EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Dodgy Technology => Topic started by: EEVblog on January 02, 2019, 11:15:26 pm
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£2,000 BNC cable
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere — at any price. Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science, Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies that sets the standard for quality and performance in the cable industry.
Sigma digital cables feature Shunyata Research’s exclusive patent-pending TAP Polarizer technology. TAP reduces electromagnetic polarization distortion. Ohno Continuous Cast Copper and PMZ conductors with exotic fluorocarbon dielectrics make for a true reference quality digital cable.
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/digital-cables/sigma-clock-50/
(https://shunyata-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/sigma-clock-50-coiled-1800x1200-1200x800.jpg)
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https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/03/shunyata-research-transverse-axial.html (https://www.monoandstereo.com/2018/03/shunyata-research-transverse-axial.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/zBuygZS.jpg)
Is that a magnetic in there with a coil over it?
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/digital-cables/sigma-clock-50/
TAP (Transverse Axial Polarizer) is a device that interacts with the electromagnetic field generated by the signal traveling along the signal cable. TAP improves the sonic performance of the cable by modifying the behavior of the electromagnetic wave that surrounds the signal cable. In effect, the TAP blocks longitudinal-oriented waves while passing transverse-oriented waves. The effect in sonic terms is like using polarized sunglasses to reduce reflected sunlight. Correcting polarization micro-distortion reduces what some call sonic glare.
~ Patent Pending ~
Trying to associate vision with audio.
I see their "research:
https://shunyata.com/technology-guide/ (https://shunyata.com/technology-guide/)
I can hear just fine I don't want my audio polarised thank you very much.
Here's a joke:
A cable marketed for people with bipolar.
Helps them see and hear better to bring them out of their manic mood.
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Container filled with exclusive 100% snake oil.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=611674;image)
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I bet that the impedance of this abomination is so bad it would actually cause real SWR issues and malfuntions in sensative equipment. Especually if that stupid load-coil thing is actually connected.
EDIT: Does the manual instruct to use excess SWR grease? >:D
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Has anybody ever put these cables to the test on a real network analyzer?
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Has anybody ever put these cables to the test on a real network analyzer?
Anyone with a network analyser is not dumb enough to buy one ;D
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Shunyata Research’s exclusive patent-pending TAP Polarizer technology
If it's patent-pending then the details of how it works (and what it is) will be available for public viewing. I'm pretty sure that here in the UK it's a very naughty thing indeed to do to say something is patented, or patent-pending, when it isn't. Don't know about less civilised places.
Edit: citation supplied:
Unauthorised patent claims (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/manual-of-patent-practice-mopp/section-110-unauthorised-claim-of-patent-rights)
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Shunyata Research’s exclusive patent-pending TAP Polarizer technology
If it's patent-pending then the details of how it works (and what it is) will be available for public viewing. I'm pretty sure that here in the UK it's a very naughty thing indeed to do to say something is patented, or patent-pending, when it isn't. Don't know about less civilised places.
Doubt it, probably just another mom & pop brick & mortar audio shop, that had been milking audiogoons for decades, and may be this creation is from their successor.
This scenes are so common and happened almost every big cities in this world.
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Hi Group,
The patent is probably real, and may have been granted.
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/caelin-gabriel (https://patents.justia.com/inventor/caelin-gabriel)
From the Shunyata Research website:
Link: https://shunyata-uk.com/about-us/ (https://shunyata-uk.com/about-us/)
Caelin Gabriel is a former US military research scientist with a background in the research and design of ultra-sensitive data-acquisition systems. These systems were designed to detect extremely low-level signals otherwise obscured by random noise, requiring years of intensive research into the sources and effects of signal and power-line noise interference. Gabriel’s subsequent work experience involved development of high-speed networking devices including the 1GB/s fibre-channel interface and the present 100MB/s and 1GB/s ethernet devices. These unique work-related experiences were at the highest levels of government and computer science. This extensive design background led Gabriel to develop the fundamental design concepts for the patented technologies, measurements and custom-designed parts that form the cornerstone of the Shunyata product range. Gabriel holds more than 7 patents, with numerous additional patents-pending. These technical innovations have earned Gabriel’s product designs professional endorsements from the world’s finest recording studios and more recently, from heart surgeons and hospitals across the United States. Gabriel continues to advance his development of new technologies, part design, and construction, keeping Shunyata Research at the forefront of its field.
From the Patent Application (Application #20180183227)
Link: https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180183227 (https://patents.justia.com/patent/20180183227)
BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION
Field of the Invention
The present invention relates most generally to audio sound systems and devices that improve the performance of cables used for audio and video production or reproduction. The invention is more particularly directed to a device improves the performance of audio interconnects, speaker cables, video cables, and digital audio cables used to interconnect consumer and professional electronic components.
