Author Topic: Triton Artificial Gills  (Read 64100 times)

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Offline Kilrah

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #175 on: April 13, 2016, 03:56:43 pm »
2nd from me. Can't wait to get my nothing!

Wait, did you ask for two nothings?
I feel cheated already!
Yep and he's offering me the 2nd one! But then he bought one from me again, so don't be jealous  ;)
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #176 on: April 14, 2016, 04:19:51 pm »
Aww damn, just got a refund, his campaign has been closed by IGG it seems...

Ironic how they'll close "safe" campaigns for being copies, but leave obvious scams untouched  :-//
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 04:21:26 pm by Kilrah »
 

Offline Khendrask

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #177 on: April 14, 2016, 04:50:06 pm »
Not to worry, it is back:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/triton-world-s-last-artificial-gills-scam/x/13639189#/

Just without the "Patented" graphic.

And txt29 says he had over 2200 views before it was pulled, then restored.
 
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Offline Kalidor

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #178 on: April 18, 2016, 10:38:24 am »
 >:D The TriChicken  >:D
https://youtu.be/lXv_AohVUcQ

..not only Triton can fake underwater videos, jump to 1:15 to see how they did it.
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 
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Offline Kalidor

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #179 on: April 18, 2016, 11:00:25 am »
Indigogo blocked them again, they cannot delete comments and the perk section is down.  :box:
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #180 on: April 19, 2016, 12:23:50 am »
Triton are saying that they are working to meet the DOT 49 standards for the shipping of Liquid Oxygen, so I took a look. As well as the outright "forbidden" status for passenger and cargo plane transport, the DOT 49 173.102 requires that liquid oxygen cylinders meet the T22 special provision - that is a minimum wall thickness of 10mm.

Considering that these cylinders will require a phase separator (since the specifications require that the vent is in contact with only the vapour phase - not the liquid phase), plus properly rated, tested and approved pressure release and venting valves, I would say there is not actually much room left for liquid oxygen.

DOT 49 173.102 T22 also prohibits a bottom opening or vent on any LOX container, so I assume Triton will have to have a gimballed housing for the LOX cylinders that prevents the cylinders from ever being up-side-down.

Others have already raised many of the other practical and legal problems in transporting LOX.
12 days to go and Indiegogo are investigating. The investigation includes information they have received on both the dangerous nature of liquid O2 and the impossibility of the product. It is hard to see how any investigation can come to any conclusion but to cancel the project.

Even if Triton are a bunch of Nobel Prize worthy geniuses, and have some physics-shattering not-yet-patented technology, I cannot see how this campaign can be allowed until Triton are in a position to openly answer questions.

I cannot imagine an up-side for Indiegogo for allowing the campaign to complete, unless they were stupid enough to sign a special deal with Triton to get the original money refunded for the first campaign. It is interesting that all the recent posts on the Triton campaign are negative - have Indiegogo stopped the deletion of posts?
 

Offline edavid

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #181 on: April 19, 2016, 01:05:33 am »
I had a good laugh over this:

Quote
tom
5 days ago
What is the shelf life of a canister and approximately how long will a canister last?

Saeed Khademi
Campaigner 5 days ago
Hi Tom, the shelf life is 3 months, and each canister will work 2 X 45 minutes, have a great day,

And you don't even have to keep it in the freezer :)
 

Offline ChunkyPastaSauce

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #182 on: April 19, 2016, 01:36:38 am »
I had a good laugh over this:

Quote
tom
5 days ago
What is the shelf life of a canister and approximately how long will a canister last?

Saeed Khademi
Campaigner 5 days ago
Hi Tom, the shelf life is 3 months, and each canister will work 2 X 45 minutes, have a great day,

And you don't even have to keep it in the freezer :)

 :palm:  lol
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #183 on: April 19, 2016, 02:05:47 am »
Why are they even on IGG? They could get rich selling this to space technology companies. LOX is much more efficient than traditional storable propellants, but can't be stored on orbit for any real length of time so its only practical for launch, not for extended duration propulsion modules. They would be all over this magical cyrogenic storage tech.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #184 on: April 19, 2016, 02:50:07 am »
Because IGG is the only place where they can find people ignorant enough to buy into their non-existent and nowhere-close-to-arriving "tech"...

Envoyé de mon SM-G930F en utilisant Tapatalk

 

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Offline amspire

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #186 on: April 19, 2016, 04:04:50 am »
To be fair to Indiegogo, ......    :-DD  Sorry, I will try and keep a straight face.

to be fair to Indiegogo, the particular Triton review they started on the 14th may include a list of questions to be sent to Triton that they will have to answer. Even if it seems obvious, there will be a procedure that has to be followed. Triton may not be the quickest responders when it comes to technical information, but I am hoping that the money will be locked until convincing answers come back from Triton. If there are no good answers, I am hoping Indiegogo will cancel the campaign.  If they do block the campaign, they can decide to disallow any future campaigns from to people involved. It is possible that Indiegogo may have realised they have a problem, and they are taking their time to get their facts and arguments right.

If Indiegogo accept answers like - "I cannot tell you - it's a secret", then there is not much hope for  Indiegogo.   

By the way, here is a quote from Indiegogo concerning the review into Triton:

"If the project doesn't follow our rules, we may remove the campaign".  :palm:
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 04:21:35 am by amspire »
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #187 on: April 19, 2016, 04:56:35 am »
I had a good laugh over this:

Quote
tom
5 days ago
What is the shelf life of a canister and approximately how long will a canister last?

Saeed Khademi
Campaigner 5 days ago
Hi Tom, the shelf life is 3 months, and each canister will work 2 X 45 minutes, have a great day,

And you don't even have to keep it in the freezer :)

And they say they will be selling the canisters for $17.99     :-DD

You can't even buy a good steel vacuum hot drinks bottle for that!  Empty!


These people cannot be for real. This is some kind of practical joke or something.

(of course the steel thermos bottle comes with a nice handy cup..... )

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #188 on: April 19, 2016, 05:51:50 am »
I'll just leave this old gem here...

« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 11:54:59 am by Kilrah »
 
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Offline Khendrask

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #189 on: April 19, 2016, 11:19:26 am »
If you check the comments section on the Triton campaign, it seems that the tri-team has gone dark for the past couple days. 
Lots of negative comments showing up, without being censored...

And if IGG does ANYTHING, they will probably try to once again "restructure" the campaign to be something else that can sucker in cash.  IGG has a serious stake in this, they don't want to actually lose anything that suckers are going to contribute to.
 

Offline edy

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #190 on: April 19, 2016, 11:11:01 pm »
I don't understand, how did we get from tapping the oxygen dissolved in water to using mini portable oxygen tanks?   :-//

Wasn't the idea of Triton to filter water for the oxygen dissolved in it? Did they back-track on this claim and go to some portable liquid oxygen tank concept?

Obviously that opens up a whole other set of issues, not to mention that 100% oxygen is not breathable, it is toxic. There will need to be nitrogen in the mix or another gas. Even if they use liquid air, when a gas under pressure is evaporated, heat is drawn out of the liquid and surrounding fixtures to expand the gas.... causing a big drop in temperature. 

Either way, if they just take a simple scuba system and miniaturize it, you will just have a much shorter duration to be able to dive from. Scuba tanks normally have compressed air that has been filtered and dehumidified.... It is not liquid, just denser gas.

Based on some online resources (example http://scuba.about.com/od/scuba101/p/How-Long-Does-A-Scuba-Tank-Last.htm), a regular 80 cubic ft scuba tank will last about 45-60 minutes on an average dive within safe limits. Now imagine taking 1/10th of that volume like something that will fit in the Triton.... we are talking 6 minutes worth of compressed air?

Now with respect to Dewer flasks (insulated cryogenic bottles), tanks, liquid versus compressed, cooled versus room temperature.... Triton is basically just blowing more smoke up everyone's ARSE at this point.  :wtf: I don't think they know crap all about what they are doing and inventing things as they go along. Extracting breathable air from whatever source they want to use is going to be a complicated task.

You cannot simply strap some cryogenically cooled air on to your face while you swim around and expect to breathe the evaporation. You also can't just throw a couple of tanks with compressed air on your face unless you are doing what the scuba people are doing and limit yourself to 6 minutes of air for a tiny tank. Nevermind the fact that you have to fill them up each time, the cost is going to be astronomical.

You are better off creating a floating "air supply" with a tube going down to your mouth and towing it behind you as you swim. That would pump air from the atmosphere down (like the old diving helmets).... Hey, I think I discovered a new IndieGogo campaign.... Time to start some renderings and making videos...  >:D
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Offline edy

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #191 on: April 19, 2016, 11:23:07 pm »
I'll just leave this old gem here...



 :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD

This video.....  Oh My GOD!

Man, I'm too young.... I completely missed out on the "good old days".  :palm:  I can't believe that was a government training film. If I ever played a video like that today for safety training at work, they would "have my ass" (and not in a good way).  :palm:

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Offline Kalidor

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #192 on: April 20, 2016, 01:48:49 am »


 :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD  :-DD

This video.....  Oh My GOD!

Man, I'm too young.... I completely missed out on the "good old days".  :palm:  I can't believe that was a government training film. If I ever played a video like that today for safety training at work, they would "have my ass" (and not in a good way).  :palm:

Even better one from Germany, you will understand it even if you don't speak German.
https://youtu.be/9z77oztO6UQ
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #193 on: April 20, 2016, 03:16:09 am »
The good old Klaus... one of my all time favorites!  :-DD
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 03:38:23 am by Kilrah »
 

Offline edy

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #194 on: April 20, 2016, 03:32:16 am »
 :-DD

That's a real safety video??? ... Every scene was funnier than the previous until by the end I just couldn't believe it was real. Wow! I don't understand any German but that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen (in a disgusting sort of way). I guess the purpose is met... Nobody who sees it will every forget about safety!  :-+
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Online SeanB

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #195 on: April 20, 2016, 04:37:58 pm »
Interesting aside, as an avionics instrument technician we were prohibited from using any polish on our work shoes.  Was bad for my instructor one fine day to send me to read every squadron standing order on file ( around 50 years of them) as I did get to this one eventually, dating from somewhere in the 1980's. Read it, copied it and put it up on the notice board as well in the office. RSM did his nut the next week when we turned up on parade with non polished shoes. Even more when referred to the instruction in his file. Just had to make sure they were dust free....... Just had to make sure every time I saw him in non work shoes that they were shiny, and the metal parts of the uniform shone.

Came about because of an incident where somebody had a bad burn to the feet from burning shoes from a LOX leak during refilling.

For smokers we would sneak out the pack of cigarettes without them noticing, then go and pour some LOX in the pack, then sneak it back. Next time they lit up it would burn down to the filter in under 10 seconds.....

ps Careful handling things in LOX gloves, I broke the snake that was in the lox trolley after I dropped it while picking it up, after it got around 5l of vented LOX dumped on it from a flight tank vent. Oops..... Shattered like it was glass.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #196 on: April 21, 2016, 12:55:41 am »
:-DD

That's a real safety video??? ... Every scene was funnier than the previous until by the end I just couldn't believe it was real. Wow! I don't understand any German but that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen (in a disgusting sort of way). I guess the purpose is met... Nobody who sees it will every forget about safety!  :-+

Unfortunately it's not a "real" safety video but it's instead a parody of such films created for a short film contest. However, it has gone on to be used as a safety film (in an attention-grabbing way) so you could say it's come full circle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forklift_Driver_Klaus_%E2%80%93_The_First_Day_on_the_Job
 
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Offline Delta

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #197 on: April 21, 2016, 01:41:27 am »
I've not watch that clip yet - I don't need to!  The Man from LOX is permanently ingrained in me from my aviation days  :clap:

"The safety officer's going to have my ass!"
 

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #198 on: April 21, 2016, 01:47:22 am »
Wasn't the idea of Triton to filter water for the oxygen dissolved in it? Did they back-track on this claim and go to some portable liquid oxygen tank concept?

Yep, that's exactly what they did  :palm:
 

Offline amspire

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Re: Triton Artificial Gills
« Reply #199 on: April 21, 2016, 06:20:41 am »
Their campaign still has information and video on how oxygen can be extracted from water with a microfilter, even though they are now using liquid oxygen. I hadn't realised they had posted youtube videos in Jan 2014 and from then to this year, all the descriptions involved extracting oxygen from water. They explicitly said the microfilters were for excluding water molecules, so that rules out the idea of filtering out C02 from expelled air and recycling the oxygen. They don't have a reservoir anyway and the videos showed all the expelled air going up in big bubbles.

A thing about the timing is that in April 2013, the University of Illinois announced their experimental Lithium battery, and at one point, a spokeperson mentioned how it could potentially charge 1000 times faster and be 30 times smaller then current batteries.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/crowd-funded-projects/triton-artificial-gills/msg907141/#msg907141

Triton claim their project started one month later in May 2013 with batteries that could "charge 1000 times faster and be 30 times smaller" than existing batteries. One month is a pretty good effort to turn a very experimental button-sized low capacity batteries into commercial high capacity batteries. What Triton didn't understand is that the spokeperson for the batteries meant 30 times higher peak current for a given size, but the capacity is no better then current batteries. In fact the capacity of the experimental battery was 1/10th of current batteries.

Amazing how the smallest of mistakes like the non-existent batteries, the inadequacy of microfilters and the impossibility of liquid oxygen can bring a brilliant design down. At least they have the CAD drawings for a microfilter design that doesn't work, the explanation videos that they admit were totally wrong and BMX bicycle grips.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 06:25:51 am by amspire »
 


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