet the stringent traction requirements. An Airbus A380 requires 9000ft+ of runway to take off at MTOW, and the airport Bush IAH (Houston) uses runway 15L for A380s. That runway is 12k feet long. In wet conditions, even landing a plane on the glass surface will be fell, due to the probably awful traction it would provide. And let's not talk about cost. The runway is 1.8e6ft^2. Based on their own claim of $70/sqft, one damn runway is 126,000,000USD. Asphalt, in comparison, costs 14,400,000USD. 8.75 times cheaper. That's not even factoring the additional costs from having to make runways longer due to longer takeoff runs in the rain, as well as greater regulatory issues. The built in LEDs will also NEVER meet the FAA and ICAO requirements for reliability and brightness.

[Legit-Design]

So they want to use it on airport tarmacs... How the hell are they going to meet the stringent traction requirements.

To be fair, I don't remember them ever claiming to use it on airports. (that might have been me shooting at moon) But on the traction issue. They are still claiming it broke the traction testing apparatus. 

[EEVblog]

To be fair, I don't remember them ever claiming to use it on airports.

IIRC yes they did in one of the videos, mentioned a tarmac and showed an airport.

[PlainName]

An Airbus A380 requires 9000ft+ of runway to take off at MTOW

additional costs from having to make runways longer due to longer takeoff runs in the rain

These Airbus thingies... got motors driving the wheels, have they? 

[FrankBuss]

People seem to keep throwing money at them, so for example now they have to make the thank you video and name 7,796 people in the video and keep it posted in their website.

Then 622 individual videos thanking them individually. Hopefully those are done while they are raising the money, since they are supposed to send them within 24 hours.

They will have a lot of work, but it is possible within 24 hours. Currently there are 9,390 people which they need to mention by name in a video. If they need one second per name, it would need about 3 hours. For the $100 claim, currently there are 764 people for which they need to create a 30 second video. That's about 6 hours.

Of course, I think it doesn't make much sense and would be very boring for them to record the videos, but the whole project doesn't make sense, so this is a good match.

And it won't work for roads, that's for sure. But I think it could be a market niche maybe for a garden veranda. The power of the solar cells could drive a water pump, so you have a good feeling that you do something good for the environment And at night you could do some nice light show or games with the pressure sensors for kids. Unfortunately the $10,000 price for a working prototype is ridiculous.

[rob77]

An Airbus A380 requires 9000ft+ of runway to take off at MTOW

additional costs from having to make runways longer due to longer takeoff runs in the rain

These Airbus thingies... got motors driving the wheels, have they? 

Runway length is a valid consideration, but not for the reason you are pushing. It helps, in making them look silly, if you don't make yourself look sillier.

he is right about the runway lenght - how the hell would you brake that giant beast to halt on glass while it's  raining  in case of aborted takeoff ? using glass would need significantly longer runways for both takeoff and landings.

and it's not about the cost of the runway - how would you make them longer ?
"sorry guys, we need to demolish the half of the city to make the runways longer in order to cover them with shitty  glass surface"   

[Legit-Design]

Using ridiculous amount of natural resources to do something totally useless. (light the road mostly) I think that nails it!  Think about all the trees that need to be chopped off to make way for light for these solar roadways. I think thunderf00t needs to make video about the environmental impact of these things. As if everything wasn't already against them. They are claiming to save the planet. In the process they will destroy the planet. Ok it's not their intention to scam people/destroy the planet, but they will inevitably do it if they succeed in what they are doing. Couldn't find the toyota prius battery video on top gear. Why doesn't putting solar panels on something make it magically green. Except when you ask marketing people.

Where will the solar cells to be used be made in? I think in china... powered by coal power plants mostly. How much longer do the solar panels need to be used to offset the CO2 POISON , because they are not being utilized efficiently? The solar power will mostly be used to power leds. Why didn't Solar roadways people already do calculations on this? Having recycled glass 10% in volume in their concrete mix doesn't have much to do with this, even if they like to claim it saves the planet. So we not actually using (wasting) only money to do this, we are wasting natural resources of the earth. Again if I'm wrong about this doing more harm than it does good, correct me!

They can always take their card of "mass producing" and claim it is actually of some use in the future. But they are not claiming to make solar panels any greener they are planning to go into mass production.

