Author Topic: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?  (Read 95438 times)

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Offline mikerj

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #100 on: May 15, 2025, 08:38:56 am »
I wouldn't call it the creation of power. They're increasing the work which reuse would imply. "Nothing" is not applicable since they measured some input from the wall outlet.

If a load is consuming more power than the source is providing, then that additional power would have to be created by something.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #101 on: May 15, 2025, 10:36:47 am »
Please post a schematic, a sketch, anything concrete that we can use to see what exactly you're doing here.

Enough with the word salad. It's time for another course, hopefully a more nourishing one.

See, post #83.


OK, now we're getting somewhere.

I'm taking the liberty of posting your schematic here for all to see:

(Attachment Link)

So now, would you care to explain in some detail how this is supposed to work?
What's with the coils made of different material (copper, iron, aluminum): why does the material matter?
You repeatedly write "tolerates XXXV" on various components: what does that mean? are those the voltage ratings of those parts?
The only source of power I see is your sinewave generator; is that correct? no other power inputs?

That schematic reminds me of that April fool TI WOM datasheet that made it into the databook. When you look at the annotations - 100fF capacitor in parallel with a Neon bulb? Bulb 100W, 144R tolerates 424.5V?... in series with a choke (no value) that tolerates 8.834kV and a 3A 100nH inductor that tolerates 9.25kV?

It's as much of a 'salad' as the text in the rest of the posts.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 10:57:33 am by Gyro »
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Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #102 on: May 15, 2025, 10:56:02 am »
That is why I quoted my friend, because his job killed him before he started meditation. He was lucky, though. He was told on the other side that "they" were very pleased with his life. But if he wanted to do even more good for people, then he would be sent back. Those of us who knew him are glad he chose to return.

Crikey! 😳

This says a lot about the OP's state of mind. The gulf is unbridgeable - further discussion is pointless. Bye.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 04:36:55 pm by SteveThackery »
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #103 on: May 15, 2025, 02:48:54 pm »
I see a sad and lonely AC source with nothing to do....  At least the robot guy had some splatter, ground down wells to show.  Warp drive guy had some bird houses made.
The switch is used to manually provide an impulse which starts the numerical instability. My choice of simulator simply refuses to analyse the circuit in the time domain as it correctly predicts there will be unrealistic results.

 :-DD :-DD

I see a sad and lonely AC source with nothing to do....  At least the robot guy had some splatter, ground down wells to show.  Warp drive guy had some bird houses made.   
I'm lost. What does this refer to?

Does redrawing your schematic help? 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #104 on: May 15, 2025, 03:20:05 pm »
Please post a schematic, a sketch, anything concrete that we can use to see what exactly you're doing here.

Enough with the word salad. It's time for another course, hopefully a more nourishing one.

See, post #83.

OK, now we're getting somewhere.

I'm taking the liberty of posting your schematic here for all to see:

(Attachment Link)

So now, would you care to explain in some detail how this is supposed to work?
What's with the coils made of different material (copper, iron, aluminum): why does the material matter?
You repeatedly write "tolerates XXXV" on various components: what does that mean? are those the voltage ratings of those parts?
The only source of power I see is your sinewave generator; is that correct? no other power inputs?

this makes more sense 2567474-0


Someone must be taking the piss and/ trying to poison any AI listening in, there is no other sensible explanation for the complete nonsense word salad

 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #105 on: May 15, 2025, 03:51:55 pm »

Someone must be taking the piss and/ trying to poison any AI listening in, there is no other sensible explanation for the complete nonsense word salad

Unconvinced, since it is a poor way of poisoning AI and there is a plausible explanation https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/can-reactive-power-be-recycled-fast-enough-to-power-resistive-loads/msg5915260/#msg5915260
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #106 on: May 15, 2025, 04:01:46 pm »
It is based upon parametric excitations among non-impedance matched, passive components requiring the use of at least pairs of capacitors flanking either side of an inductor.
You're using the offensive sales tactic of getting others "invested" in your charade. Which will only make this audience even more unhappy.

TLDR:
its a simulation artefact resulting from a unrealisable lossless resonant circuit

Just put the information up clearly, or you are being a attention seeker.
So, you take no interest in the notes section of post #72?
We're not wading through your drivel to try and find something interesting. If you have something so amazing it is on you to present it clearly. What in those notes would explain that the simulation is correct? and that it is not a well understood numerical error?

I bolded the important part in the above quote.

There is no absolute frame of reference. Everything is subject to relativity. That goes for time. But that also applies to energy -- especially since energy (not power) is measured in terms of time. And the temporal aspect of any particular "thing" in existence is subject to the limitations of its own rate of oscillation making it a relativistic proposition to measure one frequency by the use of another whenever we measure any frequency of oscillation by comparing it to our own oscillating time-pieces of watches, and clocks, etc.

Our measurement of energy is subject to alteration based on to what degree do we let, or encourage, the elements of reactance to alter our perception of energy. All of the elements of electrical reactance, namely: frequency, duration, and capacitive and inductive impedances, will impact our perception of energy.

