Author Topic: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video  (Read 3442 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« on: July 19, 2018, 07:10:21 pm »
Not electronic, but...
https://youtu.be/EfheHKaRF10
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Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2018, 09:03:17 pm »


Thinking of patenting a wind-up bicycle with wind turbine powered lights. That should sell like hot cakes to the planet-saving brigade.
 
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Offline edy

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2018, 03:40:44 am »
I watched the video and looked at the campaign. The main selling points they seem to make are that people should use "powered" toothbrushes instead of manual, and that if they are going to go powered, it should be mechanical power so as not to use electricity or waste batteries. Ok, I get it. Now there are a bunch of issues I have with the product which I want to elaborate on.

1. POWERED vs. MANUAL

Yes powered brushes when used properly are a benefit but their claim of being "superior" than any other manual or electric brush *when used properly* is completely false. There is nothing magical about this brush and I would argue that the shape of the head and handle are actually not ergonomic at all. Granted, since most people have no clue what they are doing when they brush, the manual would be less effective simply because they are not oscillating enough, not spending enough time brushing, and probably using too large a brush head and more toothpaste than they actually need. At least with a powered brush there are some factors that motivate and educate and constrain the user to proper use (hopefully).


2. ELECTRIC vs. MECHANICAL/SPRING

If you are going powered, an electrical one with a built in rechargeable battery is vastly superior in a number of ways. First, the circuitry ensures the brush operates at a constant rate throughout most of the battery discharge. You can typically get 1, 2 or even 3 weeks without having to charge the brush. Most people will keep it on the charger. I don't, I charge it and then take it off and will not put it back on the "charging base" until several weeks later when it has depleted. Electric brushes, when battery is too low to provide the proper rate, are usually designed not even to turn on and will instruct the user to charge them.

Second, a standard good entry-level electric will usually have a timer built in that will signal to the user 3 minutes. Most will also give some indication of 45 second intervals so that you can pace yourself when brushing the 4 quadrants of the mouth. Third, a rechargeable electrical brush will last for a very long time when treated properly and should have little impact on the environment. If you can change the heads and the internal battery is NiMH or Li-Ion they can be cycled for many years. I have no issues with this level of "waste" on my conscience, given all the other crap we typically waste and do to pollute the environment.

I also don't trust that the mechanical powered one has the ability to stay on for the required 3 minutes that is recommended. It certainly doesn't deliver any audible signal to warn you every 45 seconds. Does it "peter out" as it continues to operate? They claim 120g pressure is recommended and the brush will "stop" working if you press harder. Maybe that is true at the beginning, but after 10, 20, 30 seconds... the spring unwinding, you really think it will be calibrated still to "stop" at 120g? If you are just fighting against the torque, I promise you it will be easier to stop the brush head as the spring unwinds. It's all B-S.


3 WATERPROOFING

I have seen nothing on the water-proofing of this brush and that is going to be a sticking point for some people. Most electrical brushes are completely sealed and can be used underwater, in the shower, etc. This mechanical one has a rotating "crank" base which I figure will let water in, and eventually rust or clock up the mechanism. It also has a replaceable head and I am curious as to how they couple the handle-motor-mechanism with the brush-head without creating a potential opening for water to leak in.

Electric brushes come in two flavours... oscillatory (usually a motor turns and wobbles a tip back and forth that engages the head), and vibratory electromagnetic (like Sonicare, circuitry creates the necessary signals to an electromagnetic mechanism that vibrates a tip which again couples to a head that then transmits the vibrations to the bristles). In either case, there are various O-rings, rubber gaskets and all sorts of seals at the tip to prevent water from getting into the brush. Also, the actual "interface" where the moving part exits the brush is far from the mouth... basically at the handle, 2-3 inches away. The actual 2-3 inch replaceable brushhead tip lets water all through it usually but that doesn't matter. This brush seems to have the interface connection right under the actual small tiny rotating head which is inside the mouth full of toothpaste and fluids.


4. "CHEAP-O" USER-REPLACEABLE BATTERY BRUSHES  vs.  ELECTRIC REPUTABLE BRUSH (Oral-B, Sonicare)

What I can't stand are those cheap-o battery-powered brushes where you have to slip in AA or AAA batteries in the handle yourself. They typically do NOT have a timer, do NOT have a replaceable head, and do NOT work consistently but tend to go slower and slower as the batteries deplete. If you are arguing against THOSE brushes I would agree with the "BE Brush" people that we are wasteful.

