EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Dodgy Technology => Topic started by: EEVblog on November 03, 2018, 11:21:46 am
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Make an offer!
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EPITOME-ONE-OF-A-KIND-ULTIMATE-4-7kW-2-3M-HIGH-HOME-THEATRE-SOUND-SYSTEM/253584899308 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EPITOME-ONE-OF-A-KIND-ULTIMATE-4-7kW-2-3M-HIGH-HOME-THEATRE-SOUND-SYSTEM/253584899308)
*PLEASE NOTE FIRST TWO 3D PHOTOS ARE FOR DEMONSTRATION PURPOSES ONLY*
It is best to inspect/witness this system in first person to allow yourself to experience the true awe that its presence creates...
Coming from a line of sound enthusiast and speaker designer/builders that dedicated large part of their lives to sound and music reproduction this system was built as a statement to the height of what can be achieved !
Each aspect of the system has our heart and soul poured into it and has evolved dynamically over nearly 10 years. The speakers are made of heavy pressed MDF with a piano black finish. They were designed and build in Russia and air flown to Australia.
These exact speakers were originally featured at the world's Top Gear Festival 2014 in Sydney
Focal's Grande Utopia has served as the initial inspiration for this build - Focal Grande Utopia EM (https://www.focal.com/en/home-audio/high-fidelity-speakers/utopia-iii/floorstanding-speakers/grande-utopia-em (https://www.focal.com/en/home-audio/high-fidelity-speakers/utopia-iii/floorstanding-speakers/grande-utopia-em)) is currently being offered for $285,000 retail (https://www.stereophonic.com.au/focal-grande-utopia-em-floorstanders-pair (https://www.stereophonic.com.au/focal-grande-utopia-em-floorstanders-pair))
The speakers are fully powered by top level Class-D amplifiers with an active crossover and featuring Dirac Live® Digital Room Correction and Sound Optimisation to dynamically achieve the highest possible level of sound quality in any environment.
The system is also designed to be mobile so it can be moved between rooms in a house or your theatre room for personal enjoyment or, on that big day having them rolled out to the social area or even weather protected outside environment to bathe your guests in that extra impression.
Our vision of 'what can be' has manifested itself in this wonder and have led to its unique superior range and sound characteristics:
- All sections are heavy solid MDF with subwoofers using double thickness. This is evident with each speaker stack weighting approximately 300kg. Each speaker is 235cm high (2.3m) and with the base and the curvature it requires allowance of 110cm in depth and 65cm in width.
- Each speaker stack is permanently fixed on a skirted heavy duty metal trolley with locking wheels. Trolleys were also custom designed and made allowing the speakers to be moved around and transported. Trolleys also feature metal frame fixture that covers the permanently fixed bottom 3 layers for safe transportation while detachable top two layers come with their own individual wheeled cases. Taking off top 2 layers/speakers allows moving through lower doorways in a building when detached.
- Each speaker comes with a full height assembled cover for safe storage when not in use.
- Speakers are direct driven with No Passive Crossover and requires 4 channels per each speaker stack to be driven, for a total of 8 channels that are provided by the processing and amplifier rack. NOTE: Passively crossing over this much power did not produce the results we were after.
- System is powered by two custom built Hypex 4.2kW amplifiers and a Crown 500W DriveCore™ amplifier. Amps were built and chosen to have as direct as possible sound pathway, with no unnecessary digital or analogue processing to minimise distortion and maintain highest quality. Total Amplifier Power Handling is 4.7kW
- All internal cabling is done using heavy grade Tchernov™ (http://www.tchernovcable.com (http://www.tchernovcable.com)) Power Speaker Cables
- Also Included in the set are two ultra-high end Tchernov™ 4-core cables for wiring the speaker stacks to the amplifier rack.
- All speaker drivers are top of the range Beyma™ - "European Drivers Since 1969". System Features 18" low end driver, 12", 6.5" and Pleated Diaphragm Tweeters. Speaker Total power handling is 3kW AES or 6.3kW Programmed
As this system is less of an object and more of an experience it is best to arrange and witness it in person.
We are located in Murrumbeena VIC 3163 (3 minutes from famous Chadstone SC)
(https://i.imgur.com/2er5OJZ.png)
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Another wank brand I hadn't heard of:
http://tchernovcable.com/en/products/ultimate-series/ (http://tchernovcable.com/en/products/ultimate-series/)
The Ultimate project marks the culmination of our continued efforts to redefine the state-of-the-art in cable design. These cables are the best we ever produced and probably the finest audio cables available anywhere today. Designed and carefully handcrafted for the most demanding High End enthusiasts they drive the industry to a previously unimagined level. The unmatched list of materials used reflect our relentless quest for absolute musical fidelity over the past 16 years.
The Ultimate cables incorporate a number of major design breakthroughs. The most profound distinction is the BRC+ conductors with unsurpassed impurity ratios, especially for the elements with semiconductor properties like tin (Sn) <0.00002%, germanium (Ge) <0.00002%, antimony (Sb) <0.00004%, arsenic (As) <0.00003%, cadmium (Cd) <0.00003%, and oxygen (O) <0.00024%. Due to their extremely high production cost the new BRC+ conductors are used only in the Ultimate series at present.
The field of dielectrics is a source of a further definition boost. We rethought the conductor insulation/binding arrangement maximizing their parameters through the use of a complex SATI®/SASDB® assembly. Such a radical solution steps down the common-mode component distributed capacitance thus manifesting itself as desensitizing the cable to HF and UHF noise and reducing signal energy losses. Moreover, it improves vibration damping of the conductor, exceeding that of the Reference series, and decreases the electrodynamic noise to undetectable levels.
The Ultimate cables are the first to be engineered with X-Shield® SE (Super Efficiency) - the next generation of our patented Multi-Element Shielding System. It is a 4-layer interactive sandwich, where a >60% BRC braid is enclosed by two layers of solid 50 µ rolled BRC foil. Heavy foil provides better EMI suppression at LF, where industrial noise is most intensive. Due to higher metal mass the SE edition offers superior vibration absorption and drastically reduces electrodynamic noise generated in the shield. Furthermore, the additional outer layer of >85% silver tinsel braid improves the HF-UHF noise protection. The comprehensive shielding capabilities further expand the attainable dynamic range.
The new gleaming top-of-the-line Ultimate RCA & XLR plugs along with Spade & Banana connectors, made of completely rhodium plated beryllium copper completes our meticulous product visualization. Rhodium is chosen for its extreme hardness. The coating serves to protect the beryllium copper pin’s surface from deformation and homogeneity disturbance which can cause non-linear or high resistive local zones. Rhodium is noted for its proven neutrality and more detailed, articulated performance.
Near ideal dynamics along with awesome scale definition maintained throughout the entire frequency range translates to exacting timbre, enormous physicality and fabulous uncompromised transparency. We cannot name a single competitor at any price which is clearly superior. But the final proof lies in listening, of course. The Ultimate is a priceless investment to a lifetime of audio excitement. Enjoy the music!
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That EPTIOME is so glossy it will light up with everything else in the room never mind the television.
Looking from the pictures it has got Samwha mains caps in the amplifier two small boards.
Why are they using loose speaker cable and TERMINAL STRIPS at the back of the subwoofer?
It looks dodgy for that price as you wouldn't expect cables dangling off a terminal block like that behind the subwoofer.
I see at Tchernov Cable they believe in the crystal/electron alignment wankery like from your EEVblog #29 - Audiophile Audiophoolery video.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4#t=2m20s)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4#t=2m20s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4#t=2m20s)
http://tchernovcable.com/en/materials/brc/ (http://tchernovcable.com/en/materials/brc/)
It doesn't say alignment but I get the picture from their diagram.
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"... made ourselves from scratch".
"And we even included some spare scratches for free!" :P
(Most obvious on the base of the left speaker.)
Audio qualities and ridiculous pricing aside, these things just look homemade and "wannabe high end" to me. If you polish the surfaces to a shine, better make sure that they are plane before you start polishing, because all those little wobbles will show up nicely...
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I find it always a bit lame to make fun of other people, while I see quite some gear snobs buying overpriced gear on this forum as well.
So to quote these people; "If you don't like it, don't watch it and leave them alone"
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I find it always a bit lame to make fun of other people, while I see quite some gear snobs buying overpriced gear on this forum as well.
So to quote these people; "If you don't like it, don't watch it and leave them alone"
No...I will not be happy until this filthy POS shorts out and BURNS! >:D
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"Each aspect of the system has our heart and soul poured into it "
Now there is :bullshit: if I ever knew one.
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"Air flown" as opposed to "ground flown".
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"Each aspect of the system has our heart and soul poured into it "
Now there is :bullshit: if I ever knew one.
They definitely poured their heart and soul on the aspects of dangling the wires and terminal blocks at the back of the speaker or better put had them flap around in the breeze.
Sarcasm; They couldn't have used any any terminal block not with that grade of cable so they must of cryogenically frozen them first and had their electrons realigned to match up with the cables.
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"If you don't like it, don't watch it and leave them alone"
That motto also works well for displeased readers of this thread. 8)
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"Air flown" as opposed to "ground flown".
In their defense, stuff you put on ships is called cargo, and you ship stuff by cars or trucks, so there's that... I guess they just wanted to make it perfectly clear to us that they spared no expense with their outsourcing of manual labour.
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Tchernov cable, it must be good it's got arrows on it to tell you which way the electrons flow :palm: For fuck sakes I would be more than happy with an old Marshall or Peavey amp and some speakers.
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I was searching for complaints about this cable and couldn't find any but I found a community of Audio Audiophoolies discussing them.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tchernov-cables-anyone-knows-anything-about-them (https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/tchernov-cables-anyone-knows-anything-about-them)
Quoted from Inna at Audiogon
The cables require 230 hours to fully burn in, they now have about 160 hours. I tried them with three sources - Acoustech PH-1 phono, Nak 682ZX deck and CEC TL5100Z cd player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4#t=2m35s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7ERMu825m4#t=2m35s)
Dave: "You have to wear them in, it's nuts!"
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Erm, the top two photos are 2D photos, not 3D photos!
But then it would be surprising if audiophools got anything right!
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Isn't that the price of a small house?
???
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I find it always a bit lame to make fun of other people, while I see quite some gear snobs buying overpriced gear on this forum as well.
Show me a $5000 hand held multimeter with the same specs as a $50 meter and I'll concede your point.
The difference is huge. Many engineers don't mind buying more expensive test gear that has say a bandwidth they might never use, or better build quality etc, and that's fine. But what they don't do is claim that their $5000 instrument with the same specs can measure things the $50 instrument can't. That's what Audiophools claim, and it's why we are justified in laughing at them.
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Erm, the top two photos are 2D photos, not 3D photos!
But then it would be surprising if audiophools got anything right!
Actually, they're 2D renders of 3D models
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Erm, the top two photos are 2D photos, not 3D photos!
But then it would be surprising if audiophools got anything right!
Actually, they're 2D renders of 3D models
Precisely. They are not 3D photos.
But then I've been taking 3D photos since 1984, and have some wonderful ones from the Edwardian and WW1 eras :)
https://vintagestereoscopicglassslides.wordpress.com/
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You guys have it all wrong!
I think the house is included and its is a bargain.
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What I find interesting is that the rendered speakers look so nice because the speaker cones have a distinct color. The real ones, however, are using plain old paper cones in the all-too-common shade of gray. They try to sell these babies for big bucks but don't use fancy-looking speakers? Amateurs.
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A bit inconsistent with not making the real ones fancy looking.
Looking at that AudoiGoon website I think I need some kind of amplification to hear for myself what they say they are hearing.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-speaker-cables-need-a-burn-in-period
Quote from gdnrbob1 at Audiogoon
Components and cables seem to be affected by a 'breaking in' period.
What seems to be a simply electric path has subtle intricacies that, in the end, affect sound reproduction.
It seems like it would make a great thesis in EE.
For mere listeners, like myself, I just recognize the effect and play music.
When 'it' happens, I am a happy guy.
What a happy guy when it's broken into.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/cannot-find-perfect-sound/post?postid=1643618
Quote from kenjit at AudioGoon
Cannot find perfect sound
I've been listening to supposedly some of the finest speakers that currently exist. These include b&w 800 Series, revel high end, vivid audio, Psi audio and kef blades.
They must have excellent hearing and I wonder if they would submit themselves to hearing tests to confirm how good their hearing is to notice the difference.
Quote from jim204 at AudioGoon
I think one because they are probably a centimetre from your ear drum and two they are blasting may100 db as well and maybe they have damaged your eardrums so much that you now can't differentiate good from bad. Them earbuds'll do it every time.
Might have gone deaf without noticing but notices everything else with the sound.
I wonder if they would subject themselves to hearing tests to show that they have superior hearing and can hear such differences.
Sarcasm; Also I think Google agrees with me or were they Google bombed?
Type in AudioGoon and the AudioGon website comes at the top of the search results.
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And look, how they connect the cables inside.
Unbelievable!
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And look, how they connect the cables inside.
Unbelievable!
They are not ordinary cables or terminal blocks.
Nor can they be tightened down and secured due to the outside vibrations of the casing that might be heard through the speaker.
The sound won't sound pure enough if the cables are tightened down so it is best to leave them loose so that they resist any external vibrations that may occur.
They have been cryogenically frozen and had their electrons and crystals realigned to match up with the likes of the Audiophoolies at the AudioGoon community website. (https://forum.audiogon.com/)
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I find it always a bit lame to make fun of other people, while I see quite some gear snobs buying overpriced gear on this forum as well.
Show me a $5000 hand held multimeter with the same specs as a $50 meter and I'll concede your point.
The difference is huge. Many engineers don't mind buying more expensive test gear that has say a bandwidth they might never use, or better build quality etc, and that's fine. But what they don't do is claim that their $5000 instrument with the same specs can measure things the $50 instrument can't. That's what Audiophools claim, and it's why we are justified in laughing at them.
