Author Topic: WaterSeer  (Read 25334 times)

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Online EEVblog

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WaterSeer
« on: October 24, 2016, 10:13:00 am »
Epic take down by Thunderf00t:

 
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Offline Kalidor

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 12:22:09 pm »
It's like Fontus on steroids  |O
For $268 you will get a poster  :palm:
https://igg.me/at/waterseer/x/10280792
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Offline Refrigerator

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 07:03:56 pm »
Yup, again with the wishful thinking. :clap:
I think a better way to save the children would be to give them a proper education so that they don't go to universities with the idea that science is racist because it can't explain black magic, which is totally real and works because reasons.  :blah:
Just started a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Not much in it as of now but more is sure to come :)
 
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Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 07:40:14 pm »
Quote
We invite scientific and technical scrutiny. We all get better by examining and improving our ideas. In fact, we founded VICI Labs to accelerate ideas from ‘Vision to Value’.

The technical aspects of the video actually show how WaterSeer can work, not how it can’t. Anyone who sees water condense on a cold glass or runs an air conditioner knows how this works and how water comes out of the air. When you see something working, you don’t deny it because it doesn’t fit your understanding of the theory. Facts are stubborn things.

The attacks on The National Peace Corps Association, UC Berkeley, The Sutardja Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology, and The Jacobs Institute for Design and Innovation are inappropriate, unprofessional, and unfair. I am confident that their reputation for excellence and working for the public good can withstand any examination. They are certainly more credible, as individuals and as institutions, than the producers of the attack video.

VICI Labs, T3 TigerTech and the people who work in them have a public record. In any case, we stand behind our work and our goals to make the world better by daring greatly and doing things differently. That is why WaterSeer is a not-for-profit initiative and all funds raised go to refining the design, expanding field testing, manufacturing, and deployment to support the WaterSeer Community, early adopters, and all our contributors. The ultimate proof of WaterSeer will be in its performance in daily life.

Finally, personal attacks, particularly on the engineering and design students, is reprehensible in the extreme. It is shameful, particularly when done for entertainment purposes, which appears to be the intention.

We invite you to join us, and join the WaterSeer Community. Perhaps the resources, time and effort developing the attack video could have been spent trying to solve the problem or working to improve the concept. Water access is a daunting, worldwide challenge. It is expanding as populations grow, pollutants spread, aquifers run dry, and the climate changes.

Let’s work to solve this problem.
From their Facebook page. Hilarious.

MOD EDIT: Added quotes so people don't think it's you saying this!
« Last Edit: October 25, 2016, 03:35:30 am by EEVblog »
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Offline Ian.M

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 08:53:46 pm »
Its undeniable that if the sub-surface ground temperature is above the dew point, there will be no condensation in the bottom bulb of the device.  Also, anyone who has ever cleaned an air conditioner condensate tray knows that water condensed from ambient air is full of contaminates especially in arid areas with high dust levels.
 
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Online trophosphere

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2016, 08:54:03 pm »
Thermodynamics aside since Thunderf00t did an excellent job, how are they going to clean the reservoir? The air coming through will be carrying, besides dust and dirt, spores and bacteria. A wet (if it is working) and dark place is a nice environment for mold and bacteria to grow. They could join the ranks of one of the causes of outbreaks of E. coli and Listeria.

Are they going to have to dig the thing up and clean it? Inject bactericides/fungicides and then have to use water from another source to flush it? Add on a filtration system that will require additional initial cost and ongoing maintenance? Who is going to be trained to do such things and where are they going to get a dependable source of supplies to complete such tasks?
 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2016, 03:38:03 am »
Quote
We invite scientific and technical scrutiny. We all get better by examining and improving our ideas. In fact, we founded VICI Labs to accelerate ideas from ‘Vision to Value’.

The technical aspects of the video actually show how WaterSeer can work, not how it can’t. Anyone who sees water condense on a cold glass or runs an air conditioner knows how this works and how water comes out of the air. When you see something working, you don’t deny it because it doesn’t fit your understanding of the theory. Facts are stubborn things.

The attacks on The National Peace Corps Association, UC Berkeley, The Sutardja Center for Entrepreneurship and Technology, and The Jacobs Institute for Design and Innovation are inappropriate, unprofessional, and unfair. I am confident that their reputation for excellence and working for the public good can withstand any examination. They are certainly more credible, as individuals and as institutions, than the producers of the attack video.

VICI Labs, T3 TigerTech and the people who work in them have a public record. In any case, we stand behind our work and our goals to make the world better by daring greatly and doing things differently. That is why WaterSeer is a not-for-profit initiative and all funds raised go to refining the design, expanding field testing, manufacturing, and deployment to support the WaterSeer Community, early adopters, and all our contributors. The ultimate proof of WaterSeer will be in its performance in daily life.

Finally, personal attacks, particularly on the engineering and design students, is reprehensible in the extreme. It is shameful, particularly when done for entertainment purposes, which appears to be the intention.

We invite you to join us, and join the WaterSeer Community. Perhaps the resources, time and effort developing the attack video could have been spent trying to solve the problem or working to improve the concept. Water access is a daunting, worldwide challenge. It is expanding as populations grow, pollutants spread, aquifers run dry, and the climate changes.

Let’s work to solve this problem.

Their response did not go down well!  :-DD

 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2016, 03:49:24 am »
Captured in case they delete it:

 

Offline ez24

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2016, 03:49:59 am »
It's like Fontus on steroids  |O
For $268 you will get a poster  :palm:
https://igg.me/at/waterseer/x/10280792
The poster is $33.  For $268, 3 of these things will be sent somewhere.
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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2016, 03:50:56 am »
At least they aren't deleting Facebook comments (yet).
I don't see one single post supporting them. Guess they don't have that many fanboys.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2016, 04:14:55 am »
From a first reading, I think this is the smartest campaign ever.  By smart, I mean it is making them a lot of easy money.  Better than robbing banks.

I see nothing that guarantees these even work or even if there will be a real product.

Starting at the top:

$268 x 99   for 3 of these to be sent somewhere (not to the buyer) No guarantee they work.

$ 33 x 56  for a poster   OK

$67 x 7 (total bullshit - and 7 fell for it)

$134 x 898   Reserve one (?), download a poster.  Connect with Peace Corps Association, I wonder who they are.  Could be an off shore company.  The Peace Corp that you might think of is called National Peace Corps Association.  So the Peace Corps Association could be the bar Bob is drinking in.  For $134 you might get an email that Bob got it.

$500 x 7  Video and web link of the actual WaterSeer regional deployment that you sponsored!    So for $500 you can get a video of Bob looking at something.

The remaining are just as crazy.

The way I read this they do not send anyone anything.  There does not have to be a real thing.  A plastic toy sent to a bar would satisfied their campaign.

I would like to see the bar named "Peace Corp Association"   So they can open something in any country and call it PCA.

Best scam I have ever seen.  Legally I cannot see they have to do much, just some plastic tubes with a small fan on top.

Boy wish I could have thought of this.   I do not think any lawyer could touch them.  These people are as smart as our politicians.


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Offline fubar.gr

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2016, 06:36:40 am »
My house is on a rather humid region so I got a good quality dehumidifier (Meaco 20L).

On days with high humidity, it will fill its 5 liter container within 10 hours or less. On low humidity days I can leave it running for 24 hours straight and it won't gather more than half a liter.

This is for a high efficiency mains powered device in a rather humid environment.

I can't imagine an unpowered device on a freaking desert gathering even a single droplet of water.

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2016, 09:03:34 am »
From a first reading, I think this is the smartest campaign ever.  By smart, I mean it is making them a lot of easy money.  Better than robbing banks.
I see nothing that guarantees these even work or even if there will be a real product.

Correct, they want the money for further research and prepping for production (which is of course stupid considering they haven't actually finished the research and prototypes).
Crowd funders like these can be the new perpetual research grant if you have a fancy enough idea and video.
 

Offline Khendrask

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2016, 11:04:10 am »
This alone puts all UC Berkley grads on a no-hire list.

At least for any real company.
 

Offline Kalidor

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2016, 11:48:43 am »
It's like Fontus on steroids  |O
For $268 you will get a poster  :palm:
https://igg.me/at/waterseer/x/10280792
The poster is $33.  For $268, 3 of these things will be sent somewhere.

I didn't read that exactly, for every perk it says "Download the high resolution full color WaterSeer poster!"
and from $500 up "Become a two year partner in the WaterSeer Community". I can guess what this means.  :-DD

So not one perk where they have to do anything for it. Like Airing no obligations at all.
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2016, 12:18:02 pm »
This alone puts all UC Berkley grads on a no-hire list.

At least for any real company.

They won't need jobs as they are being equipped with all the skills they need to raise money for BS products and lets face it the world is full of fools willing to part with their money.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2016, 05:00:24 pm »
Dammit! I found this a long time ago and was thinking of posting it but didn't because it's not electrical. :palm:

But seriously, they should stop tempting the starving kids in Africa with "free water from air" :bullshit:.
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Online edavid

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2016, 05:14:34 pm »
So not one perk where they have to do anything for it. Like Airing no obligations at all.

This is not what they are saying, it's just that the perk descriptions are as poorly thought out as the rest of the project.  If you read the IGG FAQ:

Quote
Q - If I give $134, or more, will I receive a WaterSeer device, once they are fully designed and manufactured?
A - Yes. Your contribution of $134 or more is a registered pre-order. You order will be filled following the first manufacturing run.
 

Offline Kean

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2016, 06:41:36 am »
Quote
Q - Does the cost of a WaterSeer include shipping?
A – The ‘Early Adopter’ discounted price will expire on 23 Nov 2016. It does not include shipping.

If they ever do actually ship something, shipping on something of that size is likely to be substantial.
If it was actually worthwhile, there are a few ways to minimise the shipping at the cost of some extra assembly steps.
 

Offline daqq

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2016, 08:27:16 am »
Can't we just ignore those pesky thermodynamics? They always foil such awesome ideas.
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Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2016, 08:36:17 am »
Can't we just ignore those pesky thermodynamics? They always foil such awesome ideas.

Indeed, it seems that science and facts just get in the way of a good money raiser...  The rebuke from the university was just emotionally charged drivel (he's picking on me boo hoo) rather than any kind of fact laden push back, what a surprise! "just a leave our poor students alone so they can focus on saving the world..."

There seems to be an increasing amount of this low quality/low facts BS coming out of universities these days, they are so commercially focussed that they'll support any old enterprise/startup shite with no diligence applied at all.


