Poll

3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?

Very useful power efficiency control products.
2 (3%)
Software Defined Electricity is the future!
1 (1.5%)
Nothing new, all been done before.
4 (6.1%)
Not sure / don't know.
5 (7.6%)
Probably mostly just snake oil / scam.
54 (81.8%)

Total Members Voted: 60

Author Topic: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?  (Read 12357 times)

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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #225 on: August 16, 2019, 12:07:44 am »
The effective number of jealousy bits.
 ;D
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #226 on: August 16, 2019, 12:14:09 am »
Selling BS to gullible people (aka a scam) is not something to boast.

He knows that very well, just can't admit in public for obvious reasons.

Quote
When your crap fails to surge protect properly because it is snake oil it could cause tremendous damage leading to a hefty lawsuit. ;D

Rest assured - actual documentation and purchase contract of "product" (if any) most likely is bullet-proof from legal point of view. BTW product could be some rebranded OEM igbt phase balancer with self-made digital electricity nanosecond-level woo-woo software

Disclamer: This product is not gauranteed to stop all surges, save any money, or prevent all electrical disturbance. Quantum energy super linear graphine batteries not included. Products sold seperately. This print may require an optical magnification device to read.

*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #227 on: August 16, 2019, 12:19:51 am »
Err the bit I posted where you asked how a solar inverter's output voltage and current can be out of phase. That bit.

3DFS claim that power quality is very bad at generation many times, I haven't found a solar inverter one yet but this one hints at inverters being less than 60% efficient unless fixed.
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1118687111237066752

and this:
"On the supply side, take a typical coal plant, which if outfitted with SDE will output almost double the energy while burning the same amount of coal. Same with natural gas, nuclear etc. because they are all steam."

"For renewables and energy storage, inverters replaced by SDE enabled inverters will result in anywhere from 20-40% more output."
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1138117446555095041

"It is established science that the power factor, harmonics and phase balancing are the worst at generation."
https://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12204964&cid=56776034

Quote
I do realise that the VectorQ is complete bullshit

I think it really is useful for a high power 3ph user with constantly changing balance and PF loads, but not much else.

I try to avoid claims more than about 3 months old because even 3DFS are allowed to change their mind, but I've just had a look at one of their white papers to see how they explain away it causing Asynchronous Motors to Operate Synchronously, - another one of my favorites!

This white paper reviews how Software-Defined Electricity delivers digitally perfect power to every load in a power network at all times, preventing any fluctuation including transients from affecting load performance

It's a shunt voltage regulator on a 3ph supply with complete surge protection. :)

VI. Expected Results from Software-Defined Electricity™
    Load Performance and Work Output Improvement
    Example 1: Reduced Data Packet Loss in Transmission
    Example 2: Reduction of Power Supply Temperature
    Example 3: Asynchronous Motors Operate Synchronously
    Example 4: Improving Audio Recordings/Live Performances
    Example 5: RF Signal Propagation Improvement
    Example 6: Increase the Detectable Distance of RADAR
    Generator Performance and Output Improvements
    UPS, Battery Performance and Output Improvements
    Power Network Stability
    Automatic Impedance Matching
    Maintaining Separation of Power Network from Data Network
    Sustainable Surge Protection
    Stacked Layers of Energy Savings
    1st Layer - Direct Savings from Loss Prevention
    2nd - Reduced Environmental Conditioning
    3rd - Optimized Work Output Per Period of Time
    4th - Expert System in the Power Network
    Utility Penalty Reduction/Elimination
    Demand Charges
    Power Quality Related Utility Charges
    New Layer of Data
    Error Free Digital Data
    Non-Intrusive Load Monitoring
    Seamless Platform Integration Via API
    Predictive Analytics
https://3dfs.com/download/financial-benefits-of-protecting-power-networks-with-software-defined-electricity

CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #228 on: August 16, 2019, 12:59:54 am »
Haven't you already suggested that multiple times before?

I have explained many times what it is and its function. There is simply too much intelligence in this forum to cram any more knowledge in. It's like that Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns has every disease.
-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #229 on: August 16, 2019, 01:24:23 am »
Haven't you already suggested that multiple times before?

No, I think it's in a link on the other thread on here but I'm not going to search.

