Author Topic: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?  (Read 7940 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7485
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2021, 01:44:26 pm »
I am considering the ethical implications of this market as there must be enough idiots out there to actually sell this shit to them.

I already have this product in early development:



If they're so freaked out about mains power and the AC to DC power supply, why not design all the audiophool stuff for DC power? Power it all from a big battery bank. Ultra pure DC power. For all the money they pay for quacky power wiring you could probably get a decent bank of pure DC and just let the damn thing re-charge overnight.

 :-DD
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w, bd139

Offline JohnnyMalaria

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1154
  • Country: us
    • Enlighten Scientific LLC
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2021, 02:19:23 pm »


If they're so freaked out about mains power and the AC to DC power supply, why not design all the audiophool stuff for DC power? Power it all from a big battery bank. Ultra pure DC power. For all the money they pay for quacky power wiring you could probably get a decent bank of pure DC and just let the damn thing re-charge overnight.

 :-DD

But those DC electrons wouldn't be pure DC. They were once AC. It would require yet more audiophoolery stuff to replace every tainted AC electron with a pure, sonically perfect DC electron.
 
The following users thanked this post: xrunner, boffin

Offline Ultrapurple

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1027
  • Country: gb
  • Just zis guy, you know?
    • Therm-App Users on Flickr
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2021, 03:16:19 pm »

I know there are some standards from the 1990's about round barrel connectors for power, not sure if there is more history behind that and standardisation of them.

One benefit: don't have to look when plugging them in, very easy to do by feel and rotation doesn't matter.

Back when digital cameras were new and very expensive, a colleague borrowed the company's highest resolution device - 640 x 480 (!) - for the weekend. He came back in on Monday with his tail between his legs. He said he thought the different sizes of barrel and pin were always keyed to the voltage / polarity, so he merrily plugged 12V the wrong way round into a 3V (or whatever) port. Naturally, this provided all the opportunity the magic smoke needed to make its escape.

I don't recall the aftermath. Both he and the then-boss passed away some years ago. But not, I might add, as a direct result of polarity / voltage errors.
Rubber bands bridge the gap between WD40 and duct tape.
 

Offline themadhippy

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2521
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2021, 03:40:54 pm »
Quote
Power it all from a big battery bank.
But wot about  the noise from the chemical reaction in the battery ,that will cause  audio distortion.Of course i can sell you a device in a fetching black box to cut down the noise,for a price.
 
The following users thanked this post: xrunner

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23017
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2021, 03:59:43 pm »
I am considering the ethical implications of this market as there must be enough idiots out there to actually sell this shit to them.

I already have this product in early development:



If they're so freaked out about mains power and the AC to DC power supply, why not design all the audiophool stuff for DC power? Power it all from a big battery bank. Ultra pure DC power. For all the money they pay for quacky power wiring you could probably get a decent bank of pure DC and just let the damn thing re-charge overnight.

 :-DD

So basically giant AirPods?  :-DD
 
The following users thanked this post: xrunner

Offline vk6zgo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7547
  • Country: au
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2021, 06:21:44 am »
hey quick question.

Why do laptop PSUs have that mains connector and not a ordinary IEC one?

You mean the "cloverleaf" shaped one, not the ordinary "jug plug"?

The same reason figure 8 is used on metal-chassis appliances: it's cheaper.  Mickey-mouse/cloverleaf/C5/C6 IEC cables only need to use wire rated to 2.5A, not 10A.

Quote
More to the point, why on earth do they use those bloody useless "barrel connectors" for the low voltage side, instead of a plain old 2 pin rectangular connector like CB radios & the like used to use?

Do you have a pic of the rectangular connector you're reffering to?  I think I've seen lots over the years, including ones that take mains instead of LVDC.

The ones I'm thinking of were used in some CBs (not all), & from memory, a "standalone" car cassette player I had a few years before that.
They were definitely rectangular, with, from memory, a narrow keyway one one side, different pin spacing, & smaller pins compared to the "binocular" type connectors used on electric shavers.

Some ham radios used different 12v connectors which you could butcher the  shaver ones to fit, but hams were smart enough to cut the mains plug off before they used them.

The one AVGresponding shows would be OK, too, but maybe a tad bulky.
Quote

I know there are some standards from the 1990's about round barrel connectors for power, not sure if there is more history behind that and standardisation of them.

