Author Topic: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.  (Read 22489 times)

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Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2015, 06:08:07 pm »
Funding was suspended for this project a few hours ago! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/945803481/wave-a-cell-phone-that-charges-battery-with-wifi-s/description

Does anyone know if it is possible to learn the reasons?
Yes, @Gavin Melville posted the suspension news yesterday (in case you missed it).
In the message he quoted from KS, they said (in part): "As a policy, we do not offer comment on project suspensions beyond what is stated in this message." q.v.
 

Offline PeterFW

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #26 on: April 21, 2015, 08:23:36 pm »
Does anyone know if it is possible to learn the reasons?

How much more reasond do you need besides this:


It was allready linked in this thread.
 

Offline rickey1990

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #27 on: April 21, 2015, 08:33:59 pm »
The project has been stopped, id just like to say to the guy doing this project not to give up on it, im no free energy nut, but i understand the importance of taking something useless and making it into something useful.

So here is some information and some other stuff which might be helpful to you or anyone wanting to per sue something similar, In which you could make a product for a dollar and them sell cheap and in big numbers.

Heres a pdf of a microwave energy collector by Dukes University, may look a little overwhelming but all a Meta material is, is a piece of fibreglass with copper tracings on top. http://dukespace.lib.duke.edu/dspace/handle/10161/8006

I have also attached a picture of the simplified circuit and would also recommend looking up fractal antenna design as this will increase the range of signals the board can collect. (Also just a fort, there's all that microwave background radiation floating around from the big bang) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fractal+antenna&espv=2&biw=1517&bih=692&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=HrI2VfrVJ8PT7QbMw4CgAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&dpr=0.9

Hope this helps,
Rickey
 

Online tom66

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #28 on: April 21, 2015, 08:39:43 pm »
This is simply a case of the laws of physics. "If you open your mind too much your brain may fall out." This product cannot harvest a useful amount of power. No one is denying it may harvest some power.

For example, a typical wifi base station has an output power of ~100mW when transmitting and the power is spread quite well over the transmit bandwidth. A typical phone charger is rated at 5W. Minimum USB charge supported by most phones is 0.45A @ 5V, i.e. ~2W. So even if you could harvest 100% most phones would not charge and the self-discharge rate (my phone lasts ~1.5days between charges if unused) would likely exceed this for any modern phone. It gets worse when you introduce the inverse square law, the power received at just 1m will be measured in milliwatts, essentially useless.
 

Offline Nerull

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2015, 11:42:37 pm »
The project has been stopped, id just like to say to the guy doing this project not to give up on it, im no free energy nut, but i understand the importance of taking something useless and making it into something useful.

So here is some information and some other stuff which might be helpful to you or anyone wanting to per sue something similar, In which you could make a product for a dollar and them sell cheap and in big numbers.

Heres a pdf of a microwave energy collector by Dukes University, may look a little overwhelming but all a Meta material is, is a piece of fibreglass with copper tracings on top. http://dukespace.lib.duke.edu/dspace/handle/10161/8006

I have also attached a picture of the simplified circuit and would also recommend looking up fractal antenna design as this will increase the range of signals the board can collect. (Also just a fort, there's all that microwave background radiation floating around from the big bang) https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fractal+antenna&espv=2&biw=1517&bih=692&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=HrI2VfrVJ8PT7QbMw4CgAg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&dpr=0.9

Hope this helps,
Rickey

If you come up with a super meta material antenna able to harvest 100% of RF-energy passing through it...it still won't harvest enough power to charge a phone unless you literally wrap it around the TX antenna of a over-legal-limit router. Harvesting the RF energy isn't the problem, there just isn't enough of it to be useful.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 11:44:10 pm by Nerull »
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2015, 12:04:51 am »
The project has been stopped, id just like to say to the guy doing this project not to give up on it, im no free energy nut, but i understand the importance of taking something useless and making it into something useful....Hope this helps,  Rickey
You (and Mr. Williams) really don't seem to grasp the orders-of-magnitude difference between what it takes to charge a cell phone battery and what you can reasonably expect to harvest in an average urban environment.  If you spent the rest of your life and never turned on your phone, you MIGHT "harvest" enough energy to keep up with the self-drain rate of the battery.  And do you really want to carry around an antenna the size of a giant pizza box?

Anyone who understands the actual numbers can see in a glance that this is just pure fantasy.  Sorry to burst your bubble.  Do you really think that if this were possible the billions of dollars available for R&D from the big cellphone makers wouldn't already be at work?  If something seems too good to be true, that is usually because it IS.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2015, 12:08:37 am »
Now if only someone would invent a car that would re-fuel by driving by a gas station (or a gasoline truck).    :bullshit:

Actually Toyota have demonstrated that capability for their hybrid cars. They have automatic parking already,
Not clear how that has anything to do with wireless charging (much less "energy harvesting").

Quote
and they install a wireless charger in the parking space for the car's battery. Tesla have auto-pilot and battery swapping tech too. It's entirely possible for cars with a battery using today's technology.
Have you not followed all the other discussions about wireless charging?  It is typically not efficient enough to charge little cell phone batteries. Can you even imagine how much power would be wasted charging a big vehicle battery?  Don't let any of the green/ecology/tree-huggers hear you talking about this!   :scared:
 

Offline helius

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2015, 12:43:52 am »
He's talking about inductive power transfer, which is widely used in different applications. The idea is that the car's automatic parking feature would be slaved to the inductive pad in such a way that it can drive over it exactly, since the inductive transfer is best when the two coils directly face each other.
Inductive power transfer can be made highly efficient by matching the Q of the two inductors and putting them fairly close together. This has nothing to do with RF energy.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2015, 12:53:06 am »
Inductive power transfer can be made highly efficient by matching the Q of the two inductors and putting them fairly close together. This has nothing to do with RF energy.
I never mentioned "RF energy".  Perhaps you are responding to someone else.  When they are mandating near-zero quiescent current drain for cell chargers, do you really think that "highly efficient" resonant charging is even within 2 or 3 orders of magnitude?  Got any actual numbers in mind?
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2015, 02:12:23 am »
Maybe another business opportunity.  Kickstarter evaluator.  Scores from 1 to -1.  -1 is clearly violates laws of physics.  Scores less than zero for things like this that don't directly violate physics, but the numbers don't come close to working.  Small positive scores for things which might work, but aren't a slam dunk. 

Charge actual time spent evaluating.  These stupid ideas can be evaluated in only a couple of minutes, so even a high hourly rate would only cost a few bucks.  Could even try to cut a deal with Kickstarter which allowed sending a query to you with a mouseclick (percentage of your take or something like that).

Might save a few idiots from losing their money, and reduce the number of idiots and scammers clogging up Kickstarter and other similar venues.
 

Offline helius

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2015, 06:36:41 pm »
I never mentioned "RF energy".  Perhaps you are responding to someone else.  When they are mandating near-zero quiescent current drain for cell chargers, do you really think that "highly efficient" resonant charging is even within 2 or 3 orders of magnitude?  Got any actual numbers in mind?
Yes, the efficiency is about the same as a galvanic connection when you control eddy currents in nearby objects.

http://www.hybridcars.com/momentum-dynamics-wireless-charging-could-relegate-plugs-to-history/
 

Offline gildasd

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2015, 12:56:32 pm »
In the free rag:

Nikolalabs instead of Wave, but the same bullcrap...
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline rickey1990

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2015, 08:16:46 pm »
Quote
You (and Mr. Williams) really don't seem to grasp the orders-of-magnitude difference between what it takes to charge a cell phone battery and what you can reasonably expect to harvest in an average urban environment

Mmm.... Well call me crazy, am I crazy :/ but i wasn't on about RF, But on that subject:


I designed this device to capture radio waves, It gives me a constant 48V's @ 200ma Day and night 7 days a week (1 antenna) . 4 Antenna's can be attached to the device. increasing output.  So its producing just under 10watts.

Here is a example,
"The iPhone 6 takes one hour 50 minutes using a 12 watt usb power adapter and the iPhone 6 Plus took 2 hours and 30 minutes. The iPhone 5, by comparison, took a similar amount of time to the iPhone 6"

The question id like to leave to you, is can radio waves charge a cell phone?.

But i will argue that radio-waves are not free sources of energy, so i am more for electrostatics.

Check me out @
http://empjammer.blogspot.co.uk/
http://beambuilder.blogspot.co.uk/
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2015, 08:28:17 pm »
Quote
You (and Mr. Williams) really don't seem to grasp the orders-of-magnitude difference between what it takes to charge a cell phone battery and what you can reasonably expect to harvest in an average urban environment

Mmm.... Well call me crazy, am I crazy :/ but i wasn't on about RF, But on that subject:


I designed this device to capture radio waves, It gives me a constant 48V's @ 200ma Day and night 7 days a week (1 antenna) . 4 Antenna's can be attached to the device. increasing output.  So its producing just under 10watts.


