Bad/bloated web design

[MrMobodies]

Do you find that a lot of modern web design becomes a bit too much that is claustrophobic?

Take a look at https://www.scan.co.uk/
It is becoming to a point now that they are meddling with contrast effects on parts of the page and it is hurting my eyes.
After every search it goes from dark to light.
It does nothing but hides what I am looking at.
Amazon did that and I added the element to the block list but it doesn't work well with Scan.
If I remove the element it goes away but add it to Adblock and the page disappears.

I wanted to look around for some ATX power supplies but already I got a headache just after a couple of minutes.

The only reason I started to use Adblock is kill this kind of thing and the suggestions or anything that pops out and annoys but I think that is a good example.
I only use Fanboy's list of annoyances.

Check out the second image when I turn off Adblock with some of the other rubbish I hid.
Like that description and "Add to Basket" bar is so much more important that about 1/5 no sorry 1/6th of top the area is taken up over the contents whilst serving as a distraction.

[MrMobodies]

I have switched off Javascript to see what would happen and it looks a lot better and no flashing.
I didn't expect it to work or be able to search.

Now I can see what I am doing.

Not sure if the checkout will work.

Do you think I am being too fussy?

[Whales]

Not at all.

There are no working negative feedback loops between users and sites.  Voltage offsets.  They can claim to care about users, but really all they give a damn about is looking fashionable and earning money.

More than a decade ago we had the popup apocalypse, a situation so poor that browser vendors actually started blocking those things.  Then advertising became menace (malware, animation, slowing pages, privacy) so whole civilisation of ad blockers was born. 

Now we're in the age javascript abominations.  When you write a plain HTML page:  adding javascript and CSS can only make it harder to read from there.  A good designer knows this and uses restraint.   Flashy bars, narrow text columns, "lightbox" interactions (where the page gets darkened), pages that don't scroll like every other page, low-contrast font-background colour pairs and ten things to click through before your get to the page.

I thought that the <blink> and <marquee> tags were dead because they were annoying, now we're just found more evolved ways of preventing people from using your page.



If I can't read your shitty website then I'm the only person left that can fix it. 

(1) I browse most websites with JS disabled (via the exten Ublock Origin).    This decrapifies a good 50% of sites.

(2) For those that refuse to work without JS: I use my own home-grown extension to disable CSS when I hit Shift+Alt+A.  Often a website flat-out refuses to unhide itself until the javascript executes, this fixes it with a single keypress and no other effort on my part.

Google AMP pages are an interesting example of this, where the CSS intentionally hides the page for (11?) seconds or until JS executes. 

This same key shortcut also fixes sites that use fixed-width text columns.  I can tolerate some of this, but on a widescreen monitor I hate having to scroll every 3 paragraphs to read your news article.  Especially when the whole article fits on one screen after I disable your CSS.


(3) Then there are the websites that are still shite and demand JS to do anything.

If I don't visit that site often: my Shift+Alt+A CSS disabler is useful.  I also have a second shortcut (Shift+Alt+X) that simply disables "position:absolute" elements (bits of the page that don't move when you scroll, like header bars) and fixed-width text; so I can keep most of the website's layout and theming intact.

If it's a website I visit often then I occasionally write proper CSS fixes and use the "Stylus" addon make them permanent.  On youtube I completely de-pad (shrink) the search bar, and prevent it from following me as I scroll down the page:




Anyway, I'll stop rambling.  If anyone is interested in my key-shortcut addon I can upload it to the Firefox addons website (it might work on Chrome too).

[Nominal Animal]

I browse most websites with JS disabled

I've used NoScript and Adblock+/uBlock Origin for over a decade now.

Whenever I see what others are used to seeing, it reminds me that I could not do that. It's not a matter of "just accepting it as it is" for me: the choice is either I use the tools to filter the extraneous noise to an acceptable level, or I won't use web at all.

While I am not a graphic designer (I don't have the "eye" for that), I have worked with really good ones to build websites and web-based tools, and actually know a lot about the technical/scientific side of the user interface design (as in actual research and findings, not just opinions). I am tempted to start a rant how even this "use a separate box to post a comment, clicking preview to see how it'd look like" is a horrible easy hack that people have just gotten used to, while there are much better ways to implement it.  But, because most peoples' response is a shrug, or maybe "I don't mind", I'll quiet down now.

[bd139]

I write web apps a lot of the time. I have done since the web appeared in the 1990s.

I have seen a massive decline in front end quality in the last decade and you know why?

Sometimes stuff is actually just done and people have a fear of that. Once it's done they're of no value.

Thus the "never done" attitude is what happens. Thus what do you do to something that is done? Shovel more features into it. Next thing you know your web site looks like an Indian train, except less useful.



And on top of that there are predators everywhere. These predators come in two forms:

1. The marketers.
2. The framework pushers.

The marketers want your entire web site to look like the depiction in Futurama:



The framework pushers are the real criminals. These guys want to sell you a product ecosystem and training which gives you magical powers. Unfortunately they are literally selling you a lock in which costs your business a lot of money when you need to step outside the box for a moment or the ivory tower framework pimps have sold up and moved to a beach somewhere. While you're using it your customers are paying for the crimes in data volume, abysmal performance.

If you have to break the browser to make a site usable then the site is broken.

[jc101]

On the scan website, if you reduce the width of the browser window the ad's at the side vanish.  I've found that quite handy when using their site and does save the eyes.

[kosine]

I think a big part of the problem is that there's a lot of artistic people out there, but not that many jobs requiring pure art. So a lot of them end up as "designers" of some sort.

[Whales]

I think a big part of the problem is that there's a lot of artistic people out there, but not that many jobs requiring pure art. So a lot of them end up as "designers" of some sort.

Bad websites are not artistic at all.

If you put some love into a website: most people will tell you it's ugly.  So instead people try to make their sites look like everyone else's.

A revealing quote: "How is reddit so successful when the site is so ugly?".  That was, of course, before it changed to be Facebook a few months back.

[The Soulman]

Another fine example:

http://www.musictribe.com/

They are probably the biggest player in the pro audio business and have hundreds if not thousands of products under different brands.
Good luck finding the product you are looking for. 

[cdev]

They should do whatever they need to do in the most standards conformal way possible and anything that involves dynamic content, Javascript or plug-ins should degrade gracefully so that you don't have nothing appear if the user has disabled that capability. Also every page should have a unique and meaningful title and descriptive meta-data, not generic text that's repeated over and over on every page in the site.

[SilverSolder]

My pet peeve with modern web design is that it doesn't make good use of screen space...   eBay can only just about manage four listings on a 24" monitor, for example...   the rest is white space.  Seriously? ...

[BravoV]

For sure, at the desktop style (not mobile) web, some nasty ones can even bring down a modern powerful desktop multiple cores CPU, down to it's knee for 1st few seconds just to render the page, seen from CPU utilization chart.

It feels like the browser acting like a CAD application rendering a complex 3D view even its just a 2D.

[cdev]

There must be something 'wrong' with those web pages. Crypto-currency mining javascripts, perhaps?

Its time to return to the basics. "Hey, you, get off of the cloud".

[MrMobodies]

I am please I am not the only one.

What I have noticed is that a few websites allow their fixed headers to be closed.
Like Archive.org
Google maps with the collapsible side pane.
Cisco with the toggle button.
I made a complaint years ago to Apple about some silly white space on their boards and now have a close button.
A button that doesn't get in the way of the contents and it gives the user a choice like they would have absolute positioning whilst achieving the tablet touch only input issue from something read: "Why do we force tablet users to scroll to the top" on fixed headers.

Not at all.

There are no working negative feedback loops between users and sites.  Voltage offsets.  They can claim to care about users, but really all they give a damn about is looking fashionable and earning money.

More than a decade ago we had the popup apocalypse, a situation so poor that browser vendors actually started blocking those things.  Then advertising became menace (malware, animation, slowing pages, privacy) so whole civilisation of ad blockers was born. 

Yes I use to spend all night on customers things uninstalling dodgy browser toolbars and remove the registry keys manually because they wouldn't uninstall properly and all the hidden "services" that it put it there alongside other things. Not all of them were picked up by their malware detectors. Some were even rootkit based.

Now the toolbars are embedded on web pages.

I am left with that Bookmark killer by Alisdair McDiarmid and some fixed header killer extensions.

This is a good extension on Chrome to manage the fixed headers on Youtube but doesn't seem to always work like on some websites as they base the contents on a fixed pane which it kills and the functionality. Fixed header hider fixer:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sticky-header-hider-aka-f/eagncneohcoiofhknkofdobphnhgblad
You can set websites whether to leave/kill or restore fixed headers in the position that they appear.
It isn't perfect but it is good enough for Youtube.

For youtube I got rid of the shadows (the darkening of top and bottom) when I want to seek back and forwards which I do a lot, the spinning thing and what's up next.

I add these to Adblock which gives such a better experience with the Youtube player and no interference:
You also need to Untick allow intrusive advertising for it to work.

youtube.com##.ytp-gradient-bottom
youtube.com##.ytp-gradient-top
youtube.com##.ytp-tooltip-bg
youtube.com##.ytp-play-button ytp-button
youtube.com##.ytp-bezel
youtube.com##.ytp-spinner
youtube.com##.ytp-title-link yt-uix-sessionlink
youtube.com##div#theater-background.player-height
youtube.com##.ytp-chrome-top
youtube.com##.ytp-share-button-visible
youtube.com##.inner-text
youtube.com##.annotation.annotation-type-text
youtube.com##.annotation-shape.annotation-popup-shape.annotation-type-text

Here are others that rid off some of the annoyances if you get annoyed too by them:
Just rename the co.uk to match your domain.

google.co.uk###sbse0
google.co.uk###sbse1
google.co.uk###sbse2
google.co.uk###sbse3
google.co.uk###sbse4
google.co.uk###sbse5
google.co.uk###sbse6
google.co.uk###sbse7
google.co.uk###sbse8
google.co.uk###sbse9
google.co.uk###sbse10
google.co.uk###sbse11
google.co.uk###sbse12

amazon.co.uk###suggestions
amazon.co.uk###suggestions-template
amazon.co.uk###nav-flyout-iss-anchor
amazon.co.uk###miniATFUDP
amazon.co.uk##nav-flyout-anchor
amazon.co.uk###huc-v2-order-row-with-divider
amazon.co.uk##.a-row.huc-v2-pinned-order-row-with-divider
amazon.co.uk###huc-v2-order-row-placeholder
amazon.co.uk##.a-row.huc-v2-order-row

ebay.co.uk###nav-bar
ebay.co.uk###lkd_hdr
ebay.co.uk###gAC

amazon.co.uk##nav-flyout-iss-anchor
amazon.co.uk##nav-flyout-searchAjax
amazon.co.uk###miniATFUDP

dailymotion.com##.np_icon
dailymotion.com##.np_darken
dailymotion.com##.np_transition

Dailymail.co.uk##.floating-buttons
bbc.co.uk###bbccookies

The elements above I can do without as they are not essential in functionality like that Basket and purchase bar on Ebay and Amazon unless they remove them from the usual places.

[Ranayna]

Somewhat related side note:
https://security.googleblog.com/2018/10/announcing-some-security-treats-to.html

No Google login without JavaScript enabled anymore.

[IanMacdonald]

The problems with websites are basically the same problems that other programs suffer - Bloat arises though the use of a monster library to perform a simple function. Multiply that by a few simple functions, each using a different monster library, and you have hundreds of MB of code displaying 1kB of text.

The security issues arise the same way, since each monster library contains numerous coding bugs that hackers can exploit.

The security issues in turn mean constant patching and updating, or else your site gets hacked.

The constant patching  makes it risky to do anything unconventional, even to use documented features that are not often used, because the next patch may break those features. Thus, people tend to stick to mainstream features, and as a consequence all websites start to look and behave alike. (75% of the Web now uses WordPress)

That, and the libraries are way too complex for the average coder to understand the workings of, so webdesigners become 'appliance users'  just blindly pushing buttons and hoping they have the desired effect.  If they need to add a feature, their only recourse is to search at random for one that's been written already.

This exacerbates the problem of bad visitor experiences, because the way the website works is no longer even determined by its owner, but by some remote code library maintainer. The library maintainer being completely out of touch with end-user feedback. (The 'image slider' craze is a typical example, every visitor loathes these flickering, flashing, jumping distractions, every WordPress theme has one regardless.)

Though, if you do decide to code your own, you hit a really insidious problem in that there is no proper standard for the settings on webhosts. PHP in particular suffers from the problem that the php.ini settings vary from one host to another, and this can completely break a program even though it was coded to exactly follow the instructions in the PHP manual. Worse,the webhost can prevent you from changing the settings too, so you can't even correct the problem. The PHP creators basically should have not allowed this situation to develop. Instead they should have determined how PHP would work, and made that apply universally.

You can see here whence the reliance on code libraries and databases arises. If you can't trust any given PHP code to work, you use WordPress or whatever big-box product, because the WP coders have done the donkey-work of  finding out which functions they can safely use on most webhosts. It then befalls on you, like it or loathe it, to store your pages in a database instead of in files. That is because MySQL is more predictable in terms of settings consistency than PHP. Unfortunately MySQL and its variants are absolute, utter crap when it comes to security... and this is the area where most of the vulns arise.

[Red Squirrel]

I absolutely can't stand modern web design.  Way too much overuse of javascript, too many popup and "interactive" crap that just makes the experience terrible.  The thing that makes me immediately leave a site is modals, I can't stand those things, (popups that are Js based that popup the page and block your view).  People who code those should be hung by their nuts.

Another annoying trend is headers and footers that don't scroll with the rest of the page.  They take up page real estate for no reason.  Worse is when the header is not even directly on top but somewhere a bit lower. 

[MrMobodies]

I just noticed the behind the scenes video on twitch.

I was trying remove those annoying things from the video player:

twitch.tv##.player-overlay.player-play-overlay.js-paused-overlay
twitch.tv##.pl-overlay.pl-overlay__fullscreen
twitch.tv##.js-ima-ads-container.ima-ads-container
twitch.tv##.popup-marker-thumbover
twitch.tv##.pl-controls-top.js-controls-top
twitch.tv##.popup-marker-thumbunder
twitch.tv##.popup-arrow
twitch.tv##.popup-thumb-wrapper
twitch.tv##.popup-timestamp

If I remove twitch.tv##.pl-controls-bottom it not only removed the bottom shadow but also removes the player controls as the shadow element is on top.

I can change it the colour of the element but I can't seem to write the Stylish sheet properly for it to automatically do that.

I went on their boards but can't post a screen shot or start a request. I get an internal error message but I think they are having a make as some pages load to a new design which also looks a bit bloated.

[DimitriP]

I absolutely can't stand modern web design.  Way too much overuse of javascript, too many popup and "interactive" crap that just makes the experience terrible.  ........    People who code those should be hung by their nuts.

Another annoying trend is headers and footers that don't scroll with the rest of the page.  They take up page real estate for no reason.  Worse is when the header is not even directly on top but somewhere a bit lower.

There is a war going on. Causing this mess.
Monitor a web page and it connects to a couple of hundred "other places".
As for the people coding, they (the companies) are filling the need of myperfectshinywidger.com to show up on a search when someone is looking for perfect shiny widgets.
The actual people coding, well...they need to eat too, along with the perfect shiny widgets people.
And there are also a bunch of not so perfect, not so shiny widget places that need to eat too.

So everyone in the fight can't stop fighting.
Google is keeping score , a large number of other companies are keeping score, and another large number of companies will help you improve your score.
...and the fight continues...

[james_s]

The thing that bugs me is the way so many sites follow fashion trends in design the way teenagers chase clothing fads. It's all about looking fashionable and trendy with hardly a thought to usability. Lately the trend has been low information density mobile style pages despite the fact that desktop/laptop still make up a majority of traffic on most sites. Then there is the trend of hiding things requiring extra clicks, has anyone tried the DigiKey site lately? I have to click the "show more" button to display the rest of the parametric search options every single time, clearly designed by a web designer who had no idea how engineers select components. Before this there was the "flat design" trend that spread everywhere, lack of visual cues to indicate what is clickable and what is just graphics, and the low contrast crap, dark gray text on a slightly lighter gray background.

On the other end of the spectrum there are websites for various government services that somehow manage to combine the minimalist look of the late 90s internet with all the worst usability issues of the modern web. I don't even know how they manage to make some of them as bad as they are.

[Red Squirrel]

Noticed that too with Digikey.

And yes I HATE the flat trend.  Windows 10 is a good example of everything wrong with modern UI design.  Too much white, not enough indicator of what can and can't be clicked on and no proper separation of information, no borders, button edges etc, it's just so bland. Gray text that is hard to read and fuzzy adds to the horror of the experience.   Also waste of space because everything is so big and spread out in a terrible way.  Go back to say, windows 2000 era and look at something like the screen saver dialog box. It fits nicely even on an 800x600 screen and all the information and settings you need are there and clearly indicated.  Go on windows 10, and once you even figure out how to GET to those settings, the dialog takes up an entire screen on a HD monitor, and half the options are missing and nothing is really clear.   It's like the fact that higher resolutions are available is completely negated by complete inefficient use of space.

[james_s]

Yes the seas of white space that are so common these days drive me nuts. It feels like I'm sitting in the middle of a vast empty warehouse under blindingly bright fluorescent lighting. I've always liked high density layouts with everything in plain view, like the cockpit of an older aircraft. I loathe "minimalist" designs that try to "declutter" by hiding all the stuff I need to use.

[MrMobodies]

I h

Noticed that too with Digikey.

And yes I HATE the flat trend.  Windows 10 is a good example of everything wrong with modern UI design.  Too much white, not enough indicator of what can and can't be clicked on and no proper separation of information, no borders, button edges etc, it's just so bland. Gray text that is hard to read and fuzzy adds to the horror of the experience.   Also waste of space because everything is so big and spread out in a terrible way.  Go back to say, windows 2000 era and look at something like the screen saver dialog box. It fits nicely even on an 800x600 screen and all the information and settings you need are there and clearly indicated.  Go on windows 10, and once you even figure out how to GET to those settings, the dialog takes up an entire screen on a HD monitor, and half the options are missing and nothing is really clear.   It's like the fact that higher resolutions are available is completely negated by complete inefficient use of space.

I heard at about the beginning of this year Classic Shell support was coming to an end.

[IanMacdonald]

There is a war going on. Causing this mess.
Monitor a web page and it connects to a couple of hundred "other places".
As for the people coding, they (the companies) are filling the need of myperfectshinywidger.com to show up on a search when someone is looking for perfect shiny widgets.
The actual people coding, well...they need to eat too, along with the perfect shiny widgets people.
And there are also a bunch of not so perfect, not so shiny widget places that need to eat too.

So everyone in the fight can't stop fighting.
Google is keeping score , a large number of other companies are keeping score, and another large number of companies will help you improve your score.
...and the fight continues...

Worst of it is, the perpetrators are forcing every webmaster to implement security measures which they say are to prevent MITM attacks.. but which are cleverly crafted to NOT prevent them or their buddies performing the same class of attack, nor even to alert the user to their presence when they do. Arguably the real reason is to push certificate sales, along with giving end users a warm, fuzzy feeling of security.

https://iwrconsultancy.co.uk/blog/https

"And yes I HATE the flat trend.  Windows 10 is a good example of everything wrong with modern UI design.  Too much white, not enough indicator of what can and can't be clicked on and no proper separation of information, no borders, button edges etc,"

Agree. One of the worst examples is the crop of login screens on which you can't tell where to type your name or password because the fields have no defined edges. So you take a stab, and your password goes who-knows-where instead of into the field. That can't be good for security.

[MrMobodies]

Amazon Prime annoyance.

See attachment:

Have you come across this behaviour on Amazon yet?

If it annoys you just add the following to your Adblock blocklist:
amazon.co.uk##.a-scroller.attach-accessory-section.a-scroller-vertical
amazon.co.uk###a-popover-lgtbox
amazon.co.uk##.a-declarative.attach-popover
amazon.co.uk###attach-accessory-pane
amazon.co.uk###attach-desktop-sideSheet
amazon.co.uk##.a-section.attach-desktop-sideSheet

Interference by Amazon.
Annoying shadow once again on the things that I do want to see, fixed element in the way that I do not want to see all for crappy suggestions on lengths that I do not need.

[MrMobodies]

It appears that Ebay is experimenting with a new styling on their buttons and forms that sometimes shows up.

See pictures.
Extra large search button that can't be missed.
Smaller Search box with an obtrusive looking shark black line around it all out of place on the checkout page.
The line seems to flash a bit and in my peripheral vision when I look elsewhere on the page

[bitwelder]

Another attempt to make it a better shopping experience for the (effing) mobile users, while everybody else suffer?

[SilverSolder]

Apparently more than half of eBay buyers are on mobile these days.

There are probably tons of people who only have a phone.

I have no problem with making sites optimized for small screens, but why do that to the detriment of laptop/ desktop users...

[james_s]

It's kind of irrelevant for eBay, they already have a mobile app. I use it frequently because it integrates with the camera on my phone and makes it super easy to list items.

When you can detect whether a user is mobile or desktop there's no reason to style for mobile when desktop is detected. News sites are terrible about this, my local news station websites are almost unusable on a desktop. Komonews.com is one of the worst, pass the mouse over certain areas and menus pop up that dismiss themselves if you don't move the mouse just right trying to click something. They have revamped it several times over the past few years and every time I think it can't get worse they're like "hold my beer and watch this."

[SilverSolder]

I hadn't thought about using the app for listing stuff,  that sounds pretty cool!

As you said, it is not beyond the with of Man to design a site that adapts well to both Mobile, Tablet, and Desktop.  Sadly, as desktop is seen as a shrinking market, it doesn't receive much priority.  -  In the "olden days" of web design, it would have been considered unprofessional if your site didn't adapt to various screen sizes,  using any of the various browsers and versions that were in use...

[bd139]

The only problem with the ebay mobile app, at least here, is that it turns on some annoying options that I don't want like "turn best offers on after a week". I usually have to list stuff on my phone then go on the PC and turn off all the crap per-auction. Very annoying.

[MrMobodies]

I get those emails "This is listed by so and so, an experienced eBay seller".

I don't know what to make out about that.

Experienced seller... so what.

I find what I want, see a picture, a description and order.

If it goes wrong the seller has to abide by eBay policy anyway.

I have had "experienced eBay sellers" in the past (if it is to do with how much things they sold) and have been on there for about decade poorly package things and send them out again and again in the same flimsy packaging to be crushed  up and bent in the post despite letting them know how I want it packaged and offering to pay more on the materials.

[SilverSolder]

"experienced, but does not learn from experience" kind of problem?

[MrMobodies]

That was an interesting one that I was thinking about but it still didn't make sense to me.

How can you be experienced when you have learn't from experience.
Maybe it is me and there are other ways to be experienced.

Anyway another stupid email I get occasionally get that's now on the rise when I just look at something.

...this is limited but you can still get it...

Don't lose out on this - there are ... watchers but .. left

See picture

I only looked at that one from a suggestion for a couple of seconds. I was not interested, closed the tab and that was it then I got that email.

It was not as if spent time searching for them with the model number.

I am going to look at turning those alerts off.

[SilverSolder]

How can you be experienced when you have learn't from experience.

Consider the example of someone who has failed to achieve some objective despite trying the same thing again and again,  and again.

Experienced... yes.  Learned something... no!


Someone saying they are "experienced" without specifying what that means, is actually not saying anything at all!

[MrMobodies]

How can you be experienced when you have learn't from experience.

Consider the example of someone who has failed to achieve some objective despite trying the same thing again and again,  and again.

Experienced... yes.  Learned something... no!


Someone saying they are "experienced" without specifying what that means, is actually not saying anything at all!

Thanks. I think I know now.

Like what happened with Theresa May and her Brexit plan.

[SilverSolder]

It's funny you should say that,  the thought crossed my mind as I was typing...   

[james_s]

I don't think "experienced" is that unusual or ambiguous. I mean try to get any real job and they're going to want some experience. An experienced seller should generally know the ropes. Doesn't mean an inexperienced seller is going to be bad, but someone who has sold and shipped a lot of items will probably have a good idea how to safely pack something for example. It also gives some credibility to their feedback rating.

[SilverSolder]

"experienced, but does not learn from experience" kind of problem?

many do not learn from mistakes and continue to do it

Only Darwin is there to prevent it going on too long! 

[RenThraysk]

Don't know wtf Scan is doing... but accessing it from a desktop have to pass a captcha. Got to be an idiot to put a captcha on an ecommerce site.

[bd139]

They're stopping people like pcpartpicker.com from scraping their web front end. Big problem at the moment, particularly around product release season.

[SilverSolder]

Don't know wtf Scan is doing... but accessing it from a desktop have to pass a captcha. Got to be an idiot to put a captcha on an ecommerce site.

The main purpose of captcha is to place tracking cookies in your browser, possibly fingerprinting your environment in other ways too.  I'm pretty sure Google pays vendors to allow them to get Captcha involved.

[james_s]

The main purpose of captcha is to place tracking cookies in your browser, possibly fingerprinting your environment in other ways too.  I'm pretty sure Google pays vendors to allow them to get Captcha involved.

Somebody told me the ones that make you click all of the pictures with motorcycles or crosswalks or traffic signals or whatever are to get you to train their object recognition AI. I have no idea if that's true or not though so take it with a grain of salt.

[Red Squirrel]

The main purpose of captcha is to place tracking cookies in your browser, possibly fingerprinting your environment in other ways too.  I'm pretty sure Google pays vendors to allow them to get Captcha involved.