But against a standard entry-level Philips Sonicare or an Oral-B, which have NiMH or Li-Ion battery, replaceable head and timers built in? No way... they are the best bang for the buck. You can typically buy any standard fare entry-level one for $20-40 at Walmart which has all the necessities. The more expensive ones have various other bells and whistles but they are just a bonus. These "BE" Brush people want to sell you their brush for $50? $60? $70?


5. REPLACEABLE HEADS and BIODEGRADEABLE

I had a closer look, and it appears the "replaceable" part is only that small round part at the end of the brush that has the bristles on it, NOT the extended part that comes off the base. Most of the electric brushes consider the "head" to be the last 2-3 inches of the brush along with the actual bristle part. There is a reason for this. That part ends up in your mouth and over time will get nasty. And if you want to share the brush with other family members, people will often have different heads (color coded) that they slip on and off the handle. The handle never enters your mouth, but the last 2-3 inches does and it is a good idea that it gets replaced. Also, as I mentioned before, the interface between the handle and the brushhead is outside the mouth, that potential area where fluid can get in. This "BE" brush has it right under the little circle plastic part.

This "BE" brush only changes that little round circular plastic base that has bristles sticking out. How exactly does it stay on? That means that the flat-looking 2-3 inches at the end is part of the handle and cannot be replaced. That enters your mouth all the time. Apart from the bulkiness and ergonomics and sharp edged design and shape of the thing, that neck just looks too thick. Also, if that little tip dislodges or loosens you can end up choking on it.


IN CONCLUSION...

Let's say this thing actually does last 3 minutes, I doubt it works at a constant speed/torque for the entire time. I believe "pressure" on the head will slow it down or stop it at ever-decreasing pressures as the spring unwinds. I have an issue with the lack of signals during the brushing cycle to pace yourself. I have an issue with the ergonomic design and size of the handle, and concerned about the water-proofing, and choking hazard of the tiny replaceable brush-head if it falls off. I think for all of the "marketing hype" and B-S coming out of this campaign about environmental and biodegradeable and so on.... It seems to be inferior in actually what you want such a product to do, which is BRUSH YOUR TEETH PROPERLY.

If you really want to be ZERO or LOW-FOOTPRINT ENVIRONMENT and want battery-free, get a 3-minute wind-up EGG-TIMER and a manual brush and learn how to brush properly. The end.  :-DD







« Last Edit: July 27, 2018, 03:52:16 am by edy »
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2018, 04:52:36 pm »
Quote
I also don't trust that the mechanical powered one has the ability to stay on for the required 3 minutes that is recommended. It certainly doesn't deliver any audible signal to warn you every 45 seconds. Does it "peter out" as it continues to operate? They claim 120g pressure is recommended and the brush will "stop" working if you press harder. Maybe that is true at the beginning, but after 10, 20, 30 seconds... the spring unwinding, you really think it will be calibrated still to "stop" at 120g? If you are just fighting against the torque, I promise you it will be easier to stop the brush head as the spring unwinds. It's all B-S.

Mechanical speed regulation is simple, clocks do it all the time. Clockwork can get really sophisticated, just look inside a mechanical automatic tachometer. You could make a mechanism that stops and dings if it doesn't have wnough power to maintain speed. Mechanical torque regulation is also entirely possible using speed detection and clutches. 3 minutes I'm not sure about, you'd have to calculate the maximum energy for the strongest spring of that size. However, unlike an electric toothbrush which would have few moving parts, a clockwork toothbrush would be full of them (and tiny ones at that) and therefore probably quite fragile. It might not even survive being dropped in the sink, let alone on the floor, making it a novelty at best.
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Offline edy

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2018, 11:12:19 pm »
From the comment section... updated 1 day ago....


Quote
Sally Scott Rector
1 day ago
Ben. George. Listen. ~$half-million + one year. If the answer to this equation = “highly anticipated meeting” & still in the “plan” stage offering backers digital “concept renderings,” how is this appropriate for Kickstarter or ANY OTHER FUNDING PLATFORM? It’s time for all of us to kiss our money goodbye. Period. As for the fraud committed by Goodwell Co., recently based in Portland Oregon, maybe the OR Attorney General needs to be involved. My $49 no big deal. Half a million dollars? Very big deal.

I cannot see the Updates section as I am not a backer, but it sounds like it is done.


After these shysters took in $423,143 on Kickstarter...


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/goodwell/be-the-first-battery-free-powered-toothbrush/description


they moved over to IndieGoGo, to scam more money out of people.... taking in another $520,725 back in July 2018.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-first-battery-free-powered-toothbrush#/

Close to a million...

When did this whole sh!tshow start? Fall 2017? We are heading into 2019... still nothing to show.

They have a website and store though... what's up with that? Are they trying to sell directly now too and defraud people or do they actually have a product?

https://thegoodwellcompany.com/products/be
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 11:14:48 pm by edy »
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Online ebastler

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2018, 09:45:37 pm »
They have a website and store though... what's up with that? Are they trying to sell directly now too and defraud people or do they actually have a product?
https://thegoodwellcompany.com/products/be

"Ships Spring 2019" says the product page.
But I have good news for you: They will take your money for pre-orders!  ::)
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2018, 09:48:06 pm »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2018, 11:35:36 pm »
Oh, and the poor sods are having "cash flow issues":
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/goodwell/be-the-first-battery-free-powered-toothbrush/posts/2333773


Just in case it gets pulled:

Quote
A few weeks ago we promised an update on our delivery timeline. Today, we can say that unfortunately, we will not hit our December 2018 ship date. This project is taking longer than expected, but we are not going anywhere. We will not rest until Be. is delivered to the world!


Along with delays in the DFM phase we are also having cash flow issues. Up until this update we were confident that a solution to our cash problem was imminent. That solution has not materialized though, and we must adjust our expectations.

From the beginning we knew we were going to need more than just Kickstarter funds. Although we raised a significant amount of what we needed, it’s extremely expensive to all together invent, innovate, and produce a new product all at the same time. To give you a sense of cost, Be. raised $423,143 on Kickstarter and here’s how that money was spent:


As you can see, we’ve spent more on this project than we’ve raised from Kickstarter. The reason why we are still up and running and moving forward is that Be. is just one product sold by us, The Goodwell Company.

Over the last year we’ve been directing profits from The Goodwell Company into the Be. project. Up until now that extra boost + Kickstarter has been enough to keep us rolling, but with final DFM engineering costs due, tooling due, and production purchase orders due there is a gap wider than what Goodwell Co. and Kickstarter can fill on its own.

Here’s what that gap looks like:


The fact that this gap exists is not news to us. We have been counting on it and simultaneously pursuing THREE ways to fill it. What is new is that today we are changing our expectations and actions to account for the possibility that additional investment may not come.

Here’s what those changed expectations and actions look like:

1. Even More Bootstrapped: We’re upping the ante and cutting to the bone. We need to reduce costs to the lowest amount possible so we can get as much money to Be. as possible. Starting today we’ve cut all salaries and removed all non-essential contractors.

Here’s how those decisions affect you: Timeline: We’ll have more money to bring Be. to market BUT in exchange we’ll have fewer resources, which means it is going to take longer. If we continue forward with ONLY Goodwell profit as funding then we project a delivery time extension of at most 12 months. Backer Updates: One of the positions we had to cut was the contractor we recently hired to produce our weekly backer updates along with overall customer service. We are going to keep our promise to make weekly updates, regardless of the layoffs.

2. Investors: Over the last year we’ve tirelessly pursued a wide range of investment partners. Here’s an outline of the different investor types, where we are currently with them, and how sealing the deal with any one of them might affect the delivery timeline:

Sole investor: We’ve been in regular talks with several CPG conglomerates. They are extremely interested in partnering with The Goodwell Company and giving the Be. Brush all the resources it needs to get into your hands and millions of others. In many ways this option is the one we’ve been waiting for, and it’s just now that we’ve decided we can no longer wait to finalize a deal. These giant companies simply go slow, and we need to act as if the deal will not happen-- even though it still could, at any moment.

Private investor: This is simply a matter of connecting with the right person who both has the financial backing and vision to invest in The Goodwell Company and the Be. Brush. We are in conversation with a few folks but no one has committed, and so, again, we’re moving forward hoping to make a deal but assuming we will not.

SeedInvest: About two weeks ago we began actively raising funds with SeedInvest. Our hope was that it would be as successful as our Kickstarter campaign and in many ways we were counting on it. That has not happened though, in large part, we suspect, this is due to the “fake video” issue rearing its head again. Just when we thought we had gotten beyond that stupid mistake, over the weekend someone posted the now famous YouTube video to our SeedInvest page. Even though we’ve done our best to apologize and show how we’ve learned from this mistake it continues to kick our ass. This is a tough pill to swallow but we know we have only ourselves to blame. In any case, if you’re interested in learning more about supporting Be. through SeedInvest you can learn more here :

https://www.seedinvest.com/goodwell/series.a

3. Debt Financing: We are talking with a number of banks and lenders about collateralized debt financing. Going this route will get Be. to the world faster than bootstrapping alone, but has the downside of very expensive financing costs and added due diligence delays. Nevertheless, if given the option we would take it. 