One benefit: don't have to look when plugging them in, very easy to do by feel and rotation doesn't matter.

You often have to wiggle them to make sure they are connecting, though, & the jack inside the laptop is incredibly flimsy.

Yaesu, for some reason, delighted in having the positive on the barrel outside for their handheld & portable radios.
This would be OK, if they are operating from, or being charged by, a power supply at home, but a bit problematical if used in a car.

My old FT290R was, apart from being a bit low on output power, ideal as a mobile, as well as a portable transceiver.

The problem was, if you accidently dropped the lead in the usual negative earth car, it would perversely not fall on plastic or carpet, but seek out any bare metal, delivering a nice "zap", scaring the living bejabbers out of me, apart from sometimes blowing a car fuse, or if not, scarring  a nice piece of metal trim.
 

Offline cougercatTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: us
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2021, 07:14:45 am »
Every audiophile has got to have one of these nylon UFE receptacles that can be had for under 5 bucks at any big box store.  One can tell the super quality difference between the orange, blue and black ones.  Just ask them.

https://www.synergisticresearch.com/power/accessories/uef-black-duplex/


Here they are $199.99.  I must be missing something here.

 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16265
  • Country: za
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2021, 07:29:30 am »
I have some of those PTFE cables, got them for free, so took them apart and used the individual cores to make test leads. Works well for that, as the resistance is low, and if you have an oopsie and overload them they just get hot, and nothing else, though you probably will be replacing the banana connector on the end, as it likely has melted.
 

Offline cougercatTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: us
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2021, 07:39:00 am »
Teflon or PTFE actually will sustain a flame once it starts burning.  Try lighting some Teflon pipe tape, but keep away from the fumes.  I've heard that Teflon emits Fluorine, which is harmful.

 |O |O
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21566
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2021, 08:04:56 am »
Elemental fluorine isn't so much of a hazard (as there's plenty of carbon for it to stick to already) as the decomposition products, including lovely chemicals like PFOA (perfluorooctanoic acid -- an 8-carbon unit of former-PTFE with an organic acid group on the end).  Lots of carcinogens in there.

Y'know, I wonder... I wouldn't be surprised if the safest, most thorough way to dispose of PTFE is to incinerate it -- very hot, in the presence of steam, yielding HF and CO2.

...Ah and yep, it is indeed fine, in fact it doesn't even need super high temperatures to do it:
https://www.gore-tex.com/sites/default/files/docs/Chemosphere_Incineration%20Study_Executive-Summary%20(002).pdf
I mean, 1000C is a good bit more than your average charcoal grill, but it's pretty ordinary for enclosed fires and industrial processes.  That's a typical kiln temperature for example.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16265
  • Country: za
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2021, 08:14:56 am »
Common for a lot of medical single use consumables to have PTFE as a lining or component in them, because of the biocompatability of inert PTFE with the body. As all is incinerated the PTFE will be burned as well, another good reason why you to not want to live downwind of an incinerator. The other common disposal method is to simply bury it, where it will survive for centuries, along with glass and ceramics.
 

Offline Ranayna

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 852
  • Country: de
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2021, 01:52:12 pm »
Much more intelligent discussion on the topic of fuses, and their potential to affect the sound of an amplifier:

https://www.avforums.com/threads/audiophile-fuses.2348393/

That Thread was an excellent read.
And i like that the poster stuck to his guns.

In conclusion, i would say: Make something crappy enough, and it *will* have an effect. A negative one.
But solid standard construction is apparently more than enough.
 

Offline station240

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 967
  • Country: au
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #37 on: May 08, 2021, 02:23:56 pm »

*Quantum Tunneling: Post Production process, 1 million volts are passed through finished cable providing a “canal” that allows electrons to pass more freely through conductor material and connection.
*5 day Burn-in: 2 step process


I've no doubt that if I passed 1 million volts thru a finished cable, I would instantly find it's time to make a replacement one.

