Author Topic: The Airing  (Read 82159 times)

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Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #150 on: July 16, 2016, 11:56:31 pm »
Hi group,

I missed this earlier.

In this picture:



Taken from the update video. You can see the high voltage supply that has already been identified.
I think that the power devices are made by IXYS. Here is an example of one of the parts:



The HP box is an HP8111A pulse generator. So it looks like this is a half-bridge h.v. driver.

They need high voltage to get the forces needed to move air with the micro blower. The same reason electrostatic speakers need high voltage.

I haven't a clue as to how you would build a miniature, efficient high voltage supply and the high voltage driver running of a coin cell.

I don't think I would want a 2-3 kV power supply stuck up my nose.



Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B


 

Offline amspire

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #151 on: July 17, 2016, 12:44:29 am »
I don't think I would want a 2-3 kV power supply stuck up my nose.
Now that is a problem! A totally safe 3000V ozone-free generator in your nose that costs $3 to retail and that will keep working in spite of high humidity, condensation. etc . Has to cost less then $1 to manufacture and that price has to include the electronics, the pump, the battery, medical liability insurance, medical grade silicon rubber. This thing would still have power in the battery when you throw it out each day. They will probably have to have a recycle scheme built into the price as well.

How many dB of audio noise or ultrasonic noise does it generate?

I was thinking it may have a 1% chance of success, but now that seems overly optimistic.


 

Offline Kean

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #152 on: July 17, 2016, 09:59:36 am »
I think that the power devices are made by IXYS. Here is an example of one of the parts:
...
The HP box is an HP8111A pulse generator. So it looks like this is a half-bridge h.v. driver.

:-+ Yep, that was my also conclusion here
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/the-airing/msg923590/?topicseen#msg923590

Quote
I don't think I would want a 2-3 kV power supply stuck up my nose.
:-DD
 

Online edy

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #153 on: July 17, 2016, 12:20:24 pm »
I have been suspicious of Stephen Marsh's motivations since reading about his previously troubled venture capital backed project and legal fallout and lawsuits (Echelon, etc.).

What I believe is going on here is Marsh wanted to continue doing research, could not get any V.C. investor due to his sketchy previous history, and came up with this idea for crowd funding his lab instead.

I don't know what progress he will make on this micro blower. I am predicting that we will never see an Airing but we may see some kind of new electrostatic nanotechnology device that may perhaps have some applications somewhere which Marsh will patent and perhaps sell off. Even a functioning micro blower with specs required for Airing is a long long shot... but some small piezoelectric electrostatic or whatever device that *may* find some use in any industrial application... who knows.

Either way, backers get nothing. I am sure all of these OSA sufferers knew this going in [sarcasm].


EDIT:

After following this thing for the past year, and reading my past posts, I have had some realizations:

1. I cannot know Stephen Marsh's TRUE intentions. He may genuinely believe in his idea and be doing everything possible to make it happen. So it is wrong of me to jump to the conclusion that he is a scammer. He may be just misguided by his "experts" that want to work with him to make this thing work. He is not a nanotech engineer as far as I know. Also, there is a kind of "self-delusion" that some inventors have that can sometimes be a good quality... keep working until a breakthrough occurs, or pathological... like keep working in futility and not knowing when to quit, and losing everything in the process.

2. Crowd-funders are ultimately responsible for whether they give their money or not to campaigns. They need to understand the risks and it seems clearly spelled out. The more I have seen the crowd-funding space, the more I am starting to think that the stupidity of backers is ultimately to blame for this market. Marsh never promised Airings, he promised vouchers and research to get started on Airing development. He never promised they'd even make it to market (FDA approval, etc). He also didn't say he had anything working, it is clear he had a pencil-on-a-napkin drawing he dreamed up of "micro-blowers" and the rest was a HUGE LEAP OF FAITH that backers took.

Based on these revelations, I am less critical of Stephen Marsh now than I was originally. He may be a dreamer and inventor, deluded and perhaps misguided in his understanding of physics, but he is doing what he believes may lead to something. On the other hand, maybe he is just scamming money. The point is, I DO NOT KNOW and therefore I CAN'T JUDGE his character or motivations.

