[BigClive] Inside a fake un-trippable circuit breaker

[MK14]

This is complete madness. It could cause terrible fires, electrocution, expensive device destruction, etc etc.

Sooner or later, it could force the people in charge, to take action.

[Gyro]

Is nothing sacred for these bastards? 

[drussell]

This is complete madness. It could cause terrible fires, electrocution, expensive device destruction, etc etc.

Well, only if someone is silly enough to actually install some cheap Chinese switch device that is labelled as a circuit breaker into something.  If it were labelled as a three-phase disconnect switch, then okay, maybe... but trying to pass it off as a circuit breaker is pretty devious.  Obviously it has no real certifications or anything and would never be sold by any reputable supplier.   

If someone imports random cheap no-name shit from China and actually uses it for anything important, they're insane!

[MK14]

Well, only if someone is silly enough to actually install some cheap Chinese switch device that is labelled as a circuit breaker into something.  If it were labelled as a three-phase disconnect switch, then okay, maybe... but trying to pass it off as a circuit breaker is pretty devious.  Obviously it has no real certifications or anything and would never be sold by any reputable supplier.   

If someone imports random cheap no-name shit from China and actually uses it for anything important, they're insane!

Technically (otherwise it is against the law in the UK, for new installations), UK householders/landlords, need to get properly qualified Electricians, to do significant electrical work (there are some exceptions).
But, to do the job properly, can mean they give eye wateringly expensive quotes/bills.
Although many people will realise the importance of getting the job done properly/professionally/safely, not everyone will.

We call them cowboys, who will offer to do the electrical work on the cheap, even though they are not qualified to do it, or even really know how to do it. They may also choose the cheapest/nastiest parts, to get the job done. Hence items, like in the video above.

Unfortunately, I can see these being installed into peoples homes and some business's. For a number of people, cheapest = best and what they will use.

Also, I suspect in a bad case, these could also cause a mini-explosion (i.e. like a multimeter, without a proper high current rupture fuse in it), or possibly blow the big fuse which limits the current into UK peoples homes. But costs a small fortune, to get the electricity company to come out and fix it.

[Bud]

If someone imports random cheap no-name shit from China and actually uses it for anything important, they're insane!

This ^^ 

[james_s]

Yikes, there are some things where it really pays to buy good quality stuff from a reputable supplier.

My concern is mostly for cases like rental units where a landlord may get duped into installing something like this and the tenants are blissfully unaware, or counterfeit breakers showing up in an otherwise reputable store that have the appearance of being the real deal but are not. It only takes one incident like that for a bunch of units to leak out into the field and then who knows where they'll turn up.

[MK14]

If someone imports random cheap no-name shit from China and actually uses it for anything important, they're insane!

This ^^ 

But the people who post in this forum, generally realise the folly of doing that, and won't do it.

But there are many members of the public, who can't/won't see anything wrong with doing exactly that.

E.g. Someone on a news source in the UK, said they had bought a cheap battery and/or charger, for their expensive camera. It then (left to charge overnight, caught on fire and) burnt their house to the ground. They were furious and said that something should be done about it.

I.e. I don't think some of the general public understands the dangers of some of the cheap items available on ebay from abroad (usually), and other similar sales places on the internet.

[wraper]

If someone imports random cheap no-name shit from China and actually uses it for anything important, they're insane!

This ^^ 

There are counterfeits labeled with respectable brand names. And unless you buy directly from authorized distro, you have no way to know what you got. https://www.se.com/ww/en/work/support/counterfeit/

[Alti]

Sooner or later, it could force the people in charge, to take action.

What if this Shilon protects Atlas Kablo? Then it does not matter this is a dodgy MCB.
 

[MK14]

What if this Shilon protects Atlas Kablo? Then it does not matter this is a dodgy MCB.

Hopefully, the two, crazy faults would cancel out. Whereby the exploding MCB, will blow out half the on-fire faulty wire, and the other flaming half of wire, will burn up all available Oxygen. Hence safely extinguishing both fires.   

Now I'm going to have to sleep tonight, with a fire extinguisher under my pillow. 

[richnormand]

Reminded of this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fake-power-cord-why-it-came-with-a-hard-drive-reader-kit/

A nice three prong cord with proper ground pin/socket on both sides, except there is no ground wire to be found inside.
Might be OK when used in that device but potentially deadly if used on something else. Who checks this when rummaging for a line cord.
Another example of a disaster in waiting.