 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2016, 08:37:37 am »
Thermodynamics aside since Thunderf00t did an excellent job, how are they going to clean the reservoir?

Zero thought has been put into this it seems., just like the rest of the project.
 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2016, 08:49:45 am »
Thermodynamics aside since Thunderf00t did an excellent job, how are they going to clean the reservoir?

Zero thought has been put into this it seems., just like the rest of the project.

Q - How will the device be cleaned? How will you keep debris and insects out of the water?
A - In the current design concept, we use a filter to keep debris and insects from falling into the device. The WaterSeer condensation chamber below ground is inserted in a sleeve so it is easily removable for inspection and cleaning. Field tests showed the water collected to be virtually free of particulates over a one week period, and cleaner than rain water in terms of pollutants and pathogens.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 
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Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2016, 09:48:41 am »
These guys...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 10:23:24 am by RGB255_0_0 »
Your toaster just set fire to an African child over TCP.
 

Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2016, 10:10:53 am »
They are obviously going for the aggression is the best form of defence approach...

 

Offline jonovid

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2016, 10:32:18 am »
questions of science , Pigs can now fly higher because of more snake oil  .
remember the fairy tale of Hansel Gretel & the candy house, the children begin to eat the rooftop of the house made from confectionery.
now we have the New Age fairy tales of a world made of electronics. the streets the houses the trees .
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Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2016, 10:34:42 am »
Looks like UC Berkeley are covered....



Yea, academic exercises in ripping off the gullible in society...
« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 10:37:26 am by StuUK »
 

Offline madires

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2016, 12:05:18 pm »
The sad thing is, that the engineering students didn't came to the conclusion that WaterSeer won't work and didn't move to another "industrial experience" while reporting back to the Sutardja Center. Too young? And It's worrying, that the Sutardja Center and others involved obviously don't care about the students, when they are sent to such a dubious industry partner.
 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2016, 12:25:56 pm »
Perhaps someone can convince this David "Avacado" Wolf to share Thunderf00t's video?
(Facebook views are grossly inflated BTW)

 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2016, 12:30:00 pm »
 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2016, 12:33:16 pm »
One of the students responds:
 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2016, 12:36:01 pm »
Wow, people are flooding their Facebook feed with Thunderf00t's video.
Either they are too stupid to know how to delete posts, or they like having their balls hanging on the chopping block.
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2016, 12:50:33 pm »
Wow, people are flooding their Facebook feed with Thunderf00t's video.
Either they are too stupid to know how to delete posts, or they like having their balls hanging on the chopping block.
Well, as long as money keeps flowing in, I'm not sure they even care.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/waterseer-water-women#/backers
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Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2016, 12:54:54 pm »
One of the students responds:


Variety of criteria... except viability
Little time on calculations but more experimentally verbose.... really?
Poor Project Management... That old excuse  :palm:
 
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Offline Refrigerator

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2016, 06:33:06 pm »
they like having their balls hanging on the chopping block.
that's a new one. ;D
Just started a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Not much in it as of now but more is sure to come :)
 

Offline Delta

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2016, 01:34:11 am »
Superb stuff, classic TF at his best.  I really enjoy watching scammers / believers / idiots getting torn apart with nothing more than cold, boring numbers. :)

Has anyone done some fag packet calcs to estimate the mechanical power (and thus wind speed / turbine size) required to get the 30L/sec airflow the 4m round trip through that thing?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 01:49:24 am by Delta »
 

Offline rfeecs

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2016, 02:36:36 am »
This alone puts all UC Berkley grads on a no-hire list.

At least for any real company.
Here's a convenient list:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_University_of_California,_Berkeley_alumni
 

Offline ez24

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2016, 03:17:07 am »
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Offline djacobow

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #38 on: October 27, 2016, 04:11:30 am »
I hope they didn't apply for patents. I'm pretty sure I saw some prior art, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

Out of random chance, I know one of the people pictured in their videos. He ran a center for entrepreneurship associated with the engineering school at UCB. I was a GSR for him about 10 years ago. He was an MBA type, but not a scam artist.
 
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #39 on: October 27, 2016, 04:18:37 am »
Wow, people are flooding their Facebook feed with Thunderf00t's video.
Either they are too stupid to know how to delete posts, or they like having their balls hanging on the chopping block.

Keyword "flooding". There is nothing they can do at this piont. Their balls have already been chopped off, fried, and served to us real science guys as c***y mountain oysters so we can shit real science all over their :bullshit:. If they delete one comment, even more pissed people will come and puch their comment box till it's bruised.
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Offline jonovid

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2016, 05:50:07 am »
Quote is From indiegogo
Quote
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/waterseer-water-women#/backers

Every 90 seconds a child dies due to lack of clean water. Over 2.2 billion people don't have access to safe water. WaterSeer™
will help alleviate this chronic and tragic burden by providing access to clean drinking water right where they live,
 by extracting water from the air. For every WaterSeer™ purchased, one will be sent to a family in a developing country,
 freeing time to build thriving communities, start businesses and improve lives, especially for women and girls.
Quote is From indiegogo
Quote
especially for women and girls.
is code for feminism!
WaterSeer is sold as humanitarian aid or feelgood aid.

billions people don't have access to safe water. because of ongoing Wars in Africa, backed by the UN it is in New York after all / US government.?
but why? Because the growing Africa Population is an eugenics nightmare for the globalist think tanks. so proxy wars are used to keep a lid on the same Populations. but as humanitarian aid is big business. so help is encouraged, But not to permanently fix the problem, as this will add to Africa's Population.

