"A British Audiophile" compares audio interconnects

[mansaxel]

He should buy some carpet. That is more likely to improve the sound 

I suggested that and got a sensible response. Am impressed.

I just looked and couldn't see that, is it still there?

Yup, at least when I check from a non-logged-in browser.

Måns Nilsson
för 22 timmar sedan
Get a bloody rug in. It will do 3 orders of magnitude more difference than the snake oil you're peddling.

Hifi Knob.
för 22 timmar sedan
Hahahahaha. My wife won’t let me.

Obviously his wife is running the hifi store from where you can buy the things he's reviewing 

[MrMobodies]

Yup, at least when I check from a non-logged-in browser.

If the bots didn't hide it because of the word "bloody" maybe he hid it when he got all embarrassed.

Obviously his wife is running the hifi store from where you can buy the things he's reviewing 

According to him she couldn't even pick up the right remote without his help:

08:58 I can barely get her to pick up the right remote control for the tv.

Maybe he is just trying to gain sympathy like below in his story telling ventures techniques.

douxreveur131 1 week ago
Hello. First of all, I want to thank your wife for all the time spent for these tests. It's really brave of her and she must have found it all very boring !
On the subject of audio cables, it's always good to remember that it's just a hobby and that no matter how we feel about it, it's not that bad
You can also get high quality cables without spending a lot of money with a little soldering and patience.
The NEOTECH brand offers the best quality UP-OCC copper at very reasonable prices. It's up to you to choose the RCA plugs of your choice

brown-eyed man 2 days ago
Ah Tarun you are a brave man indeed, evaluating cables.
As always, I appreciate your approach to reviewing. You tell us what you hear, rather than summarizing. And since we know what your reference system is, we have a way to correlate your descriptions to a know reference

Skip 6 days ago
Tough topic - nice job keeping it "corralled" - brave but of you, but obviously true to say that all of those cables sound different. And sure, that doesn't mean that one is necessarily better than another, they just sound different. But hey, for whatever reason, some that don't buy into that fact are very out spoken about it - like I couldn't care less what a person is running for cable, but, admit that I'm running hi end, high priced stuff, well, as we all know, ya won't have to wait very long for the fireworks to emerge. Thanks for posting.

Jon R 1 week ago
Yet to watch but brave man 😁

Mrhifitunes 1 week ago (edited)
Wow..brave to tackle cables... I agree 100% with your view...many things we still don't understand...it would be good if we did..but also it's nice not too and have some "magic" going on.  Compare it with adults and kids imagination.  My favourite cable is Kimber pjb.  Sounds great and great specs too (53ohm/km low cap and induc)Didnt find anything better price / quantity (same pricerange as those pro cables)

John 1 week ago
Very brave taking on cables Tarun.  You may be interested in my own findings with some of these cables in my own highly resolving active ATC  system and a previous passive system.   Having read on countless forums that a decent quality shielded cable is all you need, I purchased some Mogami interconnects and I also have Van den Hul the 1st and second and Van Damme and Belden knocking around.  In the passive system I too found Mogami bright and lean - very fatiguing after 30mins listening.  Van den Hul can really help in a bright system (its nickname is Van den dull) but softens off edges too much for me.   Van damme and Belden were considered OK but nothing special.  In the passive system I tried some used Transparent Audio reference cables and I had to buy them as they were in a nother league, so revealing yet so refined.  Placebo effect ?  Who knows, all I can say is they did it for me. When I changed to the active ATC's  I tried some long interconnects to the speakers, some Van den Hul the 2nd and some Van Damme microphone cable (that ATC themselves recommended)   which was very cheap. ATC are cable sceptics interestingly.  I still found the VDH dull but every other cable cheap or expensive sounded much the same. I have come away with the feeling that balanced cables are far less critical than single ended and they all sound much the same.  I now use balanced Van Damme shielded microphone cable and I am totally happy.
I have also tried lots of exotic mains cables and I find Belkin is as good as anything.