Somebody told me the ones that make you click all of the pictures with motorcycles or crosswalks or traffic signals or whatever are to get you to train their object recognition AI. I have no idea if that's true or not though so take it with a grain of salt.

That's what I heard too and ever since then I purposely always get a bunch wrong at the start.  Even if I get them all right it still makes me redo it a million times anyway.  I hate those so much and the stupid fade effect is so slow!

[YurkshireLad]

I also heard that Google's captcha Ilis intended to train their AI and I believe it. It asked me to identify boats this week! It's also intended to identify you. If it can't then you have to repeat the process until it knows who you are.

[SilverSolder]

I also heard that Google's captcha Ilis intended to train their AI and I believe it. It asked me to identify boats this week! It's also intended to identify you. If it can't then you have to repeat the process until it knows who you are.

I like messing with its head, so it never knows who I am, LOL...

I might write a script to mess with its head for me...

[MrMobodies]

I came across one Google Captcha with motorcycles and some message about suspicous traffic but I was doing lots of searches with tabs open on Google at the time.

I was just looking at Tripadvisor and slowness with all those flashing skeleton things but I got rid of those apart from the dimming on the pictures which seems to be the parent element and it seems to loader quicker but the flashing I found was annoying.

My blocklist (too big to post here) is now over 3000 lines compared to about 300 this time last year before the lockdown.

Web UI annoyances Suggestions/page dimming/spinners/overlays/animated skeleton placeholder blocklist:
https://pastebin.com/sCrFH1Rc

[NiHaoMike]

Somebody told me the ones that make you click all of the pictures with motorcycles or crosswalks or traffic signals or whatever are to get you to train their object recognition AI. I have no idea if that's true or not though so take it with a grain of salt.

Use this to fight back:
https://github.com/dessant/buster/

[Lowkus]

I was just thinking about how to design a website the other day for my photography portfolio.  If I had a menu bar on the top of that page that is always there when you're scrolling, but I keep it only high enough to have some navigation buttons, is that still an annoying thing to see on the page?  Or, let's say the webpage is for selling products, would it still be annoying to always see that menu bar if it shows data such as the total price of everything that's currently in your shopping cart?

[SilverSolder]

I was just thinking about how to design a website the other day for my photography portfolio.  If I had a menu bar on the top of that page that is always there when you're scrolling, but I keep it only high enough to have some navigation buttons, is that still an annoying thing to see on the page?  Or, let's say the webpage is for selling products, would it still be annoying to always see that menu bar if it shows data such as the total price of everything that's currently in your shopping cart?

Depends on the size of the screen - on a phone, both those things would be annoying, on a laptop/desktop, might be helpful.

[PlainName]

is that still an annoying thing to see on the page?

Very. Try it with your phone sideways so you can see the full width of a page without need a microscope. Your vertical real estate is very tiny.

If you think an ever-present menu might be useful, have it so it disappear as you scroll down (as it would if stuck to the top of the page) and then reappear on the first upscroll (that is, so you don't need to go all the way back to the top of the page). But that can be annoying too: you either overlay something I was just reading at the top of the screen, or push everything down so what I was reading at the bottom is now below the line and I need to scroll down to see it, which removes the menu and bumps everything up unexpectedly.

[MrMobodies]

I was just thinking about how to design a website the other day for my photography portfolio.  If I had a menu bar on the top of that page that is always there when you're scrolling, but I keep it only high enough to have some navigation buttons, is that still an annoying thing to see on the page?  Or, let's say the webpage is for selling products, would it still be annoying to always see that menu bar if it shows data such as the total price of everything that's currently in your shopping cart?

Yes it would be to me.

Anything like without a close or even corner slider button to hide it will distract and annoy me as it spans over the top and overlaps over the content.

It is a bit like Channel logos on television when they started putting them on at the top corner and I don't see channels that do that during drama and films.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_on-screen_graphic

The BBC initially introduced a DOG on each of its digital-only channels. In July 1998, it added DOGs to BBC One and BBC Two on Sky Digital but following a large number of complaints they were removed just two months later.
...
On digital systems such as Sky and Freeview, where stations have a set EPG number and a name displayed across the bottom of the screen when changing channel, DOGs have been deemed unnecessary by some users. Despite this, broadcasters persist with the practice. In response to negative feedback, the BBC has responded, "We believe it is important to ensure that viewers can quickly identify when they are watching a BBC service."
...
Many viewers also find this practice annoying, distracting and unnecessary

I know some years ago Ebay put this Basketbar and purchase bar which I hid.

To me it makes the page looks smaller cluttered and bloated and I find and can't concentrate with that stuck over it in the way.

That is why I am forced to use browser extensions to auto hide/show them but it doesn't always restore them and if the page jumps/shrinks it won't reshow at the positions.

Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sticky-header-hider-aka-f/eagncneohcoiofhknkofdobphnhgblad

Sticky Ducky for Firefox:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/sticky-ducky/

If it is smaller this one with just text menus on Falstad: https://www.falstad.com/circuit/ then I might not notice it.

Someone mentioned to me about a modern website called Wikiwand:
https://www.wikiwand.com/

Turning off the Headhiderfixer looking at it:
They have fixed headers too but it is done in such a way it doesn't seem to get in the way and cover up the contents.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ocean

The fixed header appears and hides by scrolling pattern/hint which is convenient for me and allows me a choice when I don't want it in the way reading an article.

Now that works for me and not against me. I think that is a really good example, consideration went into that as it is customizable and respects my screen area of the contents.

Another good thing on Wikiwand, no dimming the edges of photos and thumbnails.

I always thought that slapping uncloseable things over contents as spammy behaviour.

[james_s]

It is a bit like Channel logos on television when they started putting them on at the top corner and I don't see channels that do that during drama and films.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_on-screen_graphic

The BBC initially introduced a DOG on each of its digital-only channels. In July 1998, it added DOGs to BBC One and BBC Two on Sky Digital but following a large number of complaints they were removed just two months later.

Those logos are so annoying, I can't watch anything that has one of those, it irritates me constantly, like a smudge of something on the screen that I can't wipe off. I actually completely stopped watching broadcast TV many years ago, baffles me that some people pay so much for cable or satellite TV, if somebody gave it to me for free I wouldn't bother to hook it up to my TV. The logo makes the content worthless to me. I've been 100% streaming for several years and before that I was buying all my content on DVD.

[Syntax Error]

Just been hunting down an issue with an e-commerce site where some, but not all of the users on various devices, are unable to click on their customer account options. The reason is (most likley) an old favourite web-beacon tracking-n-tagging offering from tiqcdn.com . It seems their e-commerce site will only fully function if these covert trackers remain unblocked.

So how did this become a UX (user experience) issue? Some customers were reporting a related "Internal Server Error" message on their basket checkout. Eventually, a (working from home) customer services monkey thought this might be kind of important to be investigated. Then someone realised the buttons didn't work either.

Under the code hood, there is likely a dozen missing event handlers due to an abended promise/callback. But seriously EEVBlog, I cannot be fekin o'assed to hack their fault as I'm not doing their bloat coder's job; both properly and for free!

These I can't believe it's not a cookie trackers are flavour of the month in the 'toolbox' of the managerial tools who use phrases like "insight metrics" in a crowded coffee bar. But the wider business issue is that customers are frequently being penalised for being web-safe. Assuming users won't deploy ad-blockers is like assuming Scotsmen don't wear underpants (to quote my old technical instructor).

Note to developers: If your users say NO to cookies and NO to tracking, and deploy ad-blockers to cleanse their page (and data allowance), then your site has to carry on working without any dependency on your bloatsh*t.

[SilverSolder]

There are a lot of really bad developers out there...

My latest annoyance is the FitBit fitness tracker...   Helping an elderly person set one up, it turns out these things "require" the latest OS (Win 10, recent Android) to work properly (whatever the documentation says).

I have no idea how a dev team ended up in a situation where something as simple as a FitBit requires the latest OS to work.  Incompetence might be one explanation, or perhaps the ability to track users is better (for them) in later OS revisions.

This is truly clueless, as many older people don't bother keeping up with the latest fads in phones and laptops...  are they expected to upgrade everything they own just to suit the convenience of a clueless development team at FitBit?

Compare the mediocre FitBit support with a company where the developers DO seem to have a clue:  Garmin.   Their VivoSmart fitness tracker works on every version of Windows back to...   Windows 2000!   LOL, I would already have given them top marks for supporting back to XP!

So in this case, it was easy to solve the problem:  return the poorly conceived FitBit and instead order a correctly engineered Garmin fitness tracker...

[PlainName]

I have no idea how a dev team ended up in a situation where something as simple as a FitBit requires the latest OS to work.

1. Win7 is out of support and obsoleted, so some companies are not just refusing to support it but actively blocking use on it 'to reduce support calls'.

2. Microsoft frameworks might include APIs that only the new OS supports, thus just using the latest framework for your app limits its use to the new OS. The Streambox is probably a good example: it won't run on Windows 7 by default. However, if you place some DLLs, which have empty functions, in its folder to intercept calls to the OS-supplied DLLS, it works.

3. Microsoft go out of their way to prevent stuff working on Windows 7 for non-technical reasons. Entirely possible they've persuaded FitBit to succumb to that mindview via inducements of some kind.

[PlainName]

Note to developers: If your users say NO to cookies and NO to tracking, and deploy ad-blockers to cleanse their page

I think there is an underlying assumption about the balance of power in that which doesn't apply. I am fairly sure that some suppliers see the user's job as jumping through hoops to be allowed to purchase something, whereas it should be the vendor's job to persuade the user to buy something. These kinds of websites are for those users who feel blessed to be allowed to browser them, so any user blocking cookies or tracking or ads clearly isn't suitable and doesn't matter.

[Bud]

2. Microsoft frameworks might include APIs that only the new OS supports, thus just using the latest framework for your app limits its use to the new OS. 

This ^^^

Edit: If Fitbit hires young punks out of the school to do development, this is what they get. At Garmin i feel they still may have some grey beards influence.

[YurkshireLad]

2. Microsoft frameworks might include APIs that only the new OS supports, thus just using the latest framework for your app limits its use to the new OS. 

This ^^^

Edit: If Fitbit hires young punks out of the school to do development, this is what they get. At Garmin i feel they still may have some grey beards influence.

Regarding your comment about grey beards. I fear you may be right. I see so many user interfaces these days that make no sense whatsoever. And they're probably all designed by young people, not grey beards. I'm almost a grey beard myself and I hate modern UIs.

[SilverSolder]

2. Microsoft frameworks might include APIs that only the new OS supports, thus just using the latest framework for your app limits its use to the new OS. 

This ^^^

Edit: If Fitbit hires young punks out of the school to do development, this is what they get. At Garmin i feel they still may have some grey beards influence.

Regarding your comment about grey beards. I fear you may be right. I see so many user interfaces these days that make no sense whatsoever. And they're probably all designed by young people, not grey beards. I'm almost a grey beard myself and I hate modern UIs.

The Garmin UI shows signs of grey beards at work too -  it is logical and intuitive, and provides both top level and drill-down views of the data - it is good to know that there is at least one company left in the world that you can trust to develop a discoverable and efficient UI,  instead of leaving development up to an outsourced team of n00bs which FitBit has all the hallmarks of.

[cdev]

This same approach is leading to a lot of broken web pages, typiclly ones that only support chrome. And there is no deal killing technical reason for it.

They are trying to force people to use chrome.

But I prefer not to because the version my distrio ships is unacceptable to me. Chrome seems to make dns queries to gibberish domains that dont exist. Maybe its a security problem?

I have no idea how a dev team ended up in a situation where something as simple as a FitBit requires the latest OS to work.

1. Win7 is out of support and obsoleted, so some companies are not just refusing to support it but actively blocking use on it 'to reduce support calls'.

2. Microsoft frameworks might include APIs that only the new OS supports, thus just using the latest framework for your app limits its use to the new OS. The Streambox is probably a good example: it won't run on Windows 7 by default. However, if you place some DLLs, which have empty functions, in its folder to intercept calls to the OS-supplied DLLS, it works.

3. Microsoft go out of their way to prevent stuff working on Windows 7 for non-technical reasons. Entirely possible they've persuaded FitBit to succumb to that mindview via inducements of some kind.

[cdev]

Cable programming used to be delivered without ads.. Now it records and uploads what you watch and they sell that data.

It is a bit like Channel logos on television when they started putting them on at the top corner and I don't see channels that do that during drama and films.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_on-screen_graphic

The BBC initially introduced a DOG on each of its digital-only channels. In July 1998, it added DOGs to BBC One and BBC Two on Sky Digital but following a large number of complaints they were removed just two months later.

Those logos are so annoying, I can't watch anything that has one of those, it irritates me constantly, like a smudge of something on the screen that I can't wipe off. I actually completely stopped watching broadcast TV many years ago, baffles me that some people pay so much for cable or satellite TV, if somebody gave it to me for free I wouldn't bother to hook it up to my TV. The logo makes the content worthless to me. I've been 100% streaming for several years and before that I was buying all my content on DVD.

[SilverSolder]

Cable programming used to be delivered without ads.. Now it records and uploads what you watch and they sell that data.

It is a bit like Channel logos on television when they started putting them on at the top corner and I don't see channels that do that during drama and films.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_on-screen_graphic

The BBC initially introduced a DOG on each of its digital-only channels. In July 1998, it added DOGs to BBC One and BBC Two on Sky Digital but following a large number of complaints they were removed just two months later.

Those logos are so annoying, I can't watch anything that has one of those, it irritates me constantly, like a smudge of something on the screen that I can't wipe off. I actually completely stopped watching broadcast TV many years ago, baffles me that some people pay so much for cable or satellite TV, if somebody gave it to me for free I wouldn't bother to hook it up to my TV. The logo makes the content worthless to me. I've been 100% streaming for several years and before that I was buying all my content on DVD.

Cut the cord!   you know it makes sense.   Spend the savings on wine, women, and song (it will be better for you).

[james_s]

Cut the cord!   you know it makes sense.   Spend the savings on wine, women, and song (it will be better for you).

I cut the cord almost 20 years ago, right around the time all the channels started getting those stupid logos. I started buying used DVDs instead, and now I have my own streaming server that holds all of that content. There are enough existing movies and shows out there on disc and digital download that I don't need TV service or production studios anymore.

[Terry Bites]

I clear well organised page doesn't impress the morons in sales. Giving the reader a siezure seems to be a great idea though.
It shows how little writers know about graphic design and how much they love wank loops.

I hate bloatware- the sort of crap that happens when you install a printer. All we needed was the driver, but now we have a whole suite of rubbish Apps
I'm still traumatised by NERO

[JohnnyMalaria]

The new Smartsheet home page. Jeez.



PS: Someone please remind me how to get the link to make the image show in the body of the post.

[SilverSolder]

The new Smartsheet home page. Jeez.

(Attachment Link)

PS: Someone please remind me how to get the link to make the image show in the body of the post.

After posting, right click on the attached image and do "Copy Link Address" (or whatever the equivalent in your browser).

Then edit your post, and just add an Image (use the Mona Lisa button) and paste the address you just picked up.

Works on other people's attachments too, like this:

[PlainName]

But that doesn't show the thumbnail. Once everyone does that we'll end up with pages full of high-res photos that get downloaded every time the thread is opened, spaces out the content so it's multiple paging just to read the text, etc. And then you get the thumbnails at the end too!

What we really need is the expandable thumbnail embedded in the text, not the original image.

[Edit: for reference, the thumbnail is 3K, the full thing 100K. Some threads are pretty much unreadable because the slow loading of the in-message images keeps bumping the bloody text down below the line, so it's a constant scroll just to keep reading the same paragraph.]

[MrMobodies]

I hate bloatware- the sort of crap that happens when you install a printer. All we needed was the driver, but now we have a whole suite of rubbish Apps
I'm still traumatised by NERO

I remembered in 2011, in tiny small writing to customize the installation packages in the setup for a hp printer.

I missed it on one occasion as it looked a little different and 600 megabytes and 15 minutes installing a "customer improvement program".

Also I avoid the windows WDS driver as I found it doesn't always work and also it installs this stupid "See what's printing dialogue" thing with it that's in the way of the print monitor where I have click something in there to see it.

I just use Universal Extractor to extract the files and install the basic print driver. Some scanners come with scan to network which is convenient for me and I don't have to install the button drivers that I have found many also failing to work at times from my past experience.

[SilverSolder]

I hate bloatware- the sort of crap that happens when you install a printer. All we needed was the driver, but now we have a whole suite of rubbish Apps
I'm still traumatised by NERO

I remembered in 2011, in tiny small writing to customize the installation packages in the setup for a hp printer.

I missed it on one occasion as it looked a little different and 600 megabytes and 15 minutes installing a "customer improvement program".

Also I avoid the windows WDS driver as I found it doesn't always work and also it installs this stupid "See what's printing dialogue" thing with it that's in the way of the print monitor where I have click something in there to see it.

I just use Universal Extractor to extract the files and install the basic print driver. Some scanners come with scan to network which is convenient for me and I don't have to install the button drivers that I have found many also failing to work at times from my past experience.

Thank you for the Universal Extractor tip,  I didn't know about that one.

[vk6zgo]

I'm not a computer "geek"------just an everyday user of websites.
What I find astounding is that so many are dysfunctional.

How they purport to be used, & how they do work, are two very different things, so you need to "read between the lines", & come up with workarounds so the site works "as advertised".

Sometimes Googling will find a workaround, other times you just have to try to analyse the designer's thinking.

I had an account with a firm who nagged unceasingly on their phone "queue" about the advantages of ordering online.
"Great!" said I, went to the website, & tried that.

My account number was rejected, so I rang the normal number, who said, "No, you can't do that".
After that, I gave up for quite a while, then determined to try again.

After a lot of farting around, I found, hidden away in the guts of the site, another phone number.
I rang that, & a knowledgeable person talked me through how to use my existing account on line.

All stuff which could have/should have been included on the website.
If you want people to use your website, why go out of your way to discourage them?

Then there was the online grocery shopping site, where the inadvertent selection of the wrong delivery/pickup destination locked me into having to pick stuff up.

There was nowhere that you could make the choice "home delivery, or pickup", just an incidental relationship to a different selection altogether.

It also shows you what is in the trolley, but you can't print that out to check with your better half whether anything is missing.
No, you need to wait for an e-mail, after finalising the order!
To add anything, you then have to re-open the site, select "change this order", & do so.
The next step is to finalise the order, again!

Other delights are the various govt websites----Aaarrrggghhh!

And, of course, Facebook!

It almost seems that web designers don't ever think how "the great unwashed" are going to use the site, so don't make them transparent.
Instead, they are made so their designers can use them easily, knowing it "backwards".

I am a technical person, so am used to problem solving, & although an OF, still have "most of my marbles", but many others must be "all at sea".

[PlainName]

Once everyone does that we'll end up with pages full of high-res photos that get downloaded every time the thread is opened

Forgot to mention the unthinking quoted quotes which ALL include the same mega-sized image. Some otherwise interesting threads I just couldn't be arsed to follow until they turned a new page, and then it's OK for 3 or 4 posts before the snail-like stuttered scrolling starts again.

A bit ironic considering the topic of this thread.

[SilverSolder]

But that doesn't show the thumbnail. Once everyone does that we'll end up with pages full of high-res photos that get downloaded every time the thread is opened, spaces out the content so it's multiple paging just to read the text, etc. And then you get the thumbnails at the end too!

What we really need is the expandable thumbnail embedded in the text, not the original image.

[Edit: for reference, the thumbnail is 3K, the full thing 100K. Some threads are pretty much unreadable because the slow loading of the in-message images keeps bumping the bloody text down below the line, so it's a constant scroll just to keep reading the same paragraph.]

I guess it's a good idea to limit the size of images that you use, in general, when posting to forums.  Sometimes a high res image is appropriate, but more often than not, a smaller, lower Q image would be fine.

[NiHaoMike]

I guess it's a good idea to limit the size of images that you use, in general, when posting to forums.  Sometimes a high res image is appropriate, but more often than not, a smaller, lower Q image would be fine.

I generally target 1080p except for special cases where it would be massive overkill or insufficient to show detail. I wonder how many more years before 4K or 1440p become mainstream enough to make that the new target...

[SilverSolder]

I guess it's a good idea to limit the size of images that you use, in general, when posting to forums.  Sometimes a high res image is appropriate, but more often than not, a smaller, lower Q image would be fine.

I generally target 1080p except for special cases where it would be massive overkill or insufficient to show detail. I wonder how many more years before 4K or 1440p become mainstream enough to make that the new target...

Even 600x800 is often good enough for "banter" pictures...    A page full of 4K pictures would be hard for many connections to "swallow"!

[NiHaoMike]

Even 600x800 is often good enough for "banter" pictures...    A page full of 4K pictures would be hard for many connections to "swallow"!

Why should we limit ourselves to a standard that was in common use on the Web over 20 years ago? If anything, that's just too small on modern high resolution displays. I picked 1080p because it has been affordable for over 10 years and still looks great on the newest hardware.

[PlainName]

Why should we limit ourselves to a standard that was in common use on the Web over 20 years ago? If anything, that's just too small on modern high resolution displays.

You make the same mistake as the designers of bloaty web pages - screen resolution doesn't equate to window resolution. For example, I am using a 4K monitor now but this browser window is 1200x1200. I didn't buy a huge monitor so I could fill it with your photo (that I probably ain't interested in anyway). No, it is a huge monitor so I can fit more stuff on it without spilling over onto a second or third one. (In fact, this is my second 4K - the first was a 32" but the DPI was too fine for me so I had Windows set to scale 125%. That kind of worked but lost me a good part of the screen I bought for more dots. Dumped it and got this 43" which is perfect.)

Does it never occur to people that things that have lasted "over 20 years" might do so because they are pretty OK? This text you're reading - do you want/need to change the language because English must be pretty worn out now? Maybe use finger smears (and lots of white space) instead of thin lines?

It's not that long ago that web designers assumed their breathless prose would fit nicely our 1920-wide monitors and didn't allow for a non-maxed browser window. It's taken some time to disabuse them of that, and bumping up image resolution just because you can is missing the lessons learned.

If you really feel the need to post a huge, or even just large, image, please do us the courtesy of letting us choose whether to view it or not. The facility is there when you post: make it "end-of-post expandable thumbnail" or "inline expandable thumbnail" if that ever works properly again. Copying the full-size link to post in-text is just saying "my wishes are too important for you to have a choice".

[SilverSolder]

Even 600x800 is often good enough for "banter" pictures...    A page full of 4K pictures would be hard for many connections to "swallow"!

Why should we limit ourselves to a standard that was in common use on the Web over 20 years ago? If anything, that's just too small on modern high resolution displays. I picked 1080p because it has been affordable for over 10 years and still looks great on the newest hardware.

We don't "need" to limit it, but e.g. this flower is beautiful in 800x600 so why post the original 40+ megapixel image?

[james_s]

You make the same mistake as the designers of bloaty web pages - screen resolution doesn't equate to window resolution. For example, I am using a 4K monitor now but this browser window is 1200x1200. I didn't buy a huge monitor so I could fill it with your photo (that I probably ain't interested in anyway). No, it is a huge monitor so I can fit more stuff on it without spilling over onto a second or third one. (In fact, this is my second 4K - the first was a 32" but the DPI was too fine for me so I had Windows set to scale 125%. That kind of worked but lost me a good part of the screen I bought for more dots. Dumped it and got this 43" which is perfect.)

Exactly this. I have a 1080p display on my laptop, and I never have my browser maximized to fill the whole screen unless I'm watching a video that I want to focus entirely on. I tile the applications and windows I have open so I can multitask and see multiple things at once. I find it endlessly frustrating that there is this arms race where the more pixels I get, the more bloated and wasteful of said pixels everything gets. The whole point of a high resolution monitor is to display lots of information, scaling everything up so it looks the same size as it did on a lower resolution monitor defeats the purpose. 800x600 is perfectly adequate for a photo, having higher resolution available is nice if it's something that has detail someone may want to zoom in on but it should not be the default. Just because the pixels are there doesn't mean you should use them.

[NiHaoMike]

Does it never occur to people that things that have lasted "over 20 years" might do so because they are pretty OK? This text you're reading - do you want/need to change the language because English must be pretty worn out now? Maybe use finger smears (and lots of white space) instead of thin lines?

English has evolved considerably over the years - remember the Shakespeare they had you read in school and how it's so different to "modern" English? Increasing resolution isn't completely changing format, it's just adding more detail.

Looking back, I targeted 1024x768 in 2010, changing that to 1080p sometime in 2012. 1080p pictures are pretty easy to handle, even my old Core 2 Duo back in the day had no problem with it.

[PlainName]

English has evolved considerably over the years

That's so, but only in content rather than the mechanics. It is still upper- and lowercase, vertical lines and circles.

even my old Core 2 Duo back in the day had no problem with it

But your Core 2 Duo wasn't the one viewing the stuff.

I'm sure your images justify whatever pixel size you consider suitable. What we're asking is that you don't put those in the body text. Just use the thumbnail facility and anyone that wants or needs to see then in their unadulterated glory can do so with a click. Meanwhile, people that want to read the text can do so without having to wear out the mouse scrolling past them. And waiting for the damn page to stop filling with junk.

[MrMobodies]

I remembered my first monitor 17inch a Viewsonic in 1999 doing 1024 x 768 at 85hz or something like that. That broke many times so I got a philips 19inch that did 1280 x 2048 and that lasted many years until the day the vga plug broke which I could patched another one. I brought a HP2065 in 2006 which I am still using and no problems and that is 1600 x 1200 at 60 hz. I was given a couple of Sony monitors at about that time and  I think one of them was a 21inch and that could  1280 x 2048 at 85hz or 1600 x 1200 at 60hz?