[PlainName]

how the hell would you brake that

Not something you nromally consider when talking about take off, hence my jibe.

But on reviewing this I will concede I was a bit nasty about it, so edited my previous post to reflect that.

[echen1024]

We must also think of the environmental impact caused by constructing solar panels.

http://voiceofsandiego.org/2009/02/16/the-not-so-sunny-side-of-solar-panels/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/sep/03/solar-panels-ewaste

How are we going to dispose of the thousands that will inevitably fail annually? What about choosing responsible manufacturers?

Regarding the runways... So they want to use these as almost sort of runway lights. Let us examine the FAA spec for runway lighting.
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentNumber/150_5345-46D
First of all, you're going to have issues with controlling them to be uni/bi directional... and then viewing in direct sunlight is also another major issue, since there are no damn trees or canopies on top of runways.

[max_torque]

I really have no idea how this thing is still going tbh.  It falls down on so many levels i just don't get it?

1) Cost comparable to a tarmac road:  Last time i checked, a tonne of tarmac in the uk (in bulk, like you need to make a road) cost around £15, and would allow you to surface something like 5m squared of road surface.  And yet, the cost of a single mile of  3lane motorway in the UK is around £30M.  What that tells you is the raw material cost is NOT really the critical factor in deciding the costs.  No, it is more to do with the cost of buying the land, paying for all the people and machines to build the road, and then installing all the infrastructure necessary to make it function (signage etc).  So how, can a "solar" roadway be cheaper, when it has more expensive raw materials?  Their site says something like "a 12x12m section of roadway will cost under $10k and hence be comparable to a conventional one"?  Well, come on, lets see your numbers, and lets see a proper cost break down too.

2) Maintenance:  How can it be less expensive to maintain a road made up of complicated and potentially fragile solar panels, compared to one made up of inert (and cheap) Tarmac?  I just can't see it.  Then you get to the costs involved with the labour to maintain those panels.  Literally anyone can stick some tarmac in a hole and pack it down a bit.  Hence you can pay them a small amount of money to do so.  But to replace and repair critical items like solar pannels, with things like high voltage safety etc and potentially complex devices such as inverters or grid tie systems?  Nope, that's gone be a whole heap more expensive.

3) Amount of power generated:  If you sat down an came up with the worst potential layout and architecture for a solar array, i would suggest, that other then putting them "indoors", a solar roadway would be it.  No mention of the effects of the angle of incidence of the sun / effect of dirty or damaged panels etc.


4) Heated roads:  WHY?  Unless you heat ALL roads, people will still need to drive with care and fit the appropriate tyres etc.  Otherwise you'll turn off the nice clean heated road onto a smaller road at speed and just crash there instead.

5) Active road illumination: WHY? The road of the future is a road on which automated cars can drive.  Like the Google car etc.  They don't need stupid LED lights to show them the way to go!

6) Co-efficient of friction and wear for a "solar" roadway as compared to a conventional asphalt surface when being driven over by conventional vehicle tyres.  No mention of this, just "yeah, glass is really hard like" or some such thing.  Road surfaces are a mandated item, and there friction, noise, environmental performance and wear is all specified by the highways department.  Tests exist to characterise these factors, and yet i see no data for these solar roadways?

So, what we have here is the perfect combination of the WORST OF BOTH WORLDS.  I.e., we have a terrible solar generation system combined with a poor road system!

The current limit with solar generation is NOT the space in which to put it (hint, go on Google Earth and see how much of the world is covered by roads, compared to how much by either a)nothing or b)houses/buildings etc all of which have nice elevated (and angled!) roofs on which to mount conventional panels)

[Legit-Design]

3) Amount of power generated:  If you sat down an came up with the worst potential layout and architecture for a solar array, i would suggest, that other then putting them "indoors", a solar roadway would be it.  No mention of the effects of the angle of incidence of the sun / effect of dirty or damaged panels etc.

I was thinking of permanently installing a solar panel under a car. Just to demonstrate how much a solar parking lot would generate in worst case scenario. And how it would affect the return of investment. Maybe if I installed it pointing down we could make all the roads reflective to make it actually generate some power. Making all roads reflective would actually cost much, but then we could have cars with solar panels under them to power them? This could work as replacement for induction coils. Since induction charging for electric cars is not there yet, so we could use light instead. Also at night we could turn on the leds embedded in the roads to make it go. Other way would be to make a car out of glass... roof out of glass (we already have these) and floorboard out of glass and have the sun shine directly through the whole car and power the solar panel under it.