Where on earth do they get a million volts from anyway ?
Does anyone believe they have the required 3 story tall transformer needed to generate such voltages ?
Maybe Doc Brown hangs the finished cables from a clock tower during a storm  :-DD
 

Offline Cyberdragon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2676
  • Country: us
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2021, 02:44:33 pm »

*Quantum Tunneling: Post Production process, 1 million volts are passed through finished cable providing a “canal” that allows electrons to pass more freely through conductor material and connection.
*5 day Burn-in: 2 step process


I've no doubt that if I passed 1 million volts thru a finished cable, I would instantly find it's time to make a replacement one.

Where on earth do they get a million volts from anyway ?
Does anyone believe they have the required 3 story tall transformer needed to generate such voltages ?
Maybe Doc Brown hangs the finished cables from a clock tower during a storm  :-DD

Marx generators, Vaan De Graff's, Tesla coils, all can generate tremendous voltage. They didn't say it was continuous either, or at how much current.
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline Terry Bites

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2333
  • Country: gb
  • Recovering Electrical Engineer
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2021, 11:15:48 am »
isnt that a cheap diode?
BTW electrons do not flow.
 

Online Ed.Kloonk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4000
  • Country: au
  • Cat video aficionado
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2021, 11:46:32 am »
BTW electrons do not flow.

?

Quote
When the electrons flow through the battery they gain energy, but when they flow through the bulb they lose energy as it is converted to other forms like light and heat.

https://www.physics.uoguelph.ca/electron-flow
iratus parum formica
 

Offline Terry Bites

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2333
  • Country: gb
  • Recovering Electrical Engineer
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2021, 06:57:32 pm »
A common misonception. its way of visualuisng things but its quite untrue. Current is defined as the rate of flow of charge not yellow balls! Think of the electons surrounding atoms in a conductor as a bucket brigade for charge. One of these electrons picks up some charge which is picked off by the next and so on.
It more like pushing on the end of a rod. The force is tranmitted but the rod remains unchanged. It more complicated than that of course.
Only few electrons in a wire are actually moving at all. The ones that do move at a snails pace, or less.
The false idea that electrons flow is so widely regurgited that its taken as physical fact -it is not, its an analogy thats a bit better than the water one.
This idea seems to be deeply upsetting for some, not least to vacuum tube enthusiasts. Its the charge created by the hot cathode that is acclerated to the anode not the electons themselves running about. A hot cathode does the same job as a cold cathode. The heating allows us to use a much smaller cathode area to obtain the same effect as a cold one.
 

Offline Gyro

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9392
  • Country: gb
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2021, 07:23:27 pm »

The false idea that electrons flow is so widely regurgited that its taken as physical fact -it is not, its an analogy thats a bit better than the water one.
This idea seems to be deeply upsetting for some, not least to vacuum tube enthusiasts. Its the charge created by the hot cathode that is acclerated to the anode not the electons themselves running about. A hot cathode does the same job as a cold cathode. The heating allows us to use a much smaller cathode area to obtain the same effect as a cold one.

So the "charge" from the hot cathode in a Pentode valve impacts the anode with sufficient force that it knocks off some secondary "charges" that are collected by the [Edit:screen suppressor] grid, preventing the characteristic Tetrode kink?

Do "charges" have mass then?  :-\


P.S. How do the "charges" in an X-Ray tube work? Genuinely curious.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2021, 09:52:29 pm by Gyro »
Best Regards, Chris

"Victor Meldrew, the Crimson Avenger!"
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21566
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2021, 09:43:25 pm »
What's wrong with the hydraulic analogy?  When one understands atomic theory, one knows that liquid water is composed of *illions of molecules banging around at about 1500 m/s.  Almost any flow rate you'll encounter, is a small fraction of this, and so we can make the same observation that pressure is transmitted from molecules bumping into each other, not so much the overall flow; and that the dominant motion is internal and random.

It's an uninteresting argument, and worst of all, doesn't illuminate anything to the reader.  So what if it's mostly random motion, does that just mean it's getting hot or something?  No, that's just thermal energy.  Oh, and it's too small to see.  Well so what.  (Well, yes actually, it is effectively the origin of resistance.  But proving it gives a proportional [Ohm's] law, is much harder.  Or understanding the sequence of facts that are required to derive such a law -- that's whole-ass statistical mechanics, arguably. :o )

What's interesting is when the charges are "free" to flow, i.e. in free space under the influence of fields, ballistically, rather than damped out by random motions.  Then we find a V^(3/2) power (Child-Langmuir) law, we find mass and we find everything that we expect as a consequence from that (i.e. all the electron-resonant microwave tubes).

