Poll

3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?

Very useful power efficiency control products.
2 (3%)
Software Defined Electricity is the future!
1 (1.5%)
Nothing new, all been done before.
4 (6.1%)
Not sure / don't know.
5 (7.6%)
Probably mostly just snake oil / scam.
54 (81.8%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?  (Read 20400 times)

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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #150 on: August 15, 2019, 12:09:04 am »
Sorry for being late to the party, but what's so controversial about all this except the buzzword marketing?

Storing 0.6 KJ for active PFC seems to fit in the box fine. Crowbarring a surge into a water cooled resistor so your MOVs only have to absorb a small amount of a surge doesn't really seem out of the realm of possibility either. Water can absorb a lot more energy than a MOV without breaking.

Please read the entire thread...then you'll understand the pure lunacy.
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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #151 on: August 15, 2019, 12:12:24 am »
Your jealousy is palpable  :-DD

The stench of your incompetance has made the engineering community vomit. :-DD
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #152 on: August 15, 2019, 06:28:31 am »
I spoke multiple times to Mr. Connor. We are presently only selling in the U.S.

Mr. Connor's solar inverter is 1ph.
I'd still like to know how a solar inverter's output voltage and current can be out of phase.

After our posts on AC power measurement starting:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/3dfss-vectorq-digital-electricity-technology/msg2477325/#msg2477325

your're still complaining about the 15 min. AC power measurement by LLNL.
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1161241721881223172
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1161254846382727168

So how long should the LLNL's AC power measurement be? 6ns? :)
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline sibeen

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #153 on: August 15, 2019, 06:32:58 am »

Mr. Connor's solar inverter is 1ph.
I'd still like to know how a solar inverter's output voltage and current can be out of phase.



Wait...WTF?
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #154 on: August 15, 2019, 07:05:52 am »
Wait...WTF?

Which bit?
From the end of Reply #98: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/3dfss-vectorq-digital-electricity-technology/msg2464896/#msg2464896

cd:
"If a home has solar and an EV, the case becomes very clear though as it improves the output of the solar and charging times and rates of the ev charger"

me:
"You've mentioned the correction of the output power of solar and generators, for these devices does the VectorQ2 have to be connected backwards, think about it!"

Instead of thinking about it he said that the power correction is bi-directional, it only corrects the 3ph balance and PF as seen by the supply side, some of their claims are based on it actually fixing load's PF.
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline sibeen

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #155 on: August 15, 2019, 03:27:38 pm »
Wait...WTF?

Which bit?


Err the bit I posted where you asked how a solar inverter's output voltage and current can be out of phase. That bit.

I do realise that the VectorQ is complete bullshit but combating it with crap as above isn't a great look.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #156 on: August 15, 2019, 08:49:09 pm »
Sorry for being late to the party, but what's so controversial about all this except the buzzword marketing?

Storing 0.6 KJ for active PFC seems to fit in the box fine. Crowbarring a surge into a water cooled resistor so your MOVs only have to absorb a small amount of a surge doesn't really seem out of the realm of possibility either. Water can absorb a lot more energy than a MOV without breaking.

You missed the point of this thread. It is purely for my entertainment.

StillTrying is dying of envy from the now dozen or so products that we are selling and he whips the rest of the "thought leaders" on this thread into conclusively determining that some words on a troll forum outweigh actual science.

We have over 51K members who know actual science over your crap which is BS even on paper let alone practice. You sound exactly like a conspiracy theorist free-energy nut. Believing that everyone is against you because "ooo big brother/big buisiness conspiracy" instead of the fact that you are simply WRONG! :palm: Selling BS to gullible people (aka a scam) is not something to boast. When your crap fails to surge protect properly because it is snake oil it could cause tremendous damage leading to a hefty lawsuit. ;D
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Offline ogden

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #157 on: August 15, 2019, 09:13:03 pm »
Selling BS to gullible people (aka a scam) is not something to boast.

He knows that very well, just can't admit in public for obvious reasons.

Quote
When your crap fails to surge protect properly because it is snake oil it could cause tremendous damage leading to a hefty lawsuit. ;D

Rest assured - actual documentation and purchase contract of "product" (if any) most likely is bullet-proof from legal point of view. BTW product could be some rebranded OEM igbt phase balancer with self-made digital electricity nanosecond-level woo-woo software
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #158 on: August 15, 2019, 11:33:54 pm »
You guys are just being jealous. Apparently.

Must be some kind of software-defined jealousy.
 