Background Discussion
It is well known that cables interconnecting audio systems can have a significant effect upon the perceived sonic performance of a system. There are many cables that are claimed to improve the sonic performance through the use of higher purity copper conductors, lower dielectric coefficient insulation, complex braided geometries, superior types of connectors, and even charged shielding to reduce dielectric absorption.
The physics of electromagnetic signal propagation through an insulated conductor is well known. The conductor for a signal cable provides a current path for an alternating current signal. The associated electromagnetic wave propagates not only through the conductor but also outside the boundaries of the electrical conductor itself. This EM field travels axially along the path of the signal wire. It is also well-known to physicists that that the EM field that surrounds the signal wire can affect nearby electrical conductors and circuitry through the principles of induction and capacitive coupling. Further, it is understood that electromagnetic fields from other conductors and electronic components external to the signal wire can affect the signal traveling through the wire.
You can find the full patent here:
Link: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20180183227.pdf (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20180183227.pdf)
It basically describes adding between 4 and 28 washers on the wire:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=612046;image)
So if you want to work around this patent just use 29 washers. :D
[sarcasm]
29 washers should have a similar effect upon the perceived sonic performance of a system.
[/sarcasm]
There are other gems such as:
Cable elevator
Aug 22, 2008
A cable support apparatus for suspending audio and/or video system cables above the floor. The device is configured as a sandwich of at least three layers of electrically conductive foam, including first and second outer layers fabricated from a low density electrically conductive foam, and an inner layer disposed between said first and second outer layers and fabricated from a foam having a higher density and greater rigidity than the foam of said first and second layers. The inner layer includes a V-shaped crotch for supporting a cable with minimal surface contact. The cable support minimizes floor vibrations transmitted to the cable, breaks up resonant vibration modes within the cable support itself, and neutralizes static-electrical charge differentials between the cable and the floor.
This is a block of antistatic foam:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=612064;image)
I can't find these for sale.
Other patents include: Drift current coulombic storage apparatus
But, I don't want to take this thread off topic :P
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
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Cool! Thanks for turning those up. Seems to be a fair amount of money involved, especially if they all get accepted.
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Hi group,
Here is another 'gem' from the same company, the $425.00 USD, extension cord:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=612097;image)
I left the 'need help?', if you buy a $425.00 extension cord, this question is redundant, you NEED help.
Whenever I see these special power cables, I always wonder about all the wiring in the wall. Is there an untapped market for special wiring in the wall?
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
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28 washers on the wire in a see through plastic cover for $2,000 using standard bnc coax connectors.
I'll be waiting to see when they start with a beeswax variant.
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Why are there so many of these audiophool companies ?
Seems to me like the audiophool subculture would be a good candidate for some research to be done on them and it. The prices and ridiculous arguments made in the products just keep getting more and more sketchy (same as dodgy) and outrageous.
Why now?
Edit: removed speculation there were more of this kind of company in one country when it was pointed out that didn't apply to this case and also was wrong.
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Why are there so many of these audiophool companies in the UK now? (Seems much fewer in the US+Australia, don't know about India.)
Snip...
That would explain it.
Shunyata Research is a USA based company.
Shunyata UK is a distributor in the UK, The Shunyata Distribution Company Ltd.
A lot of HiFi comes from the UK because of pioneering work done in conjunction with the BBC. This was great engineering, not 'dodgy technology'.
Jay_Diddy_B
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Oh, but they also sell an RCA cable with the same "technology" for twice as much:
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/
:-DD
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Oh, but they also sell an RCA cable with the same "technology" for twice as much:
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/
:-DD
From the website:
£4,000.00
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere — at any price. Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science, Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies that sets the standard for quality and performance in the cable industry.
Price is per pair of interconnect cables.
Standard length of each cable is 1 metre.
Please contact us for custom lengths.
All prices include VAT.
The RCA cables are sold in pairs, so the price per cable is the same.
£4,000.00 for one cable would be unreasonable, apparently £2,000.00 is okay!! ;)
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
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The RCA cables are sold in pairs, so the price per cable is the same.
£4,000.00 for one cable would be unreasonable, apparently £2,000.00 is okay!! ;)
Oh, damn. This all makes sense now.
£2000 is the price per meter of TAP cable. ;D
Note that they seem to justify the nonsense for their Sigma cable for high-speed digital signals based on transmission line properties, yet they use the same approach for cables that are labeled as "analog cables". Would be interesting to understand the line of reasoning. :popcorn:
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Hi Group,
The patent is probably real, and may have been granted.
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/caelin-gabriel (https://patents.justia.com/inventor/caelin-gabriel)
While it's a real patent application, nothing has been granted so far. The patent examiner issued a "non-final rejection" last year, because -- surprise! -- the claimed invention is not deemed to be new. (The whole patent examination file gets published, starting 18 months after the patent filing. Available online here: https://portal.uspto.gov/pair/PublicPair.)