Not gonna go into a debate with that, because it's gonna be an endless story.
But let me say this,
If it was about debunking some kind of product on the market or company, fair enough.
But doing this on a personal or individual level is just being judgemental and childish.
Like I said, I just find it lame to make fun of other people, go look at the mirror first to face your own little weird quirks since everyone has them.
Very disappointing.
Maybe it's just a difference in culture, but many people I know would find it a little disrespectful.
Even if what people believe isn't totally completely according to science, just respect them.
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“This is a custom made system that we designed and made ourselves from scratch.”
Including the "custom" cheap eBay amp boards with the traditional QC (Quality Check) label on them... :palm:
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I find it always a bit lame to make fun of other people, while I see quite some gear snobs buying overpriced gear on this forum as well.
Show me a $5000 hand held multimeter with the same specs as a $50 meter and I'll concede your point.
The difference is huge. Many engineers don't mind buying more expensive test gear that has say a bandwidth they might never use, or better build quality etc, and that's fine. But what they don't do is claim that their $5000 instrument with the same specs can measure things the $50 instrument can't. That's what Audiophools claim, and it's why we are justified in laughing at them.
Not gonna go into a debate with that, because it's gonna be an endless story.
You aren't going to do that because you can't.
The same reason why no one ever claimed the James Randi $1M prize for audiophool cables, because the claims are bullshit.
Go on, amaze us how say an expensive audiophool speaker cable that has the exact same electrical parameters as a cheap equivalent twin flex can make any difference.
Or how an audiophool mains cable can "sound" any different to the same electrical equivalent hardware store mains cable.
Even if what people believe isn't totally completely according to science, just respect them.
Respect them? :-DD Why on earth should anyone "respect" someone for believe utter nonsense?
I'll fight for their right to believe anything they want, but I damn sure won't respect them for it.
Look, I've got no problem with paying more money for good quality audio gear that can make a demonstrable difference in performance and/or build quality (for reliability etc), but when you start claiming anti-science anti-engineering utter nonsense then expect to be called out for it and laughed at.
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Even if what people believe isn't totally completely according to science, just respect them.
Respect them? :-DD Why on earth should anyone "respect" someone for believe utter nonsense?
I'll fight for their right to believe anything they want, but I damn sure won't respect them for it.
Just so. Succinctly put :)
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Why are the woofers pictured in that Ebay ad made out of extra cheap old style paper. And they are so big that any definition and range is lost due to vibrating that cheap mass of flexible paper back and forth. Much superior technology exists today.
Also, that blue db SPL graph swinging with peaks at 65db going down to 35db not even counting the above 10khz region bloody sucks like crap.
Even my 20 year old Clements RT-7s, a 7 inch woofer and 7 inch ribbon tweeter speaker is flat within 1-2db from 35hz to 25Khz, not to mention they can deliver over 98db SPL distortion free throughout this frequency range. And they only cost 1300$ and take up a fraction of the floor room.
Also that internal photo of the amp does not look like it would pass UL or FCC. In fact, it looks like a home made piece of junk. Without certification, if I have a fire in my house and the insurance company discovers I used this amp, will they cover my multi-million dollar home, or will I loose all my money?
(Considering the price of the audio system, your home would need to be in the mid 7 figure range at least...)
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I find it always a bit lame to make fun of other people, while I see quite some gear snobs buying overpriced gear on this forum as well.
Show me a $5000 hand held multimeter with the same specs as a $50 meter and I'll concede your point.
The difference is huge. Many engineers don't mind buying more expensive test gear that has say a bandwidth they might never use, or better build quality etc, and that's fine. But what they don't do is claim that their $5000 instrument with the same specs can measure things the $50 instrument can't. That's what Audiophools claim, and it's why we are justified in laughing at them.
Not gonna go into a debate with that, because it's gonna be an endless story.
You aren't going to do that because you can't.
The same reason why no one ever claimed the James Randi $1M prize for audiophool cables, because the claims are bullshit.
Go on, amaze us how say an expensive audiophool speaker cable that has the exact same electrical parameters as a cheap equivalent twin flex can make any difference.
Or how an audiophool mains cable can "sound" any different to the same electrical equivalent hardware store mains cable.
Even if what people believe isn't totally completely according to science, just respect them.
Respect them? :-DD Why on earth should anyone "respect" someone for believe utter nonsense?
I'll fight for their right to believe anything they want, but I damn sure won't respect them for it.
Look, I've got no problem with paying more money for good quality audio gear that can make a demonstrable difference in performance and/or build quality (for reliability etc), but when you start claiming anti-science anti-engineering utter nonsense then expect to be called out for it and laughed at.