[MK14]

Reminded of this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/fake-power-cord-why-it-came-with-a-hard-drive-reader-kit/

A nice three prong cord with proper ground pin/socket on both sides, except there is no ground wire to be found inside.
Might be OK when used in that device but potentially deadly if used on something else. Who checks this when rummaging for a line cord.
Another example of a disaster in waiting.

Maybe a possible solution is to have some kind of safety assurance registration schemes (yes I know, they already exist). If the item, for sale on ebay (from abroad), has valid documentation, for the appropriate safety assurances, it can be placed as normal.

But if not (no valid safety assurances), the seller (e.g. ebay), has to (by a new law, I'm suggesting, now), put up a large safety/warning message about the dangers of buying stuff from abroad that has NOT got valid safety assurances.
Ideally, the warning message has to be clicked, in order to make it disappear.

DANGER, DANGER (especially if your name is Will Robinson).
RISK of lose of life, it might set fire to your home, blow up, and explode. Possibly when you least expect it. Its specifications could be widely exaggerated.
E.g. If it says, good for 10,000,000,000 watts, don't give it more than 0.000000001 watts.
Possibly a fake/clone/dangerous/faulty item(s).

Maybe/possibly, that would reduce the impact of these potentially dangerous goods.

But that wouldn't solve the problem, of some dodgy businessman, in the UK. Buying a whole container load of really cheap items, such as these (pre-short-circuited with nails, circuit-breakers). Then quietly selling them on smaller markets, around the UK. Who (unfortunately), have a reputation, for potentially (ignore the pun) selling such items.

It probably causes serious competition issues. If we want to sell something (perhaps electronics), we have to design it to be safe, and pay lots of money to have all the compliance (safety) checks and things done. We have to take care that no patents are breached, or copyright/trademarks are infringed.

Whereas another country(s), can just toss it in the post (typically with tiny postal costs, and possibly not paying any taxes/VAT), to customers in the UK. (The VAT/duties system, has been revised since the beginning of 2021, so that might change).

tl;dr
There seems to be a lot wrong with the current system, not just safety wise. I hope that the powers that be, can resolve it, without making it even harder for us in the UK. Red-tape (excessive paper-work), tax and rules/regulation wise.

[wraper]

If the item, for sale on ebay (from abroad), has valid documentation, for the appropriate safety assurances, it can be placed as normal.

Documentation can be forged with little effort, it solves nothing.

[MK14]

Documentation can be forged with little effort, it solves nothing.

I was thinking of something smarter, whereby it is computerised, possibly with registration codes, that can be checked/verified on the internet. But that could probably still be abused or worked around, by determined bad sellers as well.

It is NOT such an easy problem to solve.

I worry, that if e.g. the EU tries to solve it. It will just create a huge amount of hassle, excessive paper-work (red-tape), and other difficulties. Without really solving the real problem.
Or they may even somewhat ban importing small parcels purchased from sites, such as ebay.

[wraper]

I was thinking of something smarter, whereby it is computerised, possibly with registration codes, that can be checked/verified on the internet. But that could probably still be abused or worked around, by determined bad sellers as well.

Even individual serials get cloned to pass online check.

[MK14]

Even individual serials get cloned to pass online check.

I wonder if they could create new laws, so that the website organisation that handles the sale (e.g. ebay, Ali-express, etc), MUST take responsibility for the sale.
So, that if it is fake/faulty/dangerous/illegal/incorrectly-advertised, they have to take responsibility, refund the money. Pay compensation, be sued, etc etc.

Hopefully that would work. Except it could see organisations such as ebay, just simply pull out of selling such stuff, in the first place.

Which would still leave bad businessmen/women in the UK, to buy in (import), potentially dodgy/dangerous items and sell them on the black/grey markets, that unfortunately exist.
i.e. if you sell something cheaply enough, sadly people will still flock to it, and buy the things up.

But at least we could have UK inspectors, who can check out the various markets, around the UK. So, maybe that would/could work ?

[Halcyon]

I was thinking of something smarter, whereby it is computerised, possibly with registration codes, that can be checked/verified on the internet. But that could probably still be abused or worked around, by determined bad sellers as well.

Even individual serials get cloned to pass online check.

Surely this could be easily remedied by having a "counter". Each time that same serial has been looked up, it increments by one. Let that count be visible to the user and also display a warning that "This item may be second-hand or counterfeit" if it exceeds a certain threshold. The first owner of a product should only need to look up an item serial number once. Anything with a count of >1 would be considered a "Conditional Pass".