I hardly had  no issues with web design (I can tollerate glitches and imperfections untill I started to notice this spammy behaviour in about 2015 (forced suggestions and sticky header/ (I just call it a spammy toolbars) rubbish started up then things started to get larger and larger and spaced out.

Like yesterday I was trying to get someone a camera driver. I ended downloading an older copy from an old direct link on google search leading to Logitech out of frustration of not being able to find it on the Logitech website. Eventually I found it after looking again for a couple of minutes because that was an older driver with things wrong wit hit but I didn't find it obvious at first time because of how large things were.


See attached pictures: Anyway with the extensions off, so I am missing anything that might be fixed and offer a quicker convenient url to the download (which I wouldn't want stuck there either. Scroll all the way down the page, okay, I see Specifications. Where are the drivers, when I looked it was under support.

https://www.logitech.com/en-gb/products/webcams/streamcam.html

A horrid toolbar with a "Buy" button : logitech.com##.component-secondary-nav.fixed-nav   (Like that is so important that with the space it takes up and the distraction it causes me for a button I'm not likely to click except add it to my blocklist well the Headerhiderhixer extension takes care of that.)

Click support then downloads.

Okay I click "View all downloads" then I redirected to this page:

https://support.logi.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360042746714-Download-Stub-Logitech-StreamCam

with a button "show all downloads".

By clicking that page I'd want to see all downloads without it being hidden under a button.

The side panel make some sense to me apart from this other distracting horrible spammy toolbar.
support.logi.com##.component-corporate-nav.corporate-nav.theme-dark.sticky
logitech.com##.component-secondary-nav.fixed-nav

Could do without the toolbars and a downloads url on top of the page that leads to downloads that actually show.

[james_s]

Looking back, I targeted 1024x768 in 2010, changing that to 1080p sometime in 2012. 1080p pictures are pretty easy to handle, even my old Core 2 Duo back in the day had no problem with it.

Good for you, you've been annoying people for 11 years since it worked for you and you never had the slightest concern for how other people may work. My computer can handle large pictures just fine, that doesn't mean I want to have them embedded so they fill my entire screen without me even clicking on a thumbnail to see them. You really are illustrating perfectly the mentality and complete and utter disregard for any use case other than your own that this thread is complaining about in the first place.

[SilverSolder]

Looking back, I targeted 1024x768 in 2010, changing that to 1080p sometime in 2012. 1080p pictures are pretty easy to handle, even my old Core 2 Duo back in the day had no problem with it.

Good for you, you've been annoying people for 11 years since it worked for you and you never had the slightest concern for how other people may work. My computer can handle large pictures just fine, that doesn't mean I want to have them embedded so they fill my entire screen without me even clicking on a thumbnail to see them. You really are illustrating perfectly the mentality and complete and utter disregard for any use case other than your own that this thread is complaining about in the first place.

Some web sites dish up different size pictures, depending on the size of the browser window.  (At least, in the days before everything had to be white pixels!)

[Nominal Animal]

Some web sites dish up different size pictures, depending on the size of the browser window.  (At least, in the days before everything had to be white pixels!)

A decade and a half ago I reimplemented (technically; no redesign work) the web pages for a university department (later the entire faculty of science).  Because of lack of SVG support in all browsers then, the fully autoscaling layout had a logo consisting of an SVG image, backed by MathML if SVG was not supported, backed by a PNG (or was it GIF?) image in case neither was supported.  Content scaled to fill the browser window naturally, and text size was freely scalable using the browser controls.  (Most of my work, however, was to re-engineer the backend, because we had a lot of different people maintaining different parts of the site, and they changed often; my job was to make it easier and more efficient for people.  The user-facing "adjustments" I did on my own, but they were very happily accepted.)

You see, I was disgusted to see that when lecturers showed a web page "designed for 800x600" or "1024x768" or whatever the designers had decided was the resolution, on the über-powerful projectors the content was this thin strip on the 6-meter wide canvas nobody could read.  Obviously, this was because the projector resolution was approx. double the typical display resolution then.  Useless; silly.  Made me angry, that.

After my meddling, everyone could read the very same pages on all different devices, from phones to 4K displays.  (We did do custom stylesheets for phones to rip out most of the eye candy, so phones would show content better.)  And they also fully conformed to XHTML 1.1 (unless a page maintainer introduced errors in the text content; which was stored in separate files from the UI stuff, and combined on the fly with my utterly simple "page engine").

It used to be much more work than nowadays, too, because of the numerous layout bugs in different browsers that needed to be worked around.  I'm old enough to remember when uploads themselves were technically difficult to handle robustly, just because each new browser version tended to have their own new bugs in their implementation...

I think I've only managed to anger a handful of (web) designers in my time.  The dozen or so I've talked to that were initially unhappy about my suggestions (who wanted to design for a specific resolution), all were really interested and happy to see how they could still fully control the layout and visual look while letting the content scale "naturally" to different devices and browser window sizes; especially since I was happy to do the technical conversion work, and they only specify the dimensions in appropriate units (either em or ex if dependent on text size, or percentage of window width, typically).  A big part of that, of course, was me showing their design in different situations in practice – I knew to always do that, because out of sight, out of mind, so realizing something often requires seeing it for oneself first.

Based on a lot of experience, I claim that such relative scaling is the correct way to design a web site.

With respect to image sizes on forums like this, it would work better if the [IMG] tag allowed an attribute to specify the displayed width of the image relative to the content area (in percentage) the image is scaled to, regardless of the resolution – and that it supported SVG images, too.  SVG is perfect for diagrams and schematics, and scale perfectly.  I suppose even a tag that caused the forum to generate a snippet of Javascript that switches between native size and scaled to content size keeping aspect ratio intact, would work.  (It'd be trivial to implement.)

Then, the pixel size of uploaded images would not matter nearly as much as it does right now.
As things stand right now, us SMF2 users have to consider the pixel size the presentation size, and that is wrong (based on above).
Plus, the [ATTACHIMG] tag doesn't seem to work at all, which means every post that contains images has to be edited to get the images inline.

[NiHaoMike]

Good for you, you've been annoying people for 11 years since it worked for you and you never had the slightest concern for how other people may work. My computer can handle large pictures just fine, that doesn't mean I want to have them embedded so they fill my entire screen without me even clicking on a thumbnail to see them. You really are illustrating perfectly the mentality and complete and utter disregard for any use case other than your own that this thread is complaining about in the first place.

Only 9 years since I decided to upgrade my target resolution to 1080p. Maybe that was a bit early but at some point any target resolution we set will become too low for the display technology in common use. I like to err on the side of setting the target high so it will continue to look good on newer hardware.

Some web sites dish up different size pictures, depending on the size of the browser window.  (At least, in the days before everything had to be white pixels!)

Or they just tell the browser to scale down pictures as needed. I remember one site that used some dumb code to scale down pictures crazy small which I hated, luckily I use Firefox so one extension to disable that and the site was usable on what was then a fairly new PC. Make the scaling code check the width of the browser window and it will auto adapt to what the user set it to.

[Nominal Animal]

As an example of how image resizing within posts should work, here's my suggestion: Initially 25% of available area width, first click resizes to 100%, second to native pixel size, and third click resizes to initial size.  Example implementation using capt bullshot's workbench image:

Code: [Select]

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html><head><title>Autoscaling example</title><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><style type="text/css">
.smallimg { width: 25%; }
.mediumimg { width: 100%; }
.largeimg { }
</style><script type="text/javascript">
function imgsize(element, w, h) {
    if (element.className == "smallimg") {
        element.className = "mediumimg";
    } else
    if (element.className == "mediumimg") {
        element.className = "largeimg";
    } else
    if (element.className == "largeimg") {
        element.className = "smallimg";
    }
}
</script></head><body>

<img class="smallimg" src="https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/whats-your-work-benchlab-look-like-post-some-pictures-of-your-lab/?action=dlattach;attach=1218714;image" alt="Click to resize" onClick="imgsize(this, 2559, 1600);">

</body></html>
There are even tidier, better ways to implement this, but this just to show how simple something like is to technically implement; it's only a question of what human designers deign to implement.  SMF already implements something much like this; the above code is not fully compatible with SMF's style system, but the tweaks needed to make it so are small and simple.

In other words, SMF users are currently "encouraged" to upload too-large images if they use large displays, because otherwise the images are shown smaller than necessary.  The pixel size of an image should be dictated by the fidelity required – large enough for text to be easily readable – and not the presentation size.  For vector formats like SVG, optimal for charts and diagrams, including board schematics, the scaling wouldn't even affect fidelity at all, but SMF's upload does not currently support SVG images as file uploads. (I link to SVG images on my own server, when I use those.)

The entire discussion on what pixel size images one should use, is therefore utterly silly, because it depends on the image content.  It's just that now, SMF forces an unnecessary and unreasonable relationship between presentation size and pixel size.

[DiTBho]

I have the same problem for a blog project. I need to learn things in order to avoid these silly mistakes.

[DiTBho]

How do you probe the screen resolution?

[Nominal Animal]

How do you probe the screen resolution?

Browser window width and height (excluding scrollbars) are window.width and window.height, the display width and height excluding taskbar is window.screen.availWidth and window.screen.availHeight (window.screen.width and window.screen.height including taskbar).

Basically, all you want to access from JavaScript hangs off either the document or the window objects.  This stuff is called "the Document Object Model", or DOM.

Personally, like I said, I use window-size-relative or text-relative layouts.  This means I don't care about the pixel dimensions at all, and use either relative-to-container sizing (percentage) or dependent-on-current-font (em and ex).

[DiTBho]

So, Javascript probes the browser and gets its property, but how do you then use this information on the PHP side to react and accordingly adjust the the html code with the proper css and style?

Suppose you have four css
- mobile_phones.css
- mobile_tablet.css
- computer_small_screen.css
- computer_big_screen.css

The PHP code has no idea about the browser but the Javascript knows the browser because it's executed by the browser so it can tell the PHP code to change the css accordingly.

Does it make sense? If so, how to do it?

[Nominal Animal]

Server side is not relevant here.  The content served from the server should always stay the same; all of the layout adjustment is done on the client side, with CSS and JavaScript.

(Even things like loading the best version of an image (that is the focus of the page, so you don't want to leave its scaling up to the browser, and want to use your own finely-prescaled versions instead), is best left to the JavaScript on the client side.)

The HTML <style type="text/css" media="media"> ... </style> and <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="URL" media="media"> tags apply the specified CSS or stylesheet only if the browser used matches the clause in media; see e.g here for the syntax and recognized values.

Most of my layout stuff I do in pure CSS.  I do use the <table> element for actual data tables, and when I need a specific form-type layout and control how fields expand/contract.  If you look at the source HTML of my FIR analysis tool page, sometimes one needs to use JavaScript to fix layout details after the contents has been loaded and laid out (the window.addEventListener("load", recalc); line causes the recalc() function to be called then) or whenever the browser window size changes (the window.addEventListener("resize", redraw); line causes the redraw() function to be called then); in that case, because we want to do an initial plot (no data, though) when the page is first loaded; and because the canvas properties need to be updated to match the current browser window whenever plotting the calculated data.  (To test that page, just put some coefficient, say 1 0 1 0 1, into the "FIR Filter Coefficients" box, and press Enter.)  That one is under 400 lines all told, and all in one file (no server side; it will work fine if you just save the page and use it locally, without a net connection), so even if you're not yet too familiar with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, you should be able to work it out.  I think.

What guidelines to use for the layout itself, is up to a graphic designer, and I ain't one.  Or maybe up to an UX specialist; I'm not sure what the ones who don't just want to make things look stylish, but try to make the content useful and fit for purpose, call themselves nowadays.

Oh, and if someone disagrees, do pipe up, even if you think I sound like I know what I'm doing.  This is human interface stuff, so other opinions and experiences are just as valid here.  (Of course, as I wrote earlier in this thread, I do have reasons for these opinions; I think those reasons are much more interesting and useful than the opinions anyone has based on them.)

[DiTBho]

Ah OK.

I wrote it because a year ago I wrote a "presenter" in PHP that makes the site react differently depending on the incoming IP and other events.

Code: [Select]

function get_presenter
(
    $browser_ip,
    $mode
)
{
[..]
    else if ( server_is_out_of_service() == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/out-of-service.html";
    }
[..]
    else if ( cookie_is_bad() == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/forbidden2.html";
        ban_ip($browser_ip);
    }
[..]
    else if ( is_promo_ip($browser_ip, "Google") == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/Google.html";
    }
    else if ( is_promo_ip($browser_ip, "Yandex") == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/Yandex.html";
    }
    else if ( is_promo_ip($browser_ip, "wayback") == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/forbidden3.html";
    }
    else if ( is_promo_ip($browser_ip, "VPN") == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/forbidden2.html";
    }
    else if ( is_bad_ip($browser_ip) == true )
    {
        $presenter_content_filename="handle/forbidden1.html";
    }
[..]
    $presenter_content = file_get_contents($presenter_content_filename);

    return $presenter_content;
}

It's done for security reasons, it keeps away some attackers and it prevents Google and Yandex to cache the website as well as it doesn't allow a wayback machines to clone the site; before your clarification I was thinking to use something similar to manage the right css filename to be passed from a similar PHP function so it can be included into static html pages.

But it sounds much simpler to you JS code, thank you 

[Nominal Animal]

I wrote it because a year ago I wrote a "presenter" in PHP that makes the site react differently depending on the incoming IP and other events.

Yup; that's a completely different situation.

Another similar server-side choice wrt. what is served is done in many forums, depending on whether the client (browser) has logged in or not.

On the client side, I believe we want to think of JavaScript and CSS as acting behalf of the user – stuff like choosing displayed image sizes; and the server side acts on behalf of the service provider or owner.  This is a crude abstraction, but also works for basic security, because then you avoid bad models like attempting to do security on the client side (trivially bypassable by just modifying the received HTML/JS/CSS), or layout choices on the server side (slow, complicated, and not very responsive wrt. browser window size changes and such).

At least I personally switch between different "agencies" when writing such code.  (A third one is an attacker, wishing to exfiltrate data, or inject data on behalf of another user; a thief or a troll or a script kiddie.)  Devs sometimes joke it takes a dissociative personality to do that, but it's not true; it's just a change in perspective and goal, followed by examination of the implications, followed by bug-fixing.  I do like to have a sleep in between, makes easier to see (perceive details and implications).

If one has difficulty understanding how such two (or more) sides can do "contracts" and provide trust chains (of operations) and such – for example, that the form data submitted is associated with the session that provided login credentials sometime earlier, and not just someone who obtained stale cached data and is replaying the information –, reading overviews of public-key cryptography and key exchange, and the differences between encryption and message verification via cryptographically secure hashes, will help; that way one can discover both the patterns used, as well as how and why they work (and therefore when they can be relied upon, and with which limitations/assumptions).

[MrMobodies]

Homebase website now bloated.

I think I shopped there a couple months ago and the website seemed alright.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210115150429/www.homebase.co.uk/

A change in appearance:
https://web.archive.org/web/20210401135252/https://www.homebase.co.uk/
Some dimming on hovering mouse over the account and basket but no fixed header or widgets and no dimming on search box.



Looks the same initially but now with the nav toolbar fixed and fixed widget (price and delivery) stuck on the side, with the dimming EVERYWHERE on mouse hover on the menu items and all sorts of different element names.

www.homebase.co.uk

The dimming seems very excessive:





Looks better with the UI crap removed and the nav toolbar:

homebase.co.uk###responsiveAccountHeader_overlay
homebase.co.uk###responsiveFlyoutMenu_menuUnderlay.responsiveFlyoutMenu_menuUnderlay-show
homebase.co.uk###menuUnderlay
homebase.co.uk##.responsiveFlyoutMenu_menuUnderlay.responsiveFlyoutMenu_menuUnderlay-show
homebase.co.uk##.responsiveFlyoutBasket_overlay
homebase.co.uk##.responsiveAccountHeader_overlay
homebase.co.uk##.headerSearch_overlay.headerSearch_overlay-show
homebase.co.uk##.emailReengagement.show
homebase.co.uk##.westendHeader

Reminds me a little bit like scan.co.uk with the search box.

No care in the world for the eyes with the dimming but would that be worse for someone with sensory issues?

[SilverSolder]

[...]
No care in the world for the eyes with the dimming but would that be worse for someone with sensory issues?

I read an article recently that said Millennials are not having as much sex as previous generations.  -  could that frustration be a factor in all the bad web designs we are seeing?? 

[MrMobodies]

Joke: or maybe when developing this overlay rubbish to go on websites they were in a dark room with dark mode turned on.

https://www.androidauthority.com/dark-mode-1046425/

Love dark mode? Here’s why you may still want to avoid it
By Adamya Sharma
•April 10, 2021

Do you know that feeling when you’re comfortably sleeping in a dark room, and someone suddenly draws open the curtains to flood the room with sunlight? You feel a sudden shock in that moment because your iris hasn’t adjusted to the amount of light it needs to take in.

When you view things in dark mode for a prolonged period of time, say a few months, your eyes get accustomed to letting in less light. Because of this, when you do look at a bright screen from time to time, you feel a sense of discomfort.

This comes from personal experience. I used dark mode across my phone, PC, and tablet for about three months. When I described my growing aversion to bright screens to a surgeon friend, he explained that this is a pretty common phenomenon that occurs when our eyes get accustomed to dark mode.

Thankfully, he told me that this increase in sensitivity to bright

I am not surprised with the amount of backgound dimming stuff in everything that a "dark mode" was brought into it.

[james_s]

Dark mode itself is I think a band aid in response to the sea of bright white space trend. I have my phone set to switch to dark mode in the evening but many websites still ignore that. Many displays won't even go dim enough to comfortably use in a dark room.

[MrMobodies]

Many of mine are just 60hz.

[james_s]

60Hz was far too low for CRT displays once sizes went above about 15", but I have never had an issue with a 60Hz LCD, they don't flicker when they refresh the way a CRT does so the refresh rate is not nearly as important.

[Ranayna]

Yeah, the refreshrate on LCDs is, in my opinion, overrated.
I have screens with 144Hz, but while i can see the difference when concentrating on it, it is not really noticable in normal use. And i regularly have the difference, since my work notebook can only do 60 Hz in dualscreen mode, while my desktop does 144Hz.
And i agree: modern screens are *way* to bright. I have reduced the brightness on mine to 0, and they are more than bright enough.

[MrMobodies]

PCMAG did away with the uncloseable fixed header on the website.

I noticed it when it didn't just disappear (normally hidden by extension) but scrolled inline with everything else.

2020:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200604203637/https://uk.pcmag.com/sound-cards/127238/corsair-discovers-fault-causing-sf-series-power-supplies-to-fail


2021:
https://uk.pcmag.com/sound-cards/127238/corsair-discovers-fault-causing-sf-series-power-supplies-to-fail


Much better that's what I call an improvement.

Isn't that nice?

I remembered when Ebay tried this last year on the main page with some other navigation thing that changes appearance on scroll.
That's on ARchive to:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200913012152/https://www.ebay.co.uk/


It affected the main navigation bar, once it got hidden on scrolling down it didn't always restore the main nav bar when scrolling back to the top with the HeaderHiderFixer chrome extension.

If it was hidden with the bookmark killer it also hid the main navigation bar.


I complained to the concierge service about it's size, distraction and how I class it as "spammy behaviour" as totally unwanted and an intrusion comparing to Yahoo but in this case it caused problems with hiding it. A couple of weeks later they reverted it back to absolute positioning but changed the colour to black (fine by me) for a couple of days (doesn't seem to be on archive) and reverted back to white to the way it was before.

https://web.archive.org/web/20201006051833/https://www.ebay.co.uk/


If only they had a close button or an option on these things like on archive.org and Duckduckgo I'd find it a lot more pleasant and respectful for my viewing preferences.

[Slartibartfast]

Yeah, the refreshrate on LCDs is, in my opinion, overrated.

For any serious work, yes. For gamers quite possibly not. You get a high-refresh rate screen on your office machine because manufacturers do not bother to produce two types of screens. High-refresh rate caters for everybody.

And i agree: modern screens are *way* to bright.

No, they are not. Not every study is as dimly lit as yours. In a study with a lot of daylight you want a bright screen. I'm very satisfied with the brightness of my LCD screens.

[james_s]

No, they are not. Not every study is as dimly lit as yours. In a study with a lot of daylight you want a bright screen. I'm very satisfied with the brightness of my LCD screens.

It's nice when they are capable of being very bright, but I frequently encounter a problem where screens are incapable of being dim enough. If I wake up at night and want to check something on my phone it is blinding even at the lowest setting. My laptop also doesn't go dim enough for some situations.

[PlainName]

Sunglasses by your bed 

I think too bright is much like too cold - it's more fixable than being too dim or too hot.

[james_s]

But I shouldn't have to work around it, it is not technically difficult to make a very wide dynamic range with a backlight, there is no lower bound for LED drive current. I'm sure the challenge is that they're using PWM, but they could very easily add something to reduce the current for a low range. I have a heat pump in my house so I can easily fix both the too hot and too cold situation, technological solutions exist to all of these problems.

[MrMobodies]

I was looking around out of interest on Argos and their cost of things and it looks to me like it has taken a turn for the worst with all that animated skeleton placeholder UI crap, the spinners and the dimming overlays.

I found some animated "loader" element stuff that flashes and cover up the contents underneath AFTER they had been loaded. I thought how can they be so stupid.
Doesn't seen affect the postcode stuff of changing stores with that animation thing hidden.




Do you think that is just stupid? They place a flashy animated thing over it ... It looks pretence to me and seems to do absolutely nothing useful but set to flash over the already loaded content after every page load thereby becoming a visually nuisance to me.

Long story short:

argos.co.uk##._1wB7G
argos.co.uk##rect[role="presentation"]
argos.co.uk##rect[clip-path="url(#alternatives-title-diff)"]
argos.co.uk##rect[style="fill: url(\"#alternatives-title-animated-diff\") none;"]
argos.co.uk##component-att-modal-overlay
argos.co.uk###haas-ac-results
argos.co.uk##._1d3T8
argos.co.uk###uyqbr9-aria
argos.co.uk##.fulfilment-msg-panel
argos.co.uk##.haas-ac-results
argos.co.uk##.Drawerstyles__Overlay-sc-7kh0ae-7.efpEUu
argos.co.uk##.Drawerstyles__Overlay-sc-7kh0ae-7
argos.co.uk##.Modalstyles__Container-ibf6bf-0.emkOrN
argos.co.uk##.Modalstyles__Container-ibf6bf-0
argos.co.uk##.LoadingSpinnerstyles__Container-jh1ih-0
argos.co.uk##.LoadingSpinnerstyles__Container-jh1ih-0.dYCOju
argos.co.uk###loading-spinner
argos.co.uk###pc-content-loader--default-aria
argos.co.uk##.ProductCardSkeletonstyles__Wrapper-sc-1id8e4v-0
argos.co.uk##.StickyBarstyles__Container-o4nv2n-0.ktSTRj
argos.co.uk##alternatives-title-aria
argos.co.uk##.ProductCardSkeletonstyles__Wrapper-sc-1id8e4v-0.deUngk
argos.co.uk##.ProductCardSkeletonstyles__Wrapper-sc-1id8e4v-0
argos.co.uk##.StickyBarstyles__Container-o4nv2n-0.ktSTRj
argos.co.uk#.eJPuED.StoreSelectorstyles__ModalOverlay-sc-764iux-4
argos.co.uk##.tagg-reset.tagg-balloon.tagg-quantity_orders.tagg-QP
argos.co.uk##.tagg-reset.tagg-balloon.tagg-audience.tagg-RAP

Would someone like to test out https://www.Argos.co.uk and then with the adblock elements above and compare to see if these things are really needed on the page?

[Tomorokoshi]

My latest "favorite":
https://ec.kemet.com/resources/white-papers/

Authors get paid by the word.
Programmers get paid by the line.
Web page developers get paid by the white space.

[james_s]

Gives me a headache just looking at it. Light gray on all that blinding bright white. The bright white UI trend reminds me of standing in the middle of a brilliantly lit empty warehouse with a plain white floor, white walls and white ceiling.

[MrMobodies]

Joke: I see, so like with Argos the web page developers are getting paid to cover over the content with "the white spaces" such as that animated skeleton placeholder thing that flashes on and off.

[bd139]

I'm not going to post it here but our corp web site is the worst. The stuff all slides into view as you scroll it and you have to scroll at least 5 times. And there's about 50 words on the front page entirely and a graphic design which I can only describe as "abstract space minion dressed in bad 1970s palette". No one has ever heard of us or knows what we do, this isn't helping and the entire executive and marketing team are clapping and back patting like an army of demented seals over it.

What's more is I'm sure our existing customers didn't want to have to pay for it.

[madires]

Two decades ago we were worried about HTML editors and frameworks creating too bloated webpages. Today we have bloat³pages. But hey, they look nice. And we have a reason to upgrade our internet access - to be able to keep up with that bloat. Maybe we should impose a CO₂ tax for bloatpages.

[mc172]

My latest "favorite":
https://ec.kemet.com/resources/white-papers/

Authors get paid by the word.
Programmers get paid by the line.
Web page developers get paid by the white space.

I love how it takes excessively long when scrolling to load a few more instances of the same picture that is already loaded (4 times) and a handful of words!