[rob77]

3) Amount of power generated:  If you sat down an came up with the worst potential layout and architecture for a solar array, i would suggest, that other then putting them "indoors", a solar roadway would be it.  No mention of the effects of the angle of incidence of the sun / effect of dirty or damaged panels etc.

I was thinking of permanently installing a solar panel under a car. Just to demonstrate how much a solar parking lot would generate in worst case scenario. And how it would affect the return of investment. Maybe if I installed it pointing down we could make all the roads reflective to make it actually generate some power. Making all roads reflective would actually cost much, but then we could have cars with solar panels under them to power them? This could work as replacement for induction coils. Since induction charging for electric cars is not there yet, so we could use light instead. Also at night we could turn on the leds embedded in the roads to make it go. Other way would be to make a car out of glass... roof out of glass (we already have these) and floorboard out of glass and have the sun shine directly through the whole car and power the solar panel under it.

and let's not forget the pedestrians ! we should make the sidewalks reflective and use solar panels on the bottom of shoes to charge mobile phones. there is 6 billion people on Earth... you know what a hell of a surface area we could get placing solar panels on the underside of 6 billion pairs of shoes ? maaan...  that would be awesome !!!  going to send these suggestions to those solar roadway folks ! 

[FrankBuss]

and let's not forget the pedestrians ! we should make the sidewalks reflective and use solar panels on the bottom of shoes to charge mobile phones. there is 6 billion people on Earth... you know what a hell of a surface area we could get placing solar panels on the underside of 6 billion pairs of shoes ? maaan...  that would be awesome !!!  going to send these suggestions to those solar roadway folks ! 

Better use a solar hat:

with such a project on Kickstarter you could get millions of dollars

[Legit-Design]

and let's not forget the pedestrians ! we should make the sidewalks reflective and use solar panels on the bottom of shoes to charge mobile phones. there is 6 billion people on Earth... you know what a hell of a surface area we could get placing solar panels on the underside of 6 billion pairs of shoes ? maaan...  that would be awesome !!!  going to send these suggestions to those solar roadway folks ! 

Better use a solar hat:

with such a project on Kickstarter you could get millions of dollars

I made this awesome list for PERKS we could have for this project:

SELECT A PERK
$100USD Featured
Solar Freakin' HAT Poster
For your donation, we'll send you a 24" x 36" movie poster of our viral Solar Freakin' Hat video.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 claimed
$5USD
Fuck you!
Fuck you so much for helping to move us one step closer to production.

0 claimed
$10USD
Thank you video
For your donation of $10, rob77 and FrankBuss (co-founders of Solar Hat) will thank you by name in a video while they are sitting with the Solar Hat's on. There will be one video thanking everyone who donates at this level. The video will be posted on Solar Hat's website (where it will remain for at least one year), social media, and we will also send you a copy.

0 claimed
$25USD
Set of 3 Bumper Stickers
For your donation, we'll send you a set of 3 bumper stickers with our logo and different sayings: I Helped Crowdfund Solar hat (logo) Run into Tomorrow with Solar Hats (logo) Let's Power the Earth with Solar Hats (logo)

Estimated delivery: July 2014
0 claimed
$25USD
Set of 3 Bumper Stickers - #2
For your donation, we'll send you a set of 3 bumper stickers with our logo and different sayings: The Hat to the Future (logo) I'm Walking on Sunshine (logo) Get a Charge with (logo)

Estimated delivery: July 2014
0 claimed
$40USD
Solar Freakin' Roadways hat
For your donation of $40, we'll send you our Solar Freakin' Roadways hat.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 claimed
$50USD
15-ounce Coffee Mug
For your donation, we'll send you a large coffee mug with the Solar Hat logo.

Estimated delivery: July 2014
0 claimed
$60USD
Canvas Tote/Shopping Bag
For your donation of $60, we'll send you our reusable canvas Energy-Economy-Ecology tote/shopping bag with our logo on the other side. See images at left.