[MK14]

Surely this could be easily remedied by having a "counter". Each time that same serial has been looked up, it increments by one. Let that count be visible to the user and also display a warning that "This item may be second-hand or counterfeit" if it exceeds a certain threshold. The first owner of a product should only need to look up an item serial number once. Anything with a count of >1 would be considered a "Conditional Pass".

That is a very clever idea. Some potentially SPAM phone number checking websites. Basically use that method.

I.e. A potentially suspicious number calls. You check it, and it says nobody has ever checked that number before. There is a good chance it is someone really trying to call you, or a one-off wrong number.

But if it says (which it does, for some telephone SPAMers), 237 reports, 189 of them reporting it as SPAM. You get an indication, that, that telephone number is potentially a spammer.

[Ed.Kloonk]

Even individual serials get cloned to pass online check.

I wonder if they could create new laws, so that the website organisation that handles the sale (e.g. ebay, Ali-express, etc), MUST take responsibility for the sale.
So, that if it is fake/faulty/dangerous/illegal/incorrectly-advertised, they have to take responsibility, refund the money. Pay compensation, be sued, etc etc.

Hopefully that would work. Except it could see organisations such as ebay, just simply pull out of selling such stuff, in the first place.

Which would still leave bad businessmen/women in the UK, to buy in (import), potentially dodgy/dangerous items and sell them on the black/grey markets, that unfortunately exist.
i.e. if you sell something cheaply enough, sadly people will still flock to it, and buy the things up.

But at least we could have UK inspectors, who can check out the various markets, around the UK. So, maybe that would/could work ?

Everyone will dance around the fact that if someone dies because of this device, it is terrorism. Nothing more.

[Halcyon]

I wonder if they could create new laws, so that the website organisation that handles the sale (e.g. ebay, Ali-express, etc), MUST take responsibility for the sale.
So, that if it is fake/faulty/dangerous/illegal/incorrectly-advertised, they have to take responsibility, refund the money. Pay compensation, be sued, etc etc.

We have such laws. It's called Australian Consumer Law.

[Shock]

The dodgy mains wiring that Lu Luo (female) imported from China into Australia that then managed to get resold through major suppliers caused an estimated $80 million to recable. The insulation could fail in as little as 3 years and also lead to house fires.

Can you imagine building a new house that needs to be completely recabled, that would suck. But better than it burning to the ground in the middle of the night while you sleep.

[MK14]

Everyone will dance around the fact that if someone dies because of this device, it is terrorism. Nothing more.

Without being too pedantic about what it is called, you are right.

Different countries, seem to have different names for it. But it is "Negligent Homicide"/"Negligent Manslaughter"/"Third degree Involuntary Murder", etc etc.

But I accept, opinions on what it should be or is called, and the degree of culpability on the part of the seller/manufacturer of such dangerous goods. Is probably subject to fairly widely differing opinions.

I was especially horrified by the part of the video, where it shows that the switch mechanism, was actually a designed/manufactured/working piece of stuff. Even though, the functionality was completely ruined, by the shorting piece of wire.

How an even partly competent engineer, can sit down and design (come up with), such highly dangerous designs. I don't know. Crazy Indeed!       

[Ed.Kloonk]

The dodgy mains wiring that Lu Luo (female) imported from China into Australia that then managed to get resold through major suppliers caused an estimated $80 million to recable. The insulation could fail in as little as 3 years and also lead to house fires.

Can you imagine building a new house that needs to be completely recabled, that would suck. But better than it burning to the ground in the middle of the night while you sleep.

Sleep with a dog and a smoke detector. 

[Ed.Kloonk]

Everyone will dance around the fact that if someone dies because of this device, it is terrorism. Nothing more.

Without being too pedantic about what it is called, you are right.

I realised I misspoke after I pushed post. But yeah..

[MK14]

We have such laws. It's called Australian Consumer Law.

We also have such laws. It is just that cheap items, bought on ebay from abroad (and somewhat often these days, they even have UK warehouses, full of the stuff), don't seem to have such laws applied to them.

I suppose it is because the laws, were written/implemented, many decades ago. before the internet/ebay/ and other countries commonly selling lots of small (and potentially unsafe/fake) items, even existed.

For whatever reason, the laws don't seem to have been modernized/changed enough (or at all) to handle the current situation. So the stuff just gets imported as small items (or even by the container load), these days.

Alternatively/arguably the laws, do already exist. It is just that common practice is for the authorities, to not significantly/often enforce them. So, the practice just continues, relatively unabated.
Opinions on this, can vary.