What do you do to make it do that? Put it in the microwave?

Quote
Here is a example,
"The iPhone 6 takes one hour 50 minutes using a 12 watt usb power adapter and the iPhone 6 Plus took 2 hours and 30 minutes. The iPhone 5, by comparison, took a similar amount of time to the iPhone 6"

The question id like to leave to you, is can radio waves charge a cell phone?.

Yes, if you have a microwave handy.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2015, 08:31:11 pm »
Sorry, @rickey1990, but I don't believe a word of it.   Show us the demonstration.

Even the USPTO requires a working model before they will issue a patent for a perpetual motion machine.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2015, 10:11:55 pm »
He probably is living 200m from a high power FM transmitter, in the near field that is probably strong enough to light a fluorescent lamp without the mains connected.
 

Offline gildasd

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #41 on: May 08, 2015, 10:37:23 pm »
He probably is living 200m from a high power FM transmitter, in the near field that is probably strong enough to light a fluorescent lamp without the mains connected.
Or his residential heating is microwave based.
He should be careful about putting metal spoons in his coffee during winter.
I'm electronically illiterate
 

Offline suicidaleggroll

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #42 on: May 08, 2015, 10:56:24 pm »
I designed this device to capture radio waves, It gives me a constant 48V's @ 200ma Day and night 7 days a week

No, it doesn't.  And if it does, you need to pack up and move to another home immediately because your innards are being cooked.

Either that, or your antenna is the size of an office building.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 11:01:30 pm by suicidaleggroll »
 

Offline djQUAN

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2015, 05:31:39 pm »
Stumbled across this on FB. Not sure if it is the same thing.  :popcorn:

http://www.sciencealert.com/iphone-case-chargers-the-phone-from-the-air
 

Online wraper

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2015, 06:14:29 pm »
I designed this device to capture radio waves, It gives me a constant 48V's @ 200ma Day and night 7 days a week

No, it doesn't.  And if it does, you need to pack up and move to another home immediately because your innards are being cooked.

Either that, or your antenna is the size of an office building.
Maybe he lives in the front of powerful military radar  :-DD
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2015, 09:55:03 pm »
I propose that just as there is a "Godwin's Law" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law), there should be a "Tesla's Law" for discussions about "free energy" and "wireless power" and other such frivolities. 
 

Offline rthorntn

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2015, 11:12:05 pm »
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn27633-gadgets-powered-wirelessly-at-home-with-a-simple-wifi-router.html

tl;dr

"With Wi-Fi for communications, you only want to transmit when you have data to send," Talla says. "But for power delivery, you want to transmit something all the time. There's a clear mismatch."

To get around this, the team designed software that broadcasts meaningless data across several Wi-Fi channels when no one is using the internet.

Small devices could use this as part of an internet of things, says Ben Potter at the University of Reading, UK.
 

Offline retrolefty

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2015, 11:39:44 pm »
I propose that just as there is a "Godwin's Law" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law), there should be a "Tesla's Law" for discussions about "free energy" and "wireless power" and other such frivolities.

 Add super caps to that new law and that would be worth having.

 

Online tom66

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #48 on: June 02, 2015, 11:39:45 am »
I propose that just as there is a "Godwin's Law" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law), there should be a "Tesla's Law" for discussions about "free energy" and "wireless power" and other such frivolities.

 Add super caps to that new law and that would be worth having.

Don't forget graphene.
 

Online tom66

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Re: WAVE: A cell phone that charges battery with wifi signal.
« Reply #49 on: June 02, 2015, 11:41:49 am »
"With Wi-Fi for communications, you only want to transmit when you have data to send," Talla says. "But for power delivery, you want to transmit something all the time. There's a clear mismatch."

To get around this, the team designed software that broadcasts meaningless data across several Wi-Fi channels when no one is using the internet.

Small devices could use this as part of an internet of things, says Ben Potter at the University of Reading, UK.

Wat. So... We needlessly clutter the already cluttered 2.4GHz space so that people can gather a few mW to charge their phones. Not to mention the dreadful inefficiency of most 2.4GHz wifi routers (mine pulls 9W when active.)

 


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