Shortest delay: We land one of the many investment or loan deals we are working on, get a cash infusement, go as fast as possible on finalizing development and production, ship only a couple months later than promised.

Longest delay: We stay 100% bootstrapped, continue funding Be. development with Goodwell Co. profit and ship our first 7,000+ units to backers up to 1 year later than promised. We think this is a worst case scenario and very unlikely, but it is possible.


Over the last few weeks many of you have voiced your support and excitement for this project. This has been an extremely stressful and emotional year and there’s still a long road ahead. In all of that, your support means more than you might think. Thank you again for backing this project and for continuing to give us your trust and understanding. We are not going anywhere and will not rest until Be. has been delivered to the world.

Respectfully,

-Team Be.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2018, 11:39:52 pm »
This bugs me:

Quote
From the beginning we knew we were going to need more than just Kickstarter funds.




Did they tell the KS backers that?
Even after smashing their $30k goal by more than 10 times.
Even after raising another $521k on Indigogo!


 

Offline edy

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 12:56:56 pm »
My faith in crowd-funding especially after seeing what is going on the past few years is close to ZERO at this point. Sadly, many good people who could benefit from that system are mixed in with those who abuse it. I know there are still those who have faith and I give them credit for supporting makers that crowd-fund, and I guess they need to have a very well-tuned "B.S. meter" to know which projects seem to have the highest likelihood of completion and those that don't, but I don't.

As far as the amount needed to make the BE Toothbrush, you can see with KS and IGG they come close to $1 million in backing, yet they can't deliver a few thousand wind-up brushes to people. Makes you really wonder if they are telling the truth, that you should never back any campaign unless they are able to collect their MINIMUM of at least 10x what you think they need. So that $30k goal should have been a red-flag to anyone wanted to fund on KS. These guys purposefully make it low because they want to make sure they meet the target so they get the money, and perhaps it is also a way to get other would-be backers to buy in because they see they are close to meeting the goal also, and get excited that the project will go forward. If they needed $300k and they were at $150k, other potential backers would not bother rallying in the last few days because they figured they'd never get funded anyways.
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Offline xaxaxa

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 01:36:17 pm »
Makes you really wonder if they are telling the truth, that you should never back any campaign unless they are able to collect their MINIMUM of at least 10x what you think they need. So that $30k goal should have been a red-flag to anyone wanted to fund on KS.

There are quite a few engineering operations that are quite lean, my own included; I've done a kickstarter for some test equipment that requires similar amounts of engineering effort and set my target at $20k; my campaign only just met target and I managed to deliver without any external money input (actually made some profit if you don't account for paying my own salary). It seems to always be the campaigns with close to >$1M funding that fail to deliver.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 01:56:02 pm »
There are quite a few engineering operations that are quite lean, my own included; I've done a kickstarter for some test equipment that requires similar amounts of engineering effort and set my target at $20k; my campaign only just met target and I managed to deliver without any external money input (actually made some profit if you don't account for paying my own salary). It seems to always be the campaigns with close to >$1M funding that fail to deliver.
Maybe that makes sense. End up with a healthy sum of money without strings attached, or invest into your company with a very unsure future with maybe the same result in a year or so? If you have no qualms about dubious business practices and being a sorry human being, cashing out might be attractive. Maybe these lads realised they weren't going to build an empire out of hand cranked toothbrushes.

Of course, there are probably plenty of people who are actually trying and just fail miserably. Getting substantial cash flow can be as much of a liability as a gift, as people without appropriate project management skills can get themselves into hot water much more quickly than would normally be the case. You'd be surprised how quickly large sums of money can be gone while spending it seemingly sensibly.
 
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Online ebastler

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Re: Be toothbrush - blatently faked video
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 06:27:32 pm »
I managed to deliver without any external money input (actually made some profit if you don't account for paying my own salary). It seems to always be the campaigns with close to >$1M funding that fail to deliver.

With that amount of money suddenly available, I'm sure those folks do pay themselves nice salaries for their efforts...
 


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