Cool fact, the electrode (especially grid) capacitance of a late model vacuum tube about doubles going from cold, to hot and biased.  The cathode electron cloud expands and contracts in response to the grid's electric field, giving and taking energy from the electric field; mass is a conservative property, and so too is the manifestation at the electrode -- reactance.  If some of the cloud happens to leave, however, its initial energy is carried off with it -- beam current causes loss, manifest as grid conductance/resistance, however you like to express it.  This extends to subsequent electrodes, too: the screen, suppressor, etc. experience a small transconductance, from grid to grid, even when the later grid is reverse-biased (as suppressor or pentagrid control 2).  The reciprocal is not true, however: the beam acts as a conveyor belt, breaking symmetry, and thus this is a nonreciprocal property (gm(1-3) nonzero but gm(3-1) zero, or, effectively just plain old interelectrode capacitance because it's not going to be |zero| in practice).

This property is even used to advantage in some types: dual-control pentodes (6HZ6 etc.) and sheet pentodes (6BN6 etc.) can be used for FM discriminator service, where g3 is simply tied to GND through a high impedance parallel LC tank.  gm13 is quite small (10s umho?) so the impedance needs to be quite high (100s kohm), but given this, it resonates sympathetically with the driven source.  g3 voltage acts to gate the output (plate) current, so the plate current ends up PWM with respect to the phase shift between source and resonant tank.  And that phase shift is proportional to frequency shift vs. resonance (for small enough changes in frequency -- for commercial WBFM, the Q needs to be fairly low; like I said, high impedance tank!).

Ballistic transport is also possible in some semiconductors; in others, avalanche breakdown occurs first, but when it doesn't, current flattens out, or even goes negative (as is the case for GaAs (Gunn diodes), something about varying saturation velocity in different Brillouin zones, i.e. the electrons changing directions as they travel through the crystal).

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 
The following users thanked this post: Gyro, newbrain

Offline Haenk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1065
  • Country: de
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2021, 08:41:32 am »
If it's a quantum fuse, does that mean it's simultaneously blown and intact?

And don't ever blow it or open it - a dead cat might or might not escape.
 

Offline coromonadalix

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5780
  • Country: ca
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2021, 08:56:41 am »
just read the op link        wow  that made me laugh  thnks    stupidity at its best     directional quantum fuses  loll     

gonna listen interstellar movie again  loll    :-DD
 

Offline Sal Ammoniac

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1660
  • Country: us
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2021, 10:56:05 pm »
If it's a quantum fuse, does that mean it's simultaneously blown and intact?

Yes, it's for quantum customers--ones are are simultaneously rich and dumb.
Complexity is the number-one enemy of high-quality code.
 

Offline TimFox

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7910
  • Country: us
  • Retired, now restoring antique test equipment
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2021, 03:33:44 pm »
For a quantum fuse to be subject to the  Schrödinger's Cat  paradox, it must be inside an opaque (e.g., ceramic) tube so that the observer throws away information to which he is physically entitled.
With a glass tube, the fuse can be inspected visually without disturbing its state, just like the poor cat imprisoned in a glass cage rather than an opaque Bakelite cage.  Room illumination through the glass cage does not affect the quantum state of the radioactive nuclide that triggers the poison.
 

Online bdunham7

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7689
  • Country: us
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2021, 03:47:57 pm »
I've no doubt that if I passed 1 million volts thru a finished cable, I would instantly find it's time to make a replacement one.

Where on earth do they get a million volts from anyway ?
Does anyone believe they have the required 3 story tall transformer needed to generate such voltages ?
Maybe Doc Brown hangs the finished cables from a clock tower during a storm  :-DD

Ted has a Tesla coil...       (go to 5:40)


« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 03:50:29 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline PlainName

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6769
  • Country: va
Re: $159.00 Directional Fuse Hogwash?
« Reply #49 on: June 08, 2021, 08:54:57 am »
Blimey!

I thought these were something being flogged by a one-man band capturing the odd credulous sweepings off the floor to make a few bob, but it's enough to sustain an actual company with significant overheads. And employees, which prompts: surely they must realise it's bullshit and they just scamming people - it ain't just one bloke without morals but an entire company of them.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf