Author Topic: tiq probe - did not fund on Kickstarter - but will be going into production!  (Read 47597 times)

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Offline tom66

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #50 on: April 21, 2014, 08:45:06 pm »
What is the amplitude of the pulses produced? Is it configurable? What's the output impedance? Will it survive a shorted load, and survive pulsing into the rated DC range (-13V to +28V)?
 

Offline codeboy2k

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Being designed and actual practical experience are different things...

There's a lot of people online posting that they are having problems with the micro-usb, you just have to google to see it. I acknowledge that. However, I attribute it to the larger deployment of the micro-usb vs the mini connector.  The mini-usb was short lived in the market place.. it's all but gone now.  There are billions of micro-usb connectors deployed, so naturally there will be a larger number of problems reported with the connector, and this is why people see the micro connector as worse than the mini (in general).  In my own experience, I have 1 device with a mini connector, and 5 devices with a micro connector, and I use the same charger for all 5 devices. I only realized the significance of this today.  The micro-usb cable I use sees more action than the mini-usb cable does, so the micro will wear out faster.  Your situation (and others' ) might be similar.

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Anyhow, there is no problem to use micro-USB for data connection (which is connected every once in a while), but don't use it with a stiff cable for power. That's a really horrible idea.

I agree.  I don't want a stiff cable hanging off the back either. 
 

Offline all_repair

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2014, 09:05:51 pm »
Sound like it can be a useful tool. 

Probe may need to be longer and sharper.  Longer to reach deeper, sharper to pierce through laminated or oxidised point.  I assume one of the buttons can "hold" the display of the measurement.

Can't find the ground wire in the demo video. With the ground wire probably in front and microusb  behind, one shall need to see more video to feel the ease of handling.
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #53 on: April 21, 2014, 10:30:10 pm »
@tom66
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What is the amplitude of the pulses produced? Is it configurable? What's the output impedance? Will it survive a shorted load, and survive pulsing into the rated DC range (-13V to +28V)?

The pulse generator output is located in the utility header toward the rear of the probe (not via the main probe tip - see attached picture). This is to allow use of the pulse generator to provide stimulus to the DUT while the pulse analyzer can be used to view the output or response. Or the pulse gen can just be used to provide a signal to simulate something else (like a sensor, PWM input etc.).

This means that the pulse output is not exposed to the conditions on the probe tip (like the full DC voltmeter range of tiq).

The pulse gen output is configurable via the user menus to be 5V or 3.3V logic levels (and the setting is retained in EEPROM).

The output is a conventional logic output with a 4mA source and sink capability. It is protected with a small series resistor and Schottky clamps to the power rails.

@all_repair:

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Sound like it can be a useful tool... Probe may need to be longer and sharper.

Thanks! In practice tiq is very convenient and easier to use than traditional alternatives.

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Probe may need to be longer and sharper.

For the KS model I'm actively looking at alternatives that provide some options for the tip.


As noted previously, you have 3 ground choices available:

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For those wondering about ground connections, tiq has 3: 1) through the USB cable (which can be to a floating USB charger or USB battery), 2) one pin of the 3 pin header accessible through the top of the unit near the rear (see attached picture - one of the other pins is the pulse generator output) and 3) pin header adjacent to the probe (see picture).

Mark
 

Offline tom66

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #54 on: April 22, 2014, 12:21:37 am »
The pulse generator output is located in the utility header toward the rear of the probe (not via the main probe tip - see attached picture). This is to allow use of the pulse generator to provide stimulus to the DUT while the pulse analyzer can be used to view the output or response. Or the pulse gen can just be used to provide a signal to simulate something else (like a sensor, PWM input etc.).

This means that the pulse output is not exposed to the conditions on the probe tip (like the full DC voltmeter range of tiq).

The pulse gen output is configurable via the user menus to be 5V or 3.3V logic levels (and the setting is retained in EEPROM).

This seems awkward though; so if I want to use it as a pulse gen, I need another lead in my toolbox to lose? Could you add a relay to the board which could switch in the pulse generator to the probe tip?  That way, you can put the pulse gen on a pin directly rather than using the hook probe (which won't work at all with an SMD leg.) Obviously, if the relay is engaged, hide the readout.