However, crowd-funding has "enabled" these dreamers and inventors, and scammers. It's like giving a drug to a drug addict. Who is to blame? The drug addict? Or people who give him money or drugs to enable the behavior?


« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 02:13:45 pm by edy »
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Online edy

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #154 on: July 22, 2016, 05:58:13 pm »
AIRING UPDATE! They're MOVING AIR!

Just received this update:

http://www.fundairing.com/journal/2016/7/21/airing-prototype-update-a-major-milestone-crossed






There's still a long way to go, like characterizing what exactly is happening here. I'd like to know what exactly we are looking at in their demonstration. Any ideas?
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Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #155 on: July 23, 2016, 03:13:12 am »
Hi,
The video shows a top down view of the membrane. I think you are looking at the membrane going in and out of focus. In the update, provided by Airing, they are saying this is being triggered manually, so that you can see the movement, in normal use the membrane will be moving so fast that it will be a blur.

I am assuming that are valves (not shown) at the input and output ports of the micro blower.

Here is a picture from fundairing.com:



This shows the device will be an array of these micro blowers.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #156 on: July 23, 2016, 08:53:53 am »
A sort of pump that is obviously missing a pair of one-way valves.
 

Online edy

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #157 on: July 24, 2016, 09:40:19 pm »
This GIF animation doesn't give any idea of scale either in space or time. We still have no idea of the size and geometrical design, unless it is following the rendering (which I highly doubt can be manufactured as shown). If there are plates being electrostatically charged, they need to have electrodes independently to each plate and the movement must be smooth and even with insulating coatings or space limiter to keep the charges from jumping plates. Their "bellows" rendering is mechanically not guaranteed to move evenly up and down, and the sliding movement has too much freedom.

Whatever they made, it looks more like a disc shape perhaps with 2 thin flexible plates separated by a thin air gap, and when they charge the plates they squeeze together in the middle. If there is a small hole somewhere it will let air move in and out of the thin gap between plates.
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Offline Kalidor

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Offline rob77

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #159 on: September 27, 2016, 09:08:51 pm »
that device on ebay seems to be an air filter only, but the design is extremely similar to airing :)
 

Online edy

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #160 on: September 29, 2016, 03:57:59 am »
Wow!  :o

Yeah those eBay devices look a lot like the Airing. Now what came first? Did Airing actually design it, or did they steal it from another company? Or did presumably a Chinese manufacturer copy the design to produce their own knock-off? Or was this a case of Airing talking to a Chinese fabricator and getting their design ripped out from under them?

One thing is for sure... the non-powered Airing or "Stop Stuffy Nose Breathing Snoring Apparatus"-thingy is like an internal version of the Breathe Right strips (https://www.breatheright.com/). When I've had a cold and congested nose, I've tried the Breathe-Right and it definitely helps improve the nasal passage opening. You can achieve the same effect by sticking 2 tubes into the end of your nostrils that are larger than your nostrils... which will expand them. You can even temporarily test it out by using your fingers to spread apart your nostrils.

So either method... externally (by sticking to your skin and trying to expand your nasal tissue) or internally (by forcing a larger diameter tube into your nares) will give you a noticeable improvement in the air flow.

What Airing has to do now is basically keep working on their "research" for a few years and when backers start complaining too highly they can ship them these things, pennies on the dollar, to shut them up. Then they can use this line....

"Sorry we couldn't get our microblowers to work, or FDA wouldn't clear our device for use. But as a consolation offer we will send you these Airing Stop Puffy Nose Breathing Snoring Appliances...".

Take a look at the pricing.... $50 for 15 Airings. Well, what's $2.99 (eBay item) x 15 = $45. Or $70 for 30 Airings... The prices per unit are awfully close to the anticipated price of $3 per Airing retail, and the eBay item is $2.99. Yup. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Cost to manufacture these is pennies and they can continue to market and sell these devices without any FDA approval and while they do help improve breathing for people with allergies/colds/congestion, it is FAR FAR AWAY as a SLEEP APNEA DEVICE.

