Author Topic: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?  (Read 4433 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2196
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #50 on: June 08, 2021, 09:12:47 am »
Quote
But those DC electrons wouldn't be pure DC. They were once AC. It would require yet more audiophoolery stuff to replace every tainted AC electron with a pure, sonically perfect DC electron.

Next thing you know, they’ll be offering non-directional diodes to unrectify the noisy DC.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 10:05:48 pm by SL4P »
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline Bassman59

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2166
  • Country: us
  • Yes, I do this for a living
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2021, 07:16:34 pm »
Much more intelligent discussion on the topic of fuses, and their potential to affect the sound of an amplifier:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/audiophile-fuses.2348393/

After reading through that thread, I came to the same conclusion as poster Phildick: "What you need to consider is how the power supply in the amp works here. The incoming AC is converted to lower voltage DC and stored in large capacitors. On switch on the caps are charged up to capacity and kept topped up. It is the electric in the caps that drive the amp not the mains cable or any fuses on the AC side. So, if taking the fuse out of circuit make a difference the amp must be faulty or badly designed."

I have no idea about the "venerable Audiolab 8000A" but if it's an audiophile product, one must assume that it has a shitty power supply.
 

Offline MrMobodies

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1120
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #52 on: June 11, 2021, 09:16:23 pm »
I'd thought it would be interesting to see if that "Positive Feedback" certificate for their Orange fuse is real:



https://positive-feedback.com/masthead/


Hopefully they'll reply back next week.
 

Offline james_s

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16657
  • Country: us
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #53 on: June 11, 2021, 10:17:05 pm »
Back when digital cameras were new and very expensive, a colleague borrowed the company's highest resolution device - 640 x 480 (!) - for the weekend. He came back in on Monday with his tail between his legs. He said he thought the different sizes of barrel and pin were always keyed to the voltage / polarity, so he merrily plugged 12V the wrong way round into a 3V (or whatever) port. Naturally, this provided all the opportunity the magic smoke needed to make its escape.

I don't recall the aftermath. Both he and the then-boss passed away some years ago. But not, I might add, as a direct result of polarity / voltage errors.

I've seen that a lot, people assume that if the plug fits it will work. A lot of audio equipment in particular gets damaged because for reasons I don't really understand most audio gear uses center negative while most other equipment is center positive.
 

Offline SL4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2196
  • Country: au
  • There's more value if you figure it out yourself!
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #54 on: June 11, 2021, 10:27:03 pm »
I always rationalised this as the  outer ‘shield’ grounded (-),  but never took it for granted!
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11455
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2021, 12:35:07 am »
When I see this audiophoolery I should be shocked and apalled….. but I am not. We live in a World where some people think that Planet Earth is flat  :palm: 

A fool and their money are easily parted  ;D

The people who make this ludicrous Audiophool kit are probably delusional as well so may actually think they are modern Einstein’s where Hi Fidelity Audio is concerned. People can make and buy what they want with their own money though, so these companies continue to exist with little or no official interest in their ludicrous claims.

Has anyone asked an Audiophool how they cope with the fact that the original recording systems that produce the media they play had none of this ‘special’ kit used in them  ? Or do they buy ‘special’ recordings on ‘special’ media from ‘special’ trusted sources ?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 12:16:17 pm by Fraser »
 
The following users thanked this post: MrMobodies

Offline dunkemhigh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3413
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2021, 01:47:21 am »
Quote
Has anyone asked an Audiophool how they cope with the fact that the original recording systems that produce the media they play had none of this ‘special’ kit used in them  ?

I don't see a problem there. The original may be magically perfect, or could be atrociously bad, but that's not relevant (and is unfixable anyway). What they are concerned with, presumably, is that stuff they can control doesn't make it worse.

 

Offline MrMobodies

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1120
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2021, 04:03:04 am »
I got the email back very quick about that certificate and that was genuine and issued last December.

Just reread this:
https://www.synergisticresearch.com/fuses/orange-fuse/
Quote
Q: Are fuses directional?

A: Yes, fuses are directional.  Electricity should flow from the left to the right when you view the fuse.  If you do not know the direction of flow you should listen to the fuse inserted in both directions
.

Say it was directional like with diodes, how is that even possible for the fuse (one component) to be inserted in both directions at the same time like that as what I think they are suggesting?

Speaking of orange fuses I remember these:
https://highend-electronics.com/products/audio-magic-premiere-beeswax-super-fuse?variant=1203927563



I question in relation to "electron flow" what effect is that tiny bit of honey around whatever material that is going to do for the sound and what if you insert them in the wrong way?
Like that tiny drip of honey Beeswax on the ouside is going to do anything.

Just found a discussion about these orange fuses on AudioGoon:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-sr-orange-fuse
Quote
AudioGoon jaybe695 posts
10-09-2019 12:43pm

I find SR fuses to blow much more easily than a normal fuse with the same rating. After this happening a few times with the Blues I took the advise of Alfred at High End Electronics and bought a slightly higher rating fuse but it too eventually blew. Two pieces of highly regarded equipment this happened with that otherwise have no problems.