to permanently fix the water problem, Africans groundwater needs to be pumped. by modern water utility infrastructures.
but this can not happen in war zones. and the eugenic globalists Know it.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-17775211
  and
http://www.aquaknow.net/fr/stellenbosch-university-water-institute/news/bbc-reports-africa-sitting-vast-reservoir-groundwater
Scientists say the notoriously dry continent of Africa is sitting on a vast reservoir of groundwater.
so why is so little getting pumped?
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 10:11:00 am by jonovid »
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Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2016, 07:20:31 am »
Wow, people are flooding their Facebook feed with Thunderf00t's video.
Either they are too stupid to know how to delete posts, or they like having their balls hanging on the chopping block.

Looks like they are getting ready to start deleting stuff..
from their FB page.....

Waterseer Facebook Page Guidelines
WATERSEER·THURSDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2016
We welcome you and your comments to the Facebook page for Waterseer. This site intends to inform and engage with the fans, friends, family members, and other businesses, entities, or interested persons of Waterseer.
You are encouraged to submit comments, questions, and concerns, but please note this is a moderated online discussion site and not a public forum. Posted comments and images do not necessarily represent the views of Waterseer. External, non-Waterseer links on this site do not constitute official endorsement on behalf of Waterseer. While we encourage fans to share thoughts and opinions on the Waterseer Facebook page, we expect that this will be done in a respectful manner.
Once posted, Waterseer reserves the right to delete submissions that contain vulgar language, personal attacks of any kind, or comments we deem to be offensive or disparaging.   
Further, Waterseer also reserves the right to delete comments that contains: 
Hate speech
Profanity, obscenity or vulgarity, this includes masked words (***), acronyms, and abbreviations
Nudity in profile pictures
Defamation to a person or people
Name calling and/or personal attacks,
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Comments that infringe on copyrights or trademarks
Spam comments, such as the same comment posted repeatedly on a profile, and
Other comments that the Waterseer Social Media team deems inappropriate.
For media inquiries, please contact:
Disclaimer
All links posted as comments on Waterseer posts will be reviewed and may be deleted. Repeated violations of the Waterseer comment policy may cause the author to be blocked from the Waterseer Facebook page. We understand that social media is a 24/7 medium; however, our moderation capabilities are not. We may not see every inappropriate comment right away, and we are trusting in the maturity of our community to ignore personal attacks and negative speech or respond politely.
Please contact waterseer@vici-labs.com if you have any questions or media inquiries.
 

Offline madires

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2016, 11:12:11 am »
... as they take the money from backers for a non-feasable device in a respectful manner. :-DD
 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2016, 11:21:47 am »
Waffle time:

 

Offline StuUK

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2016, 11:32:28 am »
Didn't say which December they are going to fulfil those orders.. the whole thing is a load of bollocks and directly contradicts some earlier statements on 'doing the maths'
 

Offline madires

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2016, 11:53:00 am »
Yep, let's waffle:
- When the WaterSeer in the video isn't the final design, why do they give specs, like on water per day?
- As they said, same physics and math. Some IP, which needs to be hidden from the public, won't change the fact, that the WaterSeer isn't feasable.
- How can they deliver WaterSeers in December, when they are several steps away from production? Or did they mean December 2017 or some other year?
- How can taking money for a non-feasable device not being scamming of donors?
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2016, 11:53:39 am »
Quote
Yep, let's waffle:
- When the WaterSeer in the video isn't the final design, why do they give specs, like on water per day?
more like Water Drops Per Day. so Bee's may find it appealing.
Quote
Didn't say which December they are going to fulfil those orders.. the whole thing is a load of bollocks and directly contradicts some earlier statements on 'doing the maths'
  if political correctness is a key selling point, then the product color maybe deemed racist. along with 75% of all household appliances.  :-DD
« Last Edit: October 27, 2016, 12:00:45 pm by jonovid »
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2016, 02:17:16 pm »
billions people don't have access to safe water. because of ongoing Wars in Africa, backed by the UN it is in New York after all / US government.?
but why? Because the growing Africa Population is an eugenics nightmare for the globalist think tanks. so proxy wars are used to keep a lid on the same Populations. but as humanitarian aid is big business. so help is encouraged, But not to permanently fix the problem, as this will add to Africa's Population.
  :palm:
Oh, i wasn't aware that lead contamination of air and drinking water is a problem in Australia too.
Probably best for Australians to don ABC masks and only drink the clean water made by WaterSeer. That should keep the risks of brain damage in check, but could lead to dehydration...
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #48 on: October 27, 2016, 05:20:14 pm »
Whoever said this was a femanist project...you are 100% correct! Just look at the URL:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/waterseer-water-women#/
WATER WOMEN! :-DD

Second, they are not delivering this December for certain. They are of course totally lying...except they left this little mistake. Attack them with it! Complain they are lying! >:D

Quote
Is it possible to see a WaterSeer up close? No field testing is currently underway. When the next phase of field testing begins next year, we will open testing areas to the WaterSeer community.
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
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Offline elgonzo

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #49 on: October 27, 2016, 05:45:10 pm »
Whoever said this was a femanist project...you are 100% correct! Just look at the URL:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/waterseer-water-women#/
WATER WOMEN! :-DD
That's not entirely stupid. I would not be surprised they learned from Ghostbusters (2016) and sometime in the future start trying to discredit critics as "spiteful misogynists"...
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #50 on: October 27, 2016, 08:42:57 pm »
I read one of those comments as saying "Grail shaped bacon" and started salivating. It actually said "Grail shaped beacon". Awww...  :(
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #51 on: October 27, 2016, 10:25:50 pm »
http://www.baconsizzling.com

They said they wouldn't delete comments. They deleted all links to Thunderf00t's video and started blocking people. They also only reply privately.
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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #52 on: October 28, 2016, 12:33:53 am »
They said they wouldn't delete comments. They deleted all links to Thunderf00t's video and started blocking people. They also only reply privately.