You could still have both options, so keep the header if you like. If you add the relay, you'd only need to add a few additional protection components, maybe a 470R series resistor 1/2W rated (1206/1812) or higher and diodes will be fine. A little SMD relay 5mm x 8mm is about $2 in 100u on digikey and operates from 3V or 5V DC.

Also: if you use schottky clamps, make sure to add a zener on your board, too. Otherwise, it's possible to back-power the board & USB port if the current fed into the output exceeds the current consumption over USB, which would be bad... I'm guessing tiq uses on the order of 50mA if not less, so that wouldn't be too hard to do.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 01:31:58 am by tom66 »
 

Offline purfield

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2014, 12:24:59 am »
Hi Mark,
I think this is a pretty neat device.  I personally think it would be nice to have the RGB LED reflect a test condition.  For example, maybe I'm trying to track down a problem related to a 1 Mhz clock signal and 100 different test points to check.  If the LED would light up green when the probe detects the 1Mhz clock, that would make it a lot quicker/easier to check all 100 points instead of reading off the screen every time. 

It's probably just feature creep you should avoid though.  I'm sure we could all come up with things we'd like to see in this device, but you can't please everybody.  :)
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #56 on: April 22, 2014, 12:57:42 am »
@tom66:

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Could you add a relay to the board which could switch in the pulse generator

Thanks, that's an interesting idea, on the future features list.

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if you use schottky clamps, make sure to add a zener on your board, too. Otherwise, it's possible to back-power the board & USB port

Thanks, yes, tiq has a back-power preventer.

Cheers -

Mark
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #57 on: April 22, 2014, 01:01:41 am »
@purfield:

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I think this is a pretty neat device. 

Thanks! It does make life easier...

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it would be nice to have the RGB LED reflect a test condition

That's interesting, it sounds useful. My knee-jerk reaction is that making the setup easy (for all the possible cases) might just exceed the practical range of tiq's user interface?! But I'd like to think about this "test mask" type functionality some more....

Cheers -

Mark
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #58 on: April 22, 2014, 02:10:07 am »
I'm attaching a 1 page Quick Reference chart which shows the screens and the configuration menus for tiq.

Enjoy -

Mark
 

Offline hedley

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #59 on: April 22, 2014, 06:34:58 am »
I think the comments re the connector have been made , understood and responded to . I look forward to test driving this innovative instrument and am sure that after a successful Kickstarter more versions will be in the works that will enhance the functionality and include suggestions on the forum . My key change for later versions would be battery power which  makes more usable and hopefully puts the usb connector to bed.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2014, 08:14:08 am »
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I look forward to test driving this innovative instrument

Not me. Sod this testing phase thing - I want to buy one RIGHT NOW and I don't care who I have to kiss to get one  :box:
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2014, 03:50:59 pm »
@hedley, dunkemhigh:

Thanks for the encouragement (dunkemhigh - no kisses required!!!?!) - KS have ok'd the project, working on the final prep to go live - targeting next week!

Keep probing -

Mark
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #62 on: April 22, 2014, 04:34:27 pm »
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final prep to go live - targeting next week!

Cool! Please let us know here first - for once I'd like to be able to get in the 'super special limited edition and dirt cheap' perk group :)
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #63 on: April 22, 2014, 08:56:05 pm »
@dunkemhigh:

EEVbloggers have given great input and support, so I commit to announcing here on EEVblog immediately before KS goes live, and before I announce this on any other board/media!

tiq is still smarting from being called "bulky" a while back - his comment to the attached picture is "Bulky, REALLY???"  :)

Cheers -

Mark
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #64 on: April 22, 2014, 09:31:54 pm »
Cheers, Mark  :-+

Ummm... about the bulk thing. I reckon it's the sharp corners and edges that might make it look ..ah.. boxy. Perhaps if they could be more contoured it would look slimmer but also look more comfortable to hold.
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #65 on: April 23, 2014, 04:59:38 pm »
Attaching a diagram of prototype tiq's user interface and I/Os.

Mark
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - bridging the gap between DMMs and 'scopes
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2014, 05:53:55 am »
Spent a day sweating over the toaster oven ;)  Big shout out to the folks at Rocket Scream for their GREAT Arduino toaster controller!