[/quote]

Isn't Dave Jones, PhotonicInduction, BigClive, and many like them brave? They tackle quite a lot of things most of the time.

Oh I forgot... He is story telling.

This seems to talk some sense:

U2021 1 week ago
Put a spectrum analyser on the end of each cable. This will show attenuation and loss together with bandwidth.
No point doing it by ear as you will not hear any difference.
It also depends on the hearing of the user.
A lot is snake oil.

[bd139]

He should buy some carpet. That is more likely to improve the sound 

I suggested that and got a sensible response. Am impressed.

Sounds like he needs to replace that component of his life 

[midix]

I imagine he must have his head screwed in at the same exact position for every test, to avoid hearing "cable differences" that are actually being caused by minor position differences of his head relative to his speakers.

[bd139]

It’s simpler than that as that assumes immaculate perception. Some days you listen to a track and it sounds great. Some days it sounds like some rats fighting in a bin. On the same reproduction device that is.

However stuff sounds pretty good after a bottle of wine. Even the wine tastes good after that much. And it’s only £5na go. Much cheaper to fix the perception than interconnects.

[floobydust]

AES Ten years of A/B/X Testing
"Experience from many years of double-blind listening tests of audio equipment is summarized. The results are generally consistent with threshold estimates from psychoacoustic literature, that is, listeners often fail to prove they can hear a difference after non-controlled listening suggested that there was one. However, the fantasy of audible differences continues despite the fact of audibility thresholds."

I've found there is real science with loudspeaker cables and differences, affecting power amplifier sonics. Seen with a scope or spectrum analyzer.
But it's going down a rabbit hole of electronics subtleties and prob. best discussed in another thread, psycho-electronics aside lol.

[xrunner]

He responded to me -

"This was a subjective listening review. I am sure there are other channels that can provide you the objective measurements you seek. There is a distinct lack of proper scientific double trials in this area. Unfortunately, a double blind test done but one person does not make it scientifically valid due to the sample size being one. There was a single blind test done in my cable evaluation (a double blind test would require switching mechanisms that do not degrade sound quality and a second person cable to set it up).

I switched the cables about half a dozen time for my wife to listen and made sure I had no interaction with her. Each time she picked out the difference between the cables and surprisingly quickly. Others You-tubers have done similar investigations where some have picked out differences and others have not. My advice, try for yourself 😊"

[MrMobodies]

Got this reply, pointing out that the title was mistated in some way at the same time calling us whiney babies and that we're demeaning? them and got to to call an waaambulance.

Jon Beck 14 hours ago @Mr Mobodies  I checked out the EEVBLOG forum with the post about this video review (mis-stated as a speaker cable comparison).  I was distracted by the demeanor of that forum and went on my way.  What a bunch of whiney babies there! Somebody should call the waaambulance for that lot.

It looks me me like Tarun loves his audio cables and stuff as to why he replies to many of the commenters that identify with him.

Maybe one day he'll get some testing gear in place for his blind tests to have something to back it up with and put an end to the opinionated snake oil mysteries.

[bd139]

I bet he’s “sick of experts” too 

Hear that said a lot by morons.

[PlainName]

Quite a few morons cherry pick partial quotes out of context too.

[mc172]

Got this reply, pointing out that the title was mistated in some way

Well, yeah, the title is incorrect. They're not speaker cables. I pointed this out on the first page but everyone keeps banging on about speaker cables.

[madires]

Reading is a lost art.

[MrMobodies]

Buyers of these cables can also "whine" too about "it not sounding right" and needs burning in and so on.

I was told by someone about "upsetting the apple tree" for them.

Quite a few morons cherry pick partial quotes out of context too.

I think I might be guilty of that one on a number of occasions as I frequently misinterpret things.

[EEVblog]

Yes, I know. The whole audiophool thing has been done to death, but I still can't help but shake my head at these people who can trick themselves into hearing differences that don't exist.