In the examiner's opinion, the claimed features of the "polarizer" are the same at what was described by a third party ealier, for a different purpose:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130112477A1/en?oq=20130112477
That invention looks more legit, and aims to supress higher transverse modes in a coaxial conductor.
But that story is not over yet; the applicant could still reply to the office action and keep trying to obtain a patent. I am not sure whether patent examiners would get into the "this just doesn't make physical sense" argument at all?
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I've heard that there is a real shortage of appropriately skilled patent examiners globally.
It requires a wider scope of knowledge than most professions.
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Hi,
Thank you to eblaster for being more diligent than I was.
The Spinner application looks more professional, and is at microwave frequencies.
The patent office doesn't judge whether an idea is sound engineering or not. They are just determining whether it is new or novel.
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
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The patent office doesn't judge whether an idea is sound engineering or not. They are just determining whether it is new or novel.
Yes, that's what I thought. It might actually be easier to obtain a patent on something that just doesn't work: The more absurd it is, the more "inventive" -- i.e. "one skilled in the art" would never have thought of it... ;)
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Yes. Patents are not scientific publications. They are just meant to protect a form of intellectual property. Such property can include ideas that are unpractical, stupid, or dangerous.
Just for fun: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html)
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Here's a joke:
Is it me or am I reading words that are not there.
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/
shun ya ta "Shun you thank you"
Cable: Oh no 16 gauge coaxial, VTX™ geometry, FEP dielectric, silver-plated braided shielding
Termination: Shun ya ta Research RCA connectors
I don't remember coming across this amount of BS claims before in such a short paragraph:
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere :bullshit: — at any price. :bullshit: Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement :bullshit: and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. :blah: Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science :bullshit: , Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies :bullshit: that sets the standard for quality :bullshit: and performance in the cable industry. :bullshit:
Does not exist anywhere. Of course it does in their heads and there seem to be many of them about.
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The patent office doesn't judge whether an idea is sound engineering or not. They are just determining whether it is new or novel.
However, The USPTO does reputedly require a functional model of any proposed "perpetual motion" device/scheme/machine.
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I'm reporting these fuckers to trading standards:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/regulation/5/made (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1277/regulation/5/made)
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Why are there so many of these audiophool companies ?
Because the profit margins are so large, perhaps?
Forgive me for missing if your question was entirely facetious :-+
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This is not the main cause IMO. The main reason companies in general are founded is not because there are potentially large margins, otherwise there wouldn't be many companies created at all... (don't have the figures at hand but companies with say margins >= 80% are a pretty small percentage of all companies).
The main reason is that there are potential customers.
One thing to consider though is that at least, these audiophool products are usually of good build quality. Of course they are mostly bullshit when it comes to what the company claims and are grossly overpriced, but they are still quality products. I'm sure these cables for instance are made to last. Customers willing to shell out large amounts of money are often a pain to deal with - so if any of the products you sell have early failures and/or you have bad customer service, you won't last for very long.
In other words and as I personally see it, the "audiophool industry" is mostly a way some clever businessmen have found to make a business in audio very profitable while just selling basic quality products. As the hi-fi demand has declined overall (as I remember we have discussed in another thread), audio companies now have to find ways to sell some people what would have been called "hi-fi" a few decades ago, adding the phool factor to convince them. The reason IMO being that a large majority of people now can't make a difference between a quality audio product and a cheap MP3 player, and don't even care. So the "hi-fi" factor is not enough anymore to attract them. I guess you now have to resort to black magic arguments to convince them and get some market share.
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One thing to consider though is that at least, these audiophool products are usually of good build quality. Of course they are mostly bullshit when it comes to what the company claims and are grossly overpriced, but they are still quality products. I'm sure these cables for instance are made to last. Customers willing to shell out large amounts of money are often a pain to deal with - so if any of the products you sell have early failures and/or you have bad customer service, you won't last for very long.
That's not true at all. Usually build quality is dubious and not certified for safety and EMC.
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I have examined some overpriced cables which didn't even have a solid mechanical join between the wire and the connector; betting on high quality construction can be hit-or-miss.
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(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=612046;image)
I wonder if this is the kind of stuff that Einstein used to pour over.
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Money laundering.
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Standard length of cable is 1 metre.
Besides all the marketing BS, I also like the fact that whoever falls for this non-sense will pay much more than the advertised £2,000. After all, once you need a 50ohm coax cable for audio, you often need more than just 1m.
£10,000 for 5-meters anybody? Or maybe sales will give you a 30% discount and you'll feel extremely lucky to only pay £7,000.