[bd139]

Two decades ago we were worried about HTML editors and frameworks creating too bloated webpages. Today we have bloat³pages. But hey, they look nice. And we have a reason to upgrade our internet access - to be able to keep up with that bloat. Maybe we should impose a CO₂ tax for bloatpages.

That actually sort of exists at the moment. Basically everyone moved to AWS which charges a fortune for outbound bandwidth. Some of my day job is keeping those costs managed which I charge a lot for 

What we need now is “requester bills” ie the client charges the server of the content for watts burned on the client to recompile and render their shit on every click.

I had an argument about a year ago on HN about this. Someone took offence to me adblocking to keep garbage off my shit and stop using my electricity up. They demanded that was a bad idea and it’d hurt their business. So basically it told them that the only valuable content they were shipping were adverts and they should shut down. I got a sob story.  They got told “boo fucking hoo”. This resulted in me being hellbanned again 

[james_s]

Even worse than the blinding white trend is something I'm seeing more and more, you simply mouse over the wrong area of the screen and a great huge menu/overlay pops up obstructing what you're trying to see. It's absolutely obnoxious, I cannot for the life of me figure out what anyone is thinking when they implement something like that. Nothing should ever pop up just by moving the mouse pointer around.

[bd139]

I think that’s probably because all the designers I see seem to have 32” 4K monitors. Us mere mortals tend not to.

[SilverSolder]

I think that’s probably because all the designers I see seem to have 32” 4K monitors. Us mere mortals tend not to.

Even with a big monitor, modern web designer can't seem to make use of more than a handful of pixels at a time.

E.g. the example referenced by @Tomorokoshi ( https://ec.kemet.com/resources/white-papers/ ) manages to display one row of tabular data per page on a 24" monitor...

These guys should really find a job designing baby toys for Fisher-Price and stay away from internet design entirely!

[PlainName]

you simply mouse over the wrong area of the screen and a great huge menu/overlay pops up obstructing what you're trying to see.

Yep, hate that. Just as bad when the popup isn't an overlay and the contents move to accommodate it.

Another favourite hate is when there is no dead space . That is, you can't click anywhere in the window without triggering something - even the white space triggers whatever it surrounds. The designers must never switch away to do something and then use a mouse click to get focus back to the window.

[MrMobodies]

you simply mouse over the wrong area of the screen and a great huge menu/overlay pops up obstructing what you're trying to see.

Yep, hate that. Just as bad when the popup isn't an overlay and the contents move to accommodate it.

I hid one of those yesterday that was behind a dialogue:
account.microsoft.com##.ms-Overlay.ms-Overlay--dark.root-361

And some some weeks ago:
travisperkins.co.uk##.Search__SearchOverlay-sc-17h69re-4.kxZlVg
screwfix.com##.lb-overlay.js--close-Lightbox

If they are the child elements I will hide them when possible.

I'd like one day to make a Greasemonkey script to deal with them in such a way that when the overlays are set as the parent element it doesn't also kill the dialogues or whatever is underneath.

[james_s]

The worst one I encounter regularly is the local news site https://komonews.com/. If you happen to mouse over the nav bar at the top an overlay pops up that obstructs the entire screen and sometimes it's hard to make it go away. I cannot even fathom why somebody thought that was desirable behavior. 20 years ago they had a very nice clean site that just worked.

[MrMobodies]

The worst one I encounter regularly is the local news site https://komonews.com/. If you happen to mouse over the nav bar at the top an 1 overlay pops up that 2 obstructs the entire screen.

Give these a try with Ublock/Adblock:

1 Hide background dimming overlays:

komonews.com##.HamburgerHeader-module_Background__3V3I
komonews.com###sidebar-overlay-lightbox-7094b472-8383-4bc8-bc22-7623d81ef35c-1632541368741
komonews.com##.fb_lightbox-overlay.fb_lightbox-overlay-fixed
komonews.com##.fb_lightbox-overlay
komonews.com##.fb_lightbox-overlay-fixed
komonews.com###pop-div08593586493368142
komonews.com##.truste_overlay
consent-pref.trustarc.com##.gwt-Image
consent-pref.trustarc.com##[src="images/loader.gif"]
seattlerefined.com###pop-div0998072506697314
seattlerefined.com##.truste_overlay
##.truste_overlay
##[src="images/loader.gif"]

2 Hide submenu popouts (content seems to already be displayed when clicking navigation items to the next page a bit like the not needed Ebay Basket and purchase bar that I hid:)

komonews.com##.HamburgerHeader-module_SubnavLinkWrapper__OMHl.hamburgerNavFooter-theme
komonews.com##.TeaserRow-module_TeaserRowWrapper__3VRF
komonews.com###js-SubNav-Container
komonews.com##DIV[style="position: relative; overflow: scroll; margin-right: -16px; margin-bottom: -16px; min-height: 16px; max-height: 655px;"]
komonews.com##.HamburgerHeader-module_SubnavWrapper__3siD
komonews.com##.HamburgerHeader-module_UserContentWrapper__3ir2
komonews.com##.hamburgerNavFooter-theme.HamburgerHeader-module_SubnavLinkWrapper__OMHl
komonews.com##.Spinner-module_spinner__1q2E

Unfortunately when these two elements below (also listed somwhere above) are hidden (background popout frame) it also kills the Hamburger menu content on the top left when activated by clicking it where it does nothing.

komonews.com##.HamburgerHeader-module_SubnavWrapper__3siD
komonews.com##DIV[style="position: relative; overflow: scroll; margin-right: -16px; margin-bottom: -16px; min-height: 16px; max-height: 655px;"]

[james_s]

With enough messing around I'm sure I could block it, but usually that sort of thing has side effects and then every time they make changes to the page it breaks it. I really would like if that stupid trend just went away since that news site is not the only place that does it, it's just the most reliably annoying example I could think of.

[MrMobodies]

Well here's another trend I find stupid like this one I think from some parts of the Cisco site that delayed the page for about a second last year and just a day ago Google search.

Code: [Select]

cisco.com##.cdc.no-nav-wc.ready
cisco.com##.cdc.no-nav-wc
cisco.com##.spinner-wheel
It intermittently started to fade/flash yesterday and now seems permanent when changing the input text and search.



Hiding ###Stev-9 (that fades the content) just hides the results so that's a shame.

I find that very annoying.

See attachment it changes the string and includes "animation" and "transition".

The page load before seems very quick so I wonder why does it need to be there?
Transitioning from page to page wasn't a problem for me before until now where they set it flash or fade or whatever it is called.

I have an old copy of Chrome 79 (running a number of profiles) for testing stuff and it doesn't seem to do it on any of those at the moment apart from Vivaldi.

On the other hand, DuckduckGo that seems to be showing more relevant results to I am looking for.

Just checked and didn't do it on my other computer running Vivladi.
Cleared cache and it stopped doing it, maybe they were experimenting some days ago, withdrew it but it stayed in cache.

[bitwelder]

Even worse than the blinding white trend is something I'm seeing more and more, you simply mouse over the wrong area of the screen and a great huge menu/overlay pops up obstructing what you're trying to see.

Oh, that reminds me of another annoying feature of 'modern' websites: THE CHAT BOT.
Maybe you know exactly which sequence of menus you have to select to find the information you want but no, the chat bot pops up and begs you to ask something... 

[james_s]

Oh, that reminds me of another annoying feature of 'modern' websites: THE CHAT BOT.
Maybe you know exactly which sequence of menus you have to select to find the information you want but no, the chat bot pops up and begs you to ask something... 

OMG yes, those chat bots are universally useless, it is downright insulting that companies think they will be in any way helpful or a useful replacement of a real person. It's even more insulting that they try to make them look like they are actual people.

[MrMobodies]

Oh, that reminds me of another annoying feature of 'modern' websites: THE CHAT BOT.
Maybe you know exactly which sequence of menus you have to select to find the information you want but no, the chat bot pops up and begs you to ask something... 

OMG yes, those chat bots are universally useless, it is downright insulting that companies think they will be in any way helpful or a useful replacement of a real person. It's even more insulting that they try to make them look like they are actual people.

Joke: Maybe that is their way of "Reaching out to you":
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/no-you-didnt-reach-out-you-contacted-them/


So I see what seems to be a growing trend with calling elements that cover up stuff up a "loader."


Looks like Paypal checkout added some more animated/placeholder stuff and renamed ".react-Loader" to ".app-loader".

Code: [Select]

paypal.com##.app-loader-profile
paypal.com###app-loader
paypal.com##.app-loader
##.app-loader-profile
##.app-loader-inner

ebay.co.uk##.lightbox-dialog.lightbox-dialog--mask-fade
ebay.co.uk##.m-quick-nav
ebay.co.uk##.m-throbber.container-throbber
ebay.com##.main-container--loading
ebay.co.uk##.loading-block.heightForloading-block
ebay.co.uk###vilens-modal-backdrop0
ebay.co.uk##.vilens-modal-backdrop
##.main-container--loading
##.loading-block heightForloading-block
ebay.co.uk##.page-notice.page-notice--information.s-message
ebay.co.uk###s0-14-11-6-3-query_answer1-answer-2-1-0-list
ebay.co.uk##.carousel__list
pay.ebay.co.uk##.ReactModal__Overlay.ReactModal__Overlay--after-open.action-confirmation-modal--spoke-overlay.split-order-overlay
paypal.com##svg[preserveAspectRatio="xMinYMin meet"]
paypal.com##svg[viewBox="0 0 300 135"]
paypal.com##rect[fill="url(#xorc-uid-9n221784811598631623807596169)"]
paypal.com###js_spinner-txnId_7RJ98176R0550971U
paypal.com###js_spinner-txnId_74501027X4416435F
paypal.com##.detailedView.hasSpinner
paypal.com###js_spinner-txnId_74501027X4416435F
paypal.com##.detailedView.hasSpinner
paypal.com##.hasSpinner
paypal.com##.vx_has-spinner-large.spinner_fullScreen.test_has_spinner
paypal.com##.vx_has-spinner-large
paypal.com##.vx_has-spinner-medium
paypal.com##.vx_has-spinner-small
paypal.com##.spinner_fullScreen.test_has_spinner
paypal.com##.test_has_spinner
rightmove.co.uk##.V55PrQEhVQvTJSkSCA1R
payments.wikimedia.org###overlay
paypal.com##.loaderOverlay
paypal.com##.modal-animate
paypal.com##.rotate
###preloaderSpinner
paypal.com##.spinWrap
paypal.com##.spinnerImage
paypal.com##.loader
paypal.com##.transactionCollection.hasSpinner
paypal.com##.transitioning.spinner
paypal.com##.detailedView.hasSpinner
paypal.com##.react-Loader
Now those are also hidden it just loads up to to payment stuff with the cards, I select okay and comes out and that is it like the way it was before.

I don't want to have things flashed in my face everytime I pay for stuff thank you very much.

[Deodand2014]

Oh, that reminds me of another annoying feature of 'modern' websites: THE CHAT BOT.
Maybe you know exactly which sequence of menus you have to select to find the information you want but no, the chat bot pops up and begs you to ask something... 

OMG yes, those chat bots are universally useless, it is downright insulting that companies think they will be in any way helpful or a useful replacement of a real person. It's even more insulting that they try to make them look like they are actual people.

Speaking as someone who actually fell for a chat bot on a website, I can testify just how frustrating it is to realise that you are communicating with software giving canned responses rather than a person, it defeats the whole point of having a 'chat button'.

[SilverSolder]

Oh, that reminds me of another annoying feature of 'modern' websites: THE CHAT BOT.
Maybe you know exactly which sequence of menus you have to select to find the information you want but no, the chat bot pops up and begs you to ask something... 

OMG yes, those chat bots are universally useless, it is downright insulting that companies think they will be in any way helpful or a useful replacement of a real person. It's even more insulting that they try to make them look like they are actual people.

Speaking as someone who actually fell for a chat bot on a website, I can testify just how frustrating it is to realise that you are communicating with software giving canned responses rather than a person, it defeats the whole point of having a 'chat button'.

Sounds like the bot passed the Turing Test, at least for a little while?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test

[MrMobodies]

I normally ignore chat applets/bots and just close them or hide them if there is no close button

I'd thought I'd have a look at Facebook. I rarely use it but it looks like placeholder stuff was added.

See delay over the menu contents:


I don't know why anybody would want their menu items delayed anyway seems much quicker without all that pretence crap (see attachments) but the contents on some pages do seem to take a couple of seconds or so to load.

New elements and space between previous elements:

Code: [Select]

facebook.com##.j83agx80.pybr56ya.hv4rvrfc.f10w8fjw.dati1w0a
facebook.com##.j83agx80.kwzhilbh.cuf2vfke.hv4rvrfc.ihqw7lf3.dati1w0a
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facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.dwerhba3.kgjeooe1.kxcb68kb.mwvzfrdb.bsodd3zb.km676qkl.cxmmr5t8.myj7ivm5.hcukyx3x.gjzvkazv
facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.ed3p1gfi.l82x9zwi.uo3d90p7.pw54ja7n.ue3kfks5.a8yuo7t3
facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.ue3kfks5.pw54ja7n.uo3d90p7.l82x9zwi.ed3p1gfi.pfqjqu37
facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.tv7at329.thwo4zme.s45kfl79.emlxlaya.bkmhp75w.spb7xbtv
facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.ue3kfks5.pw54ja7n.uo3d90p7.l82x9zwi.ed3p1gfi.k4urcfbm
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.ed3p1gfi.l82x9zwi.uo3d90p7.pw54ja7n.ue3kfks5.mwd26vqw
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.p1kohep7.gl3lb2sf.l82x9zwi.uo3d90p7.pw54ja7n.ue3kfks5
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.obglhq91.aov4n071.dhix69tm.gl3lb2sf.l82x9zwi.uo3d90p7.pw54ja7n.ue3kfks5
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.q676j6op.oi9244e8.qypqp5cg.emzo65vh.fmqxjp7s.czkt41v7.orhb3f3m
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.i63q9h9i.aov4n071.gl3lb2sf.l82x9zwi.uo3d90p7.pw54ja7n.ue3kfks5
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.jbcpqwzg.dhix69tm.gl3lb2sf.l82x9zwi.uo3d90p7.pw54ja7n.ue3kfks5
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.t6lsiwyf.am38r5jf.kzx2olss.aot14ch1.p86d2i9g.beltcj47.n851cfcs
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.a2n8s7i9.ed3p1gfi.kbv20vi1.p0leutie.inxzxsdm.r3sa2fe4.n851cfcs
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facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.kc0xjvvi.tv7at329.kzx2olss.aot14ch1.p86d2i9g.beltcj47
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facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw
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facebook.com##.e3i2l2qs
facebook.com##._3ob9
facebook.com##.sp_3NpjkfpyXiB.sx_a98b0c
facebook.com##.__fb-dark-mode.ms7hmo2b.ue3kfks5.pw54ja7n.uo3d90p7.l82x9zwi.r92hip7p.a8c37x1j.dicw6rsg.rs0gx3tq.bkm5gps7.pedkr2u6.pybr56ya.d1544ag0.f10w8fjw.tw6a2znq.l9j0dhe7.ijkhr0an.art1omkt.s13u9afw

facebook.com##._2q22
facebook.com##._2q20._2ph-
facebook.com###u_0_1j_vj
facebook.com##._3ob9
facebook.com###u_0_1i_eu
facebook.com##._5hn6
m.facebook.com##._5m_w
facebook.com##.rfe5e1s5
facebook.com##.sp_3NpjkfpyXiB.sx_a98b0c
facebook.com##.oajrlxb2.gs1a9yip.g5ia77u1.mtkw9kbi.tlpljxtp.qensuy8j.ppp5ayq2.goun2846.ccm00jje.s44p3ltw.mk2mc5f4.rt8b4zig.n8ej3o3l.agehan2d.sk4xxmp2.rq0escxv.nhd2j8a9.q9uorilb.mg4g778l.btwxx1t3.pfnyh3mw.p7hjln8o.kvgmc6g5.cxmmr5t8.oygrvhab.hcukyx3x.tgvbjcpo.hpfvmrgz.jb3vyjys.rz4wbd8a.qt6c0cv9.a8nywdso.l9j0dhe7.i1ao9s8h.esuyzwwr.f1sip0of.du4w35lb.lzcic4wl.abiwlrkh.p8dawk7l.pedkr2u6.ms05siws.pnx7fd3z.nf1dmkjp.s0qqerhg
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||facebook.com/images/video/play_24dp.png
||facebook.com/images/video/play_48dp.png
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facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.n1l5q3vz.cxmmr5t8.n851cfcs.hcukyx3x.ue3kfks5.pw54ja7n.uo3d90p7.l82x9zwi.fbgwweev.p1ueia1e
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.n1l5q3vz.cxmmr5t8.n851cfcs.hcukyx3x.ue3kfks5.pw54ja7n.uo3d90p7.l82x9zwi.k4urcfbm.p1ueia1e
facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.dwerhba3.kgjeooe1.kxcb68kb.mwvzfrdb.bsodd3zb.km676qkl.jdf3zdat
facebook.com##.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.s45kfl79.emlxlaya.bkmhp75w.spb7xbtv.qypqp5cg.oi9244e8.q676j6op
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.i8j84fko.sjgh65i0.i4qgphn6.hc21y3pz.c6w6u7b1.mjfe6jtr.h1ci2mql
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.df5l467t.sjgh65i0.bsodd3zb.mwvzfrdb.kxcb68kb.kgjeooe1.dwerhba3
facebook.com##.lzcic4wl.afxn4irw.r8dsh44q.ee40wjg4.skuavjfj.ku44ohm1.g6srhlxm.lszeityy.sjgh65i0.bsodd3zb.mwvzfrdb.kxcb68kb.kgjeooe1.dwerhba3.jfxy0k1q
facebook.com##.i09qtzwb.n7fi1qx3.poy2od1o.j9ispegn.kr520xx4.ms7hmo2b
facebook.com##.i09qtzwb.n7fi1qx3.kgtf8isp.pmk7jnqg.j9ispegn.kr520xx4

[MrMobodies]

I was a infuriated to find this despite all the negative feedback I left over the years about this practice of dimming large parts of the page and hurting my eyes.



And there is the "APP", where possibly I'd have no control with no extensions to hide all that UI crap that I have been hiding over the years.

That looks to me like it wasn't even aimed at a tablet/mobile user but desktop users to attract them put up mindlessly.

If it didn't dim the rest of the page like that I wouldn't have felt so offended.

Forgot to name the dimming element for the above for Adblock:

##.dialog.dialog--mask-fade

[DiTBho]

I don't really like the Javascript abuse that people like to do these days. There are too many scripts running, too complex and usually useless.

Why did "eBay" crash Firefox yesterday? I saw the message "a script is out of control". I clicked on "stop script" but Firefox crashed.

What the frog. A web application that can crash a program in userspace. That's very worried 

[Nominal Animal]

Fully agreed w/Javascript!

It's useful for interactive functionality (like say EasyEDA), but the endless AJAX "let me load some content for you" and useless transitions and flashers and such... Oh man I hate those.

[MrMobodies]

I don't really like the Javascript abuse that people like to do these days. There are too many scripts running, too complex and usually useless.

Looking at ebay and just noticed the scrollbars disappeared.

What the hell is going on? Refresh the pages scroll and same thing happens.

Turned off adblock and that dimming "App" thing appears again.

Hiding the scrollbar, now isn't that classed as SCROLL JACKING?

Absolutely obnoxious spammy behaviour coming from ebay.

I am going to have to phone up on Monday the Concierge service and make a complaint.

Having the scroll bars taken away is one of the worst things I despise.

[DiTBho]

The new hype seems to be approaching entire web development with SvelteKit and TailwindCSS. At least that means "static adapter", which has less bugs than things based on database (code injection? input-fields sanitificazion?), SvelteKit outputs HTML, CSS and JS, but it has its own "module language" and somehow compiles Vanilla Javascript.

That's worrying for me, especially because people here don't even control the results and the quality of the results, what people care about is * if * tools like Svelte can accelerate development.

[eti]

Google “AMP” is the biggest mess ever and needs to retire - I’m sure it will - Google’s forte is ditching things.

[MrMobodies]

Came across this site looking for something and when trying to type into the search box it kept on stalling and results and a number of things would appear underneath and would not give me a chance to finish.

https://www.seeedstudio.com/ZKETCHE-EBD-USB-Voltage-and-Current-Monitor-support-QC2-0-3-0-MTK-PE-p-4520.html



So I hid that and on searching I was infuriated to find it full of this page delaying preloading crap:

Code: [Select]

seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-container
##.preload-template-container
seeedstudio.com##.preload-header
##.preload-header
seeedstudio.com##.preload-header-wrap
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo
##.preload-header-wrap
##.preload-logo.preload-mark
##.preload-mark
##.preload-logo
seeedstudio.com##.preload-category
seeedstudio.com##.preload-search.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-cart.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-login.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-wrap
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-left
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-left-item.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-right
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-right-filter
seeedstudio.com##.f-item.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-item
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-item-wrap
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-img.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-name.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-price.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-sku.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-img
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-name
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-price
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-sku
##.preload-category
##.preload-search.preload-mark
##.preload-cart.preload-mark
##.preload-login.preload-mark
##.preload-template-wrap
##.preload-template-left
##.preload-template-left-item.preload-mark
##.preload-template-right
##.preload-template-right-filter
##.f-item.preload-mark
##.preload-product-item
##.preload-product-item-wrap
##.preload-product-img.preload-mark
##.preload-product-name.preload-mark
##.preload-product-price.preload-mark
##.preload-product-sku.preload-mark
##.preload-product-img
##.preload-product-name
##.preload-product-price
##.preload-product-sku
seeedstudio.com##.result-section-list
##.result-section-list
seeedstudio.com##.result-section-title
seeedstudio.com##.mst-searchautocomplete__empty-result.header-empty-search
##.mst-searchautocomplete__empty-result.header-empty-search
seeedstudio.com##.result-show-all-sections
seeedstudio.com##.mst-searchautocomplete__spinner.search-result-predraw
##.mst-searchautocomplete__spinner.search-result-predraw
##.mst-searchautocomplete__spinner
||static-cdn.seeedstudio.com/static/version1635739562/frontend/bs_complex/bs_complex5/en_US/images/loader-1.gif
||static-cdn.seeedstudio.com/static/version1635739562/frontend/bs_complex/bs_complex5/en_US/images/loader-2.gif
static/version1635739562/frontend/bs_complex/bs_complex5/en_US/images/loader-1.gif
static/version1635739562/frontend/bs_complex/bs_complex5/en_US/images/loader-2.gif
Absolutely hate these things as well as the shadow under the fixed header but that is hidden and restored at the top by extensions.

The amount of time spent loading the rubbish that I hid above could be better spent loading the real contents.


Another one that flashes on and off this time on Google maps:


Adblock/Ublock:

Code: [Select]

##.e8RnDf-loading.Sfbe8b-RWgCYc.uncsgb
##.e8RnDf-loading
##.ksv87-Tswv1b-loading-haAclf
##.e8RnDf-loading.Sfbe8b-RWgCYc.OtiZxd
##.e8RnDf-loading.Sfbe8b-RWgCYc.rUBclf

[MrMobodies]

Despite complaining many weeks ago Ebay is stilll doing this but a lot more.

Just now with the help of Ublock logger I found what I believe to be the culprit and works with Adblock:
||ir.ebaystatic.com/rs/c/widgetplatform-OiX3Xm3A.js

I was going into developer tools to manually turn the overscroll bars back on and some things started to look a bit misplaced and just remembered the logger from ublock.

The script above appears very large and looks to me like it might be doing a number of things so I am wondering by preventing it from working will it break stuff on Ebay.

I'll have to see what happens.

[Ranayna]

Saw this in the 3D Printing subforum, and thought this would fit here:

https://www.biqu.equipment/products/h2o-extruder?variant=39522854862946

Animated Snowflakes... Are we in the 90s? My poor mobile processor went crazy when stay there for more than a couple of seconds. Not that i want to, because of the next reason:
I immediately got nagged by that stupid chatbot. Not only visually, but with a audible fake notification as well. 

Not that i am in the market for a watercooled extruder anyway, but with that website i would never buy there.

[MrMobodies]

https://www.biqu.equipment/products/h2o-extruder?variant=39522854862946

Animated Snowflakes...

||cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0184/4255/1360/files/xmas-snowstorm.min.js
||cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0184/4255/1360/files/xmas-santaclaus.min.js
||cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0184/4255/1360/files/xmas-flakes.min.js
||cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0184/4255/1360/files/xmas-cornerdecor.min
||Cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0184/4255/1360/files/xmas.v6.scss.css
||cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0184/4255/1360/files/xmas.v6.min.js
biqu.equipment##.drawer__overlay
paypal.com##.dynamic-checkout__skeleton
paypal.com##.placeholder-line--animated
##.dynamic-checkout__skeleton
##.placeholder-line--animated

got nagged by that stupid chatbot.

||widget-v4.tidiochat.com/1_80_0/static/js/chunk-WidgetIframe-106c619fdca921c17d56.js
||widget-v4.tidiochat.com//tururu.mp3

Turned off Adblock, ublock, Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer, removed hosts to try and make that fake notification appear. I noticed with the fixed header showing with the extension turned off that it is looking all spammy/spammy toolbars stuck there that I always despised and take great offense that I find no different to the customers who had all these unwanted browser toolbars over ten years ago that came bundled with things that they removed but kept on reinstalling except now embedded on the webpage in the form of these things by them just setting absolute to fixed positioning.

SPAMMY behaviour:


I remembered at first of being accused of aggression or I got sarcastic responses when I use to email websites that I frequently used with complaints about them in about 2016 when they just started to appear with a message like this:

"This is my screen and browsing area, not yours, I will not have you interfere with my viewing area and SPAM me with great big unwanted toolbars/widgets that I don't want to constantly see stuck there that get in the way of the contents/restricts it and distract/annoy me that can't be hidden.

Adblock:
<Element name>
Much better now I can see what I am doing without the bloat.

Absolutely SPAMMY behaviour with no regard for user preference.

I want to be left alone to view the contents in peace like before without the intrusion and harassment unwanted fixed toolbars and widgets that appear and follow down the page.

Imagine going into a shop on the high street and as a shop owner, I hypothetically stick something in a fixed part of your vision, with the stores logos and showing you stuff and offers that you may not want to constantly see, no matter where you look, until you leave, now how would feel?

How dare you interefere like this... it's my browsing area, my screen... keep your filthy hands off it.

Maybe it was aggressive, yes I was angry but that was how I felt about it at the time of the intrusion of these things.

[SilverSolder]

You are putting up a good fight against the forces of evil, @MrMobodies.   For most of us, I think it is too late - the ship has left the port, and the only choice we have now is like with old style television sets:  "If you don't like the program - Turn it off!"   

[Terry Bites]

Migraines-Siezures- Tears of Blood. Show me the way to F'in products on page 1.
I dont care about your new logo or latest take over.
But allegedly customers demand this crap. And respond positivley to pointless animation &c. 
Looking for products and spec and prices and non-availabilty is all fun fun fun!
Perhaps, as one senisble company has done is to have separate portals for engineers and another for whoever.

It all went to crap then the TV started telling us that having a shave was the same as driving an F1 car and shampoo casued spontaneous orgasms.
Web dseigners are ...................................... and we all  know that.

[MrMobodies]

It's not often I look at search terms for Quora but now see this stupid crap (or has it changed?) with animated loading and placeholders.
According to my blocklist line 3234 there was one: quora.com##.LoadingDots__Dot-sc-1r7wywh-0.iZIjlU


Quora.com###loader


Unfortunately hiding the skeleton/placeholder crap .qbox also kills everything else.

I noticed quite a few of this stuff including the .loader element referenced to W3schools and I have seen this before on other sites.
https://www.w3schools.com/

I remembered using that sometimes and one occasion where it proved hand when trying to embedded some stuff through a portal.
I wonder if they are being encouraged at some point to do this sort of thing.

Search:

Dim the rest of the page with a tiny white toolbar and hurt my eyes.
Seeing all that crap above I knew this was likely to happen.

The dimming overlay looks like a recent thing:
quora.com##.q-fixed.qu-full.qu-zIndex--search_overlay.qu-bg--black_transparent_dark.CssComponent-sc-1oskqb9-0.cXjXFI

When clicking any links gives me this but just found I have to clear cookies:



Now dim it with a tiny white dialogue.

Looking spammy and offputting to me I think I'd be adding that to my list of excluded websites in the search suggestion -"quora.com"

At the same time they DID let me see the contents compared to other sites that show a description but link to nothing but a sign up portal.

[WasapRo]

After installing the adblock, I just forgot about what advertising is. There are no annoying windows on YouTube or pop-up ads in online stores. However, my adblock does not cope with all advertising and some of the visual advertising on the sites still appear. Can anyone advise how to reconfigure the ad block so that it hides ads more effectively? Or is it easier to change the adblock?

[PlainName]

Might help if you say what adblock you're using. Then you won't get suggestions to use that one

[MrMobodies]

I use for Chrome:

ABP plus:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/adblock-plus-free-ad-bloc/cfhdojbkjhnklbpkdaibdccddilifddb

My blocklist:
Web UI annoyances Suggestions/page dimming overlays/spinners/animated skeleton placeholder blocklist (on imgur and also attached)
https://pastebin.com/sCrFH1Rc
Beware some things may not work attimes where I historically added wildcards so I keep a list and sometimes spend hours finding them to remove of the list.

Fixed header control:
Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sticky-header-hider-aka-f/eagncneohcoiofhknkofdobphnhgblad

There is a new one StickyDucky that works for Firefox and Chrome:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/sticky-ducky/
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sticky-ducky/gklhneccajklhledmencldobkjjpnhkd?hl=en

Javascript switcher for when a website may suddenly start interfering with the contents and do horrible spammy things:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/quick-javascript-switcher/geddoclleiomckbhadiaipdggiiccfje
Sometimes it works but no longer on some like Quora as I discovered above with the changes they made.

Ublock just as good as ABP plus and better which is handy for identifying elements:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ublock-origin/cjpalhdlnbpafiamejdnhcphjbkeiagm

My blocklist does not block any adverts, unless they happen to be in a fixed/sticky position specific to a certain website embedded in it's own element name. I turn off the remove the built in Easylist filter lists and give many of them a chance. I may use Fanboy's list of social annoyances (that hides annoying popup sharing icons to Facebook and twitter icons) that appear on hover/right click. I try not  to block adverts as long as they are behaved, can be reported if they step out of line and from trusted sites and I know they help pay for their revenue.

https://fanboy.co.nz/
Anti-Facebook Filters

There was one I had to turn CSS (where DisableScrollJacking below fails to prevent websites hiding the scrollbars)
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/disable-scroll-jacking/ehpdicggenhgapiikfpnmppdonadlnmp?hl=en
that I rarely used but disappeared somehere on some profile that I'll try to find later.

[MrMobodies]

Just researching on someone and found an article that wouldn't load after the cookie notice and dimming overlay:
https://archivesit.org.uk/interviews/lord-kenneth-baker/

archivesit.org.uk###ccc-overlay

I wonder, is that another one of those fake loading animated spinners overlays refusing to let me see the article behind it:

archivesit.org.uk##.se-pre-con


I guess the fake "preloading" thing is more important than the article itself that it is set to stay ontop

Looking further a second time the spinner did appear and disappear after a couple of seconds with the rule removed (to make it show again) so I am not sure why it hanged on the first occasion.

It it set is set to fade/flash on every page load/link delaying it by covering the contents up by a couple of seconds.
Very stupid as the article seems to load instantly with the fake loading spinner overlay hidden.

I wonder.. who thought that was an excellent idea and not one that can cause inconvenience and annoyance.

[MrMobodies]

I have just discovered a change on Ebay in "Sellers store" so I switched off the extensions to see what would happen:


Also new feedback form with a dimming overlay.

They used the same class element name but added esp at the beginning:

ebay.co.uk###esp-oly-mask

Massive big spammy toolbar:

ebay.co.uk##.str-mini-header-wrap
ebay.co.uk##.str-controlbar-wrap.sticky

See all... a bit like that thread I started a while back on "click here to see more."

At the moment clicking that leads to the old design with the page numbers.

I wonder will they do away without that soon and then I could be clicking that "See all" button and scrolling repetitively or forever endlessly just to find things with no way to track and no clue as to how far I am when looking at seller's listings especially if they have a lot to list. Another stupid idea being implemented by Ebay.

Maybe I should phone Ebay Concierge server later  to complain about before it is too late.

[YurkshireLad]

Here's a prime example of the crappy state of modern websites:
 * Immediate pop up that stops you reading the content, which you are forced to close - CHECK
 * Cookie confirmation dialog - CHECK
 * Pointless chat dialog with useless bot - CHECK
 * Massive images that pad out the content and add nothing to the content - CHECK
 * Massive, annoying header that resizes as you scroll and restricts your view of content - CHECK

https://www.wellpcb.com/usb-pinout.html

So overall, I give it a 10/10 rating on the "s****y site to avoid " scale. 

[SilverSolder]

Here's a prime example of the crappy state of modern websites:
 * Immediate pop up that stops you reading the content, which you are forced to close - CHECK
 * Cookie confirmation dialog - CHECK
 * Pointless chat dialog with useless bot - CHECK
 * Massive images that pad out the content and add nothing to the content - CHECK
 * Massive, annoying header that resizes as you scroll and restricts your view of content - CHECK

https://www.wellpcb.com/usb-pinout.html

So overall, I give it a 10/10 rating on the "s****y site to avoid " scale. 

Another irritating thing many sites do nowadays is:

* When moving the mouse pointer away from the browser:  Immediately popup browser-filling crap to capture your attention just one last time before you go.

Even if you were reading the site and just moved the mouse to take notes or something.

Numpties, shouldn't be let near a computer.

[MrMobodies]

Here's a prime example of the crappy state of modern websites:
 * Immediate pop up that stops you reading the content, which you are forced to close - CHECK

Hiding the first dimming overlay:

wellpcb.com###elementor-popup-modal-57398
wellpcb.com##.dialog-widget.dialog-lightbox-widget.dialog-type-buttons.dialog-type-lightbox.elementor-popup-modal

Doesn't seem to hide the scrollbars that time.

* Massive images that pad out the content and add nothing to the content - CHECK

Look to me like a stock photo put up with little effort or taste just slapped there.

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitOrqhWQcutKdIBC728sLo2eocN_1tpqXjAm701Ckbippszgemvo_1ptC1SbdXeJo1zQn2M2XCDIbHq--K_1yAYfaHGdXMNw6655FQjeJ37UD98AxDdFiK_1MSMXSbGZHWOkmXkHjHNWV4aMsDNCT8rzet93qDW1B2Xi7LtW9JHpOnwu2M9KiM4_18ne5Jq9zeoTzumnMeLDFhv9dswowZ_1VA8BVeHkJ4HTz5BQfZchkBij5JB68e3_1w6x1tMSTh-HAVCGMRxFepeTnENCOEryuw6_1Hz3Uz5XSamgc2FnFHseElpYURr8G9jMKM6Gb8kV9YMLQ56xqiygxdYgbKhP1ewFRt5-PnLoQ&hl=en-GB



I wonder if there is a name for this stock photo practice, where they get any stock photo they can find and just slap it on the page with hardly any effort where it has a larger presence than contents.

[Someone]

Here's a prime example of the crappy state of modern websites:
 * Immediate pop up that stops you reading the content, which you are forced to close - CHECK
 * Cookie confirmation dialog - CHECK
 * Pointless chat dialog with useless bot - CHECK
 * Massive images that pad out the content and add nothing to the content - CHECK
 * Massive, annoying header that resizes as you scroll and restricts your view of content - CHECK

But they didnt break the content across 13 "pages" each with a short paragraph on it? - ENGAGEMENT FAIL

[MrMobodies]

Here's something very stupid. Just looking a thread here about Windows 10 requiring the user to create and account and sign and looked at some articles.
Nothing new but it was for Home.

https://appuals.com/windows-11-os-installation-refuses-to-allow-local-accounts-and-halts-if-internet-connection-is-absent/
I accidently touched a key and this dimming overlay appeared with a large stupid looking search box stuck at the top in the center.

Attempting to hide it and the background is blurred.

appuals.com###tie-popup-search-desktop
appuals.com##.tie-popup.tie-popup-search-wrap

If it wasn't for the dimming overlay the search wouldn't bother me it is just being entirely cut off from what I am trying to read.
Like the dimming overlays is more important than anything else.

I think I have seen something similar to this before where I could hide the dimming overlay but of course it seems when I see it once and then later on it turns into a trend.

Stupid stupid stupid whoever thought that was an excellent idea to cover up the contents with a dimming overlay and something similar behind it by blurring the text.

seattletimes.com


Another ONE:

So this blurring rubbish is a recent trend.

seattletimes.com##.NewsletterSignupSplash.newsletter-social.global-overlay.overlay.is-active

Very poorly and stupidly implemented.

Kept on appearing when certain key are pressed during typing on the feedback form but after hiding it the scrollbars kept on disappearing.

One thing I can't stand is being CUT OFF from the contents and have my contrast/brightness levels/effect of the page played with. That search things keeps on appearing.

See imgur pictures of issue:

Dimming overlays:
seattletimes.com##.global-modal.global-search.active
That was accidentally when I pressed a few keys on this form.
Poorly implemented, oversized and very stupid who thought that was an excellent idea.

Then there is another one that blurs the text behind the contents.

What good does that do?
It cuts me off which I find rude.
Hurts my eyes when the entire page/screen flips from light to dark back to light.

Oh my scrollbars have now gone again I believe triggered with the search as I hid the dimming overlay. No I don't want the contents interfered with in this way, isn't not nice just cutting me off and obscuring the contents. The search box (keeps on appearing),  popups,  don't bother me, it is what you put behind everything else. Absolutely spammy behaviour.

Why can't you leave the contents alone?

Looks like web design has gone to the next level of stupidity with this new trend.

[madires]

Several websites do that also when bothering users with the cookie terror overlay box, like saying "we won't let you see a single pixel until you agree to all of our cookies".

[MrMobodies]

When I was doing a reverse image lookup I was furious to find this new UI crap that I remembered hiding last year flashing all over the page on every page load:


These things continue to flash when paused but check out the cpu time they take.
They have changed the animated skeleton placeholder names but the preloading overlay element  (that appears at first on every page load) hasn't changed.

Adblock elements:

linkedin.com##.pv-shared-shimmer-loader.pv-shared-shimmer-loader--fill-area
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__profile-card-title.pvs-loader__wrapper
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__profile-card-subtitle.pvs-loader__wrapper
linkedin.com##.pv-top-card-profile-picture__skeleton.pv-shared-shimmer-loader
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__profile-card-title
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__wrapper
linkedin.com##.pv-shared-shimmer-loader
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__profile-card-subtitle

Previous Adblock elements:

Code: [Select]

linkedin.com##.org-highlight-videos-module__video-thumbnail-icon
linkedin.com##.search-box__overlay--hidden.global-alert-offset-top.visible
linkedin.com##.basic-typeahead__triggered-content.search-global.typeahead__content
linkedin.com##.search-global-typeahead__hit
linkedin.com##.basic-typeahead__selectable
linkedin.com##.typeahead-suggestion.search-global-typeahead__suggestion
linkedin.com##.typeahead-suggestion
linkedin.com##.search-global-typeahead__suggestion
linkedin.com##.basic-typeahead__triggered-content.search-global-typeahead__content.search-global-typeahead--content-ease-in
linkedin.com##.search-typeahead-v2__section-header.search-typeahead-v2__section-header--top-divider.pt3.pb2.t-14.t-black.ph4
linkedin.com##.search-history-container.relative
linkedin.com##.search-typeahead-v2__clear-history-item.typeahead-suggestion
linkedin.com##.typeahead-suggestion
Linkedin###ember54
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__result-content
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block.search-results-loader__block--is-entity-title
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block.search-results-loader__block--small
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block.search-results-loader__block--medium
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block.search-results-loader__block--large
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block--small
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block--medium
Linkedin.com##.search-results-loader__block--large
linkedin.com###ember174
linkedin.com###ember54
linkedin.com##.artdeco-modal-overlay.artdeco-modal-overlay--layer-default.artdeco-modal-overlay--is-top-layer.ember-view
linkedin.com##.org-highlight-videos-module__video-thumbnail-icon
linkedin##.artdeco-modal-overlay.artdeco-modal-overlay--layer-default.artdeco-modal-overlay--is-top-layer.side-panel__overlay.global-alert-offset.ember-view
linkedin##.artdeco-modal-overlay
linkedin##.artdeco-modal-overlay--layer-default
linkedin##.artdeco-modal-overlay--is-top-layer
linkedin##.side-panel__overlay
linkedin.com##.search-box__overlay--hidden.global-alert-offset-top.visible
linkedin.com##.search-box__overlay--hidden.global-alert-offset-top
linkedin.com##.search-box__overlay--hidden
linkedin.com##.pv-deferred-area__loader.pv-deferred-area__loader--dark.artdeco-loader.ember-view
linkedin.com##.artdeco-loader__bars
##.loading-bg
linkedin.com##.pv-deferred-area__loader.pv-deferred-area__loader--dark.artdeco-loader.ember-view
linkedin.com##.artdeco-loader__bars
linkedin.com##.pv-deferred-area.pv-deferred-area--pending.ember-view
linkedin.com##.pv-deferred-area
linkedin.com##.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder.job-card-container__ghost-footer.ml3
linkedin.com##.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder--small.mr3
linkedin.com##.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder--medium.mr3
linkedin.com##.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder.job-card-container__ghost-placeholder--large.mr3
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--small.jobs-ghost-placeholder--small.mb3
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--medium.jobs-ghost-placeholder--medium.mb3
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--large.jobs-ghost-placeholder--large.mb3
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--x-small.jobs-ghost-placeholder--thin
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--x-small.jobs-ghost-placeholder--thick
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--x-medium.jobs-ghost-placeholder--thin
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--x-medium.jobs-ghost-placeholder--thick
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--x-large.jobs-ghost-placeholder--thin
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder.jobs-ghost-placeholder--x-large.jobs-ghost-placeholder--thick
linkedin.com##.jobs-ghost-placeholder
linkedin.com##.search-is-loading
linkedin.com###triggered-expanded-ember19
linkedin.com##.search-global-typeahead__hit.ember-view
##.jobs-search-box__typeahead-results-list
linkedin.com##.jobs-search-box__input--keyword.jobs-search-box__input--focused
linkedin.com##.jobs-search-box__typeahead-suggestion
linkedin.com##.shim
linkedin.com###rect.white
linkedin.com###line.width110.white
linkedin.com###line.width220.white
linkedin.com###height20
linkedin.com###line-wrapper
linkedin.com###app-boot-bg-loader
linkedin.com###app-boot-bg-skeleton
linkedin.com###loading-bg
linkedin.com##.route-loader-container
linkedin.com##.artdeco-loader.ember-view.route-loader-container__route-loader
linkedin.com##.index-body__recommendation-carousel-title.index-body__recommendation-carousel-title--loader
linkedin.com##.index-body__recommendation-carousel-title--loader
linkedin.com##.lls-card-loader-explore-card
linkedin.com##.initial-loading__animation
linkedin.com##.initial-loading
linkedin.com##.initial-loading__linkedin-image
linkedin.com##.initial-loading__blue-bar
linkedin.com##.initial-loading__bar
###app-boot-bg-loader
##.app-boot-bg-skeleton
linkedin.com###loader-wrapper
linkedin.com##.artdeco-spinner-bars



Seems to load instant as usual without these things.

Memory: 861+122+98+78 1159MB
CPU time 48+25+6+1 80%
Animated crap gone
Memory: 80+2+99 +(12+49+18+10) 270mb
CPU time 48+25+6+1 2%

What do these things do for the user?
Absolutely nothing, they can cause annoyance with the excessive flashing animation on every page load wasting cpu time/memory slow it down even more, waste battery power if browsing Linkedin.
Very stupid.

See last attached image
Now with the elements hidden I gave it a fair chance, closed it all the down and most of the other stuff, opened it up go onto Linkedin very fast and instant, and look at the memory and cpu time whereas before was that using around 1 gigabyte even before the page had even loaded or everything it cached.

That is Chrome 74 with an external profile I use for testing like this as with the later Chrome's I can't seem to press F8 on the page which makes it difficult for attimes to pause and capture the animation in time before they disappear.

I am so pleased I don't depend on Linkedin as a platform for looking for work.
I just use it to look up information on people when it requires me to "sign in" which is also on a different profile shortcut with a nice little linkedin ICO icon, that is set to auto login and isolated from everything else.

[RJSV]

I'd, often, put myself more in the 'Artist' category, even as a machine language programmer Z-80, 6502 Vintage stuff.
The reason I say this, is that THOSE various complex screen mechanisations often distract to the point where I have to STOP; deal with whatever silly crap being thrown at me, wholesale. Whether that's ADs or simply some arcane compiler complexity.
And other posts here are right, that the usual customer feedback process lacks any...,well, any real feedback. (So I've walked, to another compiler, etc.
Can't do that, in a MONOPOLY tolerant environment.
I'd learn the host system stuff, some, but I've got work to do already, on the microprocessor aspects that my employment favors. Let the other specialists do the operating system and utilities maintainance, while I improve my coding skills!

[HobGoblyn]

Back in 2018, a site I regularly used on my PC, updated their web page and asked for customer feedback.

I said the following.

I   much much much preferred the old site.  This looks too tablet like.

I have your app on my Ipad and don't like using it as I find it much harder to browse courses etc.

Old site was a perfect way of seeing what courses you have, what courses are upcoming ets, all from a really easy to use web page.

Now I have to stare at a screen that looks like something out of the game breakout to find which company I want to find tutorials on.

I really really wish companies would stop jumping on the same bandwagon or seeking the same advice from so called experienced web designers that think they know what everyone wants.

I would imagine most people learning their music software would do it like me, while they are using their music software.

Most musicians using their PCs for Audio, will not have the MS store or any of its apps in use, we don't need them, we don't want them, this looks more like an app (a bad app) than a website.

Why change what was really good to something that's far more clunky to use quickly and much harder on the eyes.

I daresay someone will say that no one likes change.

I don't mind change when it's for the better, I do not like change for changes sake, and more often than not, such changes hinders the majority of peoples workflow rather than enhance it.

Did the people that sat round a table and decided on this direction, even have a music PC/Mac, or did someone just say "mobile is the way to go...." because even on my ipad, I always choose the desktop version for anything as it's far easier to navigate.

The short version. The old site was easy on the eye and very quick to find what I want. The new version isn't.

I received the following response from their CEO

That’s funny … I designed this site myself but it’s somewhat amusing to me that you think there’s a bunch of people sitting around a table deciding things. I make what I want to make.

Sorry you don’t like it. I’m actually surprised. Out of the 100s of responses I’ve received, you’re the only person that doesn’t like it so far. Guess you can’t please everyone ...

[MrMobodies]

I was looking at some hotels on TripAdvisor and was shocked to find this appear:
https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g186239-d664265-Reviews-The_Harbour_Hotel-Newquay_Cornwall_England.html#/media/664265/382196972:p/?albumid=101&type=0&category=101




Now isn't that stupid?
Three gradients overlapping each over and one ontop obscuring parts of the picture they cover up.

Someone might think that is a genuine shadow at the bottom from the scene but it's just the gradients making it look like that.

I blocked a load of elements last year from Tripadvisor but it seems have gotten worse:

Gradients EVERYWHERE as well as gradients over gradients over gradient.
More animated skeleton placeholders.
More dimming overlays popups

Code: [Select]

tripadvisor.com##.z.b.j.u._U.l.s.caHPn
tripadvisor.com##.WUwNg.t.s._U.l.Y
tripadvisor.com##.kyWon.W
tripadvisor.com##.fIGDG.s._U
tripadvisor.com##.etSVL.Wh.G-.s.w.z
tripadvisor.com##.eIxtr.Cf
tripadvisor.com##.dHuzE.Cf.s.V
tripadvisor.com##.dgYjG._U._S.is-shown-at-tablet
tripadvisor.com##.cxnyp.C4.c._P.j.u.e.f._Z.w.gqDVW
tripadvisor.com##.CHtHf.o.TmMxb
tripadvisor.com##.cblIm
tripadvisor.com##.cBDvb.w._Z.t._U.s.l.D.Za
tripadvisor.com##.caHPn.s.l._U.u.j.b.z
tripadvisor.com##.c.etSVL.Wh.G-.s.w.z
tripadvisor.com##.bmVGg.S7.n.q.Vm
tripadvisor.com##.bgDVk._S.is-shown-at-tablet
tripadvisor.co.uk##.z.b.j.u._U.l.s.caHPn
tripadvisor.co.uk##.WUwNg.t.s._U.l.Y
tripadvisor.co.uk##.kyWon.W
tripadvisor.co.uk##.fIGDG.s._U
tripadvisor.co.uk##.etSVL.Wh.G-.s.w.z
tripadvisor.co.uk##.eIxtr.Cf
tripadvisor.co.uk##.dHuzE.Cf.s.V
tripadvisor.co.uk##.dgYjG._U._S.is-shown-at-tablet
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cxnyp.C4.c._P.j.u.e.f._Z.w.gqDVW
tripadvisor.co.uk##.CHtHf.o.TmMxb
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ccaHPn.s.l._U.u.j.b.z
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cblIm
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cBDvb.w._Z.t._U.s.l.D.Za
tripadvisor.co.uk##.caHPn.s.l._U.u.j.b.z
tripadvisor.co.uk##.bmVGg.S7.n.q.Vm
tripadvisor.co.uk##.bgDVk._S.is-shown-at-tablet
##.CHtHf.o.TmMxb

Previous elements from early 2021 featuring lots of fake loading spinners/preloading UI crap.