Offline ogden

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #159 on: August 15, 2019, 11:58:51 pm »
You guys are just being jealous. Apparently.

Must be some kind of software-defined jealousy.

How do you know? Before we draw premature conclusions, it must be measured using 24 bit error free data and calculated accordingly.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #160 on: August 16, 2019, 12:07:44 am »
The effective number of jealousy bits.
 ;D
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #161 on: August 16, 2019, 12:14:09 am »
Selling BS to gullible people (aka a scam) is not something to boast.

He knows that very well, just can't admit in public for obvious reasons.

Quote
When your crap fails to surge protect properly because it is snake oil it could cause tremendous damage leading to a hefty lawsuit. ;D

Rest assured - actual documentation and purchase contract of "product" (if any) most likely is bullet-proof from legal point of view. BTW product could be some rebranded OEM igbt phase balancer with self-made digital electricity nanosecond-level woo-woo software

Disclamer: This product is not gauranteed to stop all surges, save any money, or prevent all electrical disturbance. Quantum energy super linear graphine batteries not included. Products sold seperately. This print may require an optical magnification device to read.

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Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #162 on: August 16, 2019, 12:19:51 am »
Err the bit I posted where you asked how a solar inverter's output voltage and current can be out of phase. That bit.

3DFS claim that power quality is very bad at generation many times, I haven't found a solar inverter one yet but this one hints at inverters being less than 60% efficient unless fixed.
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1118687111237066752

and this:
"On the supply side, take a typical coal plant, which if outfitted with SDE will output almost double the energy while burning the same amount of coal. Same with natural gas, nuclear etc. because they are all steam."

"For renewables and energy storage, inverters replaced by SDE enabled inverters will result in anywhere from 20-40% more output."
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1138117446555095041

"It is established science that the power factor, harmonics and phase balancing are the worst at generation."
https://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12204964&cid=56776034

Quote
I do realise that the VectorQ is complete bullshit

I think it really is useful for a high power 3ph user with constantly changing balance and PF loads, but not much else.

I try to avoid claims more than about 3 months old because even 3DFS are allowed to change their mind, but I've just had a look at one of their white papers to see how they explain away it causing Asynchronous Motors to Operate Synchronously, - another one of my favorites!

This white paper reviews how Software-Defined Electricity delivers digitally perfect power to every load in a power network at all times, preventing any fluctuation including transients from affecting load performance

It's a shunt voltage regulator on a 3ph supply with complete surge protection. :)

VI. Expected Results from Software-Defined Electricity™
    Load Performance and Work Output Improvement
    Example 1: Reduced Data Packet Loss in Transmission
    Example 2: Reduction of Power Supply Temperature
    Example 3: Asynchronous Motors Operate Synchronously
    Example 4: Improving Audio Recordings/Live Performances
    Example 5: RF Signal Propagation Improvement
    Example 6: Increase the Detectable Distance of RADAR
    Generator Performance and Output Improvements
    UPS, Battery Performance and Output Improvements
    Power Network Stability
    Automatic Impedance Matching
    Maintaining Separation of Power Network from Data Network
    Sustainable Surge Protection
    Stacked Layers of Energy Savings
    1st Layer - Direct Savings from Loss Prevention
    2nd - Reduced Environmental Conditioning
    3rd - Optimized Work Output Per Period of Time
    4th - Expert System in the Power Network
    Utility Penalty Reduction/Elimination
    Demand Charges
    Power Quality Related Utility Charges
    New Layer of Data
    Error Free Digital Data
    Non-Intrusive Load Monitoring
    Seamless Platform Integration Via API
    Predictive Analytics
https://3dfs.com/download/financial-benefits-of-protecting-power-networks-with-software-defined-electricity

CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #163 on: August 16, 2019, 01:24:23 am »
Haven't you already suggested that multiple times before?

No, I think it's in a link on the other thread on here but I'm not going to search.

You claim the LLNL's AC power measurement is inaccurate because it's measured over a 15 min. time interval.
What AC power measurement time period would you recommend to give a more accurate result?
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Online james_s

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #164 on: August 16, 2019, 06:37:32 am »
Haven't these threads run their course by now? Can we just lock the threads and ban this goober as is typically done with people pushing pseudoscience and other scams?
 
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Offline madires

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #165 on: August 16, 2019, 03:57:49 pm »
Another round of merry-go-round. :-//
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #166 on: August 16, 2019, 04:17:36 pm »
Another round of merry-go-round. :-//

Jump to earlier in the thread where we explained that "error free" is impossible and those sample rates are utterly rediculous. :palm:

A loony never learns, it's been scientifically proven now. Maybe he needs a padded, soundproof room with the walls covered in real science to eventually reform him. ::)
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #167 on: August 16, 2019, 06:34:48 pm »
Quote
You claim the LLNL's AC power measurement is inaccurate because it's measured over a 15 min. time interval.

PMFJI... I think I see the communication problem here.

The LLNL's measurement has to be an average and they presumably choose 15 min as a reasonable timescale for their purposes (which is to know the average). That's perfectly reasonable and appropriate.

3DFS's requirements are very different in that they need to know what the instantaneous value is in order to correct it. Thus knowing that it needed to be adjusted 15 mins ago is pointless. That's also reasonable and appropriate (which is not saying anything about what it actually does or may be possible, etc).

A way of looking at it is, as ever, using a car analogy: for fuel consumption you want an average over a journey or period of time (LLNL) but for controlling the injectors you need instantaneous numbers (3DFS).

So ISTM the two of you are batting away assuming that the opponent is talking the same thing, but you're each actually on different playing fields.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #168 on: August 19, 2019, 11:52:57 am »
We are receiving some incredible images from our client(s).

LOL
They're done by 3DFS. Only 3DFS would use a pixel aliasing effect on current wave forms as proof of "How phase balancing protects assets and infrastructure." :)

Quote
It is like the electricity has been software-defined and performs precisely.

The VectorQ2 balances and PF corrects the incoming supply's current, the 'electricity' at the loads doesn't change.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:07:05 pm by StillTrying »
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #169 on: August 19, 2019, 12:38:19 pm »
You are starting to get it!   :-+

Nice try, but you're only saying what I've been saying for ages. :-+

"The amount of power demanded by the load does not change."

The voltage, current, and PF of the loads doesn't change, which means PSUs don't run cooler, and asynchronous motors certainly don't suddenly become synchronous motors.

"This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current."

Only on the supply side of the VectorQ2. :)
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #170 on: August 19, 2019, 12:39:26 pm »


How exactly?? How does phase current redistribution affect neutral to ground current imbalances??
If there is a small but finite / significant impedance between the neutral and ground on the load side, how does one correct the neutral to ground imbalance??


Or are you suggesting your magic device can override laws of physics and electronics and magically null the neutral to ground current??


Quote from: cdoerfler on Today at 10:10:13 pm
That is correct. The amount of power demanded by the load does not change. It is the additional waste that is prevented from being drawn.

Equally drawing the current from the upstream transformer and perfectly redistributing on the appropriate phase based on demand is what is occurring here. This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current.

You are starting to get it!   :-+

If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #171 on: August 19, 2019, 01:09:29 pm »
How exactly?? How does phase current redistribution affect neutral to ground current imbalances??

There's a diagram here of course, I've already asked why E and N are connected at one of the loads.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/3dfss-vectorq-digital-electricity-technology/msg2465997/#msg2465997
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #172 on: August 19, 2019, 01:47:16 pm »
That is the explanation for current balancing in the three phases.. I get that.


cdoerfler has mentioned "This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current".


Now, I could be mistaken in my understanding. I assumed he meant zeroing of any neutral-to-earth current.
Unless of course, he meant zeroing any stray "phase to neutral / ground / earth" current. 



If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Offline ogden

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #173 on: August 19, 2019, 01:59:10 pm »
cdoerfler has mentioned "This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current".

Now, I could be mistaken in my understanding. I assumed he meant zeroing of any neutral-to-earth current.

Kind of. "Neutral current" is correct term in case of any consumer - big or small. Mentioning ground/earth may lead to frustration because earth-related currents usually associates with faults, not phase imbalance.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #174 on: August 19, 2019, 03:21:56 pm »


Hence my confusion, The neutral current is simply the sum of the individual phase currents. (in a perfect system)
We will usually have some leakage current and some neutral to earth potential, which are usually associated with a fault.


Now, any amount of mathematics and shunt correction will not remove these "faults". Again, if my understanding is flawed or imcomplete, I stand to be corrected.


Quote from: ogden on Yesterday at 11:59:10 pm


>Quote from: krish2487 on Yesterday at 11:47:16 pm
cdoerfler has mentioned "This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current".

Now, I could be mistaken in my understanding. I assumed he meant zeroing of any neutral-to-earth current.



Kind of. "Neutral current" is correct term in case of any consumer - big or small. Mentioning ground/earth may lead to frustration because earth-related currents usually associates with faults, not phase imbalance.


If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 


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