I was obviously talking about overly expensive gear not overly expensive cables.
I am not gonna go any further with this.
Not saying I don't agree with you (because overly expensive audio gear also makes me cringe) but laughing at people because in your opinion it sounds silly is extremely lame and lacking of any kind of respect.
What is the next step, religions and cultures
Since that is basically the same ballpark.
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Not saying I don't agree with you (because overly expensive audio gear also makes me cringe) but laughing at people because in your opinion it sounds silly is extremely lame and lacking of any kind of respect.
What is the next step, religions and cultures
Quite right[1].
You should respect me and my statement that "1+2*3=9" [2]
You should respect me and my pastafarian religion, and not laugh at its mandatory headgear:
(https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/9639a717445a2def65e1ed7b1be6cff4)
[1] Not.
[2] Far too many people, including teachers, believe that is true.
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You should respect me and my statement that "1+2*3=9" [2]
[2] Far too many people, including teachers, believe that is true.
It'll be too hard if we put in the brackets and we believe not everyone wants or needs to know apart from the very few who are able and want to do it. It is very hard and difficult to explain what they mean when they are in their early stages and it is time consuming for us. It is not an economical and cost effective modern teaching method for the mass majority. We can make equivalently good students if they follow a set of strict instructions set by us like the above and everything will be just fine. If they can't do it we demote them to an easier set of instructions so they won't fail. It is a program after all.
Oh yes down the corner we have junk food shops to support it and the junk science curriculum behind it which was dumbed down even more last year to make it "easier" to teach. The uniform regulations considered to be part of the respect were tightened up in an effort to improve behaviour and results. This year you only needed 17% to pass maths at the state schools despite it being "toughened up".
Apparently in England you don't need to be qualified to become a teacher as of last year as in the news they were advertising for them without any qualifications or understanding and I still see requests for them on the Indeed job search site. They do have a high entry requirement for a lot of low paid for jobs the last time I checked.
I think it is responsible for a lot of that junk science and terminology such as these snake oil cables.
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You should respect me and my statement that "1+2*3=9" [2]
[2] Far too many people, including teachers, believe that is true.
It'll be too hard if we put in the brackets and we believe not everyone wants or needs to know apart from the very few who are able and want to do it. It is very hard and difficult to explain what they mean when they are in their early stages and it is time consuming for us. It is not an economical and cost effective modern teaching method for the mass majority. We can make equivalently good students if they follow a set of strict instructions set by us like the above and everything will be just fine. If they can't do it we demote them to an easier set of instructions so they won't fail. It is a program after all.
What is all that meant to mean?
This year you only needed 17% to pass maths at the state schools despite it being "toughened up".
Source reference, please. If none, then it is a TrumpTruth. After all, 23% of statistics are made up on the spot.
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What is all that meant to mean?
You should respect me and my statement that "1+(2*3)=9" [2]
No brackets were put in there to read it any differently but I normally go the first way around.
Just one of my jokes on the language I hear from those who want to make things easier in a way.
What is all that meant to mean?
Source:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/24/passing-exam-has-never-easier-just-15-per-cent-required-pass/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/24/passing-exam-has-never-easier-just-15-per-cent-required-pass/)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072741/The-tough-new-GCSE-needs-just-17-score-C.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072741/The-tough-new-GCSE-needs-just-17-score-C.html)
I know someone who is a retired maths teacher that I still do some work for.
He teaches privately now and he told me about that and then I heard it in the news.
Normally I don't believe the news but he said they lowered the standard and that all his students passed way above what he expected this year.
I suppose every area is different.
Just my sarcasm.
I am just interested in how they got taken in by the snake oil claims and whether this might have something to do with it.
If they have got superior hearing I would like to see hearing tests.
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/24/passing-exam-has-never-easier-just-15-per-cent-required-pass/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/24/passing-exam-has-never-easier-just-15-per-cent-required-pass/)
Idiocracy, here we are! ;D
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What is all that meant to mean?
You should respect me and my statement that "1+(2*3)=9" [2]
No brackets were put in there to read it any differently but I normally go the first way around.
Just one of my jokes on the language I hear from those who want to make things easier in a way.
What is all that meant to mean?
Source:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/24/passing-exam-has-never-easier-just-15-per-cent-required-pass/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2017/08/24/passing-exam-has-never-easier-just-15-per-cent-required-pass/)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072741/The-tough-new-GCSE-needs-just-17-score-C.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6072741/The-tough-new-GCSE-needs-just-17-score-C.html)
I know someone who is a retired maths teacher that I still do some work for.
He teaches privately now and he told me about that and then I heard it in the news.
Normally I don't believe the news but he said they lowered the standard and that all his students passed way above what he expected this year.
I suppose every area is different.
Just my sarcasm.