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£10,000 for 5-meters anybody? Or maybe sales will give you a 30% discount and you'll feel extremely lucky to only pay £7,000.
I could make one of those myself.
Just buy or use some bog standard 50 ohm cable, mesh braiding, washers, heat shrink, I got the tools and put them on myself.
Spacing the washes and keeping them in place might be a bit tricky and I would have find some round see throught cover and glue them and then thread it through the cable.
I was thinking about that ridiculous paragraph.
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution.
Design execution with their technical terminologies to attract audiophools.
that simply does not exist elsewhere.
Not in the normal shops I got to for the least.
Oh I have seen them on Ebay and Amazon.
— at any price.
Any normal sane person won't buy it any price.
Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations
that appeals to the audiophool.
with objective measurement
Knowing how far they can stretch the terminology and bs to attract as many fools as they can through the trendy, pretty, fancy wording and pictures.
and an artisan’s eye for construction quality.
Using bog standard coax connectors, mesh braiding, a bit of heat shrinking, washers and a see through cover.
Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science,
I guess the object here is the audiophool and the science behind it is the brainwashing that goes into as the audiopools who buy these things spare no expense believing the claims and terminology.
Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies that sets the standard for quality and performance in the cable industry.
An array of marketing bs and terminology to encourage more to the flourishing industry of these scams and to attract all the other fools out there.
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All of those poor, ignorant recording studios like Abbey Road and Westlake have been putting out sub-standard audio recordings for all these years because they aren’t using this cutting edge tech in their facilities when they make the recordings in the first place. Imagine how much better everything would sound if those studios would only invest half a billion dollars each to upgrade every piece of wiring throughout their facilities with proper audiophile cabling!
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All of those poor, ignorant recording studios like Abbey Road and Westlake have been putting out sub-standard audio recordings for all these years because they aren’t using this cutting edge tech in their facilities when they make the recordings in the first place. Imagine how much better everything would sound if those studios would only invest half a billion dollars each to upgrade every piece of wiring throughout their facilities with proper audiophile cabling!
I like that.
Playing the Phool.
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From the same phools
(https://shunyata-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/dfss_cable-1200x800.jpg)
"The most significant advance applied to the DF-SS is the wide band cable suspension bridge, designed to support any cable, power or signal, while dissipating vibrational energy through the purposefully tensioned polymer band. The second innovation is the energy-absorbing granular compound that fills the base of the DF-SS. This compound formulation absorbs floor borne energy that would otherwise couple to the cable, causing signal degradation. These combined technologies define the DF-SS as the most technically advanced cable suspension system on the market.
To prove the DF-SS efficacy, Shunyata will be publishing Accelerometer test results with the DF-SS, indicating the level of isolation they provide from floor borne vibration, common to all sound system environments."
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/accessories/df-ss-cable-elevator/ (https://shunyata-uk.com/product/accessories/df-ss-cable-elevator/)
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From the same phools
"The most significant advance applied to the DF-SS is the wide band cable suspension bridge, designed to support any cable, power or signal, while dissipating vibrational energy through the purposefully tensioned polymer band. The second innovation is the energy-absorbing granular compound that fills the base of the DF-SS. This compound formulation absorbs floor borne energy that would otherwise couple to the cable, causing signal degradation. These combined technologies define the DF-SS as the most technically advanced cable suspension system on the market.
So the base is filled with sand, I hope they're not using Monazite sands, the radiation will denature the cables...
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What the fuck? :palm:
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I think this video by someone who seems to specialize in reviewing Knives and Watches says it all...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOuJhZToAE0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOuJhZToAE0)
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reviewing Knives
His video would be 20,000 times better if he had an accident with those knives and chopped his hands off. I stuck it out for 14 seconds before preferring to remain unenlightened.
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"The most significant advance applied to the DF-SS is the wide band cable suspension bridge, designed to support any cable, power or signal, while dissipating vibrational energy through the purposefully tensioned polymer band. The second innovation is the energy-absorbing granular compound that fills the base of the DF-SS. This compound formulation absorbs floor borne energy that would otherwise couple to the cable, causing signal degradation. These combined technologies define the DF-SS as the most technically advanced cable suspension system on the market.
Wow these people piss me off to an extent I cannot even bring to words. Shunyata and the like are just professional con-artists and they should be criminally charged for what they are doing.
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reviewing Knives
His video would be 20,000 times better if he had an accident with those knives and chopped his hands off. I stuck it out for 14 seconds before preferring to remain unenlightened.
Kind of annoying but there's no content other than his hands and the coiled up cables so play the video and flick to another browser tab
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I have a stack of those cables (minus the wank) sitting in a box. They've had plenty of "burn-in" time in the back of a Sky News OB van. Hmmm....