No problems with the fuses blowing? Well that says something.

So an orange one of these blows up more than a normal use, that can't be right can it, that it should blow like that to be replaced more often and even with a higher rating but the normal fuses were blowing less then there must be something obviously not right with the equipment.

The two pieces of equipment are so "highly regarded" that it's perfectly fine for them to develop a fault and blow up fuses, that makes them okay and safe because they're "high regraded".
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 04:10:46 am by MrMobodies »
 

Offline AndyC_772

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3846
  • Country: gb
  • Professional design engineer
    • Cawte Engineering | Reliable Electronics
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2021, 05:40:55 am »
So, if taking the fuse out of circuit make a difference the amp must be faulty or badly designed."

I have no idea about the "venerable Audiolab 8000A" but if it's an audiophile product, one must assume that it has a shitty power supply.

The complete schematic is posted here, you can analyse it for yourself. It's about the most basic linear PSU possible, very typical for the time and probably wouldn't pass EMC if it were tested to today's standards.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/audiophile-fuses.2348393/page-6

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5703
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2021, 12:03:52 pm »
Well if fuses are directional, then so must be resistors. So are all the resistors in the stereo amp or other box all inserted the right way? Or all the wiring?

What they come up with is something to sell that can be replaced by the customer. Are they selling directional resistors to replace all the ones in your system? Nope, because most people wouldn't take apart the box and do that kind of work. If they did, they would sell directional replacement resistors. We're trying to analyze the irrational, rationally. It won't ever reveal anything more than people are ... irrational and there are plenty of scammers waiting to take their money.



"There's a sucker born every minute"

P.T. Barnum
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 12:38:32 am by xrunner »
[hp] Hewlett . Packard
 

Offline Fraser

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 11455
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2021, 12:24:09 pm »
Dunkemhigh,

Regarding the source material….. I agree but what I was meaning was…. With some audiophiles so focussed on maximum audio fidelity, how do they mentally cope with the idea that the source material is so ‘compromised’ at the recording stage. When people are spending many thousands of Dollars on cables etc, I would expect their minds to implode when they realised how ‘appallingly poor’ the equipment was that actually captured the original audio signal ;D  In an Audiophoolery environment that hates anything less than ‘acoustic perfection’ how can a source of less than perfection be tolerated ? It may well be beyond the Audiophile to correct the terrible fidelity issues that they might perceive being introduced by such ‘imperfect’ recording studios but surely that would annoy their amazing ‘sonically calibrated and perfect’ ear drums that they moisturise daily with concentrated Angels tears  ;D

The perfectionist can have a very troubled mind in an imperfect World !

And let us not forget the old saying… garbage in - garbage out  ;D

Oh you could so mess with an audiophiles head if you really wanted to  :-+

To be clear…. We are discussing Audiophoolery and Audiophools here and NOT Hi-Fidelity enthusiasts for whom I have nothing but respect. High Fidelity reproduction of a source material, no matter what the original quality, is totally understandable. Worrying about the electron flow direction in a power supply fuse is a million miles away from the thought processes of Hi-Fidelity enthusiasts and designers that I have met….. they live in the real world and genuinely care about correct amplifier design, component noise figures, crosstalk, harmonic distortion and other specifications that are based upon good science and fact rather than Snake Oil salesman Audiophoolery theories and products.

If a Hi-Fidelity designer asked me to pay £10K for his amplifier because he has spent 15 years of his life perfecting it and hand picked components, based on real testing in order to create the best possible bandwidth, noise floor, distortion, channel balance and separation…. All hand built on very high quality PCB’s with only first grade components of the highest true (not Audiophool) specifications, I might consider his product worthy of such an asking price.
A life’s work deserves just rewards. I still would not spend that sort of money on the amplifier though as I know my poor ‘acoustically abused’ ears are over 50 years old and imperfect ! ;D
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 02:38:09 pm by Fraser »
 
The following users thanked this post: MazeFrame

Offline dunkemhigh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3413
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #61 on: June 12, 2021, 01:18:15 pm »
Quote
Nope, because most people wouldn't take apart the box and do that kind of work. If they did, they would sell directional replacement resistors.

They wouldn't take it apart to desolder a resistor and solder a new one in but... perhaps they might take it apart to attach the stick-on uni-directional e-field tube wrapper. Easy for the owner, and since the tube has to be split to get it on, you can always say they didn't join up the edges correctly if they don't notice any difference. You could make it out of something quite brittle too.
 

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5703
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #62 on: June 12, 2021, 02:25:30 pm »
Quote
Nope, because most people wouldn't take apart the box and do that kind of work. If they did, they would sell directional replacement resistors.

They wouldn't take it apart to desolder a resistor and solder a new one in but... perhaps they might take it apart to attach the stick-on uni-directional e-field tube wrapper. Easy for the owner, and since the tube has to be split to get it on, you can always say they didn't join up the edges correctly if they don't notice any difference. You could make it out of something quite brittle too.

Now your getting it. You can make money on that!  :-DD
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 04:20:27 pm by xrunner »
[hp] Hewlett . Packard
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf