3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?

[StillTrying]

Software Defined Electricity, It's the future!
Yeah right!

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/digital-electricity/200/


I can't see the option now, but I definitely allowed the changing of your vote / your mind!

[madires]

I won't vote because I still don't know what 3DFS's VectorQ is actually doing and how. Anyway, the thread linked is a marketing disaster. We've asked several times for details but only got buzzwords and insults. And the company's web page isn't helpful either. When I consider just the marketing I'd have to assume it's a scam.

[CJay]

My opinion, if they have to resort to being beligerant and roll out the buzzwords to a bunch of engineers, is 'scam'

[cdoerfler]

3DFS Technology maintains power factor at unity, harmonics below 2% and automatically balances phases in power networks at all times no matter the load profile or energy consumption patterns.

[Cerebus]

3DFS Technology maintains power factor at unity, harmonics below 2% and automatically balances phases in power networks at all times no matter the load profile or energy consumption patterns.

Prove it!

And I don't mean another of your buzzword loaded paragraphs filled with insults at your interlocutors. I mean, either some solid, cogent, complete technical explanation of how your systems achieve your claims (i.e no more of this 'We do it by delivering microamps per microsecond in real time' tosh but a properly argued white paper or similar, you must have one somewhere) OR details of one or more reference customers who are prepared to publicly stand up and say it works.

If you cannot, or will not, offer one of those two then the only reasonable conclusion is that you're either deluded, or deliberately pedalling rubbish and we can safely ignore you, your extraordinary claims, and tell anyone who asks that they ought to avoid your products like the plague on the grounds that you can't or won't properly explain or defend them.

[cdoerfler]

https://youtu.be/Z6sfpJ5LBX0

[MrMobodies]

Maybe I am misunderstanding it but isn't that what regulators and other control circuitry is for?

To me it sounds related to what already happens with data transmission over mains like with powerline adaptors.

[cdoerfler]

It is a matter of speed, efficiency and impact on the network. The existing methods separate the data acquisition/conversion from the computing which is separate from the control. They rely on switches and relays for control which are not working anywhere near the speed of power flow, and they inevitably cause disruption in the power flow. Just look at the amount of power consumed to "correct" power. To correct 60kW of power requires about 60kW of power consumption. The goal is to deliver power as efficiently as possible, so the method can not be a 1:1 energy expense.


3DFS Technology is a completely integrated system with full feedback throughout every internal circuit. It uses high end computing and power electronics to convey power at the speed it is demanded perfectly synchronized. This is a radically different approach. It performs precision correction at speeds commensurate with power flow. The impact on the network is positive by preventing electrical energy loss no matter the input power or load consumption pattern, and this is all done at 98% efficiency, so 60kW is corrected with 70-120W of power.

It is a new form of power electronics.

[ebastler]

@cdoerfler: Chris, two suggestions for you:

(a) I think it is really time that you disclose your affiliation with 3DFS in your forum identity. Easy to do in the forum software, via either the "personal text" or the "signature" in your foum profile.

(b) Don't you have a technical person on the 3DFS team who could represent your company on this forum, and give some real technical explanations? Forgive me, but a bachelor in psychology does not cut it around here, especially as it shows in your posts.

[cdoerfler]

Every time this starts, there are 5 people that jump on me at once and it all goes to shit. Please ask specific questions. I will give specific answers. No need to litigate any previous posts. What technical details are requested?

[ebastler]

Thanks for adding the signature, Chris -- that's a step in the right direction.

[lokiiie]

How does the vectorq work and how it harmonize the system?

[StillTrying]

Lightning protection done in software, what could possibly go wrong.

https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1127560806793609216

[CJay]

Lightning protection done in software, what could possibly go wrong.

https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1127560806793609216

An IoT app, it queries the local weather service then uses bollockchain to leverage synergistic AI technologies and achieves a lightning prediction rate in the high teens percentile, sometimes even before it gets blown to pieces by a direct strike. 

[StillTrying]

An IoT app, it queries the local weather service then uses bollockchain

Don't be giving them any more ideas.

Yep, no lightning strike will be able to sneak passed that.
They'll probably win an award.

img from www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/digital-electricity/25/

[cdoerfler]

How does the vectorq work and how it harmonize the system?

The VectorQ Series is installed in parallel at the panel level. It oversamples the source and load side to provide the analytics that informs the power electronics which is correcting for reactive power, harmonics and phase imbalance in real time as the power flows, performing corrections every microsecond.

[cdoerfler]

Lightning protection done in software, what could possibly go wrong.

https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1127560806793609216

This is a power electronics system. It is hardware and software.

[cdoerfler]

An IoT app, it queries the local weather service then uses bollockchain

Don't be giving them any more ideas.

Yep, no lightning strike will be able to sneak passed that.
They'll probably win an award.

img from www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/digital-electricity/25/

Yes, that is correct, and we probably will.

[Cyberdragon]

How does the vectorq work and how it harmonize the system?

The VectorQ Series is installed in parallel at the panel level. It oversamples the source and load side to provide the analytics that informs the power electronics which is correcting for reactive power, harmonics and phase imbalance in real time as the power flows, performing corrections every microsecond.

More buzzwankery with no substance.

3DFS Technology maintains power factor at unity, harmonics below 2% and automatically balances phases in power networks at all times no matter the load profile or energy consumption patterns.

Prove it!