Yep, classic behaviour when they know they have been busted and their product doesn't work as claimed.
 
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Offline josecamoessilva

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #53 on: October 28, 2016, 02:43:22 am »
(Feynman Almighty but I'm about to defend U.C. Leningra… Berkeley. What's wrong with me??)

To be fair to the two U.C. Berserkley centers involved, both design and entrepreneurship student projects tend to let the engineering and science part be the responsibility of their technical partners (that would be the Vici Labs here). In this case, hilariously, these partners seem to have no understanding of basic physics; but the freshmen and sophomores in the video aren't to blame for that.

(Even more hilarious is the student with the "I'm a Berkeley Engineer" t-shirt; this is probably a fresher, he'll soon learn.)

Cheers,
JCS

 

Offline Kalidor

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #54 on: October 28, 2016, 01:24:48 pm »
New video from Thunderf00t:

https://youtu.be/pen6dBszLgA
In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.
 

Offline Refrigerator

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #55 on: October 28, 2016, 02:36:03 pm »
that was a good video, i want more  ;D
These people make these failed projects and after they themselves fail at delivering their promises, despite them receiving their funding, they blame the people who called them out on their bullshit.  :palm:
The lack of self awareness that these specimen show is amazing.
Just started a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Not much in it as of now but more is sure to come :)
 

Offline madires

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #56 on: October 28, 2016, 03:13:03 pm »
Maybe the Dunning–Kruger effect? Possibly it wasn't intented as a scam and they really want to make the world a better place. They've seen condensated water and got the idea of WaterSeer. The only problem is the total lack of knowledge to check if the idea is feasable. It's like a company with a marketing department only, no R&D and no working product. That's outsourced to UC Berkeley to give some young students an industrial experience. R&D on the cheap. Now they're hit by the harsh reality of scientific facts and try to defend their vision. Let's see how long they need to realize their major faux pas.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #57 on: October 28, 2016, 11:44:34 pm »
If WaterSeer's claim of "the ground temperature is always cooler than the air" was correct, then the device known as a heat pump would not work.

Except there is a multi-billion dollar and very successful industry surrounding the very sound engineering and science of heat pumps, that exist for the very reason that the ground fluctuates in temperature much less than the air - and as such - despite what the air temperature is doing, the ground stays much more consistent.

That right there renders WS's most fundamental claim as bullshit and hence renders the product as a total sham.

Since they know it can't work and are still pushing it, that makes them outright scammers.  And yet IGG still doesn't take action.  And whatever state they are based in has an attorney general that is too weak and meek and too disinterested in actually protecting consumers to investigate this scam of a company.
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Offline max_torque

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #58 on: October 29, 2016, 07:23:05 pm »
The sad thing for me is that these sorts of projects, run by major seats of learning, are leading to, potentially, a generation of young engineers for whom "marketing" and "media" now take primary position, way out in front of actual engineering foundations.
  When i did my engineering degree, we had no multi-media bulls**t to distract us, you just got a load of old, dry, dusty and un-appealing reference text books, and reams and reams of black-board based tuition, but because of that dull but necessary work, you got the "real" engineering right.  Today, it's much more "fun" for students to get involved in these high profile, high media content projects, and as a result, they aren't really interested in learning how the basic engineering works.

You can imagine the conversation with their tutor:

  "who wants to be involved in a project to help save poor peoples lives"?
  "I need some students to come up with some ideas, film some soundbites, make us look good" 
  "Make some models, do some virtual design, make some stuff that looks futuristic"

And they did ALL that, but forgot to actually check if the device in question was practicable and viable, you know, the boring, dull bit of being an engineer.  The hundreds of hours doing "The Math" and working out if the laws of physics support your concept.....  But the students are reliant on their tutors etc for direction and support, so it's not their fault.

In my experience, the best engineers i've ever worked with are the natural ones, the ones who spent their child hood taking stuff apart to see who it worked, who were always questioning other people assumptions and statements, who were always reading, learning, gathering input and forming their own opinions, rather than just being "yes" people. They didn't need to dress it up with pretty pictures, video presentations and the like. Today, we try to make engineering degrees more appealing to more students, but in doing so, i suggest we are also losing the ability to actually do engineering as a result........
 

Offline josecamoessilva

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #59 on: October 29, 2016, 07:46:29 pm »
The sad thing for me is that these sorts of projects, run by major seats of learning, are leading to, potentially, a generation of young engineers for whom "marketing" and "media" now take primary position, way out in front of actual engineering foundations.