Code: [Select]

tripadvisor.com##._1-hqTAYH
tripadvisor.com##._1rSmv-ju._1eEWYAJZ
tripadvisor.com##._1Hzf3Xci
tripadvisor.com##._3PeMrYNR._1T4t-FiN
tripadvisor.com##._3mLX8jwB._2a_Ua4Qv
tripadvisor.com##._27pk-lCQ
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1-hqTAYH
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1rSmv-ju._1eEWYAJZ
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1Hzf3Xci
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3PeMrYNR._1T4t-FiN
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3mLX8jwB._2a_Ua4Qv
tripadvisor.co.uk##._27pk-lCQ
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1V8JElSa
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1Wz9hJOX
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_column.skeleton-detail-column
tripadvisor.co.uk##.skeleton-element.skeleton-row
tripadvisor.co.uk##.skeleton-container
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_skeleton.thumbnail-detail.ui_columns.is-mobile
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_column.is-4.skeleton-thumbnail-column
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_columns.is-mobile.loading-skeletons.generic
tripadvisor.co.uk##.skeleton-element.skeleton-thumbnail
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_skeleton.thumbnail-detail
tripadvisor.co.uk##.skeleton-thumbnail
tripadvisor.co.uk##.thumbnail-detail
tripadvisor.co.uk##.skeleton-element
tripadvisor.co.uk##.loading-skeletons
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_columns.is-mobile.loading-skeletons.profile.hidden
tripadvisor.co.uk##.skeleton-container.ui_columns.is-gapless
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_skeleton.profile-detail.ui_column
tripadvisor.co.uk##.profile_loading_container.ui_skeleton
tripadvisor.co.uk##.see_all_count_wrap
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner
tripadvisor.co.uk##.spinnerImage
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_skeleton.profile-detail.ui_column.is-4-desktop.is-4-tablet.is-mobile
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ui_skeleton
tripadvisor.co.uk##.what_results_wrapper.ui_column
tripadvisor.co.uk##.inbox-lander-thread-list-item-skeleton-bar
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step1
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step2
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step3
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step4
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step5
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step6
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step7
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step8
tripadvisor.co.uk##.cssLoadingSpinner_step9
tripadvisor.co.uk##.thumbnail-overlay
tripadvisor.co.uk##.thumbnail-overlay-tag
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3m6lohmL._1FNDxSoQ
tripadvisor.co.uk##.zmSjOGih
tripadvisor.co.uk##.nqu_DTdQ._2oyEnQ3Y
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3qAHn7-r
tripadvisor.co.uk##._2_i1nh4Z
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1NLthPq0
tripadvisor.co.uk##._2MqZYXQo
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3675eQQ_
tripadvisor.co.uk##.ePL5cQFU
tripadvisor.co.uk##._1PZkiPmV
tripadvisor.co.uk##._20k-Wwrc
tripadvisor.co.uk##._2fgOZeQN
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tripadvisor.co.uk##.nqu_DTdQ.A_7_yDE7
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3y4w8kK3
tripadvisor.co.uk##.DrjyGw-P._1SRa-qNz._2oE7snij
tripadvisor.co.uk##.qu_DTdQ.A_7_yDE7
tripadvisor.co.uk##._27pk-lCQ
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3m6lohmL._1FNDxSoQ
tripadvisor.co.uk##._4mF60zVg
tripadvisor.co.uk##._2878pYod
tripadvisor.co.uk##._2tiSupry
tripadvisor.co.uk##._3sXsAqz5
tripadvisor.com##._1V8JElSa
tripadvisor.com##._1Wz9hJOX
tripadvisor.com##.ui_column.skeleton-detail-column
tripadvisor.com##.skeleton-element.skeleton-row
tripadvisor.com##.skeleton-container
tripadvisor.com##.ui_skeleton.thumbnail-detail.ui_columns.is-mobile
tripadvisor.com##.ui_column.is-4.skeleton-thumbnail-column
tripadvisor.com##.ui_columns.is-mobile.loading-skeletons.generic
tripadvisor.com##.skeleton-element.skeleton-thumbnail
tripadvisor.com##.ui_skeleton.thumbnail-detail
tripadvisor.com##.skeleton-thumbnail
tripadvisor.com##.thumbnail-detail
tripadvisor.com##.skeleton-element
tripadvisor.com##.loading-skeletons
tripadvisor.com##.ui_columns.is-mobile.loading-skeletons.profile.hidden
tripadvisor.com##.skeleton-container.ui_columns.is-gapless
tripadvisor.com##.ui_skeleton.profile-detail.ui_column
tripadvisor.com##.profile_loading_container.ui_skeleton
tripadvisor.com##.see_all_count_wrap
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner
tripadvisor.com##.spinnerImage
tripadvisor.com##.ui_skeleton.profile-detail.ui_column.is-4-desktop.is-4-tablet.is-mobile
tripadvisor.com##.ui_skeleton
tripadvisor.com##.what_results_wrapper.ui_column
tripadvisor.com##.inbox-lander-thread-list-item-skeleton-bar
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step1
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step2
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step3
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step4
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step5
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step6
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step7
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step8
tripadvisor.com##.cssLoadingSpinner_step9
||static.tacdn.com/img2/generic/site/ajax-loader.gif
tripadvisor.com##.thumbnail-overlay
tripadvisor.com##.thumbnail-overlay-tag
tripadvisor.com##._3m6lohmL._1FNDxSoQ
tripadvisor.com##.zmSjOGih
tripadvisor.com##.nqu_DTdQ._2oyEnQ3Y
tripadvisor.com##._3qAHn7-r
tripadvisor.com##._2_i1nh4Z
tripadvisor.com##._1NLthPq0
tripadvisor.com##._2MqZYXQo
tripadvisor.com##._3675eQQ_
tripadvisor.com##.ePL5cQFU
tripadvisor.com##._1PZkiPmV
tripadvisor.com##._20k-Wwrc
tripadvisor.com##._2fgOZeQN
tripadvisor.com##._3dWxYFuS
tripadvisor.com##.nqu_DTdQ.A_7_yDE7
tripadvisor.com##._3y4w8kK3
tripadvisor.com##.DrjyGw-P._1SRa-qNz._2oE7snij
tripadvisor.com##.qu_DTdQ.A_7_yDE7
tripadvisor.com##._27pk-lCQ
tripadvisor.com##._3m6lohmL._1FNDxSoQ
tripadvisor.com##._4mF60zVg
tripadvisor.com##._2878pYod
tripadvisor.com##._2tiSupry
tripadvisor.com##._3sXsAqz5

Checkout the other attachments featuring other crap I had to hide.

Unfortunately I am now missing names of places and dates that were the child element of the gradients but I don't mind that, I prefer it like that where I can see what I am looking at much more clearly and properly like before.

[bd139]

That's all heavily randomised to stop ad blockers from blocking known element IDs.

[MrMobodies]

I see, so they care more about me seeing those gradients and other visual annoying stuff than anything else that'd they go to great lengths.

That sounds a bit strange to me that they are obsessed with showing these things insisting I must see them and now I have equally developed an obsession in hiding them due to the distraction and annoyance they cause me.

I wonder since when did intrusive gradients, animated placeholder skeletons, fake loading spinners and dimming overlays make them money?

I know the spammy toolbars/fixed headers were in belief that because it is stuck there constantly it is *going* to be quicker for guests to reach it and click things on there to look at other parts of the site *assuming* they would do that but not all us may do that. For instance, I find a link on the search engine, click it, see the article I want or not and most like close it down after and if I am interested in the site or anything there then I might use stuff but not if it is going to be intrusive as I am there just for the contents.

[bd139]

It’s part of the whole web design cargo cult. To note the CSS is probably “minified” here as well to save them bandwidth.

Really modern web stacks are garbage. I’m currently tearing one a new asshole. It has three generations of fads in one product all badly integrated. In fact it caused an outage because the SASS pregeneration banged out a pile of CPUs which causes a cluster wide collapse. CSS ffs. 

[SilverSolder]

Just for fun, I made a small site using basic HTML and images.   It is AMAZING how fast a web browser can be nowadays, when fed some high vitamin food!

[MrMobodies]

I was looking for something on Seed.com Some wireless kit but doesn't seem to be there anymore any it seem slow and sluggish but noticed the skeleton placeholder crap below before the page finished loading:

Code: [Select]

seeedstudio.com###top-search-shadow-control
seeedstudio.com##.r-s-word
seeedstudio.com##.autocomplete-wrapper
seeedstudio.com##.recommend_search-section.active
seeedstudio.com##.al_recommend_right
seeedstudio.com##.al_recommend_left
seeedstudio.com##.fa.fa-search
seeedstudio.com##.autocomplete-wrapper
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-line.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-line.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-img.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-cart.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-cart
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-line
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-img
seeedstudio.com##.preload-cart.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-cart
seeedstudio.com##.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-search.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-search
seeedstudio.com##.preload-logo.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-category.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-category
seeedstudio.com##.preload-header
seeedstudio.com###product-detail-preload-view
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-container
seeedstudio.com##.preload-bread
seeedstudio.com##.preload-bread-item.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-bread-item
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-gallery
seeedstudio.com##.large-gallery.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.small-gallery.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-info-button.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-info-button
seeedstudio.com##.preload-template-wrap
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-info-count.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-info-count
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-titile.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-titile
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-img
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail-line.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-info-price.preload-mark
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-info-price
seeedstudio.com##.small-gallery
seeedstudio.com##.large-gallery
seeedstudio.com##.small-gallery-box
seeedstudio.com##.large-gallery-box
seeedstudio.com##.preload-product-detail
seeedstudio.com###top-search-shadow-control
seeedstudio.com###autocomplete_extra_template
seeedstudio.com###autocomplete_categories_template
seeedstudio.com###autocomplete_suggestions_template
seeedstudio.com###autocomplete_suggestions_template__back
seeedstudio.com###autocomplete_products_template
seeedstudio.com###autocomplete_products_template_____back
Seems to loads up instantly without the couple of seconds wasted on this crap that they seem to have gone to a lot of effort on implementing it.

Not as bad as the animated ones but still I find it very stupid, wasteful on how it delays it a bit and the irritation of seeing it flash on and off after every page load.

Can't get rid of dimming overlay. If I manually remove element: top-search-shadow-control the dimming overlay stops. If I add it to Adblock/ublock doesn't hide it. Now back in developer tools if I select the text input after removing the element it is reinserted.

I have narrowed it down to this script:

https://static-cdn.seeedstudio.com/static/version1654074374/frontend/bs_complex/bs_complex5/en_US/Algolia_AlgoliaSearch/internals/Algolia_AlgoliaSearch_Customer.min.css

Reinserts

<input type="checkbox" id="top-search-shadow-control" style="display: none">

when selecting search input.




I believe this element top-search-shadow-control which has 18 matches to be the culprit in that script.

#top-search-shadow-control+body.header-content

If I prevent the script from loading it stop it but the search results appear scattered all over the page with it disabled.

Looks to me like a new form of HARASSMENT by injecting this crap but from scripts so not much the element hiders can do or am I missing something.

[MrMobodies]

I kept on coming across Glassdoor which shows a dimming overlay dialogue after a couple of seconds to create an account and sign in which reminds a bit like Pinterest.



Attempting to hide the dimming overlay doesn't restore the scrollbars.
I have to turn off javascript but then I can't sort by ratings.

So I am going to add that to my search exclusions and blocklist incase I click another link to it.

At least Linkedin allows a certain amount of views per day before the authwall appears.

I found a solution.
As it is timed I thought it maybe a script:

Looking at the name of the overlay element:

glassdoor.co.uk##.hardsellOverlay

Just added this one to the blocklist:

||glassdoor.com/garnish/static/js/gd-user-hardsell-overlay.bundle.js

Now it works fine.

I still feel a bit put off and I debating whether just to block it and exclude from search results as it will be a matter of time when they do other stuff like this.

[bd139]

Usual upsell crap. 

The worst thing for this is Pinterest which is a cancer upon this planet and should burn.

[MrMobodies]

I kept on coming across dialogues that would interrupt what I am reading by covering up the background cutting me off and would disappear on trying to select the element and here's one of them:


Unfortunately hiding the element also seems to hide the dialogue too but fortunately not the scroll bars:

bbc.co.uk###test-overlay
bbc.co.uk##.ssrcss-veoawf-Overlay.e34ixc510
bbc.co.uk##.ssrcss-veoawf-Overlay

I submitted a complaint.
Very intrusive, nasty and disgusting behaviour coming from the BBC.

Another one I found for another post to do with gradients:

bbc.co.uk##.ssrcss-veoawf-Overlay

Hiding the element also hides the dialogue.

As someone who lives in England, in a household where the BBC license fee is paid for I should not have to "sign in" and see all this crap and be harassed by spammy things that I remember advertising companies doing similar things 20 years ago.

Another I saw last week that I just found.
Dialogues over dialogues:

Spamming the users with things they may not want to see whilst cutting them off. That goes to show the respect they have for the users as if their concentration of trying to read of articles don't matter and they can interfere and interrupt when they feel like it.

That reminds of empty shops where you look through the window or door and see the letters piling up from the ground.

[MrMobodies]

Like tripadvisor the BBC seems to be doing similar:

Gradient seems to goes past what looks like MORE THAN HALF and way past than than the red outline I put there the more I compare it the second and last:

bbc.co.uk##.hero-image__picture

Like them putting that there is going "improve" it.

Another gradient:

bbc.co.uk##.hero-meta

I like that and I find it looks beautiful and nice the way that picture turned out compared to the above which looks horrible and scruffy to me at the bottom. All of that potential to stand out hidden by these picture obscuring gradients applied more than half way through. I can also see the text clearly, higher resolution copy in attachments.

I wonder why they label this picture obscuring nonsense as "hero".
Doesn't it do the opposite of a "hero"ric  term/context like ruin a picture by making it unclear and give false illusions?

[bd139]

BBC are special when it comes to this. They do extensive panelised A-B testing against their design changes like you should do. This is uniquely compromised by the fact the people who run all this shit have no idea what they are doing because they’ve been there since the dark ages and their entire subordinate structure is yes men and arse licking morlocks.

Source: ex BBC contractor. Never contract for them!

[MrMobodies]

I was experimenting with Xigmanas and was getting very frustrated with the decorations where I couldn't see things clearly.

Pages FLASH after every load so I hid it.


Adblock:

###top_dialog_underlay
###editscary_dialog_underlay
###edit_dialog_underlay
###spinner_main
###spinner_overlay
###login_underlay
###header

I am using a dedicated browser profile for it so I don't have to keep on changing or adding the ip addresses to the rules.

I didn' t see the spinner element as of course as I added a lot of wildcard variants some years before that is also added onto the blocklist.

Unclear tabs with black text where one maybe readable on mouse hover where it inverts it to white.

Notice: Loader.config tab forced in hover state so I can find it and stop it flashing on hover.

So I edited some of the CSS files. I removed some of the decorations.

Now I can see what I am doing.

Also irritating me was the white highlighting of the menu on mouse hover so I stopped that too.


As the text is white and there is a gradient that is white at bottom where I struggle to see the text especially for long menus so I just made it black.

Much better in visibility.

Looks much more clearer to me.
No more flashing, menus and tabs I can't see.

Some of the crap I removed or altered:

Code: [Select]

txc-nav
txc-nav-hovered
:root {
--bgi-nav-sub-hovered
#navhdr > ul > li:hover > a, #navhdr ul ul li a:hover {
    /* color: black; */
    /* color: var(--txc-nav-sub-hovered);

:root {
    --bgc-root: #D9DCE1;
    --txc-root: #000000;
    --txc-page-title: #777777;
    --bgc-area-data: #EEEEEE;
    --bgc-box-info: #D9DEE8;
    --bgc-box-error: #FFD9D1;
    --bgc-box-warning: #F7F2B9;
    --txc-box: #000000;
    --bgc-setting-tag: #D6D6D6;
    --bgc-topic: #95A7C0;
    /* --bgi-topic: linear-gradient(#95A7C0,#97AAC2,#8197B4); */

REMOVE
    /* --txc-topic: #FFFFFF;


tabs.css
remove
:root {
    /* --bow-tnt-global: 0px; */
    /* --bos-tnt-global: solid; */
    /* --boc-tnt-global: #444444; */
    /* --bgc-tnt: darkgray; */
    /* --bgi-tnt: linear-gradient(#9C9C9C,black); */
    /* --bow-tnt: var(--bow-tnt-global); */
    /* --bos-tnt: var(--bos-tnt-global); */
    /* --boc-tnt: var(--boc-tnt-global); */
    /* --bop-tnt: var(--bow-tnt) var(--bos-tnt) var(--boc-tnt); */
    /* --txc-tnt: grey; */
    /* --bgc-tnt-active: lightgray; */
    /* --bgi-tnt-active: linear-gradient(#9C9C9C,black); */
    /* --bow-tnt-active: var(--bow-tnt-global); */
    /* --bos-tnt-active: var(--bos-tnt-global); */
    /* --boc-tnt-active: var(--boc-tnt-global); */
    /* --bop-tnt-active: var(--bow-tnt-active) var(--bos-tnt-active) var(--boc-tnt-active); */
    /* --txc-tnt-active: white; */
    /* --bgc-tnt-hovered: black; */
    /* --bgi-tnt-hovered: linear-gradient(white 34%,#CCCCCC 78%,#E1E1E1); */
    /* --bow-tnt-hovered: var(--bow-tnt-global); */
    /* --bos-tnt-hovered: var(--bos-tnt-global); */
    /* --boc-tnt-hovered: var(--boc-tnt-global); */
    /* --bop-tnt-hovered: var(--bow-tnt-hovered) var(--bos-tnt-hovered) var(--boc-tnt-hovered); */
    /* --txc-tnt-hovered: black; */
    /* --bgc-tnt-active-hovered: black; */
    /* --bgi-tnt-active-hovered: linear-gradient(white 34%,#CCCCCC 78%,#E1E1E1); */
    /* --bow-tnt-active-hovered: var(--bow-tnt-global); */
    /* --bos-tnt-active-hovered: var(--bos-tnt-global); */
    /* --boc-tnt-active-hovered: var(--boc-tnt-global); */
    /* --bop-tnt-active-hovered: var(--bow-tnt-active-hovered) var(--bos-tnt-active-hovered) var(--boc-tnt-active-hovered); */
    /* --txc-tnt-active-hovered: gray;

Attached CSS files for anyone interested.

In "File editor" here are the direct paths to copy and paste for those also annoyed and inconvenienced:

/usr/local/www/css/navbar.css
/usr/local/www/css/tabs.css
/usr/local/www/css/gui.css

I don't mind the gradients and other stuff as long as I can see everything.
I should NOT have to mouse hover over the tabs for it to flash and invert it in order to see the text.

In the latest version 12.3 they made the menu text flash white on mouse hover:


Very annoying and stupid so I thought I'd get to work and find some solutions for the rest of the visual annoyances.

Apart from that the platform seems to work alright.

[MrMobodies]

What a great way to treat a visitor, by loading the page in full, seconds later remove the scrollbars, dim most of the page and then harass them into signing up.

Look on the clickbait signing banner that hides the scrollbars and they seem care more about their fixed header than the contents.




Cuplrit:
cdn.tinypass.com/api/tinypass.min.js
||tinypass.min.js

The usual UI garbage preloading skeleton crap:


They might as well put a boxes around then than put those there to flash on just to flash off again.

Tinypass.js
##.appLoadingb
###app-loader
seekingalpha.com##.imA.biC.imB.bjgE.bjGS.fvA
seekingalpha.com##.bjgG.bfA.bfM.bjGL.fvA
seekingalpha.combjgG.bfA.bfM.bjGL.fvA
seekingalpha.com###post-skeleton-row
seekingalpha.com##.ewA.glA.bfA.nrA.bjL.bjCE.nrA.bjL.bjCE.nrE.nrE
seekingalpha.com##.ewF.bfA.bfH.bfR
seekingalpha.com##.imA.biC.imB.ewC.ewD.bjGD
seekingalpha.com##.imA.biC.imB.ewE

I will be less willing to create an account or click another one of their links.

[Terry Bites]

Animation, mouse on, embedded epileptiform movie, etc utter bollocks and helps no one. It makes me laugh or is it gag, that in our realm its b2b. Are they trying to lure in buyers or engineers. I'll go with AD because thieir site is glossier than TI, as if. Are they deluded?

Then there are the great sites that tell you nothing about the product.  No info no buy. Sorry mate I'm moving on to the vendor who tells me something useful.
So many corporate brag sites. I've got to say I loved the FART (transformers) website.

About us, our philosophy, our mission.... piss off!  You gotta give it to sales people, they can wank in front of you with out being remotely bashful.

[MrMobodies]

I see this nonsense has made it's way to Ebay. I removed the picture placeholder element quickly to find out the element name without having to go into developer tools to try to reload and pause to capture them before they disappeared but all of which happened to remain there flashing away and hadn't loaded the content on this occasion.

Checkout the CPU time the the title and text are taking on an "Intel Core i3-6100U" and that is without a picture placeholder and a single row.

18% cpu usage excluding picture placeholders that I already hid.


0 to 1% cpu usage after hiding them.

Culprits found and hidden with Adblock:

ebay.co.uk##.loading.loading--image
ebay.co.uk##.loading.loading--title
ebay.co.uk##.loading.loading--text

Feedback:
What do you least like:
Listings: Animated skeleton placeholders that slow down page and waste cpu time and power.

What can we do better?

A new trend that is getting out of control and now here. Animated skeleton placeholders.
Does nothing useful but slows down the page load, takes a lot of CPU time up and wastes battery.

I hid them:
ebay.co.uk##.loading.loading--image
ebay.co.uk##.loading.loading--title
ebay.co.uk##.loading.loading--text

Imgur screenshots of what i mean:
18% cpu time wasted (content behind not loading)
i.imgur.com/4TyzmJ2.jpg

1% cpu time with these things hidden:
i.imgur.com/WbwLsHD.jpg

Very stupid idea get rid of them.

Removed https:// (picture already attached and displayed.

Oops I lost my screenshot for the attachments.

[JPortici]

I have first encountered a website that doesn't recognize the scroll wheel inside a widget. One has to click and drag

[madires]

Another annoying thing is when a website prevents copying text. I wonder why the browser developers support such features.

[PlainName]

Presumably that kind of thing is in a spec, and the browser makers follow it because if they don't then the website author would start blocking browsers that don't preserve that very necessary feature.

[Karel]

Fortunately there are plugins to correct that:

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/enable-copy-by-gary/

[MrMobodies]

I have noticed that myself with certain news websites and turn off javascript which most of the times work.
https://github.com/maximelebreton/quick-javascript-switcher

Presumably that kind of thing is in a spec, and the browser makers follow it because if they don't then the website author would start blocking browsers that don't preserve that very necessary feature.

Sounds like intrusion and harassment.

Why is it the bots are free to do but not the user who'd do it for something so simple like open a tab and search for a word and phrase.

I tend think that they get some kind of gratification out of it to go that far just like with taking away the scrollbars, dimming the background to deliberately interrupt what you are reading and cut you off from the contents to slap a banner in the middle.

[MrMobodies]

Just had a power cut and power came on about 10 minutes later so I went to have a look to see if there are other powercuts nearby and shocked with what I found. The search box worked last time now it has gone into spammy behaviour where they, create an extra step, cutting me off from the contents with a stupid dimming overlay and present this stupid looking white box in the middle where it is already on the page.

UKPOWERNETWORKS.co.uk




I find I can't hide the dimming overlay without killing the dialogue but on doing so, the text box that previously worked  (that triggered it) don't work where can't be typed into.


Now if I disable javascript then I can type into it but of course does nothing after that apart from the animation on the button:


Now isn't that obnoxious and overzealous, artificially stopping me using the website search input to force me to use the one on the dimming overlay.

.PopUp_popUp__0XOFm
.AddressLookUp_addressPopUpModal__w_fP

No I don't want to see a stupid dimmng overlay that cuts me off from everything else and hurts my eyes as it flips from light to dark.
Like the dimming overlay is more important than anything else.

The box is right here and it was simple before.
From:
Click -> insert -> postcode
To:
Click ->  dimming overlay click -> insert postcode.

At least why can't they leave the background alone?
This is what I think of as oversimplified and dumbed down and no consideration for people with light sensitivity.

I made a complaint and also on the feedback form the postcode finder wouldn't work, of course it uses the same one with the dimming overlay that I hid so clicked option to entered manually.

I guess that option might disappear one day from the same person who decided to put that stupid thing there.

It looks to me whoever put that there, think that their users are stupid and are treating them accordingly with this design, that they have to shroud their view of the page and cut them off from everything else and make it dark all around it as if that would help them with the very complicated and difficult task of working out their postcode.

[SilverSolder]

[...]
It looks to me whoever put that there, think that their users are stupid and are treating them accordingly with this design, that they have to shroud their view of the page and cut them off from everything else and make it dark all around it as if that would help them with the very complicated and difficult task of working out their postcode.

Unfortunately, the user interface of "big" sites are determined by the most n00b users, not the most experienced ones.

I don't understand why they don't just make a "light" site for the n00bs, and keep a "moderately useful" version for the rest of us.   Some companies do that,  e.g. I've seen stock brokers that offer several different versions of their software, depending on user level of experience and interest.

[MrMobodies]

Furious to find this rubbish with only 7 animated gradients hogging 19% of cpu time time during page load.

Adblock:
amazon.co.uk##.a-section.a-spacing-none.loading-indicator-1
amazon.co.uk##.loading-indicator-1
##.a-section.a-spacing-none.loading-indicator-1
##.loading-indicator-1

The prices load perfectly fine behind it with the animated placeholders hidden.

Without them 0 to 2% from Vivaldi with page paused so that 17% when these things appear.

I can the see the prices and that's only what I care about.
Putting animations in front that interfere, can cause distraction from the animation and slow the page down is not what I want to see.
The stupidity.

[MrMobodies]

I saw something and remember this:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/badbloated-web-design/msg4438807/#msg4438807
 Re: Bad/bloated web design Ebay animated loading placeholder cpu hog stupidity
« Reply #170 on: September 28, 2022, 04:51:46 pm »

Did they change the elements? No
Just more page slowing animated placeholder crap under another element name placed over other things.




Culprits:

##.merch-loading
##.merch-loader
##.merch-skeleton

During page load and pausedwWith these animated skeleton placeholders flashing away with the gradients:
43-3%=40%
Without: 3%

Very annoying where flash on every page load slowing it down a bit.

[MrMobodies]

I was looking at some stock prices on Google and I see that the content delaying animated loader/skeleton nonsense is there too.




Taking up 32% cpu time during page loading spent on these when shown.
0% When hidden and it seems little bit quicker.