If you pay $800 for a cable you WILL hear the difference!

[langwadt]

Yes, I know. The whole audiophool thing has been done to death, but I still can't help but shake my head at these people who can trick themselves into hearing differences that don't exist.

If you pay $800 for a cable you WILL hear the difference!

you either hear it or admit to yourself that you're an idiot, so ...

[MrMobodies]

If you pay $800 for a cable you WILL hear the difference!

He says his wife noticed the differences:

08:25 I just basically got her to listen to that track for 15-20 minutes and then I switched the cables sometimes I'd pretend to
switch the cables and I didn't actually switch them I made sure that I wasn't in eye shot and I just asked her to
tell me which cable she preferred and whether she noticed a change every time without fail she noticed a change and
she picked out the cable out the two that she preferred so take from that what you like.

One commenter mentioned that it could be about a wife test thing:

Prairie Dawg 15 hours ago
@Mr Mobodies  The "Wife test" somehow reminds me of a program I saw about a dog which could do maths, tapping its paw to give the answer to a verbal question.  In short, it could answer whatever the owner could - when she got it wrong the dog did. It was picking up some subtle visual clue when the nth tap matched the answer, when the owner was shielded from sight the dog's answers pretty random. So - TL;DR wife picking up some (maybe subcounscious) cogniive bias

[Halcyon]

Title fixed.

[magic]

If you pay $800 for a cable you WILL hear the difference!

And if you don't then you will not.
Sounds like some guys in here are missing out

[Halcyon]

I have to laugh, one of my mates is an audiophool. Nice guy, but I think he believed everything the sales guy told him. Has all the gold plated, woo woo cables etc... Claims he has a golden ear but was unable to hear that his record player turns a little too fast. I was listening to a song I had heard many. many times and told him it's slightly too fast. He didn't believe me.

Anyway, what I'd love to know from people smarter than I am is this... He streams all his music to his overpriced premium sound system via a Bluetooth DAC. Does Bluetooth recompress audio and result in degradation of the original source material?
I mean it sounds perfectly fine. I have a Bowers and Wilkins audio system in my car which sounds phenomenal but I still stream to it using Bluetooth. I'd just be curious to know if there is any real perceivable difference in audio quality versus playing music directly from a phone via the audio output.

[mansaxel]

One commenter mentioned that it could be about a wife test thing:

Prairie Dawg 15 hours ago
@Mr Mobodies  The "Wife test" somehow reminds me of a program I saw about a dog which could do maths, tapping its paw to give the answer to a verbal question.  In short, it could answer whatever the owner could - when she got it wrong the dog did. It was picking up some subtle visual clue when the nth tap matched the answer, when the owner was shielded from sight the dog's answers pretty random. So - TL;DR wife picking up some (maybe subcounscious) cogniive bias

There is a classic case demonstrating this, illustrating the absolute requirement for double-blind testing; "der Kluge Hans".

[borjam]

I have to laugh, one of my mates is an audiophool. Nice guy, but I think he believed everything the sales guy told him. Has all the gold plated, woo woo cables etc... Claims he has a golden ear but was unable to hear that his record player turns a little too fast. I was listening to a song I had heard many. many times and told him it's slightly too fast. He didn't believe me.

That one is tricky. Few people are able to detect absolute frequencies.

Anyway, what I'd love to know from people smarter than I am is this... He streams all his music to his overpriced premium sound system via a Bluetooth DAC. Does Bluetooth recompress audio and result in degradation of the original source material?
I mean it sounds perfectly fine. I have a Bowers and Wilkins audio system in my car which sounds phenomenal but I still stream to it using Bluetooth. I'd just be curious to know if there is any real perceivable difference in audio quality versus playing music directly from a phone via the audio output.

It depends. There are lossy and lossless compression algorithms for Bluetooth audio.

https://www.soundguys.com/understanding-bluetooth-codecs-15352/

So, it's a bit complicated. Not only your equipment must support it, it must be also properly supported without some subtle software bug breaking codec selection.