Estimated delivery: July 2014
0 claimed
$75USD
T-Shirt with Logo
For your donation, we'll send you an organic cotton jersey T-shirt with our logo.

Estimated delivery: July 2014
0 claimed
$75USD
SFH "Whoa" Dude t-shirt
For your donation, we'll send you an organic cotton jersey T-shirt with the Solar Freakin' Hats "Whoa!" dude. See picture at left.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 claimed
$85USD
SFH iPhone 5/5S Tough Case
For your donation of $85, we'll send you our iPhone 5/5S Tough Case with the Solar Freakin' Hats logo. See image at left.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 claimed
$85USD
SFH iPhone 4/4S Tough Case
For your donation of $85, we'll send you our iPhone 4/4S Tough Case with the Solar Freakin' Hats logo. See image at left.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 claimed
$100USD
Thank You Video for You - Now
In a short (about 30 seconds) video filmed on the solar parking lot, FrankBuss and rob77 will thank you personally for your contribution and will send you the video within 24 hours, weather permitting. You can post on social media or wherever you'd like. If you email us immediately after your contribution, you can make a request for us to include special content (your favorite feature, a shout out to your environmental group, etc.).

0 claimed
$150USD
Glass Solar Cell Pendant
Solar cells are very fragile. After building 108 Solar Hat Panels, we had a lot of broken solar cells left over. We've placed pieces of the broken solar cells into a light bulb shaped glass vial. We then filled the bulbs with our panel laminate. Each one is unique and made by us. You can own a piece of history! You provide the chain. See photo to the left.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 out of 250 claimed
$150USD
Solar Freakin Hats Combo
For your donation of $150, you'll receive our Solar Freakin' Hats Combo Pack: Organic T-shirt, large coffee mug, and 3 bumper stickers. See image to the left.

Estimated delivery: August 2014
0 claimed
$300USD
Personalized Graphic for You!
For your $300 donation, email us your photo of a mom, dad, cat, neighbour, teacher, Dave, Girlfriend, Jesus, Mohammed, Thunderf00t, etc., and we'll have our graphic artists convert it to a Solar Hat rendition and email it back to you. Your photo should be shot as high as possible and be as high a resolution as possible. More info to the left. Here's your chance to see what your home, business, or town would look like with the Solar Hats technology applied!

Estimated delivery: July 2014
0 claimed
$500USD
Your Name on our Hat Lot
For your donation, we'll engrave your name or the name of your group or business on one of our 396 mounting hole covers. We'll place a photo of it on our website, where it will stay for at least one year and we'll send a photo to you. It will be filmed by the media and seen by visitors. Be part of history in the making!

Estimated delivery: October 2014
0 out of 396 claimed
$1,000USD
4-inch Glass Hexagon Hat
For your donation, we'll send you a 4-inch hexagon containing the same textured surface as our full-sized Solar Hats Panels (top layer only). Individually numbered, limited edition.

Estimated delivery: October 2014
0 out of 1000 claimed
$10,000USD
7-inch Glass Hexagon hat
For your donation, we'll send you a 7-inch hexagon hat containing the same textured surface as our full-sized Solar Hat Panels (top and bottom layers). This will be a small working model, including solar cells, LEDs, and a microprocessor. Individually numbered, limited edition.

Estimated delivery: October 2014
0 out of 100 claimed

[PlainName]

Making all roads reflective

That would increase the albedo of the Earth and reduce global warming, thus appealing to the climate change alarmists to boot. What's not to like 

[FrankBuss]

$10,000USD
7-inch Glass Hexagon hat

I would sell this for a bargain of $1,000 

[miguelvp]

A solar powered (parabolic mirror) stirling engine hooked to a generator will convert way more energy even will all the heat losses.

Just make sure it doesn't catch things on fire

[rob77]

A solar powered (parabolic mirror) stirling engine hooked to a generator will convert way more energy even will all the heat losses.

Just make sure it doesn't catch things on fire

but you have to cool the other side of the engine to have good efficiency (higher delta T => better efficiency).

[deth502]

3) Amount of power generated:  If you sat down an came up with the worst potential layout and architecture for a solar array, i would suggest, that other then putting them "indoors", a solar roadway would be it.  No mention of the effects of the angle of incidence of the sun / effect of dirty or damaged panels etc.

I was thinking of permanently installing a solar panel under a car. Just to demonstrate how much a solar parking lot would generate in worst case scenario. And how it would affect the return of investment. Maybe if I installed it pointing down we could make all the roads reflective to make it actually generate some power. Making all roads reflective would actually cost much, but then we could have cars with solar panels under them to power them? This could work as replacement for induction coils. Since induction charging for electric cars is not there yet, so we could use light instead. Also at night we could turn on the leds embedded in the roads to make it go. Other way would be to make a car out of glass... roof out of glass (we already have these) and floorboard out of glass and have the sun shine directly through the whole car and power the solar panel under it.

and let's not forget the pedestrians ! we should make the sidewalks reflective and use solar panels on the bottom of shoes to charge mobile phones. there is 6 billion people on Earth... you know what a hell of a surface area we could get placing solar panels on the underside of 6 billion pairs of shoes ? maaan...  that would be awesome !!!  going to send these suggestions to those solar roadway folks ! 

ive got an idea for a competing campaign. hate wearing ill-fitting, uncomfortable shoes? hate getting your shoes muddy and tracking dirt into your house? cell phone battery keep going dead? well here is the kickstarter for you!! for your donations of $500triillion, we will have the entire world covered with carpet. each person would then get a pair of wool socks, and we will develop a device to charge your cell phone from the static electricity generated from walking on the carpet.

sure, the idea can use some refinements, but i think its already more plausible than solar roadways.

[Phaedrus]

3) Amount of power generated:  If you sat down an came up with the worst potential layout and architecture for a solar array, i would suggest, that other then putting them "indoors", a solar roadway would be it.  No mention of the effects of the angle of incidence of the sun / effect of dirty or damaged panels etc.

I was thinking of permanently installing a solar panel under a car. Just to demonstrate how much a solar parking lot would generate in worst case scenario. And how it would affect the return of investment. Maybe if I installed it pointing down we could make all the roads reflective to make it actually generate some power. Making all roads reflective would actually cost much, but then we could have cars with solar panels under them to power them? This could work as replacement for induction coils. Since induction charging for electric cars is not there yet, so we could use light instead. Also at night we could turn on the leds embedded in the roads to make it go. Other way would be to make a car out of glass... roof out of glass (we already have these) and floorboard out of glass and have the sun shine directly through the whole car and power the solar panel under it.

and let's not forget the pedestrians ! we should make the sidewalks reflective and use solar panels on the bottom of shoes to charge mobile phones. there is 6 billion people on Earth... you know what a hell of a surface area we could get placing solar panels on the underside of 6 billion pairs of shoes ? maaan...  that would be awesome !!!  going to send these suggestions to those solar roadway folks ! 

ive got an idea for a competing campaign. hate wearing ill-fitting, uncomfortable shoes? hate getting your shoes muddy and tracking dirt into your house? cell phone battery keep going dead? well here is the kickstarter for you!! for your donations of $500triillion, we will have the entire world covered with carpet. each person would then get a pair of wool socks, and we will develop a device to charge your cell phone from the static electricity generated from walking on the carpet.

sure, the idea can use some refinements, but i think its already more plausible than solar roadways.

Probably cheaper; the cost per m^2 of polyester carpet is a few orders of magnitude lower than the cost of solar panels + tempered glass!

[MacAttak]

...Other way would be to make a car out of glass... roof out of glass (we already have these) and floorboard out of glass and have the sun shine directly through the whole car and power the solar panel under it.

Couldn't help myself...

[Legit-Design]

OH MYYY... FRINKIN'

Holy shit... they put microcontroller and leds in their panels... NOW THEY CAN LIGHT UP THE FRINKIN' ROAD!!! Who would have thought they could do this? Now it must be worth to give them lot of money since they can program a led display?

How about scrolling text? How about dynamic text?


NEW LOW FOR THEM!
SOLAR ROADWAYS PRESENTS

Very touching story - thank you to all who participated for sharing this with us.

"these people would have been saved if we got 2 million earlier" 

I wonder how many people will die and be injured when they can't stop on glass surface like these people promised?