Adblock
google.com###wp-load-FinanceFinancials
google.com##.Uo8X3b.OhScic.zsYMMe
google.com##.rskU3c
###wp-load-FinanceFinancials
##.Uo8X3b.OhScic.zsYMMe

It seems to me that these things are taking over and will be everywhere soon.

[JPortici]

Wikipedia: another site that didn't need to change

https://wikimediafoundation.org/wikipedia-desktop/


Again someone decided that treating a PC the same as a phone screen is a good thing

[MrMobodies]

To me the size and appearance of that time line thing at the bottom looks terrible even on a phone.

I noticed it has a spammy fixed header.

If that gets onto Wikipedia with no way to hide it I let them know they can forget about future donations from me.

Survey:
https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_eKv2YsD5GQXnJt4

Just noticed something horrid, a spammy fixed nav toolbar on Wikimedia but not on Wikipedia yet.

I come to Wikipedia to view content not have unwanted things I can't close like fixed headers or fixed elements rammed in my face constantly as I scroll, that get in the way, restrict content and serve as a distraction that I find down right irritating and annoying with absolutely no regards for user preference where I am at the liberty of browser extensions to auto hide them on scroll.

I don't really care about everything else as long as I can scroll content without intrusion and distraction as I don't want things stuck there over my browser/viewing area that maybe totally unwanted and uncalled for. It is my browsing area keep your hands off it. I shouldn't have to manually hide them or be at liberty of browser extensions. Most of the time I find what I want and after that I close the page with no need for things like that stuck there

Hypothetically, imagine going into a shop on the high street and every time you go into a certain store you see things placed in a fixed part of your vision, such as The store's logo, a toolbar and offers stuck there and an assistant so no matter where you look you can't get rid of it until you leave.

Now how would you feel if you didn't want them there? Would that put you off?

On Archive.org they have one but at least I can close it when I find it is getting in the way.

I happen to sometimes donate at Wikipedia ...
If I find one above that I can't close then you can forget about future donations.

On the other hand on Wikipedia at the moment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page




Fine, it gives me a choice to hide the side items to increase viewing area.
The same should apply to the fixed nav toolbars/widgets.

[Nominal Animal]

WikiFolks: Our Wikipedia page is ugly.
Users: Well, it works absolutely fine, and we're used to it.
WikiFolks: No, we need to update it, because it doesn't have the spazz we're looking for.

WikiFolks: Hey, let's add lots more whitespace, making it look so much nicer!

WikiFolks: Here you go, the new 2023 layout, with lots more whitespace!
Users: Noooo.. it's harder to read now!
WikiFolks: Read? It's 2023 now, nobody reads anymore; they just look at the page, and see all this nice whitespace, instead of some stuffy wall of text with lots of letters and words and stuff!  This is prettier, you long-haired smellies!
Users: Okay, daddy.

[MrMobodies]

One thing I don't like with this new Wikipedia design is when I open the side menu items it shifts the contents right.
It would have been nice if they made it so it didn't do that.

Granted they don't have a fixed header and as long as it stays like that I'll happily donate sometimes.

Things that irritate me the most:
1: Fixed/nav toolbar/headers and widgets.
Trying to scroll away from them as with the rest of the page but they are still there and in the way.
2: Dimming overlays (including the ones behind dialogues, menus and search)
that hurt my eyes and obscures the contents
3: Gradients over pictures (especially ones that go way past what they are covering up)
that can give false illusions of shadows and clouds.
4: Animated Skeleton placeholder (cycling of gradients)
that slow down the page load, wastes cpu time power/battery.
5: Large and excessive use of fake loading animations, spinners and covering up/delayng content with overlays
that can cause annoyance due to the repetition.
6: Excessive flash/fade/transition animations
which makes it uncomfortable for my eyes.

[SilverSolder]

One thing I don't like with this new Wikipedia design is when I open the side menu items it shifts the contents right.
It would have been nice if they made it so it didn't do that.

Granted they don't have a fixed header and as long as it stays like that I'll happily donate sometimes.

Things that irritate me the most:
1: Fixed/nav toolbar/headers and widgets.
Trying to scroll away from them as with the rest of the page but they are still there and in the way.
2: Dimming overlays (including the ones behind dialogues, menus and search)
that hurt my eyes and obscures the contents
3: Gradients over pictures (especially ones that go way past what they are covering up)
that can give false illusions of shadows and clouds.
4: Animated Skeleton placeholder (cycling of gradients)
that slow down the page load, wastes cpu time power/battery.
5: Large and excessive use of fake loading animations, spinners and covering up/delayng content with overlays
that can cause annoyance due to the repetition.
6: Excessive flash/fade/transition animations
which makes it uncomfortable for my eyes.

Basically all the stuff that "professional" web designers do, in order to make their work look like it took effort to make, and therefore was worth the fees!

[MrMobodies]

Many years ago in mid 2015 when these things were just about to become widespread I only just started using Adblock for the first time to try hide the Google suggest lines when Google search removed the option to disable suggest. Then later that year I noticed the fixed nav toolbars (unbeknown what they were called at the time) starting to appear on Ebay like the Ebay basket purchase and basket bar then Amazon copied. I eventually found I could just add their elements adblock and that took care of it but before that I use to go absolutely mad and genuinely loose my temper going into developer tools to try and either either delete the element or set the fixed positioning to absolute. I felt I had no control over my viewing area with them dictating what I don't want to see constantly and large in the way.

Now thinking about it it reminds me of this video decades ago:
https://youtu.be/XNjigdElz4U?t=189
MADtv Bunifa Trading Spaces
3:09 in the video.
That is a bit how I felt at the time.

I could understand if the make over in the video was terrible which it wasn't.

[PlainName]

I felt I had no control over my viewing area with them dictating what I don't want to see constantly and large in the way

I feel the same way (used to be about sites assuming the browser was the full width of a monitor - thankfully the web monkeys getting 4K screens stopped that). But... they could argue that you are destroying their carefully built presentation. Would you insist that a film director is forcing you to see what you don't want when he shows the full blood'n'guts cut? On the one hand you are paying to be provided with what you want, but on the other he is selling a specific film. Websites aren't providing you with a customised paid service, they are handing out something the provider is willing to share. Really, your choice is to accept it or not.

The snag with that view (for us) is that most people accept it, even if they hate it, so there is no 'constructive' feedback of what people would actually like.

[madires]

Yep, it's the lost art of considering user experience, i.e. designing web pages pleasing to the human eye and easy to navigate or use. Instead we get overloaded and unintuitive pieces of web art. It's about using a web page and not admiring the artful design. I would even go so far as to claim that a lot of today's web pages are inhuman.

[SilverSolder]

I felt I had no control over my viewing area with them dictating what I don't want to see constantly and large in the way

I feel the same way (used to be about sites assuming the browser was the full width of a monitor - thankfully the web monkeys getting 4K screens stopped that). But... they could argue that you are destroying their carefully built presentation. Would you insist that a film director is forcing you to see what you don't want when he shows the full blood'n'guts cut? On the one hand you are paying to be provided with what you want, but on the other he is selling a specific film. Websites aren't providing you with a customised paid service, they are handing out something the provider is willing to share. Really, your choice is to accept it or not.

The snag with that view (for us) is that most people accept it, even if they hate it, so there is no 'constructive' feedback of what people would actually like.

The "feedback" happens when enough people stop using it, or enough people use the web site feedback button (when available) to submit negative feedback.

eBay have fixed a lot of the most egregious problems over the years,  I hope all my comments to the web team had some small influence along the way! 

[PlainName]

Well, that's it - people generally just don't stop using it and put up with all sorts of stuff, so no real indication of an issue.

[JPortici]

Yep, it's the lost art of considering user experience, i.e. designing web pages pleasing to the human eye and easy to navigate or use. Instead we get overloaded and unintuitive pieces of web art. It's about using a web page and not admiring the artful design. I would even go so far as to claim that a lot of today's web pages are inhuman.

No, they are just made to be shown on a phone screen, so very long and thing. The complete opposite of books or computer screens, makes it easier to implement apps that are just webviews wrapped around a container

[PlainName]

They offer a service where they work with you to help you fix any issues with your website.

What's your relationship with them? So far as I can tell, no-one here has a website that needs fixing, so why would you - a first time poster joined today - want to recommend that?

[madires]

No, they are just made to be shown on a phone screen, so very long and thing. The complete opposite of books or computer screens, makes it easier to implement apps that are just webviews wrapped around a container

In that case I'd recommend a good book on CSS, e.g. CSS by McFarland (O'Reilly). One can use CSS to create different layouts of the same web page for different types of clients (desktop, mobile, ...). Some web pages use this approach even for a print version, i.e. just the content without menus and navigation elements. BTW, some smartphone users figured out that they can rotate their phone.

[JPortici]

No, they are just made to be shown on a phone screen, so very long and thing. The complete opposite of books or computer screens, makes it easier to implement apps that are just webviews wrapped around a container

In that case I'd recommend a good book on CSS, e.g. CSS by McFarland (O'Reilly). One can use CSS to create different layouts of the same web page for different types of clients (desktop, mobile, ...). Some web pages use this approach even for a print version, i.e. just the content without menus and navigation elements. BTW, some smartphone users figured out that they can rotate their phone.

then you have a very wide, very short screen, and with all of the clutter of the user interface you can't read more than a handful of lines before having to scroll
Also, did you know that vertical vide is actually a thing? and movies are being made that target smartphones? (filmed in "vertical video" format)

>CSS
but moooooooom debugging CSS is haaaaard

[SilverSolder]

A smartphone is for emergency use only...  everyone needs a better way to surf the Net, even if it's just a tablet?

[MrMobodies]

They can't just LEAVE things alone that were fine before and on this occasion they seem to have got it wrong whether they just copied or linked it to the wrong feedback form for the sellers profile:

"Tell us what you think about seller Feedback on this page"

This is the WRONG feedback form.
This is a product listing.

My complaint is the dimming overlay behind this form. Before it would open another tab or a pane on the right hand side. It hurts my eyes and this is become more and more excessive.

No! I don't want the contents obscured. I find that very annoying, insulting and very stupid idea.

I find I couldn't add to basket anymore not even with right click. I see it now uses a dimming element that I hid many years ago: ebay.co.uk##.oly_mask which was used for delivery tracking dimming overlay on purchase orders as the parent element (so the tracking got hidden too) but on right click also opens the tracking information on a new tab to avoid the dimming unpleasantness.

On trying to leave feedback about it and that won't open too. Disable adblock again and to discover the same dimming parent overlay element applied to this new feedback form with the fancy edges that cut me off from the content instead of opening a new tab or a panel on the right.

My anger and frustration seeing it: Just look at it, how pretty and trendy it looks with the edges, like that is so much important than anything else, such as the comfort of my eyes and me seeing the content behind it like that is going to make me feel very happy that I'd smile  bullshit:.

The person who put that there: The user is very stupid and confused, don't know what they are doing and can get confused at seeing the feedback form and the contents behind it at the same time where it could be displaying so much of information that it becomes incomprehensible to them so we'll shroud around it, make it look like everything is paused in the background so they can concentrate on the very the difficult and complicated task of leaving feedback.

Sorry I tend to get a bit angry when I feel insulted and patronized like that.

Basically all the stuff that "professional" web designers do, in order to make their work look like it took effort to make, and therefore was worth the fees!

Joke: Then I bet the use of that dimming overlay class element: .oly_mask hinges on some web designers continued employment at Ebay.

I just noticed something on scrolling:

As I accidentally scrolled, instead of the "Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer" extension hiding the form it hid the overlay instead.
Isn't that nice but then I still see it flash on and off.

[MrMobodies]

It has been a while since I ordered off RS components but I found really really slow to discover to my horror that it was these stupid annoying animations that appear and flash during loading by the supposed "loading" or "transitioning" element. It is not just a few but when there are many results the page is plastered with these animated placeholders and it seemed to me slower on large results. When hidden it seem quicker Very STUPID! like that is more important waiting for these things to properly appear at the expense of wasting power and slowing everything down


32-1% 31% % wasted on sh*t that does absolutely NOTHING useful but cause it to slow down wasting cpu time and power as usual.

Chatbot plastered with them:

26%-1% 25% wasted on the animated placeholders in that chatbot.


1% cpu usage when hidden:

and this thing whilst isn't as bad as the dimming overlays I still don't like the background covered over.


As I was typing in the search box that seems to slow it down to with the suggestions and other stuff in white boxes that I found annoying.



Adblock:

uk.rs-online.com##.sc-bdVaJa.sc-bwzfXH.sc-jzJRlG.ePfvlR
uk.rs-online.com##div.relative.overflow-hidden
##div.relative.overflow-hidden
##.lp_skeleton-window-body
##.lp_skeleton-header
##.lp_skeleton-box
##.lp_skeleton-message
##.lp_skeleton-visitor
##.lp_skeleton-agent
##.lp_skeleton-input
##.1p_skeleton-window-body
##.2p_skeleton-window-body
##.2p_skeleton-header
##.2p_skeleton-box
##.2p_skeleton-message
##.2p_skeleton-visitor
##.2p_skeleton-agent
##.2p_skeleton-input
##.2p_skeleton-window-body
uk.rs-online.com##.sc-bdVaJa.sc-bwzfXH.SearchBar__RecentlySearchedListItem-okj0vs-7.kyGcCA
##..SearchBar__RecentlySearchedListItem-okj0vs-7
uk.rs-online.com##.sc-bdVaJa.SearchBar__RecentlySearched-okj0vs-5.iLmUBE
uk.rs-online.com##.sc-bdVaJa.PredictiveResults__PredictiveResultsContainer-sc-1oxyjyz-2.dWRSLJ.predictive-results-container
.predictive-results-container
uk.rs-online.com##.predictive-results-container
##.predictive-results-container
uk.rs-online.com##.sc-bdVaJa.SearchBar__RecentlySearched-okj0vs-5.iLmUBE

sc-bdVaJa.PredictiveResults__PredictiveResultsContainer-sc-1oxyjyz-2.dWRSLJ.predictive-results-container

What an insult I don't like predictive text or anything second guessing me like that and irritating me with things that changes as I type.

With all the user insulting shit hidden above I find it a pleasure once again to search to be left alone without the intrusion and harassment of things I don't want there, are not useful, slow the page down and cause me problems.

[Someone]

The best suggestion! not in stock for months 

[RJSV]

Yeah, I'm also both irritated and impeded by the auto-complete stuff.  My (Adnoid) mobile screen keyboard gives these really stupid completes, sometimes several words, that only make sense to themselves, not to the sentence they are immersed in.
And also recently has that smeary crayon looking 'trail' starts showing, if you drag finger.

   By the way, much of the screen touch icons etc frequently DONT WORK, whenever I've tried to use left hand fingers, as the 'response' to touch is kinda like a crazed young dog, always pulling back on leash.
   I keep thinking....'' ...want a competitor, I want a competitor, to flee to, buying these consumer products''!

[MrMobodies]

Mouser dimming overlay on search and suggestions:

mouser.co.uk###BG_overlay_asresults
mouser.co.uk##.BG_overlay
mouser.co.uk##.as-list
mouser.co.uk###as-results-067
mouser.co.uk##.as-results

Apart from the dimming overlay, the search suggestions don't look as spammy and there is an option to switch it off but I always want it off.


Furious to find this which hurts my eyes:

Had difficulty in debug where pausing it continues to load to other page.

Using Palemoon which is slow and I was able to use Adblock element picker to capture it in time.

uk.rs-online.com##.sc-dd976b9f-0.bJkiHt
uk.rs-online.com##[data-testid="page-loader"]

After killing the overlay the loading next it seems to be virtually instant. Turn off Adblock went back to the previous page and clicked "guest checkout" then the 5 second delay. Very stupid.

[Bryn]

Had my experience with websites having horrid or otherwise bloated web design and to be honest, there's no need to stuff in so many scripts. Regarding that issue, sometimes I have it with Amazon when I'm looking at the page of an item I'm viewing and I get a yellow bar dropping down in Firefox telling me about an unresponsive script a few seconds later.

Other times I come across a website that uses up far too much CPU or whatever, I just come off it immediately and never come to it again.

[Infraviolet]

Bryn, try NoScript from Giorgio Maone.

[Nominal Animal]

I habitually use NoScript and uBlock Origin (currently with Firefox 114.0 on Linux Mint 20.3).
For me, ads and animations distract me too much.  I either block them and interact, or I do not interact.

[MrMobodies]

Other times I come across a website that uses up far too much CPU or whatever, I just come off it immediately and never come to it again.

If it is during loading that could be the animated skeletons placeholders (flashing where the gradients change) that come on and off which my blocklist seems to be full of.

They call these things, transition/loaders/preloaders/loading etc but the ones on that blocklist aren't. It's all animation only. They do NOTHING in terms of loading but annoy, slow down the page significantly on load, slow everything else down and piss me off. I think it is a very stupid idea.

Another thing I am noticing also in that blocklist are videos on news websites that auto start, goes into miniplayer on scrolling down at the bottom right on or near the contents and remain stuck there (totally against like uncloseable fixed headers and widgets) which I class as intrusion and harassment over my viewing area and worse than the adverts which I don't mind as long as they don't do the same. A couple of weeks ago  I noticed NewEgg put one up which I hid.

[madires]

Firefox:
- Edit
- Settings
- Privacy & Security
- Permissions
- Autoplay
- Settings
- set 'Default for all websites' to 'Block Audio and Video'

[Bryn]

Bryn, try NoScript from Giorgio Maone.

I've heard of it before, but never got round to getting it. I'll give it a shot and see if it makes a difference.

For me, ads and animations distract me too much.

I believe the feeling is unanimous to us all...

[MrMobodies]

Haven't used it for a while and noticed page now only really slow but whole thing freezing.
I found out what it was, not noticeable at first as the animation on the placeholders are slow but went absolutely mad trying to find the culprit.

##.pulse

Page reload and the placeholders are there but the same tone of colour with no changing/flashing and no cpu usage on pause so it was the flashing class element over it (.pulse) doing that.


One element can cause so much havoc and ruin it.

Very STUPID idea. Why can't they leave it alone without causing annoyance for the user, delays and affecting performance.

Was going to see some anticipated video of Louise Rossman about the Google DRM thing but now I feel angry/aggravated and put off.

[MrMobodies]

More of this CPU hog/page slowing crap from Linkedin:


Adblock:

linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__wrapper.profile-creator-shared-loading__update-image
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__wrapper
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__update-image
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__shimmer.pvs-loader__shimmer--fill-area
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__shimmer
linkedin.com##.pvs-loader__shimmer--fill-area
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__wrapper linkedin.com
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-1
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-2
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-3
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-4
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-5
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-6
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-7
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-8
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-9
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-10
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-11
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-12
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-13
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-14
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-15
linkedin.com##.profile-creator-shared-loading__skeleton-border-radius-16

Thinking of it they are not bl**dy loaders that they are named after as they don''t load any of the contents or parts of the webpage that depend on it to work. All they seem to do is spam the page with unwanted annoying flashing animations and slow down everything down by cycling through gradients and that's it

Seems to add about 2 - 3 seconds.
Reload page and about a second bang without all that flashing nonsense.

[Bryn]

Honestly, what is the point of stuffing all that crap in websites these days? I guess we'll never know...

[MrMobodies]

I got a response from Odysee, just checked and they did something useful. I see they removed the flashing thing over the placeholders and it doesn't seem to slow everything down now on page load with the .pulse element showing, 1 to 2 seconds and the content loads.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 1:48 PM EDT, Hello <hello@odysee.com>
We pushed up something to address this  , look better?

Best Regards

Seems a lot faster page load without stalling and no irritation from the flashing.
From that response it's not often I smile but I think they love their users.

Thank you very much Odysee for listening and helping on this occasion.

Much appreciated.

[SilverSolder]

Nice that somebody does actually care!   I might start using Odysee more, it looks kind of interesting.

[MrMobodies]

Added poll, accidentally added two not well thought out.

[Nominal Animal]

You missed the only option I need, "All of the above", just before the two last choices.

[Ranayna]

Of the ones you listed, the only one that causes me to immediately leave a webpage is autoplaying video and audio, except on something like a videoplayer where you would expect a video to play.

All these spinners and placeholders i actually do not really mind as much, because if used properly, they prevent an issue that you do not have listed in your poll: Content jumping.
Jumping content is hugely annoying to me, often even causing me to misclick if navigation buttons move.

Especially banner ads were often hugely annoying in that regard, but sometimes this also happens with other dynamic content.
Placeholders help with that. But an empty placeholder can be confusing, the spinners can help with that, making it clear that there really is something still missing.

This adds significant complexity to the code though. And more complex code can break more easy and is often slow. So i totally get your frustation.

[MrMobodies]

All these spinners and placeholders i actually do not really mind as much, because if used properly... But an empty placeholder can be confusing, the spinners can help with that, making it clear that there really is something still missing

If they spin once only with a percentage in the middle based on the real loading progress fine but when there are many of them based on an animation (fake loading spinner) and they whizz around and around and around and around after every page load or permanently when the page hangs I find that tells me bugger all and irritates me seeing them go around constantly.

If it says "Loading..." in the placeholders and I remember seeing that many years ago (and without placeholder on some websites) I find that much more nicer and less distracting.

you do not have listed in your poll: Content jumping.
Jumping content is hugely annoying to me, often even causing me to misclick if navigation buttons move.

Added to poll: Page view manipulation; Content jumping/page shift/shrink or expand
Is that okay?

Especially banner ads were often hugely annoying in that regard, but sometimes this also happens with other dynamic content.
Placeholders help with that.

Added to poll: Aggressive advertising; dialogues or same ad on either sides flashing

Let me know if you think you can reword those better.

I don't want to include adverts in general as I know they help pay for revenue but if they step out of line with the rest, like set to appear in a fixed position, auto playing and causing distracting then yes. If you have any words that describe such actions I'll add them on the poll.

Just remembered... Whitespaces.

I don't really want to add any more as the list seems to becoming too big.

[Nominal Animal]

Of the ones you listed, the only one that causes me to immediately leave a webpage is autoplaying video and audio, except on something like a videoplayer where you would expect a video to play.

I've disabled autoplay on my Firefox.  The downside is that Youtube does silly things, like if it has to block while playing after caching the previous content for several minutes (for example, if you pause to get a cup of beverage of choice), it won't always auto-resume after it runs out of cached content, and I need to click play (or press K) to continue.  Minor annoyance compared to having autoplay enabled, in my opinion.  Possibly designed so, to ensure users find disabling autoplay to be more work than it is worth.

[MrMobodies]

Nominal Animal, what puts me off Firefox on the last version I tested in late 2020 was a stupid dimming overlay that appears and cover up the page on the tiny dialogues. I remember one for offers and one to exit browser etc which is very uncomfortable for my eyes and I take great offense with the covering up of contents which I find more than intrusion but like interference and disrespect for the user.

A small dialogue in the middle of the page should not warrant the whole page to be obscured. Very STUPID idea who thought that was perfectly fine. I might be reading something, I find I can't scroll as a dialogue appears, okay fine but cutting me off completely that is what I find as totally insensitive and disrespectful:

That browsing area seems small but I have a large screen.

I opened up a thread on Mozilla about it explaining the issue asking how do I switch it off or a setting to do so, which was waiting to be approved and it got shut down and disappeared and I thought that is is that  F*** you Mozilla once again and I'd just stick to Vivaldi that does not have this patronising rubbish put all over it nor any work trying to search through and set preferences in about:config. On mobile 68, One of them on page load was autozooming and refocusing in the middle. Now why would I want that. I don't mind my page position saved on backwards and forwards but to assume I'd want every page to be focused in a particular place set by the developers.

I use to like Firefox until what I hearing "the Google thugs" and Alex Limi got in it and started about the javascript button. I found it became unstable and slow for a while when they tried to embed flashplayer and make it run on every page that didn't need it and then setup a fake page crash/overlay message if I killed the the flash executable. Another STUPID idea. Why not have an option; use built in flash, external or off and not bother with hiding the page when something happens to it. I continued to use Firefox 22 right up to 2019 and spent some time adjusting ESR 78 just before they plastered 80 with the dimming overlays.

Also another thing that put me off is the message they put up about:config where as before there was a tick box not to show again.

I don't think it is about the user anymore, it is about what the developers want for the user, trying to think for the user as if the user is stupid an confused don't know what they are doing, get's easily confused with too much information so they need dimming overlays to hide things.

Also for inaccessible pages I see they changed it to something I also class as patronising and insulting:

Isn't that effectively calling the user dumb and stupid in about it being human when it isn't?
and the about:config page


Here is how I feel about it.... hate hate hate hate hate hate hate because I feel looked down upon and treated as stupid and the amount of things I do to it and I still can't get it the way I want or the way it was before.

Another thing I can't turn off is the colour of the URL on bar on selection but then I noticed Chrome started to do that too but not that thickness/intensity the last time I checked.

[PlainName]

A small dialogue in the middle of the page should not warrant the whole page to be obscured.

I am going to disagree about the dimming in that Firefox case. It is showing that the dialog is modal and that you cannot interact with the stuff that is greyed out. Imagine not having any indication of that, and you don't see the dialog (because it either doesn't stand out or your brain just notices it as another of many similar that have been and gone), and you instead tear your hair out trying to get a button to be pressed or type in a URL or something. BTDT when the modal dialog has popped up under the application that's dead to input...

[MrMobodies]

I am going to disagree about the dimming in that Firefox case. It is showing that the dialog is modal and that you cannot interact with the stuff that is greyed out. Imagine not having any indication of that, and you don't see the dialog (because it either doesn't stand out or your brain just notices it as another of many similar that have been and gone),

I don't have the same problem with noticing dialogues. I see them. It wasn't like that before and I never had a problem until it went like that and can't find a setting to stop it doing that in the browser. It affects my eyes. Not all of us may want that. Just because something maybe helpful doesn't mean it should be forced upon everybody and everything.