Much as I dislike having to defend the University of Berks, these two centers are specifically for entrepreneurship and design, meaning that they address those two "disciplines." There are many wrong things at Berserkeley, but that they specialize their centers isn't one of them. I too find that the engineering of the products should have been analyzed by engineers before making the projects available to the students, but that's a separate issue.

There's a lot of dumb stuff going on at universities in the US in general and at UC Leningrad in particular, but affording some students exposure to design and entrepreneurship isn't dumb. It's dumb to not have the engineering faculty vet the projects, but I'm sure from now on they will.  ;D ;D

In my assessment, having a lot of exposure to these students, the engineering ones tend to be the least ignorant and arrogant of all Berks. That's generally true of engineering students, methinks, as they have to deal with the unforgiving reality of machinery. (The reason why I like engineering.)

Cheers,
JCS
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #60 on: October 29, 2016, 07:55:20 pm »
Quote
In my experience, the best engineers i've ever worked with are the natural ones, the ones who spent their child hood taking stuff apart to see who it worked, who were always questioning other people assumptions and statements, who were always reading, learning, gathering input and forming their own opinions, rather than just being "yes" people. They didn't need to dress it up with pretty pictures, video presentations and the like. Today, we try to make engineering degrees more appealing to more students, but in doing so, i suggest we are also losing the ability to actually do engineering as a result........
So true  I am one who spent my child hood taking stuff apart to see how it worked, was always questioning other people assumptions and statements  :-+

Quote
Quote
billions people don't have access to safe water. because of ongoing Wars in Africa, backed by the UN it is in New York after all / US government.?
but why? Because the growing Africa Population is an eugenics nightmare for the globalist think tanks. so proxy wars are used to keep a lid on the same Populations. but as humanitarian aid is big business. so help is encouraged, But not to permanently fix the problem, as this will add to Africa's Population.
  :palm:
Oh, i wasn't aware that lead contamination of air and drinking water is a problem in Australia too.
Probably best for Australians to don ABC masks and only drink the clean water made by WaterSeer. That should keep the risks of brain damage in check, but could lead to dehydration...
  So WaterSeer is Not science, But a religious cult,  :-DD  your guru eye sees water.  :-DD out on the Highway in middle of the day, no doubt.

A religion now i see .  and So the design may just work as a powerful money magnet. the gathering of new age minded and the mystical separation of their money.  :-DD
Ammmmmmmmm i feel this is every artist's dream of making a full time income from their work.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 01:31:45 am by jonovid »
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Offline Corporate666

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #61 on: October 31, 2016, 08:44:41 am »
There's a lot of dumb stuff going on at universities in the US in general and at UC Leningrad in particular, but affording some students exposure to design and entrepreneurship isn't dumb. It's dumb to not have the engineering faculty vet the projects, but I'm sure from now on they will.  ;D ;D

I really hate the word "entrepreneur".  It screams "wannabe business owner" as opposed to "actual business owner who earns a living from their business".  A bit part of the problem with all this entrepreneurship bullshit is not teaching practical applications of things.  So you get a generation of douchebags who think that they need to be visionaries and that means a lot of buzzwords and swanky offices and hipster dress codes and raising money being the metric of success.  Meanwhile the thing that actually matters - delivering genuine value in the form of a product or service that people will pay more for than it costs to produce - is glossed over. 

And a huge, fundamental, inescapably important part of practical business would be having a product or service that actually works.  I would say if the college is supposedly exposing these kids to entrepreneurship and part of that isn't reviewing if the product can actually work, then they should be humbly offering refunds to each of those students for wasting those kids' time.   There's no excuse.  They shouldn't be developing a single logo, typing a single press release, having a single 'ideation' meeting, or doing anything really, unless they have done their due diligence.  They should practice what they preach.  No actual entrepreneur would invest time or money in an idea without doing due diligence, and if they didn't have the skill to do so, they would reach out to get the help of those that did.  At UCB, that help can't be more than a 5 minute walk or a phone call away, at most. 

They ought to be ashamed.  And shamed.  Publicly!
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 
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Offline CJay

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #62 on: October 31, 2016, 11:47:01 am »

I really hate the word "entrepreneur".  It screams "wannabe business owner" as opposed to "actual business owner who earns a living from their business".

I kind of agree and then again don't.

Entrepreneur has become sullied like the word 'hacker', its original meaning was quite respectable but now it screams 'wideboy' (which if you've never heard the term means a chancer, slightly dodgy who will try and profit at any cost to anyone). Plenty of 'entrepreneurs have become successful and established business owners.

M0UAW
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #63 on: October 31, 2016, 12:14:04 pm »
They had a mass ban spree on their Facebook over the weekend.
Your toaster just set fire to an African child over TCP.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #64 on: October 31, 2016, 01:11:09 pm »
I really hate the word "entrepreneur".

I couldn't agree more. The word was once respectable but is no more. Before the Thatcherites and Reaganites got their hands on it the commonest usage of entrepeneur was as someone who prompted some entertainment (a play, a show) at the risk of their own money with the understanding that this implied a more than normal risk. So, perhaps it has not changed its meaning so much. It seems to now denote people who promote a public spectacle, that is entertaining to some onlookers, at high financial risk, with other people's money.

...shouldn't be ... having a single 'ideation' meeting, or doing anything really, ...

Again, changing words. I first encountered this as a psychiatric term as in paranoid ideation or delusional ideation. Seems somehow unintentionally apposite.