You claim the LLNL's AC power measurement is inaccurate because it's measured over a 15 min. time interval.
What AC power measurement time period would you recommend to give a more accurate result?
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline james_s

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #230 on: August 16, 2019, 06:37:32 am »
Haven't these threads run their course by now? Can we just lock the threads and ban this goober as is typically done with people pushing pseudoscience and other scams?
 
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Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #231 on: August 16, 2019, 11:44:02 am »
When a data point is collected in 15 minute increments, how does one know what happens between those 15 minute increments? This is not hard to comprehend.

Further, what the fuck does a data point tell you? You need multiple data points from the exact same moment in time. For example, a voltage data point at time X does not help you if the current data point is at point Y. This is the problem.

3DFS Technology acquires not only all the current and voltage data points at the precise same time, but the calculations and analytics are also done at the precise same time, resulting is error free analytics and vector data on electricity every 6 nanoseconds.

That is the measurement of accuracy. Error free electricity analytics every 6ns.

It is okay that you cannot comprehend how we do this, that is why we are the innovators and you are learning about it on a forum.
-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 

Offline madires

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #232 on: August 16, 2019, 03:57:49 pm »
Another round of merry-go-round. :-//
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #233 on: August 16, 2019, 04:17:36 pm »
Another round of merry-go-round. :-//

Jump to earlier in the thread where we explained that "error free" is impossible and those sample rates are utterly rediculous. :palm:

A loony never learns, it's been scientifically proven now. Maybe he needs a padded, soundproof room with the walls covered in real science to eventually reform him. ::)
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
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Online dunkemhigh

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #234 on: August 16, 2019, 06:34:48 pm »
Quote
You claim the LLNL's AC power measurement is inaccurate because it's measured over a 15 min. time interval.

PMFJI... I think I see the communication problem here.

The LLNL's measurement has to be an average and they presumably choose 15 min as a reasonable timescale for their purposes (which is to know the average). That's perfectly reasonable and appropriate.

3DFS's requirements are very different in that they need to know what the instantaneous value is in order to correct it. Thus knowing that it needed to be adjusted 15 mins ago is pointless. That's also reasonable and appropriate (which is not saying anything about what it actually does or may be possible, etc).

A way of looking at it is, as ever, using a car analogy: for fuel consumption you want an average over a journey or period of time (LLNL) but for controlling the injectors you need instantaneous numbers (3DFS).

So ISTM the two of you are batting away assuming that the opponent is talking the same thing, but you're each actually on different playing fields.
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #235 on: August 17, 2019, 02:45:39 pm »
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 05:45:21 pm by cdoerfler »
-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #236 on: August 19, 2019, 11:37:34 am »
We are receiving some incredible images from our clients.  It is like the electricity has been software-defined and performs precisely. 

What gives?  :scared: :-//  :popcorn:










-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #237 on: August 19, 2019, 11:52:57 am »
We are receiving some incredible images from our client(s).

LOL
They're done by 3DFS. Only 3DFS would use a pixel aliasing effect on current wave forms as proof of "How phase balancing protects assets and infrastructure." :)

Quote
It is like the electricity has been software-defined and performs precisely.

The VectorQ2 balances and PF corrects the incoming supply's current, the 'electricity' at the loads doesn't change.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 12:07:05 pm by StillTrying »
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 
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Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #238 on: August 19, 2019, 12:10:13 pm »
That is correct. The amount of power demanded by the load does not change. It is the additional waste that is prevented from being drawn.

Equally drawing the current from the upstream transformer and perfectly redistributing on the appropriate phase based on demand is what is occurring here. This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current.

You are starting to get it!   :-+
-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #239 on: August 19, 2019, 12:38:19 pm »
You are starting to get it!   :-+

Nice try, but you're only saying what I've been saying for ages. :-+

"The amount of power demanded by the load does not change."

The voltage, current, and PF of the loads doesn't change, which means PSUs don't run cooler, and asynchronous motors certainly don't suddenly become synchronous motors.

"This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current."

Only on the supply side of the VectorQ2. :)
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #240 on: August 19, 2019, 12:39:26 pm »


How exactly?? How does phase current redistribution affect neutral to ground current imbalances??
If there is a small but finite / significant impedance between the neutral and ground on the load side, how does one correct the neutral to ground imbalance??


Or are you suggesting your magic device can override laws of physics and electronics and magically null the neutral to ground current??


