Author Topic: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?  (Read 10288 times)

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Offline iampoor

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Offline miguelvp

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2014, 03:19:38 am »
Looks like they have individual square PCBs interconnected with flex wire and an OLED screen, the batteries will have to be modular connected with flex wire as well.

Good timing on the campaign.

Still, I don't think $300K is enough to get a full phone done and manufactured at $500 a pop for a brand new company that's never done it. And Flexible funding to top it off  :--
 

n45048

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2014, 04:59:12 am »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2014, 05:10:18 am »
Apple got there first.

They did?

Where have you been on the last week. The whole bendgate and burned phones in the microwave are trending everywhere because people are idiots :)
 

Offline iampoor

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2014, 08:10:38 am »
Looks like they have individual square PCBs interconnected with flex wire and an OLED screen, the batteries will have to be modular connected with flex wire as well.

Good timing on the campaign.

Still, I don't think $300K is enough to get a full phone done and manufactured at $500 a pop for a brand new company that's never done it. And Flexible funding to top it off  :--

I wondering how many developers and money is sunk into a "big name" phone. Id imagine atleast 100 and a few million a the bare minimum?

Arn EMC and compliance tests very very very stringent on phones?
 

Offline Rerouter

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2014, 08:14:45 am »
wait 2 more apple generations and there obsession with making things thinner will force it to bend like a roll up (you can only get so thin before the space required for a rigid frame exceeds the space required for the electronics)
 

Offline iampoor

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2014, 08:27:17 am »
wait 2 more apple generations and there obsession with making things thinner will force it to bend like a roll up (you can only get so thin before the space required for a rigid frame exceeds the space required for the electronics)

I dont want my phone to look like a......


 

Offline DomesticHacks

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2014, 10:56:35 am »
I was about to post this here, but someone was faster.

I think it's bullshit, since there isn't even one image with a working prototype.

Brilliant:

Quote
How do you make a phone water proof?
We have some tricks up our sleeve.  These days, there are all kinds of compounds out there developed to protect circuit boards from exposure to the elements.  There is cold potting which turns the circuit board into a hockey puck, there is conformal coating which is like putting clear nail polish on top of the circuit board.  There are hundreds of different chemicals, materials, and processes that have been used in other industries to achieve the exact same result.  We'll just say we did some tinkering and made a few discoveries- the rest is top secret for now.
Translation => We don't know

Quote
How nerdy are you guys?
Well, if you want to talk about coplanar wave guides, the differences between ENIG and OSP PCB, or MIPS we can go there and somewhat enjoy it.  If you have a "in the weeds" question shoot us a message and we'll be happy to discuss.
Wank wank wank

Quote
Unfortunately the mobile space is very competitive and every supplier wraps us up in more legal documents than you can imagine.  This is why some of our details are so vague. ...........the simple answer is all of our vendors put us under non-disclosure agreements (NDA).........................Since Portal is still being baked, in order to tell you the processor we have selected, what this or that is, etc.; we would have to tell you what our vendors product road maps look like which is their confidential information................................The chip maker isn't going to like a picture of their prototype chip that hasn't been released yet publicly, up on IndieGoGo......................................The processor and all of the chips are well known by name and vendor.  We aren't inventing chips, and we aren't crazy. The majority of the components that make up Portal will be in other smart phones you don't know about yet from the "big guys".  There aren't very many mobile chipset manufactures- lets leave it at that.
Beside many empty (marketing) texte there are Excuses, excuses and even more excuses.
Why are they trying so hard do convince us? I think we all know the answer. :bullshit:



« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 11:11:57 am by DomesticHacks »
Interesting projects, tipps and tricks (in German).
DomesticHacks on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/DomesticHacks
 

Offline rob77

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2014, 11:34:20 am »
wow ! a mobilephone SOAP !  :-DD
 

Offline tom66

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2014, 12:01:59 pm »
This will be another scam campaign which will take $300k and never deliver anything except some cheap $5 headphones.

Indiegogo should ban these complex project campaigns unless they submit a working prototype directly. Not just photos or renderings. It must have all or a significant part of the described functionality.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 12:04:35 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline Wilksey

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2014, 12:19:03 pm »
Apple got there first.

They did?

They designed a phone that bent (iPhone 6+), but it wasn't supposed to be bendable to that extent!  :palm:
 

Offline macgyver0815

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2014, 05:37:09 pm »
Apple got there first.

They did?

They designed a phone that bent (iPhone 6+), but it wasn't supposed to be bendable to that extent!  :palm:

The Apple designed Banana(phone)!


(could be the official commercial for it)
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2014, 02:52:53 am »
There is so, so much wrong with this campaign that I don't even know where to begin.

I'll just say that there are a lot of dumb people in the world, and the people investing for a flexible funded new type of phone concept with equal or better specs to top-shelf smartphones for less than half the price, developed and mass-produced in a matter of weeks/few months by a team of kids who say "building a smartphone and tech company isn't rocket science" - are people who deserve to be scammed out of their money.

At some point, you have to have at least a functioning IQ and if you piss away your hard earned money for perpetual motion machines, well, it's your fault for being dumb  :-DD
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline sleemanj

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Offline frenky

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2014, 10:54:34 am »
Did you notice that on all images the time is exactly "15:56"?
 

Offline Kean

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2014, 12:55:14 pm »
Did you notice that on all images the time is exactly "15:56"?

Not just "15:56" but "15:56 PM" in many of the images.
Even better in one image it is "15:56 AM"!  :-DD
 

Offline rob77

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2014, 01:42:21 pm »
Did you notice that on all images the time is exactly "15:56"?

Not just "15:56" but "15:56 PM" in many of the images.
Even better in one image it is "15:56 AM"!  :-DD

even the 15:56 PM is a pure nonsense.... either 15:56 OR 3:56 PM but NOT 15:56 PM ;) so it's a proof that not a single fuck was given while creating the renderings   :-DD
i'm very sorry for all the backers of that scam.

 

Offline Wilksey

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2014, 02:47:09 pm »
Haha, just noticed the time.

It even has a 3200mhA battery, wait, yes, milli hours per Amps?
Eh?

And it has the "fastest" multi core processor!
What happens if they bring out a faster one whilst shipping? Trade Descriptions! (Shipping!  :-DD)

Wouldn't it be easier to strap an iPhone or Android phone to your wrist? Might be smaller!

I'll give credit to the graphic artists though.
 

Offline macgyver0815

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2014, 03:32:07 pm »
And it has the "fastest" multi core processor!

When reading that I imagine something like this:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/Data/2009_8_21/IBM-to-release-first-public-information-on-POWER7/IBM_POWER6plus_675.jpg
?
(IBM Power 5GHz Octacore)
 >:D

 

Offline zapta

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2014, 03:38:52 pm »
>> too good to be true

I don't see any good. I prefer to read from flat screens and have my mobile device in my pocket rather than on my arm.

What's next, rounded wallets and credit cards that you can carry on your arm?
Drain the swamp.
 

Offline jolshefsky

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2014, 03:47:51 pm »
It even has a 3200mhA battery, wait, yes, milli hours per Amps?

To be fair, that's just an unconventional unit.  ;) It just means the battery can deliver 1 amp for 3,200 milli-hours or 3.2 hours.  3200 mAh means it can deliver 3,200 milli-amps for one hour ... QED.
May your deeds return to you tenfold.
 

Offline Wilksey

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2014, 05:19:08 pm »
Yes, I expect it is a typo though, I haven't seen any other battery manufacturer of something I presume a LiPo indicating how many milli hours per amp it can deliver. It is possible to rearrange the equation on anything to get the same result.

Is there no protection to the pledger in these kinds of campaigns?  If the product doesn't exist or isn't ever going to exist, is that purely down to the pledgers own initiative to spot a fraud or do the companies running them have an obligation to do seek legal advice after 'n' number of complaints of non-delivery?
 

Offline tom66

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #22 on: September 30, 2014, 07:28:48 pm »
There appears to be no legal recourse other than suing the guys directly, due to such costs it would probably only happen through class action cases. I hope someone makes an example of these scammers soon, because it's really tiring to see honest people lose money - just because they can't spot that something just isn't currently practical or possible. Not everyone is an engineer, and not everyone knows where to research what technologies actually exist, and what don't...

For example, flexible lithium polymer type batteries do exist (my university, the University of Leeds has developed ones) but as far as I'm aware, the capacity is very limited - last I'd heard was on the order of 100mAh max. The problem is to make a larger capacity cell (of cell-phone like dimensions) you need to roll the layers in a manner not unlike making an electrolytic capacitor. Bending the battery then can violate the spacing between the layers, which can lead to short circuits and Bad Things™. It's possible to fix the form factor of a LiPo (Nike+ fuelband has curved LiPos) but only during manufacture. It can't be changed while in use.

Curved OLED panels do exist but only in very large sizes (55" for TVs, etc.)  No manufacturer is selling flexible OLED panels of any form factor. Prototypes have been demonstrated at low densities. Many such displays suffer from repeated stress. The bonding on the chip-on-glass fails after many flexing operations, leading to stuck lines on the panel. 

« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 07:33:12 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2014, 07:36:57 pm »
Ah, seems like it's been nuked by the Indiegogo team. Good!

.... for reasons other than which I expected:

http://www.arubixs.com/press-release/
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 07:41:18 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #24 on: September 30, 2014, 10:16:42 pm »
Ah, seems like it's been nuked by the Indiegogo team. Good!

.... for reasons other than which I expected:

http://www.arubixs.com/press-release/

Very strange.

I don't actually see a patent under that guy's name that has the claims he lists.  Furthermore, it's far fetched that his claims describe an actual invention rather than just an idea of how a theoretical device could work.

He sounds like some kind of wannabe patent troll / egghead inventor-wannabe.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2014, 10:37:18 pm »
I almost welcome it, if it stops a scam like this.