In the instance I try to click behind the dialogue window bar flashes just like with some cookie notices (animation based). Much more nicer than the effect the other has on my eyes.
The dialogue window flashes:
Palemoon and Firefox ESR 75 until 81


Vivaldi (Chrome 90)

No dialogue window frame but I still see it. Dialogues being made inconspicuous with no frame or outline should not be be a warrant to cover up the entire contents (way past it) as a way to make the user notice where it has massive effect on the brightness/contrast on large parts of their screen to be able to cause some people discomfort. I find that silly, like the saying going round the houses and I am not talking just about one button alone.

And you instead tear your hair out trying to get a button to be pressed or type in a URL or something. BTDT when the modal dialog has popped up under the application that's dead to input...

Of course and it isn't just that ONE button alone I find it is a growing trend, it seems to be getting everywhere, In Chrome; starting from F8 pause/debugger, clear history, file downloads (keep files) last time I checked the printing dialogue. I find it becoming excessive and it hurts my eyes. That's why and me feeling cut off is not nice either (but not necessarily with very large dialogues that occupy most of it.

For websites, imagine reading a newspaper and completely focused, I come along, distract you, and cover up the contents you are reading now how would you feel?

On the other hand I realize you may not feel the same way.

What they could have done which I think would really help, is at LEAST link the overlay to the background/system colours. For example a dimming overlay may suit a dark mode setting so the sudden change shouldn't affect make my eyes feel uncomfortable. If not using dark mode just a light overlay... or even a setting, dialogue overlay... automatic, dark, light or disable but in any case I just want it left alone like before as it adds no benefit to me other than the discomfort.

[SilverSolder]

Another recent annoyance is that sometimes, when using image search, the result is a gallery at the top of the page - which is fine.  But the images are randomly "pulsating", to draw attention to themselves.   Needless to say, it makes it hard to look at the images when you are constantly being distracted like this.  Whoever came up with that idea was not a deep thinker...

[MrMobodies]

If you mean this I think I hid those already:

Adblock

google.com##.Rn1jbe.hieTTe
google.co.uk##.Rn1jbe.hieTTe

I did leave feedback some months ago that I know they need to advertise, it seems alright in itself but if they are then set to do stuff on hover and animate that can irritate/annoy and distract then I am left with no option but to hide them.

Added to poll:  Auto action & mouse hover: Menus/popouts/overlays & expanding/zooming on thumbnail/audio/video autoplay/preview

[Ranayna]

Ugh, i just found something that i hoped died in the 90ies:
A website with a custom mouse cursor. And not just some script kiddies private homepage:

https://pg.asrock.com/mb/

[Nominal Animal]

A website with a custom mouse cursor. And not just some script kiddies private homepage:

But definitely targeted towards the (possibly imagined) people who think script kiddies are cool.  Just look at the flashy effects.

It's the PC motherboard version of audiophoolery, in my opinion.

[PlainName]

A website with a custom mouse cursor.

That is standout terrible ✋

[SilverSolder]

Ugh, i just found something that i hoped died in the 90ies:
A website with a custom mouse cursor. And not just some script kiddies private homepage:

https://pg.asrock.com/mb/

Makes it look like a computer game.  At least it is somewhat on topic!   

[MrMobodies]

Dimming overlays:
https://www.kentonline.co.uk/whats-on/news/10-stunning-cycling-trails-to-try-this-summer-291216/

kentonline.co.uk##.qc-cmp-cleanslate.css-185jk1u
kentonline.co.uk###meterNagBG

Nag
Looking at the name of the element that they named and so they knew truelly well the effect it has on people, nag....
https://www.thefreedictionary.com/nag

nag 1  (năg)
1. To annoy by constant scolding, complaining, or urging.
2. To torment persistently, as with anxiety or pain.
v.intr.
1. To scold, complain, or find fault constantly: nagging at the children.
2. To be a constant source of anxiety or annoyance: The half-remembered

So basically harassment. Contrary to their dialogue saying "THANKS" and "Loyal KentOnline reader"  .

Scrollbars hidden:
Unhide using Chrome extension Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer with option "Make sure page is scrollable" selected.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/sticky-header-hider-aka-f/eagncneohcoiofhknkofdobphnhgblad


Overflow/Scrollbars now showing:

Jumps to top of page on scroll down despite hiding these one of which disables CSS:

||kentonline.co.uk/manifest.json
||kentonline.co.uk/_resources/nag-panel-v6729641.css
||kentonline.co.uk/_resources/Article-v6974705.css
||kentonline.co.uk/_resources/image-gallery-v5674213.css
||kentonline.co.uk/_site/bundle-v7145813.css
||kentonline.co.uk/_resources/font-awesome-svg-5.10.2-v5099857.css
||www.kentonline.co.uk/panels/newsletter-kol$subdocument,domain=www.kentonline.co.ukb

Disable javascript with Chrome extension Quick Javascript Switcher:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/quick-javascript-switcher/geddoclleiomckbhadiaipdggiiccfje

A few things seem to be out of place but no more jumping to the top.

I think I'll just add it to my excluded list of sites on websearch in future but it goes to show the contempt they seem to have for their viewers. Nag/torment basically harassing them with dialogues that interrupt and cut them off from the contents... the dialogue doesn't bother me in itself but cut me off from the contents with the dimming overlay and twice with the cookie notice behind it... brightness/contrast interfering on large parts of my page... a big nono.

[ResR]

The worst is web pages that blocks adblocker only to have 80% or more page area covered with flashing ads (I'm looking at you Daily Mail)._

[MrMobodies]

Added to poll:

Auto action & mouse hover: Menus/popouts/overlays & expanding/zooming on thumbnail/audio/video autoplay/preview

Suggestions/predictive texting and history in/under search/text input box (one of my first biggest annoyances way before sticky fixed header nav toolbars)

Clickbait trolling: Pay/authwalls/signup (excluding article limit)

[MrMobodies]

The worst is web pages that blocks adblocker only to have 80% or more page area covered with flashing ads (I'm looking at you Daily Mail)._

Here's my blocklist if you want to try it which I tested with the Daily Mail and I whilst I see the adverts I do not see the floating ones which I WILL KILL as with any element that behaves like that whether or not it is an advert.

It does not specifically target adverts in general and will not use this thread as ways of blocking them willy nilly (need to make revenue) unless it is set the up to harass the viewer and interfere with the contents and maybe that's why it hasn't detected Ublock and Adblock Plus on mine as I have removed the default lists that come with it and target the offending ones by the website's element names rather than the advert hosts themselves unless they are involved with malware and aggressive advertising that go out of their boundary.

See attachment but there are two things I have to find and remove from there on that once use to work and may break other things.

Google maps change where little man on bottom right is no longer displayed to open Street view.
Ebay change where clicking on a picture listing to zoom in removes the browser toolbars.

I forgot to mention with Adblock Plus "Acceptable ads" option must be unticked or some elements rules seem to get ignored such as the Google suggestions.

I reported this issue a number of times in the survey offer which popouts when switching it off that I remove the built in ad blocking filters (Easylist etc) and just use a network blocklist to hide annoying UI crap, fixed headers when possible, suggestions and animations.

[MrMobodies]

Just found this from someone who thinks users will think the slowness will be faster because of the decorations
https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/how-to-build-skeleton-screens-using-css-for-better-user-experience/

APRIL 25, 2022/ #USER EXPERIENCE
Skeleton Loader Example – How to Build a Skeleton Screen with CSS for Better UX 
Israel Mitolu

Assume and dictate user experience to what they think the user thinks as below.

They let the user know that some content is loading and, more importantly, provide an indication of what is loading, whether it's an image, text, card, and so on...

I expect the content to be loaded promptly with content not things that load first that sit there flashing away and slow the whole thing down by cycling through gradients or whatever.

This gives the user the impression that the website is faster because they already know what type of content is loading before it appears. This is referred to as perceived performance.

"because the content is loading it gives the impression that it is faster."
UTTER BULLSHIT

That p*sses me of if anything due to the flashing and slowing the browser down here they seem to be deceptive in making assumptions about what the user is perceiving as if they are stupid and confused and don't know what they are doing.

As much as we developers want our websites to load as quickly as possible, there are times when a lot of data needs to be rendered on the page, so Skeleton screens are a great option.

So slow it down even more under the guise the the user will think it is quick.

Things to keep in mind
* While implementing skeleton screens, we should keep in mind the goal we are trying achieve with the website or app, and prioritize loading the content.

Bullshit again... Rubbish. No you don't.
Link to the above, put all this crap on it that slows it down on page load and pretend/give the user a perception that it is loading quickly.

* Very stupid! Instead these things are being prioritized instead of the contents as it loads first and slows it down as I have experience and found out with the many I screenshot on pause or with javascript switched off.

A skeleton screen is an animated placeholder that simulates the layout of a website while data is being loaded.

A simulation of a website is NOT what I want to see ahead of the contents. If they intend it to be quick none of that nonsense should be necessary.

Why Use Skeleton Screens?
They appear to be faster and are more user friendly.  * Improved perceived performance  * provides both good UX  and helps in increasing conversion rate. 

My thoughts/sarcasm/anger The mass majority (including me as a user) are very stupid, naturally born with a very low iq level and very low natural/intellectual abilities that they won't notice the slowness when we bloat the experience, slow the page load down and pull the wool over their eyes. Because it looks buzzword bullshit: modern, newer, pretty trendy[/i] as we set it, it would appear to them that it is fast and they THINK it improves performance when it DOESN'T and is user friendly because of the flashing and decorations and other people are going to talk about how this prettiness improves performance and gives a better a user experience by seeing how well these things flash.

* More like a DECEPTIVE UX and a conversation about it in threads like this.

When to use them
* Use to notify the user that something is loading when more than one element is loading at the same time.
** Use when loading data takes more than 3 seconds.
*** Use on websites with a lot of traffic.
****Use for a background or long-running process.

* What? and load these useless things up as first priority than all the things that matter to the content after.
**Slow it down even more
*** The user may tell when the website is slow when content GRADUALLY loads on it but if there is animation crap everywhere that is slowing the page load down and they may not notice the difference due to the slowness and with "Improved perceived performance" to make it appear faster  sounds contradictory to me.
**** So permanently hog the cpu until somewhere down the page.


That takes over 8% cpu time every time those tile things reload up with that effect.

Conclusion
You made it all the way to the end! You've learned about skeleton loading, and how it contributes to user experience  by * creating the illusion of speed  when loading data, and you've implemented your own.

I hope you found this tutorial useful and that it serves as a good starting point for creating various skeleton loading screens.

It is a blooming webpage full of text and pictures why bog it down with this page slowing crap before the contents? The user will think it is faster and gives them a good experience by how pretty it looks.

If you found this article insightful, do share it with your friends and network. Also, feel free to connect with me on Twitter and my blog where I share resources and articles* to make you a better dev. 

* Creating an illusion of speed by taking up/wasting cpu time/resources on the decorations. So Israel Mitolu admitted it, all this page slowing crap to create a delusion and users will think that a bloated slow UI experience is quick when it isn't by how pretty it looks.

Yes it is insightful how web developers like this are out there and how they treat their users, assume what they want, and bloat the page/interfere and with the decorations they'd think it improves performance.

Did I just say as I often do, "Do they think the user is stupid and are effectively calling them stupid?"

** Adding this bloat and assuming users will think it is faster when it is slow makes you a better web developer. 

Reminds me of this post by BD139:

I write web apps a lot of the time. I have done since the web appeared in the 1990s.

* I have seen a massive decline in front end quality in the last decade and you know why?

Sometimes stuff is actually just done and people have a fear of that. Once it's done they're of no value.

Thus the "never done" attitude is what happens. Thus what do you do to something that is done? Shovel more features into it. Next thing you know your web site looks like an Indian train, except less useful.

* They have people like that working there, Israel Mitolu from Freecodecamp with that attitude and a fixed perception of the user?

A simple text "loading" behind whatever is loading and a basic outline has got to be a lot better and less overhead than all that crap above.
I wonder do these web developers do any performance/overhead testing on their own work to see what impact it may on the browser & cpu usage or do they just deceive/delude the user with crap like the above plastered everywhere?

What do you think?

[mendip_discovery]

One it the annoying traits I see often enough is pages that keep flashing up xx people recently viewed this product, xx sold recently. It is designed to generate a FoMO response but to me it's just another distraction on a webpage.

I remember being at college in the 2000s and it being quite a big design mistake to have objects move around as the pages loads. The layout should load and respond to screen size but not have text or images move about, this was partly because of 56k dial up so a image might take ages to load and cause everything to shift about. Though I see it doesn't really matter anymore, or they just dont care.

[MrMobodies]

Added to poll: Flash/fade/moving(appearing and disappearing) popout widgets/sliders: xx people viewed this item

[MrMobodies]

I went absolutely mad loosing me tempter to discover this today that I called Amazon to complain but found it so difficult to get through.


Massive big SPAMMY toolbar harassment appearing down the page as the page loads.

1/3 of my browsing area:

Takes up large part of the screen, have to scroll more and now isn't that stupid? as well serves as the major distraction for something totally unwanted.



I go there to look at the contents, scroll to the bottom to next page not sit there and stare at a large toolbar stuck all the time.

At first I saw the nav toolbar suddenly hide on the slightest scroll but kept on jumping to the top of the page with the arrow keys or when I let go of the scroll bar forcing me to turn off the "Sticky Header Hider aka Fixed Header Fixer".

I had difficulty, maybe I am not looking in the right place trying to contact a human by phone and kept on going in circles pointing to F&Q but can't find anything to do with website/webpage feedback apart from the items I purchased.

I tried different numbers I found all out of service or hang up. I saw something  under accessibility (I thought was to do with using the website) with a callback:

Transcript from auto attendant

"Welcome to the Amazon accessibility line. This line is dedicated to the support our customers with disabilities. Is this doesn't apply to you can get in contact with us by visiting www.amazon.co.uk/contactus or by selecting the customer services option from the main menu in the Amazon APP   dot just to let you know..."

Yes I do have a disability, I don't know if it related to but it should not require it or proof I have one to talk about a change they made that interferes and affects the viewing or concentration of the page/browsing experience of many that they decide to do willy nilly.

I notice it happens after the page is loaded so maybe script driven. Using Ublock logger, filter by script and pausing it after it appeared, added them to the blocklist and removed one at a time narrowing it down to the culprit:
Adblock

images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41k9TQrnHzL.js

Doesn't appear anymore.

Notice images... Isn't that path suppose to be for graphics and images? Or is it that some graphics designer is obviously looking to make problems that don't exist or fighting for their job or a promotion by sticking the script to trigger it where they can to show "how much it helped people" what "genius they are" by harassing the users with intrusion/unwanted things and ramming that navtoolbar in their faces, like it is "suppose to help" people as they are stupid and confused and because it is there it is quicker and easier for them to get to and will generate more clicks for Amazon... 

Couldn't they have just set the position from absolute to fix instead of a 21,900 character script (not sure if it does other things) ... so the extension works without jumping but I wouldn't want that either.

I expect a revert (prefered) or a profile option.
I find it awful and intrusive to STICK things that maybe totally unwanted in the browsing area especially at that size.
Very STUPID idea (1/3) over the content.

I sent the screenshots for an answer back.

I pay for Amazon Prime but if I get a bullshit reply back with buzzwords, trendy/newer/modern/ etc they can forget about the Prime membership.

Also I notice more dimming overlays that hurt my eyes like behind the accessibility callback dialogue which happens to parent of the dialogue so can't hide that one.

This crap seems to be getting worse and worse.

[PlainName]

Isn't that path suppose to be for graphics and images?

It's whatever they want it to be. They could put spreadsheets in there, or shove images in ~/downloads, and it means nothing to anyone except the developers and their webserver. Indeed, the path may not even exist in reality on any filesystem.

[DavidAlfa]

Anything after Geocities era became bloated crap 

[MrMobodies]

I am not sure if that script does just that or other functions which would be a lot of characters and work when they could achieve the same effect with one word with the object in question to do with the positioning which is why I thought it might have been by some desperate web designer and seeing how that navigation changes as soon as that script loads.

https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41k9TQrnHzL.js

Code: [Select]

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b||b===q},isNotBlank:function(b){return"string"===typeof b&&""!==e(b)},isBlank:function(b){return!h.isNotBlank(b)},setIfEmpty:function(b,c,a){b[c]===q&&(b[c]=a)},makeComponentId:function(b,c){return h.isNotBlank(b)&&h.isNotBlank(c)?b+":"+c:""},freeze:function(b){return Object.freeze?Object.freeze(b):b},isFunction:c.isFunction,assert:function(b,c){if(!b)throw Error(c);},hide:function(b){c(b).addClass("aok-hidden")},show:function(b){c(b).removeClass("aok-hidden")}};return h.freeze(h)})});

I noticed header is mentioned 3 times.

e(function(d,w){b=m({memo:null,headers:{}},b);b.success=function(a,b,c){e.all(f).then(function(){g(a,b,c);d({response:a,statusText:b,xhr:c})})["catch"](function(a){l(c,b,a);w({xhr:c,statusText:b,error:a})})};b.error=function(a,b,d){l(a,b,d);w({xhr:a,statusText:b,error:d})};b.chunk=function(a){f.push(r(a,n,b.memo))};b.headers=m(b.headers||{},{"x-amazon-rush-fingerprints":h.fingerprints()});c.ajax(a,b)})}});"use

along with metrics and "loadcomplete".

this},setCount:function(a,b){this.validateIsNotPublished()&&this.getMetricsAdapter().setCount(a,
this._scope,b);return this},loadComplete:function(a){this.validateIsNotPublished()&&(this.getMetricsAdapter().publish("ld",this._scope,a),this._isPublished=!0)}});var

Correct me if you think I am wrong, looking at that, so they collect page loading statistics (metrics) and then alter and set the nav toolbar to spam the users and follow down the page just after the page has finished loading.

I still feel agitated and angry with a headache by the whole thing and my night ruined where I don't feel like doing anything. They treat me like I am stupid and confused using a script to interfere/meddle and shove a massive great toolbar in my face that once use to be helpful where the extension don't help but cause it to jump back to it at top after loading.

Joke: Mass majority very stupid and confused...  If we don't have the navigation bar RAMMED into their faces constantly as they scroll down the page, it would be like removing the handrails off the staircases where they won't be able to navigate their way through and they'd loose themselves and fall down and we can't have that  .

[PlainName]

and set the nav toolbar to spam the users and follow down the page just after the page has finished loading.

I was surprised by this because I don't recall it happening to me. So I fired up Waterfox and did a search, scroll down and the header is stuck to the top of the page - it scrolls off the top as if it is fixed in place. But I run uBlock and uMatrix, not to mention some other things that could affect this. Nevertheless, Amazon is one of the few sites I allow to run amok and freeing it up totally didn't make an difference.

So I tried in an old Vivaldi browser and same. Fired up IE11 and it asks if I will allow ActiveX to run - no fear! Static header, so I took a couple of virtual valium and allowed ActiveX. No difference - header still stuck in place and scrolls off the top.

I think they must have your number and write this stuff especially for you 

[MrMobodies]

I'll try another machine and a proxy server

Rustcollector (EEVBLOG) tried it last night even with the.co.uk and it didn't happen to him.

It does it with Palemoon but header hides on scroll up.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=coffee+maker&crid=1C2PU4YKREXGG&sprefix=coffee+make%2Caps%2C79&ref=nb_sb_noss_2


Doesn't do it with https://nl.hideproxy.me/


Maybe they track by IP and I did some tests
I have two broadband lines.
I tried a different computer that is routed to another broadband line. Cleared cache incase. Didn't do it.
Tested by screen size and reduced it to laptop size nothing.

As soon as I switched gateways then it started to happen after clearing cache.[/s]

It seems intermittent and random.

Different vivaldi/chrome profile with cookies cleared

Laptop: Vivaldi: stays on all the time until blocking script.
Palemoon: header shows on scrolling up.

Desktop: Only started on a generic Chrome\vivaldi browser profile after switching gateways (from wan1 to wan2) on router to the same on as the laptop.
Didn't do it with Palemoon even after clearing cache.
Toggled the gateway back and opened a profile for youtube which I hadn't used for a while, cleared cache and turned off adblock/ublock/headerhider fixer
Not appearing.
Disabled all extensions.
Not appearing.
Palemoon nothing.

Copy URL no fixed header and cleared cache
<Lost screenshot oops>
Generic profile after switching gateway before youtube profile:




Opened generic vivaldi profile and saved URL and it did it.
Copied URL into browser profile for youtube with all extensions disabled didn't do it.

Desktop:
Palemoon:


Vivaldi Youtube profile:


Refreshing all three both above for sometime and sticky header on Vivaldi generic browser but not the empty Youtube one or palemoon (apart from laptop) now regardless or gateway switching.

I think the track by IP might be coincidence and this is just random at the moment.

[MrMobodies]

Just notice looking back at my screen shots on some parts of the site and it seems to become more and more bloated in other ways.


In comparison to this:


I forgot to post about some other issues a month ago of auto playing videos as I scroll down the page and promotional items that span the page horizontally from other items in the last and get in the way and distract that t I had to block.

I'll try to find them later with the elements to hide.

As a Prime member I don't expect promotional brands to appear on search and flood my field of vision with auto playing videos.

Not signed into prime on that Palemoon which I used to test something but it does it on my dedicate Vivaldi/Chrome profile signed in see last attachment.

[MrMobodies]

Absolutely p*ssed to find my scrollbars keep on disappearing and after disabling adblock tiny white dialogue appears "get £5 off when you purchase in our app!" whilst dimming everything else suddenly/cutting me off completely from contents and discomfort for my  eyes.


Culprit:

Code: [Select]

ir.ebaystatic.com/cr/v/c1/globalheader_widget_platform__v2-b70676194b.js
Feedback:
1 star out of 5.

Scrollbars are taken away. Disable adblock and a dimming overlay with tiny white dialogue "get £5 off when you purchase in our app!"
This is harassment.

ir.ebaystatic.com/cr/v/c1/globalheader_widget_platform__v2-b70676194b.js

Dimming overlays which suddenly appears hurts my eyes, cutting me off from the background completely is entirely the reason why I won't be using your stupid app as I won't have the browser controls to hide things like this put up with absolutely no regard for the user.

I think they did something like this before without the feeble offer.
No amount would make me use the stupid APP when it won't have browser controls to hide spammy behaviour and screen dimming/flashing overlays.

[JPortici]

You should add another option to the poll: Infinite scrolling.

[Ranayna]

Ugh, yes.
Now Google has started that crap as well.

[MrMobodies]

I see they renamed it from merch to recs.

29% and an annoying FLASH during every page load.


Adblock Culprits:

ebay.co.uk##.recs-loader
ebay.com##.recs-loader
##.recs-loader
ebay.co.uk##.recs-module
ebay.com##.recs-module
##.recs-module
ebay.co.uk##.recs-skeleton
ebay.com##.recs-skeleton
##.recs-skeleton
ebay.co.uk##.recs-loading
ebay.com##.recs-loading
##.recs-loading.recs-title
##.recs-loading
##.recs-module
ebay.co.uk##.recs-loading.recs-text-row
ebay.com##.recs-loading.recs-text-row
##.recs-loading.recs-text-row
ebay.co.uk##recs-loading.recs-text-row.recs-section-one
ebay.com##.recs-loading.recs-text-row.recs-section-one
##.recs-loading recs-text-row recs-section-one
ebay.co.uk##.recs-loading.recs-text-row.recs-section-two
ebay.com##.recs-loading.recs-text-row.recs-section-two
##.recs-loading.recs-text-row.recs-section-two

If it is going to do that I rather not see it.

[MrMobodies]

Code: [Select]

https://ir.ebaystatic.com/cr/v/c1/globalheader_widget_platform__v2-b70676194b.jsI am going to see what happens if can block the path after c1 to try and avoid anymore of that.

I just take offense after I open many tabs to find the scrollbars disappear on each one and when I find out why it wasn't with good intentions such as being spammed at with the background interfered with or obscured cutting me off from what I am doing.

Looks like they have people working there doing this have no regard for the user and ignore feedback about the dimming overlays.

They seem so desperate for me to use their stupid APP but not with that attitude with dimming the background and nothing done about it despite years of leaving feedback against it.

Also sense ARROGANCE, "oh look you only have a few days to use this feeble offer. and what a joke:

1. Open the camera app on your phone b*gger *ff I'd never use my phone for that.
2. Scan this code your your phone no way
3. Go to the app store * and the the app. **
4. Start saving More like WASTING time.

* Bullshit: Extra steps such as create an account (app store), SIGN IN into appstore, download an app, ** then SIGN INTO that...

I should not NEED a STUPID "APP" to start *saving* whatever they are referring to time or money.
I can find what I think are bargains already I do not need an "APP" to determine that.

I know something that is so much more easier, why don't they just give me a £20 gift voucher with no minimum limit like they did 20 years ago so I can buy from whatever listing I want. All I have to do is click buy it now, pay for it (with voucher applied) and that's it.

[MrMobodies]

Just noticed these things again but they don't flash or seem to take much much resources especially during pausing the page.


Well this is nice for a change.

I still don't like them as it is extra things to load but a lot better than resource wasting decorations that flash and annoy.

If they stop that animated placeholder nonsense I am hoping that others would follow such as Ebay.

One good change so thank you very much Amazon.