...unless they have done their due diligence.

Again, another phrase that has lost its proper meaning. For once, it's a bit of business jargon that is reasonable and properly means, and I'm quoting the dictionary here, "reasonable steps taken by a person in order to satisfy a legal requirement". So I have to take you slightly to task for using it here where a more appropriate phrase would have been:
        "...doing <list of anything else> until they had done their basic research".
The effect is, I would argue, even more damning.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #65 on: October 31, 2016, 09:12:54 pm »
I kind of agree and then again don't.

Entrepreneur has become sullied like the word 'hacker', its original meaning was quite respectable but now it screams 'wideboy' (which if you've never heard the term means a chancer, slightly dodgy who will try and profit at any cost to anyone). Plenty of 'entrepreneurs have become successful and established business owners.

I pretty much agree.  I don't think you can really learn to be an entrepreneur anymore than you can learn to be an inventor.  You either have a skillset to do it or you don't.  And there's nothing wrong with not being able to do it... I'd make a really shitty music composer or poet or sculptor. 

But there has been this fascination with people being business owners.  That usually entailed a lot of hard work, a little bit of luck and a hell of a lot more frustration and hassle than 99.9999% of people ever realized.  I think colleges are largely to blame for the new wave of wannabe-entrepreneurs.  Just like they don't tell drama students that they have a 0.00001% chance of ever actually making it in theater or in hollywood, they don't bother with the practical side of entrepreneurship.  So they spend time on bullshit projects like this Waterseer shit, when an actually valuable lesson would be to show the students why this is the sort of project you DON'T get involved with and use it as a case study of doing due diligence.

Because what they have done is exactly like you have described (never heard the term before, BTW, but it fits well) - groom a generation of wideboys who are vomiting buzzwords and thinking themselves "entrepreneurs", but when called on it are just absolving themselves of any blame by saying they weren't tasked with vetting the technical details.   But if you are supposedly learning entrepreneurship and involved with a scam of a project, then you can't just claim ignorance and say it was outside your scope to vet the project.  That's a fundamental part of entrepreneurship!
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #66 on: October 31, 2016, 10:06:08 pm »
Maybe the Dunning–Kruger effect? Possibly it wasn't intented as a scam and they really want to make the world a better place.


That's how most of these things start, and this one is no different.
They actually believed it worked, and likely still believe it can work, all they have to do is test it and refine it and ignore the "haters". You have to have either extreme cognitive dissonance/delusion to continue with a project like this when every one says you are wrong, or you really really really need to know your stuff and know something unique others don't. These people don't know Jack.
In the case of uBeam, she really does believe it will work, and the PhD's she threw money at to come work with her gave her a false of the later.
In the case of Batteriser, they really do believe they know something we don't because they have lots of letters after their name.
 

Offline josecamoessilva

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2016, 02:46:17 am »
Maybe the Dunning–Kruger effect? Possibly it wasn't intented as a scam and they really want to make the world a better place.

That's how most of these things start, and this one is no different.
They actually believed it worked, and likely still believe it can work, all they have to do is test it and refine it and ignore the "haters".

I dunno… if this was the first such venture for this individual, maybe. But given the address in a "mailbox office building," the multiple companies that appear in sequence once the previous one fails, the PR offensive taking advantage of U of Berks and the Peace Corps Association (not the Peace Corps), the deleting of comments…

At some point the balance of probabilities moves from "well-meaning ignoramuses" to "confidence artists" in some definitive way.

Cheers,
JCS

(Please people, don't make me defend U.C. Leningrad or its students and faculty.)
 
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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2016, 02:13:30 pm »
I would imagine if WaterSeer had a meeting with some people at Berkley concerning this project the discussion would be similar to this video:
 
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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2016, 03:23:20 pm »
I would imagine if WaterSeer had a meeting with some people at Berkley concerning this project the discussion would be similar to this video:


Argh! That video makes me want to find a tree, a stool, a stout rope and a bunch of management types to invite to a "Focus group on practical downsizing".

I've been in meetings like that, more than I care to remember.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Offline Geonerd

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2016, 06:06:18 pm »
In case anyone missed Dave's tweet, a fellow named Scott Larsen has made a great video featuring a fairly detailed thermal analysis of Waterseer.
This is a bit deeper than TF's effort and, with none of the 'bonus' snark, it's much more pleasant to watch.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 06:30:15 pm by Geonerd »
 
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Offline Dubbie

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WaterSeer
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2016, 06:26:17 pm »
I suspect that the claim of the thing generating 37L of water happened during the contest between all the different designs. One or more members of the team who hadn't done the sums so as to realise it was physically impossible, decided to "top up" their device overnight to ensure a victory for their device.  It's quite possible that most of the team and the organisers/faculty were quite innocent of this skulduggery, and are convinced that the thing worked way better than predicted. I feel that this is almost certainly what happened. The motivation is there ($12k prize too!) and it explains neatly the physics bending result.


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Offline rfeecs

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2016, 09:23:43 pm »
I suspect that the claim of the thing generating 37L of water happened during the contest between all the different designs. One or more members of the team who hadn't done the sums so as to realise it was physically impossible, decided to "top up" their device overnight to ensure a victory for their device.  It's quite possible that most of the team and the organisers/faculty were quite innocent of this skulduggery, and are convinced that the thing worked way better than predicted. I feel that this is almost certainly what happened. The motivation is there ($12k prize too!) and it explains neatly the physics bending result.