I am just interested in how they got taken in by the claims on those cables and stuff unless they have got superior hearing I would like to see hearing tests.
Your editing is askew. I find the "preview" button very useful before clicking "post".
Apart from that, if there's anything in the Daily Wail that surprises me, then I automatically assume the Wail is being deceitful. After all, as far as the Wail is infamously concerned, all substances can be divided into two categories: "cancer causing" and "cancer curing". Or for example, the Wail has wailed "chemical X has been detected in your food, why hasn't the EU banned it" - carefully neglecting to mention that the EU had banned it 5 years earlier. Their motto must be "never let the facts get in the way of a headline that will encourage teh worried-well to buy the paper".
The Torygraph is a little better, but the Barclay brothers still have Agendas - infamously against the BBC. It can be difficult to ascertain whether a story has passed the editor because it matches their agenda.
Having said that, diddling with the boundaries is a perennial pasttime, sometimes for good reasons. As someone that did double A-level maths in the 70s, I always thought the exams from the 50s looked harder.
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Daily Wail. I like that.
Sorry silly me I mistype things or say them wrong and don't notice until after despite using the preview button.
Anyway I'll check twice before posting.
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Daily Wail. I like that.
Sorry silly me I mistype things or say them wrong and don't notice until after despite using the preview button.
Anyway I'll check twice before posting.
So do I. I still need to use the modify button far too often :(
Neither the Torygraph nor the Daily Wail is original, unfortunately. Ditto the Daily Sexpress when it was owned by the pornographer.
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Looking at the amplifier in the photo, the one with Samwha mains caps, the two amplifier boards don't look like they are mounted on anything but the heatsinks and fans and they don't look level as well to each other. Maybe it goes with it being hand made.
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I was obviously talking about overly expensive gear not overly expensive cables.
You implied that buying expensive test gear is like expensive audio products. When you are talking about "audiophool" products, it's not.
I am not gonna go any further with this.
Not saying I don't agree with you (because overly expensive audio gear also makes me cringe) but laughing at people because in your opinion it sounds silly is extremely lame and lacking of any kind of respect.
Respect is earned, not just given.
And it's not "in my opinion", audiophool products are demonstrably bullshit, and you can use basic scientific testing and engineering knowledge to prove that.
What is the next step, religions and cultures
Since that is basically the same ballpark.
Correct, religion is the same BS, because there is zero demonstrable evidence, and you get hit with the same "you must respect my belief" rubbish.
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“This is a custom made system that we designed and made ourselves from scratch.”
Also: 'designed ourselves' is a bold claim.
It’s rather: "We shamefully tried to copy an award winning system* that sells well among folks with serious money to burn, but lack all basic skills in speaker design."
I don’t think anyone even tried to run a simulation of "their design". Looking at the quoted Beyma 18’’ driver datasheets, these look more like PA than HiFi drivers. Why buy a shitty copy if you can get the original Focal system for basically the same price? I would love to see specs for the used drivers and cross-over components. xD
*among a certain community anyway
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I was obviously talking about overly expensive gear not overly expensive cables.
You implied that buying expensive test gear is like expensive audio products. When you are talking about "audiophool" products, it's not.
I am not gonna go any further with this.
Not saying I don't agree with you (because overly expensive audio gear also makes me cringe) but laughing at people because in your opinion it sounds silly is extremely lame and lacking of any kind of respect.
Respect is earned, not just given.
And it's not "in my opinion", audiophool products are demonstrably bullshit, and you can use basic scientific testing and engineering knowledge to prove that.
What is the next step, religions and cultures
Since that is basically the same ballpark.
Correct, religion is the same BS, because there is zero demonstrable evidence, and you get hit with the same "you must respect my belief" rubbish.
So you don't mind it at all if we start to tear apart all your personal quirks and laugh about it in public?
Because I have seen many of your choices that aren't totally "scientifically logic" at all (as if that is the only and best way humans and nature works :palm:)
In addition make fun of how you were raised, you family, your children, your sexuality, your home country, the way you talk and just laugh at you in front of your face?
I find that VERY VERY difficult to believe Dave. Because those are pretty much the same things as what's going on in this topic.
The fact that you find something dumb and stupid doesn't give anyone the right to discriminate
Yes you may have an opinion about it, you may discuss it but just to ridicule and making fun of people in public (forum) is a whole different story.
And for the record, if we are talking about religions (I am not religious myself), prove me evidence that god DOESN'T exist.
answer: you can't
longer answer: you can only prove that certain chapters or explanations from bibles etc aren't correct according evidence, but that still doesn't prove god doesn't exist.
If you understand anything about science, you know that conclusions are always based on statistics. By definition that means that there is not only a margin of error, but also a change that the conclusions don't even work.
So a real scientist will be agnostic, and can only say something about a certain likeliness.
A religious person believes in god, a atheist believes in that fact that there isn't a god and agnostic doesn't believe but basis his opinions on scientific evidence.
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So we should totally hippie love all over people who's "little quark" is to try to scam 250K for a Chinesium POS that could potentially void your insurance and set your house on fire?
Ok, so my "little quark" will be to sell you 10K "audio grade" power supplies, as is, then not fuse them or tell you the (very large) capacitors are backwards. No refunds or returns. >:D
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So we should totally hippie love all over people who's "little quark" is to try to scam 250K for a Chinesium POS that could potentially void your insurance and set your house on fire?
Ok, so my "little quark" will be to sell you 10K "audio grade" power supplies, as is, then not fuse them or tell you the (very large) capacitors are backwards. No refunds or returns. >:D
Well first of all, learn to read, because I very clearly said that I understand it when it's about debunking products or companies.
But debunking and coming with evidence and keeping it objective is very different than ridiculing people.
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Well, if people want to buy this stuff then I don't see any problem so long as it isn't being mis-described by the seller. It would be right at home on Top Gear, because it would appeal to the same folks who buy ridiculously overspecified and totally impractical cars. Like the one which was so low to the ground that it couldn't negotiate a car park ramp. :-DD
At least the hi-fi isn't likely to end your existence by crashing into you on the highway, so maybe better that they spend their money this way. Though, ear defenders would be a must if you live near. >:(
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So we should totally hippie love all over people who's "little quark" is to try to scam 250K for a Chinesium POS that could potentially void your insurance and set your house on fire?
Ok, so my "little quark" will be to sell you 10K "audio grade" power supplies, as is, then not fuse them or tell you the (very large) capacitors are backwards. No refunds or returns. >:D
Well first of all, learn to read, because I very clearly said that I understand it when it's about debunking products or companies.
But debunking and coming with evidence and keeping it objective is very different than ridiculing people.
Ah, so it's totally okay to make fun of a whole bunch of people making lots of crap, but not okay to make fun of one person who made one giant POS. ::)
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And for the record, if we are talking about religions (I am not religious myself), prove me evidence that god DOESN'T exist.
answer: you can't
Are you seriously going to ask for that? Of course you can't, and for several reasons. But why should anyone even try that? Default position is non belief. Changing that should require evidence and proof.
longer answer: you can only prove that certain chapters or explanations from bibles etc aren't correct according evidence, but that still doesn't prove god doesn't exist.
And none of the chapters and passages that we can verify to be factual prove that God exists. What's your point?
If you understand anything about science, you know that conclusions are always based on statistics. By definition that means that there is not only a margin of error, but also a change that the conclusions don't even work.
Interesting.
So current score is:
Evidence for existence of God = 0; perfectly reasonable scientific explanations for various phenomena that don't require God = too many to count.
Can you please calculate the confidence level for this statistic?
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Has this thread really devolved into a religious debate within two pages? Well done.
Regarding the need to disprove god, see the links below.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
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And for the record, if we are talking about religions (I am not religious myself), prove me evidence that god DOESN'T exist.
Actually, nobody has to provide that evidence. Those people who claim that a god exist are the ones who must provide the evidence for their claims, since they claim the existence of something that is not observable by default.
So that's not a valid reason to not ridicule someone. A valid reason would be that ridiculing someone who doesn't do any harm to anyone just for having certain beliefs is simply obnoxious. But that hardly applies to people who sell this overpriced system for $250000.
A religious person believes in god, a atheist believes in that fact that there isn't a god and agnostic doesn't believe but basis his opinions on scientific evidence.
As an atheist, I can assure you, that, first, facts do not require belief; second, I don't "believe" that there is no god. Not believing in a god does not require an active belief, unlike believing in a god and actually being a part of some religion.
In fact what you described as an "agnostic" is equally applicable to an atheist.
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Religion? They can do a prayer over it and call it Halal cables for all I care.
I would like to see one of those snake oil cables sent to Dave so he can take the oil out of it and do some analysis and teardown on video.
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So you don't mind it at all if we start to tear apart all your personal quirks and laugh about it in public?
:-DD
Not at all, go for it, seriously. What do you think a big Youtuber gets all day every day, 100% complementary email in their safe space?
Again, you are not comparing apples to apples. I'm talking about laughing at demonstrable audiophoolery, and you are talking about people's quirks :palm:
Because I have seen many of your choices that aren't totally "scientifically logic" at all (as if that is the only and best way humans and nature works :palm:)
In addition make fun of how you were raised, you family, your children, your sexuality, your home country, the way you talk and just laugh at you in front of your face?
Go for it, knock yourself out.