[echen1024]

I love how they ALWAYS show the LEDs at night

[sunnyhighway]

Another attempt to gain even more buzz an credibility.

source: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways#activity

We were sworn to secrecy until now, but Solar Roadways was invited to the first ever Maker Faire hosted by the White House. The event will feature Makers, innovators, and entrepreneurs of all ages who are using cutting-edge tools to bring their ideas to life. We we're honored to be chosen. Off to the White House now! Will report back tonight.



Scott Brusaw

What's next?
Obama shaking hands with Scott Brusaw while receiving a hexagon tile?

[deth502]

Very touching story - thank you to all who participated for sharing this with us.

"these people would have been saved if we got 2 million earlier" 

"so if the SOLAR roadway thing, even if it was just implemented for those specific DARK corners......"

 

[EEVblog]

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

[echen1024]

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

Do it. Please. You are a widely respected member of the hobbyist/hacker/maker community, and your video would surely add weight to the idea that solar roadways is not as rosy as it might seem. I would put in the nah points, such as the unpracticalness and some technical deficiencies (~5-8) to go along.

[pickle9000]

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

Nice!!

[CanadianAvenger]

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

Do it. Please. You are a widely respected member of the hobbyist/hacker/maker community, and your video would surely add weight to the idea that solar roadways is not as rosy as it might seem. I would put in the nah points, such as the unpracticalness and some technical deficiencies (~5-8) to go along.

I don't think Solar Roadways carries much credibility in the hacker/maker community. The people that are praising it, are generally clueless about technology. [I'd still love to see Dave's take on it though]

[pickle9000]

There is also the issue that the asphalt is basically a flexible roof for the subgrade. Roads move and need to be formulated to reduce cracking, handle heat, cold all at the expense of durability. What will be used to keep all the tiles in place?

[ludzinc]

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

New segment:  Daily Solar Roadway Debunking.  Release each point as it's own 2 minute clip.

You could keep going until tech catches up and makes solar roadways viable!

[Bored@Work]

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

Fine if it is an entertaining rant.

However, if you try to convert believers in the scam into realists by coming up with facts, and trying to convince them it is a scam, well, waste of time. There is already more than enough material out there for those who want to educate themselves. The believers don't care. Pearls before swine.

[Legit-Design]

Where does all this energy come from to heat the road (to melt snow and ice) if there is a blizzard during the night? The road is in darkness and when morning comes the solar cells are covered in 10cm of snow and ice, or more. Won't snowploughs rough up the glass surface? I don't know, never seen one close up.

They have thought of EVERYTHING 

Here's the worst case scenario: if all else fails, we can replace snow plows with street sweepers where needed (vehicles with large rotating brushes). They're used here in Idaho in the spring to clear the roads of the sand that was used for traction during the winter months.

So they know normal plows would damage the surface. For those don't see snow every winter, snow plow WILL carve grooves on the asphalt on worst case scenario. Snow plow will create sparks with it's plow and road surface when the operator goes too deep. Worst grooves I've seen on the road were same depth as those glass tiles.

For every engineering problem there is a solution that will cost shit tons of money. They are planning to fix their problems exactly like that.

I think they could fix their poor efficiency of their solar panels by having motor on the road for every brick. They just tilt the bricks and pressure sensors on the roads retract the solar panels when car comes. This extending and retracting could even double as SIGNALING DEVICE! Imagine to use shit ton of money and doing useless things that never should have existed, now in addition we can do cool things with it.

I'm maybe a few hours away from hitting record on a debunking video...
There is so much to include though, it's hard to know what to put in and what to leave out...

Fine if it is an entertaining rant.

However, if you try to convert believers in the scam into realists by coming up with facts, and trying to convince them it is a scam, well, waste of time. There is already more than enough material out there for those who want to educate themselves. The believers don't care. Pearls before swine.

I hope it's back of the envelope type calculations. Laying panels flat on ground is really inefficient. Putting tempered glass to disperse the suns energy is really inefficient. Now calculations how much inefficient it is? They have even kindly provided some numbers themselves. Ok now with all these inefficiencies we have limited lifetime of solar cells. Shouldn't we be trying to get most out of the cells, not trying to make them produce less than they could?

[EEVblog]

What will be used to keep all the tiles in place?

Huge concrete roads and associated cable pits. The tiles are bolted into place on concrete. They don't mention that much...
So any existing road that's not a concrete base (most of them I believe) need to be ripped up and replaced with concrete first.

[EEVblog]

I've started on some calcs...

[PlainName]

snow plow WILL carve grooves on the asphalt on worst case scenario

I don't see a problem with that. When I had a CRT I would use any old glass cleaner on the screen to get the muck off it, never bother about finger marks, etc. On my LCD with the strange flexible(ish) screen I take a lot more care! If you use brute force stuff designed for old tech on your new tech you are asking for trouble, and if you can't change that brute force you're never going to advance. Thus changing the ploughs makes perfect sense (and trivially cheap compared to the cost of the  road) for the implementors. Those with a grudge won't see that using a forge to make ally parts is silly.

But having said that, you can't restrict traffic on a public road (sort of). You might change your ploughs, but are you going to ban tracked vehicles? How about a JCB moving between jobs or something similar? For this reason I see it as a big problem, and I suggest it is that aspect that is used to debunk. Banging on about ploughs won't convince anyone when they realise how easy it is to make it a non-problem.

(Some roads around here are restricted, typically for weight where there is a bridge that's on its last legs. So vehicles over a certain weight are banned. Also, I'm pretty sure that if one damages roadside furniture - perhaps dragging a JCB along to make a nice gouge - one can get hit with damages by the local council. Not sure if that actually happens other than in special cases, though.)

[Legit-Design]

snow plow WILL carve grooves on the asphalt on worst case scenario

I don't see a problem with that. When I had a CRT I would use any old glass cleaner on the screen to get the muck off it, never bother about finger marks, etc. On my LCD with the strange flexible(ish) screen I take a lot more care! If you use brute force stuff designed for old tech on your new tech you are asking for trouble, and if you can't change that brute force you're never going to advance. Thus changing the ploughs makes perfect sense (and trivially cheap compared to the cost of the  road) for the implementors. Those with a grudge won't see that using a forge to make ally parts is silly.

I was trying to make point about their awesome skills for solving problems they have created themselves by doing certain things in certain way. It's not just about the ploughs they have to change. They have to change everything. When does a solution create more problems than it solves?

Get plasma screen and it has tempered glass  That tempered glass protects the fragile plasmas to some extent, however it also creates really annoying reflections even if it's flat. Plasma screens are awesome when there is no sunlight entering the room. Just be careful with that tempered glass, even if it's hard it might shatter really easy. See? Tempered glass solves every problem!

[Legit-Design]

There is also the issue that the asphalt is basically a flexible roof for the subgrade. Roads move and need to be formulated to reduce cracking, handle heat, cold all at the expense of durability. What will be used to keep all the tiles in place?

I'm sure they will come up with something really awesome. If it's anything like what they have done already, solution should be something almost unpractical. Maybe they will use some natural substance like asphalt or tar?

[Tranan]

Solar roadwaws are just stupid, noting more than that. We got plenty of roof top. and we got plenty of other areas that we do not use, so no need to re work the roads. and if ti works on 230V AC we can carry the current approx 90m until we need to transform it to some thing useful. And the losses with the electronics. And melt snow! Get real. not a option in Sweden. the power needed is just silly.   

[pickle9000]

So the original money the got from the government was where the original tiles came from?

Am I correct in assuming that was a feasibility study and it failed (no more funding). It would be interesting to see the final govt report or reply on that if it has one.

[Legit-Design]

So the original money the got from the government was where the original tiles came from?
Am I correct in assuming that was a feasibility study and it failed (no more funding). It would be interesting to see the final govt report or reply on that if it has one.

We are still in R & D, and we haven't even calculated the cost for our prototype. That will come next month as we get our final report ready for our Phase II contract with the Federal Highway Administration. And even if we had those numbers available now they would have no relevance to the cost of our actual product.

Next month... month ago? If it's always next month then that is genius.

[gildasd]

This product would be good but not for roads.

I see it as useful for parking's  and similar, not high volume traffic areas.
If it could just generate during the day all the electricity needed to light/de-ice during the night that would be great.
That would be revolutionary.

They're taking the product a bridge too far.

[zapta]

36-watt (assume is watt/hour) per panel currently so how long will it take to pay for itself?
so $10000 / 36 = $278 per Watt/h

They can come with creative revenue sources using the addressable LEDS.  For example, ads, custom lane marks for paying business (e.g. a red line that leads you to the nearest McDonald) , dynamic preferred lanes for paying customers with real time lane bidding between cars, and so on.