I think UC Berkeley and the students have to be defended a little bit.

It appears VICI Labs proposed this challenge and funded the prize.  VICI labs is run by a pair of Management consultants:
http://www.vici-labs.com/leadership.html

Here are the guidelines for the competition:
http://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/VICI-Labs-Collider-Project-Submission.pdf
The object was to produce the most water per day,  at least "3.7 liters per day from 9 Sq. Meter surface in the San Francisco climate" which is a lot more modest than the crazy claims they ended up with.

You can read the other requirements, some are a little odd:
Quote
The design must be highly
functional, appealing to very high-end clients and simple to implement in developing countries
where clean water is scarce.
Seems tailor made for Indiegogo.

This is the report that VICI labs has on their waterseer.org page:
http://waterseer.org/assets/waterseer_field_test_results_v2_7.pdf
It looks like they took the results that the students got and then scaled up, extrapolated and speculated to get their incredibly high yield numbers.  I'm assuming this is VICI lab's marketing touch, rather than UCB.

As Thunderf00t pointed out, once Berkeley saw the reaction, they plastered a disclaimer on their own website:
Quote
Disclaimer: Sutardja Center Collider Projects are academic exercises executed with the goal of helping students gain experience with real world industry projects. The Sutardja Center, Berkeley Engineering, and UC Regents do not necessarily claim to support the efficacy or claims made by any industry partners or their products which were worked on for this program.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:46:11 pm by rfeecs »
 
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Offline Geonerd

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2016, 04:15:36 am »

It appears VICI Labs proposed this challenge and funded the prize.  VICI labs is run by a pair of Management consultants:
http://www.vici-labs.com/leadership.html

I think you have identified the "Root Cause" of our little problem!  :)

Gotta love some of the Buzzword Bullshit these people spew.
Particularly entertaining, perhaps even erily prescient, are these two lines...
Don: "Hard problems provoke unique innovations."
Nancy: "She knows how to empower individual and team talents in ways never thought possible and affect paradigm shifts."
 :-DD
 

Offline madires

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #74 on: November 02, 2016, 11:28:37 am »
Here are the guidelines for the competition:
http://scet.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/VICI-Labs-Collider-Project-Submission.pdf
The object was to produce the most water per day,  at least "3.7 liters per day from 9 Sq. Meter surface in the San Francisco climate" which is a lot more modest than the crazy claims they ended up with.

Thanks for the info! So they've fooled the UC Berkeley students while abusing them as an "academic shield" for their unfeasible claims. It's disgusting!
 

Offline Geonerd

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #75 on: November 02, 2016, 08:14:26 pm »
Another Scott Larsen video, with minor revisions to his thermal model.

 

Online EEVblog

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2019, 02:18:55 am »
Surprise, it's a $200 commercial dehumidifier in a fancy case for 10 times the cost.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2019, 03:44:51 am »
Looks like Thunderfoot didn't just Thanos snap their asses, he detonated the Dalek Reality Bomb in their backyard... :-DD
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2019, 10:36:07 am »
I guess Snake Oil salesmen have been around for ever, the difference nowadays is that you can create a slick website that looks the same as any corporate website, and there are willing enablers like Indiegogo and Kickstarter to collect the money for you.

While the internet should in theory allow for scientific knowledge to be spread more widely, in practice it is the scammers with a financial motive that use it more effectively.



Bob
"All you said is just a bunch of opinions."
 

Offline Refrigerator

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2019, 11:38:10 am »
Surprise, it's a $200 commercial dehumidifier in a fancy case for 10 times the cost.
Oh you just had to spoil it for us  >:(



 ;D
Just started a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Not much in it as of now but more is sure to come :)
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2019, 07:13:56 pm »
Water seers for when scammers set their sights water and something like this happens.

I am looking forward for when it goes bust and a video is done on it.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #81 on: July 08, 2019, 12:00:52 pm »
Surprise, it's a $200 commercial dehumidifier in a fancy case for 10 times the cost.
Oh you just had to spoil it for us  >:(

Oh, yeah, SPOILER ALERT!
 

Offline edy

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #82 on: September 22, 2019, 02:47:08 am »
Kind of along the lines of this thread, here is a recent news article from CNN about a man who wants to bring his home-made dehumidifier to the Bahamas to help the hurricane Dorian victims, if he can raise enough money:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/16/us/water-rescue-foundation-bahamas-trnd/

It seems to be a valiant effort and I commend him for doing something to help. However, I kind of feel that it is highly inefficient way to do the job. Having a generator running, the energy required to produce the water, etc... in a place surrounded by water and with constant rains and tons of biomass around. Certainly a few air-drops of water should be more than efficient to help the islanders for a fraction of the cost needed to operate such a machine. I can see a biomass-burning unit having utility (generate electricity while at the same time condensing water vapour out of the exhaust). I don't know what type of machine he is bringing, but if it requires a gasoline-powered generator to run 24-7 I'm not sure it is the best way to go about it.
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Offline Bud

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Re: WaterSeer
« Reply #83 on: September 22, 2019, 03:17:14 am »
Why dont he buy a few big containers of water and ship them to the disaster area using the raised money, instead of wasting dollars on the  traveling for himself and his dinky machine. Much more effective help.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 


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