And I don't mean another of your buzzword loaded paragraphs filled with insults at your interlocutors. I mean, either some solid, cogent, complete technical explanation of how your systems achieve your claims (i.e no more of this 'We do it by delivering microamps per microsecond in real time' tosh but a properly argued white paper or similar, you must have one somewhere) OR details of one or more reference customers who are prepared to publicly stand up and say it works.

If you cannot, or will not, offer one of those two then the only reasonable conclusion is that you're either deluded, or deliberately pedalling rubbish and we can safely ignore you, your extraordinary claims, and tell anyone who asks that they ought to avoid your products like the plague on the grounds that you can't or won't properly explain or defend them.

And how the hell is that box gonna protect against surges? To do that it either has to clamp or have a disconnect in series. That thing is entirely wired in parrallel. So even if it clamps it would short the supply using any normal switching elements (IE ones that can be computer controlled). Also, reaction and switching times play a factor in surge arresting. MOVs, diodes, lightning arrestors exc all work extremely fast. If you throw a computer and switching elements in it, you are adding delayed reaction to the point it would already be too late and damage would occur. "oh look, a sur-" *BANG*  (not to mention the computer would have to protect it's own supply, but with what, traditional elements? ) The only award that would earn is the one for the person that can identify it's remains after a surge.

[CJay]

In all seriousness, I assume the wires entering the box on the upper right are the utility supply and the wires leaving upper left are to the premises.

So that leaves half a dozen or so wires from the magic box, where's the active element, is it in the box you built or is it in the main panel being controlled by your box?

[cdoerfler]

In all seriousness, I assume the wires entering the box on the upper right are the utility supply and the wires leaving upper left are to the premises.

So that leaves half a dozen or so wires from the magic box, where's the active element, is it in the box you built or is it in the main panel being controlled by your box?

Everything (computer and power electronics) are within the box. It is wired in parallel, CT on each phase, neutral and ground, plus 3 voltage connections via fuse. There is a transistor based injection/consumption system and the supplemental corrections are made as the power flows. The injection site is through the fuse.

[Gregg]

In all seriousness, I assume the wires entering the box on the upper right are the utility supply and the wires leaving upper left are to the premises.

So that leaves half a dozen or so wires from the magic box, where's the active element, is it in the box you built or is it in the main panel being controlled by your box?

For those not familiar with US wiring  , I have annotated the picture
I couldn't help myself questioning some of what is or isn't there. 
Another thing I wonder about is Cdofler stating that the device is connected via fuses when the picture clearly shows a 3 pole breaker; wouldn't a power engineer know the difference?

[cdoerfler]

In all seriousness, I assume the wires entering the box on the upper right are the utility supply and the wires leaving upper left are to the premises.

So that leaves half a dozen or so wires from the magic box, where's the active element, is it in the box you built or is it in the main panel being controlled by your box?

For those not familiar with US wiring  , I have annotated the picture
I couldn't help myself questioning some of what is or isn't there. 
Another thing I wonder about is Cdofler stating that the device is connected via fuses when the picture clearly shows a 3 pole breaker; wouldn't a power engineer know the difference?

The device uses an average of 70W of power to correct 60kW. The Flash Energy Storage Systems is oil cooled, water cooled and air cooled. The air cooling is not needed really unless there is a surge, at which point they activate to blow the heat off from the surge.

There is no need to dig on whether I am a power engineer, this forum has had many a sleuth determine that I am not. Yes, the 3 pole breaker is the connection, pardon my language.

[Cyberdragon]

There is no need to dig on whether I am a power engineer, this forum has had many a sleuth determine that I am not. Yes, the 3 pole breaker is the connection, pardon my language.

Right there you have just admitted you don't know jack yet you've been trying to defend this rubbish to real engineers.

It has every type of cooling huh? First of all, water cooling requires a radiator which usually requires fans to cool it unless it's significantly large (which wouldn't leave much room). Oil cooled? So it's filled with mineral oil? Also, even if the fans only come on for a a surge arrest that seems like an an aweful lot of cooling for something that consumes 70W ( less than the human body at about 100W when resting).

Also we've grilled to death already how it's impossible to use tiny amounts of power to correct large amounts, that's basic thermodynamics.

Backfeeding breakers is also iffy, only certain types allow it. Drawing power from them and backfeeding them is even more iffy. Due to the above, the backfed power, or clamping a surge might trip the breaker. You have succeeded in making a self defeating device that will shut off it's own connection when it tries to surge protect.

[cdoerfler]

There is no need to dig on whether I am a power engineer, this forum has had many a sleuth determine that I am not. Yes, the 3 pole breaker is the connection, pardon my language.

Right there you have just admitted you don't know jack yet you've been trying to defend this rubbish to real engineers.

It has every type of cooling huh? First of all, water cooling requires a radiator which usually requires fans to cool it unless it's significantly large (which wouldn't leave much room). Oil cooled? So it's filled with mineral oil? Also, even if the fans only come on for a a surge arrest that seems like an an aweful lot of cooling for something that consumes 70W ( less than the human body at about 100W when resting).

Also we've grilled to death already how it's impossible to use tiny amounts of power to correct large amounts, that's basic thermodynamics.

Backfeeding breakers is also iffy, only certain types allow it. Drawing power from them and backfeeding them is even more iffy. Due to the above, the backfed power, or clamping a surge might trip the breaker. You have succeeded in making a self defeating device that will shut off it's own connection when it tries to surge protect.

I am explaining how it works. These are facts. You know nothing about this tech. Literally nothing, not to mention you are wrong with everything you say.

How about you just pipe down and let those interested in learning more ask questions and maybe, just maybe you will learn something.