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From the same phools
(https://shunyata-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/dfss_cable-1200x800.jpg)
"The most significant advance applied to the DF-SS is the wide band cable suspension bridge, designed to support any cable, power or signal, while dissipating vibrational energy through the purposefully tensioned polymer band. The second innovation is the energy-absorbing granular compound that fills the base of the DF-SS. This compound formulation absorbs floor borne energy that would otherwise couple to the cable, causing signal degradation. These combined technologies define the DF-SS as the most technically advanced cable suspension system on the market.
To prove the DF-SS efficacy, Shunyata will be publishing Accelerometer test results with the DF-SS, indicating the level of isolation they provide from floor borne vibration, common to all sound system environments."
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/accessories/df-ss-cable-elevator/ (https://shunyata-uk.com/product/accessories/df-ss-cable-elevator/)
The BS in there is even worse than the other one.
"The most significant advance applied to the DF-SS is the wide band cable suspension bridge :bullshit:, designed to support any cable :blah:, power or signal :blah:, while dissipating vibrational energy through the purposefully tensioned polymer band :bullshit:. The second innovation is the energy-absorbing granular compound :bullshit: that fills the base of the DF-SS :bullshit:. This compound formulation absorbs floor borne energy :bullshit: that would otherwise couple to the cable :bullshit:, causing signal degradation :bullshit:. These combined technologies define the DF-SS as the most technically advanced cable suspension system :bullshit: on the market :bullshit:.
To prove the DF-SS efficacy, Shunyata will be publishing Accelerometer test results with the DF-SS :blah: indicating the level of isolation they provide :bullshit: from floor borne vibration :bullshit:, common to all sound system environments. :bullshit:"
Haven't they ever heard of fibre cables?
I can't find any fibre cables on their site.
Here's a joke:
– Static-Neutralizing Polymer
Yes dark field suspension system all plastic with NO GROUND.
– Vibration Absorbing Compound (internally)
Made of what, magic?
– Polymer Cable Suspension Bridge
Where the cables can fall off like in the picture or it snaps.
– Vibration Absorbing Feet for hard surfaces
And thick rubber sound insulation or evem thick underlay isn't as good.
– Patented design
They must be very proud of themselves as nobody would want to copy it anyway.
– Wide Foundation (won’t tip or fall)
where you'd trip over it.
– Unequaled Shunyata Build Quality
They did a bad job trying to make it look like a couple of pyramids.
APPLICATIONS
Can be used to support speaker cables or power cables. Elevates them off the floor.
So can some soft rubber cables and a bit of trunking without the trip hazard.
Oh look they're selling USB 2 cables 1.5m for £2000 with that washer thing on it:
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/digital-cables/sigma-usb/
(https://shunyata-uk.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/sigma-usb-coiled-1800x1200-1024x683.jpg)
Regardless of retail price :blah:, Shunyata Research’s Sigma USB cable resides at the top of its performance class :bullshit: due to Shunyata’s unique design :bullshit: , hand-craftsmanship :bullshit: and patent-pending technology. :bullshit: A primary design attribute of the Sigma USB is its expensive 100% coverage silver-braided shield :blah: , eliminating exposure to sources of near field noise radiation :blah: . Shunyata’s proprietary Precision Matched Z conductors eliminate wire incongruities that would otherwise distort high-speed signal transfer :bullshit:. Sigma USB also sports the finest CCC silver wire and FEP dielectrics to further reduce internal distortions :blah:. Taking USB design and performance where it’s never been before is Sigma USB’s unique Patent-Pending TAP (Transverse Axial Polarizer) , which preserves signal timing by reducing inductive field energy. :blah: Finishing the Sigma USB design are hand-applied custom-manufactured connectors developed to eliminate junction related distortions inherent in standard USB cable designs :bullshit: . The material and scientific advances within the Sigma USB demonstrate why it has received universal praise :bullshit: and endorsement from those who have compared it to USB cables costing two to three times the Sigma’s price. :bullshit:
I have yet to see one, two to three times the price of that.
Universal praise From whom?
The phools of themselves?
Compared it how?
They possibly mean that because it looks good from the picture it gets universally praised on comparisons.
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so play the video and flick to another browser tab
What's the point of the video then? If he can't be arsed to type in text content I can't be arsed to waste my time listening to him.
It's a bad trend. The tendency now is to run off a 1 hour video when a couple of pages of text would be MUCH better. I can skim text, search it easily, etc. With video it's basically saying "Your attention is all mine until the end. Every time." Sod that.
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so play the video and flick to another browser tab
What's the point of the video then? If he can't be arsed to type in text content I can't be arsed to waste my time listening to him.
It's a bad trend. The tendency now is to run off a 1 hour video when a couple of pages of text would be MUCH better. I can skim text, search it easily, etc. With video it's basically saying "Your attention is all mine until the end. Every time." Sod that.
Fair enough, don't watch it then. There's not much/anything in it that we don't know but he has pretty much the same bee in his bonnet about audiophool cables that we do.
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I saw the video.
I think this video by someone who seems to specialize in reviewing Knives and Watches says it all...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOuJhZToAE0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOuJhZToAE0)
"by trying to sell them super like stupidly expensive cables..."
"They also sell stupid cables too. They sell you know these super high end you know with all these fancy boxes and shielding and cables that are this freaking thick they connect to dvd play to your dv..."
blind testing:
"That is a way where you test scientifically whether there is a difference here. Nobody freaking does this with speaker cables because the speaker cable companies hate it because it shows that there is no freaking difference here..."
"There is however dumber depths that they have probed. They sell expensive power cables... The miles and miles of cable in your household to your expensive cable to the power plant that's not expensive either so that's not helping you either."
Take a look a this:
SIGMA NR UK £3300 for 1.75metre
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/power-cables/sigma-nr-uk/ (https://shunyata-uk.com/product/power-cables/sigma-nr-uk/)
(https://i.imgur.com/NAmMftc.jpg)
Wire:
OFE 6 gauge, VTX™ geometry.
Now THAT'S a special kind of stupid.
Forget about every other one of their claims. It is so big it's ridiculous. I could see it pulling against and causing damage to the sockets and the appliance with it so big and dangling out there and those pins and the connector so tiny compared to the cable.
That has got to be one of the worst out there for audiophoolery.
No mains cable needs to be that big for much less than a 13a load.
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Thanks for the precis, MrNobodies :-+
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NEC in the US says a #6 wire can safely carry 55 to 75 amps, depending on the temperature rating. The worst, 60C rated wire can do 55 amps. So what exactly are these morons trying to claim this way oversized wiring is doing for you? Reducing the voltage drop? Like the many feet of #12 or #14 from the outlet back to the breaker doesn't have more effect than the short wire from the outlet to the equipment. I almost feel sorry for the idiots who fall for this crap. ALMOST.
Oh wait, 3 wires bundled in a cable longer than 24 inches must be derated to 80%. So that's STILL 44 amps. Still ridiculous. Still does absolutely nothing.
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I found a video of one of their plugs from their Youtube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrEvv8UQcQc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrEvv8UQcQc)
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It disappoints me that comments are disabled :-DD
Check this bollocks out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXwRTzJZ7Y0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXwRTzJZ7Y0)
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I see they shun comments and ratings.
I was looking at their videos and comparing the ratings and views as the CopperConn video had the ratings turned on
They turned the ratings off to start with on their first couple of videos and maybe forgot to turn them off for a while up until 2015.
ShunYaTa Research videos
The Inside Story
Published on 21 Mar 2012
5,519 views
Ratings disabled
Philosophy, People & Products
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13,191 views
Ratings disabled
ΞTRON® Demonstration
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13,648 views
Ratings disabled
Shunyata Research: TYPHON Electrical Characteristics
Published on 24 Jan 2014
2,597 views
up: 8
Down: 7
Custom Parts Materials
Published on 30 Jul 2014
4,589 views
up: 19
Down: 6
STIS Interchangeable Terminals
Published on 30 Jul 2014
2,204 views
up: 8
down: 2
Hubbell SR-Z1 Outlets
Published on 30 Jul 2014
5,517 views
up: 18
down: 6
DTCD™ Concept
Published on 30 Jul 2014
3,952 views
up: 21
down: 5
DPC-6 Noise Test
Published on 30 Jul 2014
5,878 views
up: 19
Down: 7
CopperCONN™ Connectors
Published on 30 Jul 2014
3,741 views
up: 13
Down: 9
Shunyata Research Introduction
Published on 30 Jul 2014
4,702 views
up: 8
Down: 2
HYDRA DPC-6
Published on 1 Aug 2014
3,607 views
up: 8
Down: 4
CCI™ Concept
Published on 11 Aug 2014
4,267 views
up: 10
Down: 5
Reducing Noise Levels in Electrophysiology Medical Procedures
Published on 4 Dec 2015
4,143 views
Ratings disabled
DENALI Series - Controlling Vibration
Published on 22 Aug 2016
3,708 views
Ratings disabled
DENALI Series - Design and Technology
Published on 22 Aug 2016
3,874 views
Ratings disabled
DTCD and ASCC Demonstration
Published on 22 Aug 2016
3,960 views
Ratings disabled
DENALI Series - Noise Reduction Demonstration
Published on 23 Aug 2016
6,846 views
Ratings disabled
DENALI Series Power Conditioner Introduction
Published on 23 Aug 2016
4,611 views
Ratings disabled
Reducing Noise Levels in Electrophysiology Medical Procedures
Published on 16 Nov 2016
496 views
Ratings disabled
Entech Versus Alpha Labs Noise Detectors
Published on 27 Mar 2018
313 views
Ratings disabled
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From my local audio store:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=625750;image)
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Richer Sounds?
When I used to buy HiFi kit in there years ago we'd take up three hours to buy a cheap amp and then scam them out of some free cable :-DD
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Really curious if do a blind test on these goons with aluminium cable vs the full copper one.
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£16.50 for 50M of cable is a pretty good deal, I'd buy that and just ignore the audiophool bollocks
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£16.50 for 50M of cable is a pretty good deal, I'd buy that and just ignore the audiophool bollocks
I don't see polarity marking on it (unless it's on the other side). Anyway, before buying I'd check gauge.
Rumors say there are Chinese cables made of non-copper metal, but coated with thin copper layer. I'd stay away from them.
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That whole hi-end audio is a lost battle. No matter what you buy as equipment it is never going to be as good as the real thing.
Real audio purists just hire the artist to play live for them, preferably renting places like Sydney opera hall as a venue, but not before flooding the place with using imported air from the Swiss Alps. Oh, and don't forget to clean your ears using hand picked cotton wound around a mahogany stick dipped in Fijian spring water.
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AKDL1
It's the classic - I've not seen anyone top it - it's the only such thing (obvious audiophoolery) I've seen by a "real" brand name (Denon), so I suppose it was more trolling than anything else. It has hundreds of positive and amazing (as in completely over-the-top) reviews on Amazon, including at least one by a former starship officer. It was a bargain for audiophool cables at only $500.
It's interesting that the first google hit is a "Bulk Power Cord Wire" manufacturer - at least someone knows how to do SEO "right."
Unfortunately, the infamous Amazon page for it is gone (it came out over 10 years ago), but surely all those reviews are saved in archive.org or somewhere on the web.
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Seems to me like the audiophool subculture would be a good candidate for some research to be done on them and it.
There is A LOT OF research being done in that area. Shuntayo is one of those researchers :) They are reserching ways to rob people thousands of dollars and have the victim thank them and shake their hands afterwards. If that's not cutting edge research and skill, then I don't know what is :-//
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(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/audiophool-2-000-00-bnc-cable/?action=dlattach;attach=611674;image)
Just the thing for my Mono Pole Subminiture Flux Capacitor.
However, It's taken me nearly thirty years and my entire family fortune.
So £2,000 is totally out of the question.
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AKDL1
...
Unfortunately, the infamous Amazon page for it is gone (it came out over 10 years ago), but surely all those reviews are saved in archive.org or somewhere on the web.
Here we go, saved on the UK site. Fortunately, most commenters just went along with the game and make HUGELY over-the-top descriptions of this cable:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Discontinued-Manufacturer-Blue/dp/B000I1X6PM (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Discontinued-Manufacturer-Blue/dp/B000I1X6PM)
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I didn't think expensive cables are worth it until I bought my first VNA.
Those cable crafters can do something good to the society by applying their handcraft technique and patience on making high end RF cables.
It's a shame that good workmanship is poured to unnecessary marketing snake oil things.
There is no craftmanship in that crap. Most of those are worse than good non BS cable, at least from mechanical perspective. And many of them are worse than decent cheap cable.
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Rumors say there are Chinese cables made of non-copper metal, but coated with thin copper layer. I'd stay away from them.
That's not rumor. I accidentally bought some of that crap. It copper clad aluminium. There is just enough copper to give it some colour and for the solder to stick to, but only once. It's uncanny. The wire once tinned will no longer be solderable.
I still have some of it and use it for non critical stuff.
But you know what the funny part is? I bought it as audio cable. :-DD
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Oh, but they also sell an RCA cable with the same "technology" for twice as much:
https://shunyata-uk.com/product/analog-cables/sigma-rca/
:-DD
From the website:
£4,000.00
Sigma Series cables showcase technological innovation and design execution that simply does not exist elsewhere — at any price. Sigma Series cables combine meaningful parts innovations with objective measurement and an artisan’s eye for construction quality. Unlike many cost-no-object cable products that have little in the way of discernible science, Sigma Series products incorporate an array of definable technologies that sets the standard for quality and performance in the cable industry.
Price is per pair of interconnect cables.
Standard length of each cable is 1 metre.
Please contact us for custom lengths.
All prices include VAT.
The RCA cables are sold in pairs, so the price per cable is the same.
£4,000.00 for one cable would be unreasonable, apparently £2,000.00 is okay!! ;)
Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
Hilarious.