I find that VERY VERY difficult to believe Dave. Because those are pretty much the same things as what's going on in this topic.
The fact that you find something dumb and stupid doesn't give anyone the right to discriminate
:palm:
Discriminate
Yes you may have an opinion about it, you may discuss it but just to ridicule and making fun of people in public (forum) is a whole different story.
It's a quarter of a million dollar DIY audiophool speaker and amp on ebay, it's hilarious! (note my non-use of people)
And for the record, if we are talking about religions (I am not religious myself), prove me evidence that god DOESN'T exist.
:palm:
So a real scientist will be agnostic, and can only say something about a certain likeliness.
A religious person believes in god, a atheist believes in that fact that there isn't a god and agnostic doesn't believe but basis his opinions on scientific evidence.
You don't even have the definition of an atheist correct :palm:
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Why buy a shitty copy if you can get the original Focal system for basically the same price?
I now have a pair of Focal pro studio monitors for my editing, expect to hear extra expanded sound stage presence in my upcoming videos ;D
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I now have a pair of Focal pro studio monitors for my editing, expect to hear extra expanded sound stage presence in my upcoming videos ;D
Nice! :-+ Which ones did you get? Alpha series or something more costly?
I've heard a lot of good things about the Alphas and also Trio6.
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Were The ROKIT 6 ones not good enough?
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Nice! :-+ Which ones did you get? Alpha series or something more costly?
I've heard a lot of good things about the Alphas and also Trio6.
Used CMS 40's, they are very schmick.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DqzZCmDU8AEB38f.jpg:large)
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Were The ROKIT 6 ones not good enough?
Good enough, yes, suitable for my new small enclosed cubicle editing office, not really, they are too big and boomy.
The CMS40's provide more detail in a smaller more suitable volume. The die-cast allow cases are sex-on-a-stick.
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It's also on Gumtree, because, why not!
(Gumtree is the place to list free 2nd hand stuff in Oz, owned by ebay)
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/murrumbeena/home-theatre-systems/epitome-ultimate-4-7kw-2-3m-high-home-theatre-sound-system/1199216664 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/murrumbeena/home-theatre-systems/epitome-ultimate-4-7kw-2-3m-high-home-theatre-sound-system/1199216664)
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Gumtree:
"It is best to inspect/witness this system in first person to allow yourself to experience the true awe that its presence creates...
The pictures speak for themselves.
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I now have a pair of Focal pro studio monitors for my editing, expect to hear extra expanded sound stage presence in my upcoming videos ;D
Focal monitors are great! :-+
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Reduced from $250,000 to only $18,000!
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EPITOME-ONE-OF-A-KIND-ULTIMATE-4-7kW-2-3M-HIGH-HOME-THEATRE-SOUND-SYSTEM/253584899308 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EPITOME-ONE-OF-A-KIND-ULTIMATE-4-7kW-2-3M-HIGH-HOME-THEATRE-SOUND-SYSTEM/253584899308)
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Wow! Now I can spend more money on power cables.
eBay auction: #https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Purist-Audio-Design-Dominus-PLASMA-AC-Rev-B-3-0m-power-cable-d230/264272319108?hash=item3d87db9284:g:Fg0AAOSwOyxcqFNo&frcectupt=true
Now I will get better audio out of it. :-+
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Take a look at the scratches.
I see it has got scratches on it at the bottom of the left speaker and around the speaker and they wanted $250,000 for it.
(https://i.imgur.com/UWR5u3f.jpg)
I thought at first it was the reflection.
Just found ebaster has already commented on it:
"... made ourselves from scratch".
"And we even included some spare scratches for free!" :P
(Most obvious on the base of the left speaker.)
Audio qualities and ridiculous pricing aside, these things just look homemade and "wannabe high end" to me. If you polish the surfaces to a shine, better make sure that they are plane before you start polishing, because all those little wobbles will show up nicely...
That picture and with the tiny television in the middle does make it look dodgy.
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Go on, amaze us how say an expensive audiophool speaker cable that has the exact same electrical parameters as a cheap equivalent twin flex can make any difference.
Sure it can, when used correctly.
Find a subject who is an audiophile. (Non-audiophiles may not have the ability to discriminate between high-end audiophile cables and cheap flex, even if they are professional recording engineers.) Ask the subject whether he wants to listen to the cheap flex or the audiophile cable first, install that and let him listen. When he requests changing to the other cable, do so and let him listen again. Repeat as necessary. He will hear clearly that the audiophile cable sounds better.
WARNING: Be very careful that you do not accidentally install the cheap flex when the subject has asked for the audiophile cable, or vice versa. Doing so will critically damage the audiophile cable and actually make it sound worse than the cheap flex. (And, probably, void the warranty on the audiophile cable.)