Author Topic: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students  (Read 2588 times)

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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 11:30:30 pm »
They should try that on quiet students who barely talk or say anything.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 11:44:13 pm »
Jaw drop.
That is the most stupid thing i've seen in a while.
What a waste of money.


Reducing mass shootings would be much better achieved by getting all the students/teachers to fill out an anonymous survey to identify all the bullies at each school.
Then permanently isolate the top 5%. So they can't do any more physical/emotional damage to others.
A large number of mass shootings are just people who are fed up with being harassed or made fun of for years

The main issue that needs to be solved is that...
If someone is being bullied and they complain about it often nothing is done other than a word to the bully to 'stop it or else'.
It invariably just makes the bully more angry and makes the problem worse, which is why people don't report it.

If you're being bullied get a small spy camera on you somehow and catch him/her/them doing it, get a nice collection of say 20 videos and once you have that go see the principal with your evidence.
There's nothing like solid proof of repeated bulling, it will get them expelled instantly.
Don't surrender all the footage to the school, keep a copy, say you will take the videos to the media if he doesn't fix this permanently.
School reputation is important to the principal.


« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 12:00:48 am by Psi »
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Online Johnny10

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2019, 11:46:06 pm »
Teachers and administrators should pull their ass out of their smartphones and get to know the students! WTF

Wake up people! Be aware of the living breathing humans in your surroundings.

F___ the AI ideas.
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Offline ptricks

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 12:02:59 am »
I'm betting the companies sales agreement also has a 'if we fail to detect aggression, oops sorry, and isn't something better than nothing "  line in it somewhere.
 

Offline GregDunn

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 01:00:04 am »
Teachers and administrators should pull their ass out of their smartphones and get to know the students! WTF

Wake up people! Be aware of the living breathing humans in your surroundings.

F___ the AI ideas.

US teachers are barely paid enough to care, let alone to do all the extra work that's required of them which doesn't have anything to do with the students.  It's a miracle anything gets done in schools at all - it's down to the ones who go above and beyond despite the active interference of the school admins and boards.

If you want a solution, start paying the teachers commensurate with their responsibility and let them do their jobs.
 
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Offline Whales

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 04:01:50 am »
Fundamentally this is a reactionary measure.  Prevention is much better than reaction.

Seeing any such product installed is a red flag.

Online EEVblog

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2019, 05:56:59 am »
Jaw drop.
That is the most stupid thing i've seen in a while.
What a waste of money.

If you make the money available, they will come.
Milk that security cash cow!
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 06:10:06 am »
They should try that on quiet students who barely talk or say anything.

You mean the "I'm shocked it was him, he was always so quiet" types   :palm:
 
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Offline SparkyFX

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2019, 06:33:59 am »
There's nothing like solid proof of repeated bulling, it will get them expelled instantly.
There have even been cases in which the bullies themselves filmed what they were doing (outright violence) and circulated this on social media.

The thing against filming is that out of context recordings become questionable evidence, because that implies some premeditation on side of the recording person. I won´t argue about the probabilities and that with some people offenses are just a question of time. OTOH you don´t need outright violence or yelling, when actually years of constant threatening, faking threats and fear is the norm. These don´t leave bruises or evidence, which probably makes people snap over time and actually backfire when they are unable to cope with it.

And that´s kind of the same problem with these detectors... they tell you where it is loud - which in a school does not really tell you much.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 06:41:34 am by SparkyFX »
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Offline magic

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2019, 07:47:32 am »
They should try that on quiet students who barely talk or say anything.
You mean the "I'm shocked it was him, he was always so quiet" types   :palm:
This exactly. You better ask not for bullies but for nerds who don't talk to anyone and then flip a coin to guess if they are the kind that build bombs or collect vintages scopes in their basement ;)
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2019, 09:29:12 am »
Fundamentally this is a reactionary measure.  Prevention is much better than reaction.

I believe you mean a "reactive" measure?
I don't think it qualifies as "reactionary".
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2019, 11:19:49 am »
They should try that on quiet students who barely talk or say anything.
You mean the "I'm shocked it was him, he was always so quiet" types   :palm:
This exactly. You better ask not for bullies but for nerds who don't talk to anyone and then flip a coin to guess if they are the kind that build bombs or collect vintages scopes in their basement ;)

Put them all on a watch list and monitor their interwebs to see if they watch the EEVblog or FPSRussia.
Heck, tie it into the goolag/facebook engine and they'll already have that data at their fingertips.
 

Offline helius

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2019, 11:35:37 am »
Is this the same type of "aggression detector" that was developed by the Wikimedia Foundation?
 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2019, 06:03:45 pm »
Think of how they can interpret the captured recordings and how they'd act or overreact like what happened when they had a 14 year old arrested for bringing in a home made clock.

It reminds a bit of this video eevBLAB #14 - 14yo Hobbyist Arrested For Bringing DIY Clock To School.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2019, 07:30:35 pm »
Is this the same type of "aggression detector" that was developed by the Wikimedia Foundation?

More like defeloped by highschoolers as a science fair  project, till some nutters in suits came in and offered a hansom amount. ;D ::)

Think of how they can interpret the captured recordings and how they'd act or overreact like what happened when they had a 14 year old arrested for bringing in a home made clock.