[mansaxel]

I have to laugh, one of my mates is an audiophool. Nice guy, but I think he believed everything the sales guy told him. Has all the gold plated, woo woo cables etc... Claims he has a golden ear but was unable to hear that his record player turns a little too fast. I was listening to a song I had heard many. many times and told him it's slightly too fast. He didn't believe me.

Anyway, what I'd love to know from people smarter than I am is this... He streams all his music to his overpriced premium sound system via a Bluetooth DAC. Does Bluetooth recompress audio and result in degradation of the original source material?
I mean it sounds perfectly fine. I have a Bowers and Wilkins audio system in my car which sounds phenomenal but I still stream to it using Bluetooth. I'd just be curious to know if there is any real perceivable difference in audio quality versus playing music directly from a phone via the audio output.

There are two things that could be a problem with Bluetooth (or any digital transfer system);

• Latency
• Bit errors.
  

The former is, generally, not a problem in unidirectional audio transfer, even if it's "live" -- we cope pretty well with the multiple second delay in terrestrial TV. (until the radio transmission of same sports event is 2 seconds earlier...) Basically we have no reference as to "when" and then we have to accept what's coming at us as "now", FSVO. For prerecorded media, it's of course mostly irrelevant.

The latter is of course more complicated; it depends on EMI levels, distance (mostly as distance tends to introduce more line-of-sight challenges), physical barriers to radio waves et c. 

Actually, I lied. There is a third thing, and that it is that Bluetooth is vertically integrated. There are only those applications in the various OSI equivalent layers as the standards owner of Bluetooth saw fit to include.  This means that there's a scant few audio codecs specified for Bluetooth audio, and given a decent RF link, it's mostly about comparing codecs and their performance. You don't get 2mbit/s AES3 bit-clean 24bit/48KHz, no matter how hard you try.

If your BT link is APT-X compatible in both ends (there's a negotiation, so you might end up lower), though, it's practically transparent. I've been on the fringes of some serious testing of this at a former employer, and the data supports APT-X at 576kbit/s as pretty wide open.  The earlier SBC standard might not be as transparent.  There are a few other newer standards that look to be promising, but IMNSHO the APT-X is your best bet.

Also you need to think about the encode-decode chain in entirety. Since the BT link, as observed above, requires recoding, you have at minimum a storage format -> BT recode -> BT decode chain to factor in. If you listen to streaming radio, the best case probably is more like:

Linear sound file or live transmission (both at 48KHz 24-bit) goes into processing for streaming and then to the live stream encoder, coming out as AAC 192kbit (highest encoding standard at previous employer), which is received by your phone, recoded to a Bluetooth transport format, sent over the BT link, and then unpacked and played back.
If it's a "normal" show, it's more like a 384kbit MPEG2 file played back; the L24 storage option is reserved for classical music.

Phew!

The mere thought that the directional arrows on your Ethernet cable would need to be correctly oriented in this is criminally insane.

[borjam]

I wonder what audiophools would think about professional digital audio streaming over IP, for example Dante.

It needs a properly configured network but it works like a charm. Now tell a live sound engineer to buy a 50 metre long
"special Ethernet cable" for his digital snake from Audioquest 

But of course audiophile grade routers do exist!

[madires]

When our audiophools upgrade to optical network cables they will need directional multimode fiber.

[MazeFrame]

Anyway, what I'd love to know from people smarter than I am is this... He streams all his music to his overpriced premium sound system via a Bluetooth DAC. Does Bluetooth recompress audio and result in degradation of the original source material?

Depends on the BT standard and Codec used.
Some Codecs do not compress, they just use the available bit-rate and drop whatever would push past the limit.
Wireless streaming is always lossy.

Important distinction:
Streaming - Information is NOT stored permanently on the receiving device
Transfer - Information IS permanently stored on the receiving device