(I am not a supporter, just pointing new possibilities).

[TommyGunn]

So the White House has invited them over...

June 18th: We were sworn to secrecy until now, but Solar Roadways was invited to the first ever Maker Faire hosted by the White House. The event will feature Makers, innovators, and entrepreneurs of all ages who are using cutting-edge tools to bring their ideas to life. We we're honored to be chosen. Off to the White House now!

[zapta]

So the White House has invited them over...

The white house had great track record with solar companies.

[EEVblog]

They're taking the product a bridge too far.

Several bridges too far if you looks at all the wild claims on their website!

[miguelvp]

Just the training and the man hours of qualified installers cost will be exorbitant.

[miguelvp]

36-watt (assume is watt/hour) per panel currently so how long will it take to pay for itself?
so $10000 / 36 = $278 per Watt/h

They can come with creative revenue sources using the addressable LEDS.  For example, ads, custom lane marks for paying business (e.g. a red line that leads you to the nearest McDonald) , dynamic preferred lanes for paying customers with real time lane bidding between cars, and so on.

(I am not a supporter, just pointing new possibilities).

They do have that listed, as well as leasing the cable runs for data, phones, power etc as revenue.
The problem with the LEDs is that they will have to use light guides to make them visible at the required angles.
And McDonalds will just put a tall sign visible from the Highway as they've been doing.

[EEVblog]

They do have that listed, as well as leasing the cable runs for data, phones, power etc as revenue.

You mean that stuff that is already in place in a modern society? 

[miguelvp]

They do have that listed, as well as leasing the cable runs for data, phones, power etc as revenue.

You mean that stuff that is already in place in a modern society? 

Exactly!

I'm not defending them, just stating what they claim as source of revenue. I think the whole thing is nuts and a waste of naive people's money.

[CrosseyeJack]

Dave, Loved your video. You should of kept it up even though (iTunes update.... (At Least it wasn't clippy asking "I see you are trying to record a YouTube Video. Would you like me to start Windows Movie Maker")) the video had edit issues. It did show a level of frustration you had with the whole concept. It made you come across as more a "real life person" than a perfectly edited video.

Sample Text.

[EEVblog]

Dave, Loved your video. You should of kept it up even though (iTunes update.... (At Least it wasn't clippy asking "I see you are trying to record a YouTube Video. Would you like me to start Windows Movie Maker")) the video had edit issues. It did show a level of frustration you had with the whole concept. It made you come across as more a "real life person" than a perfectly edited video.

Nah, hadn't been up long, and the new video is better for it. Have added some extra stuff I was going to cover in extra videos, so it's better for as a standalone video now.

[echen1024]

Where is the video? I can't seem to find it.

[EEVblog]

OK, new video is up:


Some extra stuff added on LED power output and some calculations on payback period.

[Legit-Design]

Next contender wind roadways 

[deth502]

Next contender wind roadways 

literally laughing out loud  thats a fucking classic!

[gildasd]

Next contender wind roadways 

Re-posted all over the interwebs - let's make this go viral!

[echen1024]

Next contender wind roadways 

Re-posted all over the interwebs - let's make this go viral!

Oh man... 
I need to start an actual Indiegogo campaign with wind roadways.

[gildasd]

Next contender wind roadways 

Re-posted all over the interwebs - let's make this go viral!

Oh man... 
I need to start an actual Indiegogo campaign with wind roadways.

And spend it all on a collection of scopes and meters.

A bit like Baldrick form Blackadder but with the electronics equivalent of turnips:

[echen1024]

Next contender wind roadways 

Re-posted all over the interwebs - let's make this go viral!

Oh man... 
I need to start an actual Indiegogo campaign with wind roadways.

And spend it all on a collection of scopes and meters.

A bit like Baldrick form Blackadder but with the electronics equivalent of turnips:

First is the family tesla. Then we spend it on an Agilent, analog Tek, 2-3 DMMs, SA, and some other odds and ends.

[CrosseyeJack]

Nah, hadn't been up long, and the new video is better for it. Have added some extra stuff I was going to cover in extra videos, so it's better for as a standalone video now.

I didn't watch your "New" video because I though it would be a re-edit but I will catch up on it now :-)