It reminds a bit of this video eevBLAB #14 - 14yo Hobbyist Arrested For Bringing DIY Clock To School.

Imagine this shit in a mental hospital.

"We got an alert, we're gonna have to lock you up."
"No! I swear I wasn't screaming at nothing, I just sneezed!"
"The machine said you were, and machines can't lie."
"No...NO...NNNOOOOOO!"
 ::)
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
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Online ogden

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2019, 08:10:51 pm »
That is the most stupid thing i've seen in a while.
What a waste of money.

It is stupid to think that way. Those audio security products are designed to *complement* video surveillance systems. Security guard can monitor 9 or more video feeds, yet he can listen only to single audio source. This is just better & smarter "glass break detector" which brings attention of the guard to one particular video feed.

Fact that schools are looking after kids using CCTV systems instead of teachers is completely another story. It does not make AI-enabled audio detectors stupid.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 08:19:19 pm by ogden »
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2019, 08:37:14 pm »
There is exactly one way to tell the ones at risk from the harmless ones, and that is to talk to them and get to know them.  Everything else will fail, due to the complexity of human-human interaction.

If you disagree, consider Israeli airports: their approach to security, and their track record.  Beats the most high-tech airports anywhere else in the world, and they rely more on humans than technology.
 
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Online ogden

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2019, 08:42:23 pm »
If you disagree, consider Israeli airports: their approach to security, and their track record.  Beats the most high-tech airports anywhere else in the world, and they rely more on humans than technology.

Right.  :-DD

Quote
Israel’s Ben-Gurion Int. Airport in Tel Aviv is the first in the world to begin using a new system that allows passengers to perform security checks by themselves. When passengers register they’re given a smart card with all their security information encrypted. The system is meant to decrease the amount of time passengers spend in security lines. The pilot program is being tested on El Al frequent flier members who sign-up in advance. Kiosks with Face (Cognitec) and Fingerprint (Innovatrics) recognition systems.

https://www.innovatrics.com/references/airport-security-checks-israel/
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2019, 09:30:03 pm »
 :palm:

They found out there is no reason to spend efforts to identify/authenticate people.  People are happy to do it voluntarily themselves, especially if it saves them time.

That has nothing to do with threat detection.  That is still done by well-trained humans.

 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2019, 10:06:38 pm »
Here's a joke: It'll be interesting to see how they will perform in the military.
 

Offline Psi

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2019, 01:38:55 am »
That is the most stupid thing i've seen in a while.
What a waste of money.

It is stupid to think that way. Those audio security products are designed to *complement* video surveillance systems. Security guard can monitor 9 or more video feeds, yet he can listen only to single audio source. This is just better & smarter "glass break detector" which brings attention of the guard to one particular video feed.

Except that shootings are almost always done by smarter than typical people, and anyone with half a brain would know not to talking about anything near the system.
And as EEVBlog pointed out, it's often the ones who dont talk much.

I'm not saying this system is 100% pointless, maybe it will get lucky and prevent a shooting which is good.
I just think the money would have a more positive impact if spent elsewhere.

Money is better spent solving the cause of what pushes kids 'over the edge' than it is spent trying to stop them shooting.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 01:47:57 am by Psi »
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Offline james_s

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2019, 02:00:13 am »
I've been curious as to the reasons why school shootings have become relatively much more common than they used to be. Bullying was certainly present when I was in school, and in the USA at least people had far easier access to guns, I knew lots of kids growing up who had easy access to hunting rifles, shotguns and handguns belonging to their parents, some students were even avid hunters or target marksmen yet I never heard of anyone bringing a gun to school and shooting a bunch of people.

Part of the issue I suspect is the instant fame offered to people who do such acts by the media which tends to glorify it but I don't think that's all of it either. Certainly violent movies and video games were as prevalent then as they are now. I wonder too if it is related to the generation of coddled over-protected kids who have never been allowed to really fail and are thus completely unable to deal with rejection or failure. Maybe there are other aspects as well?

Either way "aggression detectors" strike me as just another reactionary thing that tries to focus on a symptom while ignoring the root cause(s).
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2019, 05:31:08 am »
:palm:
They found out there is no reason to spend efforts to identify/authenticate people.  People are happy to do it voluntarily themselves, especially if it saves them time.
That has nothing to do with threat detection.  That is still done by well-trained humans.

It's obvious why this system exists:
a) It's one of those ideas that easily pops out of brainstorming sessions at one of those startup workshops.
b) There is oodles of government school security program money to be had.

Doesn't matter it actually works or not.
 

Online ogden

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Re: "Aggression Detectors" installed in schools to monitor students
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2019, 07:19:38 am »
Either way "aggression detectors" strike me as just another reactionary thing that tries to focus on a symptom while ignoring the root cause(s).

What else you can do in the *schools*? Psychologically profile each kid? As EEVblog already mentioned, potential shooter may look quite normal. Unless teachers are highly trained - they may miss one. Obviously cameras do not physically catch thieves as they do not stop shooters, yet I strongly disagree that video surveillance with audio assist in the schools is waste of the money. I wish school where my grand kid will be going to is equipped such way, but it is not. After all bullying and drugs are other problems schools have to worry about.
 


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