Why do people fall for this stuff? :palm:
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Why do people fall for this stuff? :palm:
Their customers don't have knowledge that we have. My music teacher asked me my opinion if hand-wired guitar amplifiers are any better than mass-produced amp assembled on PCBs. And that's good, he has critical thinking and didn't fall into "it's more expensive, it must be better" or "hand-made electronics should better, like custom-shop guitar vs stock guitar".
This makes me thinking where are gaps in my knowledge. It's impossible to be an expert in everything.
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While I agree that there is much "audiophoolery" going on, I would not be so generically dismissive.
I am not an easy person to impress or convince. But I have had the privilege to audition top of the top audio equipment in setups that were fully planned up to the decoration of the specifically designated room.
It was generally an overwhelming experience to listen to music tracks I was already familiar with and which had been recorded to high standards (Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon or Arne Domnerus - Jazz At The Pawnshop). The sound quality was brilliant to my fairly trained ears.
My comments are:
1) There is a high standard of audio equipment, which is not met by any modern consumer product of the iPod, iPhone, Bose, Beats Pill, etc.) These consumer products may be clever for internet based streaming of highly compressed music and Bluetooth, etc., but their sound quality is poor. You don't need to have special hearing or audio training to immediatly understand the difference. A simple test hooking a good CD vs. an iPhone to a propper amplifier and speakers is more than enough.
2) You can get pertty good and amazing audio buy buying some vintage amplifier and speaker from the 70ies, 80ies and to some extend 90ies. With 200-300 Euro you can purchase a amazing second hand setup. But if you want to go the extra step, if you have an extra room and the money, hell yes, you can go much better. It will cost 4 ot 5 figures, though.
3) Once you spent 10.000 Euro or 100.000 Euro in a dream audio setup, you might as well decorate the room properly and why not buy some good quality AND GOOD LOOKING CABLES?
It's basically the same as buying designer Nike shoes for thousands of US$, when you can buy a similar model for 100 US$.
Or why buy a 1000 Euro premium smartphone if you can buy a Xiaomi smartphone pretty much as good for 200 Euro?
What sense does it make to buy a 5000 Euro valve amplifier and connect it to 8000 Euro speakers with a 20 Euro cable?
The logic is sometimes not the best way to reason...
Regards,
Vitor
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...
Hilarious.
Why do people fall for this stuff? :palm:
And why do people post a comment two years later?
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While I agree that there is much "audiophoolery" going on, I would not be so generically dismissive.
I am not an easy person to impress or convince. But I have had the privilege to audition top of the top audio equipment in setups that were fully planned up to the decoration of the specifically designated room.
It was generally an overwhelming experience to listen to music tracks I was already familiar with and which had been recorded to high standards (Pink Floyd - The Dark Side of the Moon or Arne Domnerus - Jazz At The Pawnshop). The sound quality was brilliant to my fairly trained ears.
My comments are:
1) There is a high standard of audio equipment, which is not met by any modern consumer product of the iPod, iPhone, Bose, Beats Pill, etc.) These consumer products may be clever for internet based streaming of highly compressed music and Bluetooth, etc., but their sound quality is poor. You don't need to have special hearing or audio training to immediatly understand the difference. A simple test hooking a good CD vs. an iPhone to a propper amplifier and speakers is more than enough.
2) You can get pertty good and amazing audio buy buying some vintage amplifier and speaker from the 70ies, 80ies and to some extend 90ies. With 200-300 Euro you can purchase a amazing second hand setup. But if you want to go the extra step, if you have an extra room and the money, hell yes, you can go much better. It will cost 4 ot 5 figures, though.
3) Once you spent 10.000 Euro or 100.000 Euro in a dream audio setup, you might as well decorate the room properly and why not buy some good quality AND GOOD LOOKING CABLES?
It's basically the same as buying designer Nike shoes for thousands of US$, when you can buy a similar model for 100 US$.
Or why buy a 1000 Euro premium smartphone if you can buy a Xiaomi smartphone pretty much as good for 200 Euro?
What sense does it make to buy a 5000 Euro valve amplifier and connect it to 8000 Euro speakers with a 20 Euro cable?
The logic is sometimes not the best way to reason...
Regards,
Vitor
I agree with most of your points here, and the 3/ is what I also keep saying. This is just like any other luxury business.
If people were only looking for pure utility, luxury wouldn't sell a single product.
Now what many engineers hate with all this are the technical lies that are used to sell. As engineers, we want to tell the whole world when we see claims that are blatantly idiotic.
As to you 1/, I also agree. Debunking technical lies is good, but unfortunately all this audiophoolery debunking trend tends to make people believe any cheap crap is going to be as good as decent high-end audio device. This just isn't true, and expectations from many people have sunk rather low as we keep feeding them lossy compressed crap in cheap earphones and atrocious speakers. So there's bound to be a reasonable middle ground there.