Quote from: cdoerfler on Today at 10:10:13 pm
That is correct. The amount of power demanded by the load does not change. It is the additional waste that is prevented from being drawn.

Equally drawing the current from the upstream transformer and perfectly redistributing on the appropriate phase based on demand is what is occurring here. This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current.

You are starting to get it!   :-+

If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #241 on: August 19, 2019, 01:09:29 pm »
How exactly?? How does phase current redistribution affect neutral to ground current imbalances??

There's a diagram here of course, I've already asked why E and N are connected at one of the loads.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/3dfss-vectorq-digital-electricity-technology/msg2465997/#msg2465997
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #242 on: August 19, 2019, 01:47:16 pm »
That is the explanation for current balancing in the three phases.. I get that.


cdoerfler has mentioned "This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current".


Now, I could be mistaken in my understanding. I assumed he meant zeroing of any neutral-to-earth current.
Unless of course, he meant zeroing any stray "phase to neutral / ground / earth" current. 



If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Online ogden

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #243 on: August 19, 2019, 01:59:10 pm »
cdoerfler has mentioned "This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current".

Now, I could be mistaken in my understanding. I assumed he meant zeroing of any neutral-to-earth current.

Kind of. "Neutral current" is correct term in case of any consumer - big or small. Mentioning ground/earth may lead to frustration because earth-related currents usually associates with faults, not phase imbalance.
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #244 on: August 19, 2019, 03:21:56 pm »


Hence my confusion, The neutral current is simply the sum of the individual phase currents. (in a perfect system)
We will usually have some leakage current and some neutral to earth potential, which are usually associated with a fault.


Now, any amount of mathematics and shunt correction will not remove these "faults". Again, if my understanding is flawed or imcomplete, I stand to be corrected.


Quote from: ogden on Yesterday at 11:59:10 pm


>Quote from: krish2487 on Yesterday at 11:47:16 pm
cdoerfler has mentioned "This results in a zeroing of ground and neutral current".

Now, I could be mistaken in my understanding. I assumed he meant zeroing of any neutral-to-earth current.



Kind of. "Neutral current" is correct term in case of any consumer - big or small. Mentioning ground/earth may lead to frustration because earth-related currents usually associates with faults, not phase imbalance.


If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Online ogden

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #245 on: August 19, 2019, 03:55:16 pm »
Hence my confusion, The neutral current is simply the sum of the individual phase currents. (in a perfect system)
We will usually have some leakage current and some neutral to earth potential, which are usually associated with a fault.

Three phase system is very clever in a sense that "power delivered" versus "wires used" ratio is very good. Perfectly balanced three-phase system can live without neutral wire at all. That's why high voltage power grid lines have only three fat conductors, fourth conductor on top acts more like lightning rod rather than neutral wire. Three phase motor do not need neutral wire to operate - think about it. Phase imbalance creates neutral current that has nothing to do with neutral to earth potential which would be earthing fault.
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #246 on: August 19, 2019, 05:31:47 pm »
Sorry, conflating the two. Zeroing the neutral current.

Ground current is a separate issue.
-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 
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Offline SparkyFX

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #247 on: September 14, 2019, 12:50:22 am »
That is correct. The amount of power demanded by the load does not change. It is the additional waste that is prevented from being drawn.
Nope, the power dissipated over the neutral wire is the power not dissipated on the phase wires, should they have been perfectly balanced. There are not much losses left over to be concerned about.
Support your local planet.
 
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Offline cdoerfler

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #248 on: September 16, 2019, 01:47:36 pm »
That is correct. The amount of power demanded by the load does not change. It is the additional waste that is prevented from being drawn.
Nope, the power dissipated over the neutral wire is the power not dissipated on the phase wires, should they have been perfectly balanced. There are not much losses left over to be concerned about.

Precisely. When the perfect amount of power is delivered to every single load simultaneously, there are minimal losses. We agree on this.
-Cofounder of 3DFS Software-Defined Electricity & SAM Controllers
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: 3DFS's VectorQ Digital Electricity Technology ?
« Reply #249 on: September 20, 2019, 12:35:08 pm »
Struggling to keep up with all the requests for information on their SDE technology, 3DFS show their 3 phase power analyzer, which is not all that portable. :horse:
https://twitter.com/doerfler/status/1174709460478103553
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 


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