So we've basically come back around FULL CIRCLE!  :-DD   Look back in this thread, I think we already mentioned that the original design and concept appeared to make sense as a type of Breathe-Right, except for the fact that they added on this garbage about microblowers and batteries and tried to claim it is a sleep apnea device. Meanwhile, they might have had a successful and fulfilled campaign already if all they did was sell you this Breathe-Right alternative.

 :palm:

I don't know.... They look pretty close in design:



LOOK! Someone selling those snoring appliances is using this photo on their site but with the "Airing" photoshopped away, and using the same graphics as the Airing (lady sleeping):







LOOK! This image for an ad for "snore nose top snoring apnea guard" even uses Airing's lady sleeping photo on their packaging, and obviously shipping the knock-off design items.



Based on some of the images I've been able to Google using image search for "stop snoring breathing apparatus", it definitely looks like someone is COPYING Airing and even using their photos from their website, and also looks like they scratched out the Airing name on some of them. You can see where the Airing model has a kind of metallic mesh on the top, while the simpler breathing apparatus has just a plastic/rubbery shell. In the "fake" advertisements for the simpler breathing apparatus it looks like they are using the Airing photos and just Photoshopping out the Airing name, but obviously the device they will ship you will NOT look like the Airing but their copy-cat design version (likely made of 2 pieces of plastic... a colored outer piece with the holes, and the white/transparent softer piece that fits into the nose).

 :palm:

Me thinks that some clever business-person in China saw the success of the Airing campaign and decided to just make a simpler nasal-nare-dilating appliance to help breathing.... Which works and is definitely worth the price.The design patents obviously not being an issue, not enforceable in China, and seeing through all this B.S. of microblowers/sleep apnea/battery, the Chinese company took it upon themselves to just get it made and shipped out. There are many other similar in-the-nose devices, just not ones that look like the Airing. So when they saw the design they figured lets just copy it and use it for our breathing helper and that's it.  :-+
« Last Edit: September 29, 2016, 04:26:56 am by edy »
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Offline Khendrask

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #161 on: September 30, 2016, 11:49:52 am »
that device on ebay seems to be an air filter only, but the design is extremely similar to airing :)

It isn't just extremely similar, it is identical... Right down to the picture of the hand holding one.  Marsh just stole that for his IGG campaign.

And ALL of the photos on the Airing page are stock photos, with the 'Device' edited in.  The woman, the man and woman sleeping, every last one of them is a stock photo, which is available online.

Here is his "Man and Woman Sleeping" one, direct from Shutterstock, (but without the magic device):
http://www.123rf.com/photo_3458939_couple-lying-in-bed-together-sleeping.html

Marsh is a typical IGG scammer, and laughing his butt to the bank thanks to the "InDemand" status of the campaign.  Technically, he is even delivering the goods... Allowing the contributors to print out "Vouchers" for when the 'Product' actually comes out... I hope the vouchers are soft so the contributors can use them in the bathroom.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 11:57:04 am by Khendrask »
 

Offline Bud

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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #163 on: October 05, 2016, 11:48:24 pm »
High voltage diaphram you say? Well if we were to hack it by installing a bluetooth module inside to add external control to the transistors...

*WWWWWWUUUUUUUUB WUB-WUB WUB WUB-WUB*

"AAAAAAHHHH! :scared: My nose is full of dubstep!" >:D
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
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Offline timb

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #164 on: October 05, 2016, 11:50:22 pm »
High voltage diaphram you say? Well if we were to hack it by installing a bluetooth module inside to add external control to the transistors...

*WWWWWWUUUUUUUUB WUB-WUB WUB WUB-WUB*

"AAAAAAHHHH! :scared: My nose is full of dubstep!" >:D

A high voltage diaphragm... So, does it just electrocute the sperm, or what?
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #165 on: October 06, 2016, 01:57:34 am »
A high voltage diaphragm... So, does it just electrocute the sperm, or what?