Prototype tiqs rolling off the line and ready for our beta testers!

Good night -

Mark
 

Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2014, 12:50:59 am »
Many thanks t the thousands (!) of EEVbloggers who viewed and commented on tiq over the last couple of weeks!

As promised, you are the first community to be notified - tiq is going live on KS today (I'm pushing the button in the next hour, not sure how long takes KS to activate!?!)!!!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1866698905/tiq-probe-a-new-way-to-debug-electronics-projects


Your continued support and encouragement is hugely appreciated!

Best regards and thanks -

Mark

=============================
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 01:00:58 am by markhen »
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2014, 02:18:52 am »
Thank you  :-+

Pledged  8)
 

Offline fcb

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #69 on: April 28, 2014, 09:37:06 am »
Backed. :-+

Good luck with it Mark, hope to play with it in September.

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #70 on: April 28, 2014, 09:58:04 am »
I think serial decode/baud+polarity identify (and manual override) would be a very useful addition
Can you override the "outside-logic level" voltage warning? You may want to probe pulses at different voltages, e.g. RS232, 1.8V etc.
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Offline markhen

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #71 on: April 28, 2014, 04:34:28 pm »
@dunkemhigh, fcb and others:

Huge thanks to early backers here on EEVblog! First 12 hours significantly exceeded expectations, very exciting!

@mikeselectricstuff:
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Can you override the "outside-logic level" voltage warning? You may want to probe pulses at different voltages, e.g. RS232, 1.8V etc.

Re: "outside logic level warning" - for voltages >5V or <0V tiq displays the actual probe voltage, and turns the LED red. The LED can be configured to "off" if that warning is not wanted. So you can probe RS232 etc. VOLTAGES, no problem. But tiq doesn't try to decode the logic level or analyze pulses for signals not in the 0V-5V window. Let me think about ways that tiq pulse analysis could be done outside the 0-5 range...

Currently tiq supports 3.3V logic and 5V logic, I'm evaluating whether 2.5V and 1.8V can be incorporated into the KS version (if not, there will be a future version with this capability). You can use tiq to examine 2.5V and 1.8V logic LEVELS, since the low will be decoded, and for the high you can read directly off the voltmeter. However, tiq will not register 1.8 pulses, and will miss some 2.5 pulses (2.0V Vt) so the pulse analyzer won't work in these cases.

Agree on the serial port ID/detect usefulness, won't be in the KS model, but will try out some algorithms to see how this works in practice, for a future model.

@mojo-chan:
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Most objects designed to be held in the hand have rounded edges for comfort.

Definitely looking at ways to make the KS model more ergonomic, "rounded" is something everyone asks for  :)

Thanks to all -

Mark
 

Offline tom66

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #72 on: April 28, 2014, 06:35:50 pm »
Will the relay probe pulse output be on this version?
IMHO, not supporting 1.8V would be a mistake.
 

Offline electronic_eel

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #73 on: April 28, 2014, 07:02:54 pm »
Thanks for announcing the probe here. But I won't make a pledge for this probe, because I don't think it is ready for production in a bigger lot yet:
  • USB cable for power always hanging off the back, makes it unhandy. Missing an internal battery option.
  • Not OSHW, so I can't fix problems myself and there is no way a community could build around this hardware
  • 1.8V and 2.5V logic level support missing
  • too many of the features requested in this thread are pushed to a next version so you'll probably need to buy another probe in the near future if you want those
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: tiq probe - NOW going LIVE on KickStarter! (April 27th)
« Reply #74 on: April 28, 2014, 07:58:58 pm »

Currently tiq supports 3.3V logic and 5V logic, I'm evaluating whether 2.5V and 1.8V can be incorporated into the KS version (if not, there will be a future version with this capability). You can use tiq to examine 2.5V and 1.8V logic LEVELS, since the low will be decoded, and for the high you can read directly off the voltmeter. However, tiq will not register 1.8 pulses, and will miss some 2.5 pulses (2.0V Vt) so the pulse analyzer won't work in these cases.

Hard to see what the difficulty is here - surely all you need is a comparator and a simple PWM DAC to set the threshold...?
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