Patent idea: "A Process for Extracting Monetary Funds off Unaware Individuals via Crowd-Sourcing"

Claims:
- A method wherein a "crowd-funding" site is used to fund a hardware or software Project (herein "the Project") of high complexity;
- The method in Claim 1 wherein a hardware function of a device is not practically implementable with commercially available components;
- The method in Claim 1 wherein the Developer "slags off" other products for not providing said impossible features;
- The method in Claim 1 wherein the funding goal is not sufficient to develop the Project;
- The method in Claim 1 wherein the funding is set as "Flexible Fund" (or equivalent), as an insurance to receiving the Funds;
- The method in Claim 2 wherein the hardware or software project is never delivered, in whole or in part;
- The method in Claim 2 wherein, if delivered, the result suffers from serious design flaws, lack of engineering oversight and poor engineering consideration;
- The method in Claim 5 wherein Updates are issued in decreasing frequency as the Backer stress metric (see figure 4) increases;
- The method in Claim 5 wherein the Lead Developer of the Project uses Project funds to purchase a luxury automobile, an exclusive condo, or shopping spree items.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 10:40:45 pm by tom66 »
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2014, 12:06:32 am »
That attempt is ludicrous, since they depict a regular smart watch on their blog:

www.ontomax.com/newsarchive/2014/july.htm
www.intellitablet.com/index.htm

There is prior art and commercial products before their claim.
 

Offline zapta

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2014, 04:18:38 am »
Very strange.

I don't actually see a patent under that guy's name that has the claims he lists.  Furthermore, it's far fetched that his claims describe an actual invention rather than just an idea of how a theoretical device could work.

He sounds like some kind of wannabe patent troll / egghead inventor-wannabe.

He is a serial inventor. Probably one of these:

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:%22Christian+Stroetmann%22#q=inassignee%3A%22Christian+Stroetmann%22&hl=en&tbm=pts&start=20
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2014, 05:20:29 am »
Very strange.

I don't actually see a patent under that guy's name that has the claims he lists.  Furthermore, it's far fetched that his claims describe an actual invention rather than just an idea of how a theoretical device could work.

He sounds like some kind of wannabe patent troll / egghead inventor-wannabe.

He is a serial inventor. Probably one of these:

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:%22Christian+Stroetmann%22#q=inassignee%3A%22Christian+Stroetmann%22&hl=en&tbm=pts&start=20


I don't think he is an inventor, I think he is a patent troll.

Check this out:

https://www.google.com/patents/DE202013009033U1

In October of 2013 he files a patent for "Data glasses, having an embedded portable computer system, a power supply, at least a transparent, multi-directional device for the optical signaling of the variable information"

That is Google glass, which was first demo'ed in 2011, and sold as a commercial product to developers in early 2013. 

I think this guy takes advantage of the fact that the patent office (in the USA and likely elsewhere) grants patents on obvious things if there isn't already a patent for it.  This guy seems to take things that are already being made/sold and patents aspects of them (or the whole device).  His hope is probably that companies will license "his IP" or buy his patent (i.e. pay him to go away) rather than deal with a patent fight. 
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline macgyver0815

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2014, 09:45:35 am »
The patent system is sooooooo last century...

He has even patented multi constellation GNSS receivers plus dead reckoning as it seems ;-)
(GPS+GLONASS receivers, which are commercially available since at least 5 years or so - would have to check how long exactly)

https://www.google.com/patents/DE202013009159U1?cl=en&dq=inassignee:%22Christian+Stroetmann%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=9skrVNWHFoWkygPqlYHYAg&ved=0CFsQ6AEwBzgU

Brutally obvious patent troll, but I somehow don't feel sorry for this particular project ;-)

 

Offline PointyOintment

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2014, 06:22:34 am »
For example, flexible lithium polymer type batteries do exist (my university, the University of Leeds has developed ones) but as far as I'm aware, the capacity is very limited - last I'd heard was on the order of 100mAh max. The problem is to make a larger capacity cell (of cell-phone like dimensions) you need to roll the layers in a manner not unlike making an electrolytic capacitor. Bending the battery then can violate the spacing between the layers, which can lead to short circuits and Bad Things™. It's possible to fix the form factor of a LiPo (Nike+ fuelband has curved LiPos) but only during manufacture. It can't be changed while in use.

Curved OLED panels do exist but only in very large sizes (55" for TVs, etc.)  No manufacturer is selling flexible OLED panels of any form factor. Prototypes have been demonstrated at low densities. Many such displays suffer from repeated stress. The bonding on the chip-on-glass fails after many flexing operations, leading to stuck lines on the panel.
Those both exist with practical specs and have been used in production by a major manufacturer.

Offline miguelvp

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2014, 07:03:22 am »
I thought the IPhone 6+ was the first flexible smartphone :)

Too soon?
 

Offline Wilksey

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2014, 12:25:34 pm »
I thought the IPhone 6+ was the first flexible smartphone :)

Too soon?

Too late!  ;D See post #11
 

Offline tom66

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Re: too good to be true? The Portal flexible smartphone?
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2014, 10:45:09 am »
Those both exist with practical specs and have been used in production by a major manufacturer.

Perhaps I should have clarified. No technologies exist to demonstrate the flexibility of the Portal specification.
You can build some components with a little bit of flexibility (or flexibility in one axis like for G Flex), but ultimately you're limited by currently available technology.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 11:29:36 am by tom66 »
 


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