We aren't quite sure, but it looks like two metal sheets that get pushed and pulled by changing their electrostatic polarity. This is supposed to pump air (or so they claim).
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Offline Kalidor

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #166 on: October 19, 2016, 07:59:49 pm »
Of course this is a scam they also "managing" the comments section, my comments are all gone.
At least they are so honest and say "no refund after 10 days".
What really pisses me off is that IGG allows them to use the InDemand feature, every day ~5 new backers.  :rant:
 
Here a video about Airing made by a CPAP expert:

https://youtu.be/oXo_7nT9qCU
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Online edy

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #167 on: December 01, 2016, 01:44:15 am »
No surprises here, they have announced already a 1 year delay: http://www.fundairing.com/journal/2016/11/28/a-significant-step-forward

Quick somebody save the page before further editing.
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #168 on: December 06, 2016, 05:51:33 am »
I don't understand why he has connected a 3KV electrophoresis supply to the apparatus under the microscope. Some kind of micromachine that runs on such a high voltage is not very likely.

I don't get that either

Maybe it's actually an ozone generator...

Oh, you're choking from a breathing disorder? Well here's some ozone to make you feel better...
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #169 on: December 06, 2016, 07:36:33 am »
No surprises here, they have announced already a 1 year delay: http://www.fundairing.com/journal/2016/11/28/a-significant-step-forward
Quick somebody save the page before further editing.

 

Offline djos

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #170 on: December 22, 2016, 11:09:06 pm »
This topic has been dozing for a few years but I thought I'd chime in, the Airing looked interesting so I backed it on IGG a few years back.

I've been getting regular updates lately so it'll be interesting to see if they actually deliver.

If I get mine I'll send a few to Dave for tear down and analysis. :)
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Offline djos

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #171 on: December 22, 2016, 11:18:34 pm »
This topic has been dozing for a few years but I thought I'd chime in, the Airing looked interesting so I backed it on IGG a few years back.

I've been getting regular updates lately so it'll be interesting to see if they actually deliver.

If I get mine I'll send a few to Dave for tear down and analysis. :)
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Offline amspire

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #172 on: December 22, 2016, 11:52:54 pm »
This topic has been dozing for a few years but I thought I'd chime in, the Airing looked interesting so I backed it on IGG a few years back.

I've been getting regular updates lately so it'll be interesting to see if they actually deliver.

If I get mine I'll send a few to Dave for tear down and analysis. :)
If you hear or get anything, we would be really interested, but this seems to be another project that is spending money like it doesn't matter, but without any statements at all to describe how they can achieve any useful results.

The concept of a 1-3kV electrostatic or piezoelectric pump in your nose and to have it work with all the humidity in your exhalations seems crazy. Also the battery capacity is not enough for continual pressure through the night, so it suggests that it is only useful for people who only need occasional help.

If they do actually make a pump, then it is likely they are trying a strategy that hasn't been used before - such as trying to just send a quick burst of pressure at the start of the breath to unblock the air passage and then relying on the air flow to keep the passage open. As well as this probably being noisy and uncomfortable, it will probably need several years of very expensive medical research to identify which conditions can be managed with the Airling, and then the device will need to be supplied under medical prescription.

The concept that they will be freely shipping in 2018 to anyone who wants to try it seems a bit ridiculous and dangerous. When you gave them the money, they didn't actually promise you anything - just a partial discount on the first years supply of Airlings if they ever ended up with a product. Otherwise, your money is letting them buy expensive equipment and play with it. They could at least detail what results they have achieved so far - if there are any results.
 

Offline djos

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Re: The Airing
« Reply #173 on: December 23, 2016, 12:44:05 am »
I think you've been misinformed, the IGG definitely had multiple pre order options, I spent about $90 Aud so I had a good supply to play with.

My perk is: Silver Founder + 30 Airings
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Offline djos

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The Airing
« Reply #174 on: December 23, 2016, 02:12:07 am »
Btw I'm sceptical just like most others here but I'm going to reserve judgment until I see the product or the company quietly vanish with my money.

Latest update from yesterday:



And from 30th November 2016:

« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 02:16:04 am by djos »
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