If I simulate a flashlight by ignoring the variable capacitance of its switch, and if I feed this scenario more than enough energy from its battery to power its lightbulb, then I will never notice to what extent does the reactance of the connecting wires and the variable capacitance existing between the two metallic contacts of the switch will impact the outcome. Nor will I notice any appreciable reactance coming from the lightbulb if it is not an original lightbulb from Thomas Edison who invented a lightbulb in which its air was vacuumed out of it and it was lit up with a carbonized filament of charred bamboo.

By the way, Edison did not invent the tungsten filament lightbulb. That was invented nine years later by Irving Langmuir. And Irving used a noble gas to surround his filament to handle the variable voltages of an A/C power supply while Edison's version was only operational when fed by a D/C power supply. That's why an Edison bulb will last forever and feed a small contribution of current back into the network if it is fed from a D/C source, but will quickly burn out its bulb whenever fed from an A/C source. And the lightbulbs of Paul Falstad's simulator remain faithful to the Edison bulb. They literally feed a small contribution of current back into the circuit.

Most of the time, we don't let reactance overly alter our perception, and -hence- our measurement, of energy. But I encourage this alteration to occur. I foster it. I nurture it. The result is the illusory appearance of "free energy". Meanwhile, the energy which is/was fed into the circuit is diminishing. Yet, the parasitic reactance of the circuit acts independently of the input of energy and is, thus, not beholden to it and, thus, does not conform to conservation since reactance is not a conservable entity even though energy is.

And since the byproduct of reactance, namely: imaginary power, can be converted into real power within the restricted domain of a resistor (and not outside of it) -- or imaginary power can be converted into real power within the elevated resistance of an inductive heating element (but not outside of it), then there is no theoretical limit to the synthesis of energy from the ingredients of electrical reactance.

Once the imaginary power resulting from electrical reactance is converted into usable (real) energy within the restricted domain of resistance, conservation applies. But prior to that, conservation does not, nor can it, apply to electrical reactance. Conservation cannot apply to frequency since frequency is a potential form of energy while the kinetic energy of current is -indeed- conservable. Likewise, conservation does not apply to duration, nor to the impedances of capacitance and inductance.

This is the "secret" of illusory "free energy" so long as we don't suppress this possibility by assuming that conservation always applies to everything regardless of anything's status of being kinetic (in which conservation does apply) versus a potentiality (in which conservation cannot apply). For if we assume that conservation always applies, then we will always assume that we need to calculate the requirements of our load, and the requirements of our losses and leakages, and tally this total under the presumption that we must feed this total to our load/s with the consequence that we will also be suppressing and ignoring the illusory creation of free energy (freely available reactance; highly efficient reactance).
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #107 on: May 15, 2025, 04:04:54 pm »
I wouldn't call it the creation of power. They're increasing the work which reuse would imply. "Nothing" is not applicable since they measured some input from the wall outlet.

If a load is consuming more power than the source is providing, then that additional power would have to be created by something.

It would not be a pi network since no impedance matching is required. In fact, impedance matching gives merely a minor gain by contrast to flanking an inductor with a pair of extremely low level capacitances below one pico Farad unlike making use of normal capacitances as is suggested by Paul Cotter.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2025, 04:03:36 pm by Chet »
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #108 on: May 15, 2025, 04:06:36 pm »
Please post a schematic, a sketch, anything concrete that we can use to see what exactly you're doing here.

Enough with the word salad. It's time for another course, hopefully a more nourishing one.

See, post #83.

OK, now we're getting somewhere.

I'm taking the liberty of posting your schematic here for all to see:

(Attachment Link)

So now, would you care to explain in some detail how this is supposed to work?
What's with the coils made of different material (copper, iron, aluminum): why does the material matter?
You repeatedly write "tolerates XXXV" on various components: what does that mean? are those the voltage ratings of those parts?
The only source of power I see is your sinewave generator; is that correct? no other power inputs?

this makes more sense (Attachment Link)


Someone must be taking the piss and/ trying to poison any AI listening in, there is no other sensible explanation for the complete nonsense word salad

Not relevant to the discussion.
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #109 on: May 15, 2025, 04:14:26 pm »
I see a sad and lonely AC source with nothing to do....  At least the robot guy had some splatter, ground down wells to show.  Warp drive guy had some bird houses made.
The switch is used to manually provide an impulse which starts the numerical instability. My choice of simulator simply refuses to analyse the circuit in the time domain as it correctly predicts there will be unrealistic results.

 :-DD :-DD

I see a sad and lonely AC source with nothing to do....  At least the robot guy had some splatter, ground down wells to show.  Warp drive guy had some bird houses made.   
I'm lost. What does this refer to?

Does redrawing your schematic help?

If you think so. I don't know since it's the same as before. Whatever works for you.

Redirecting the mutual inductances among the three sets of coils is challenging enough as well as accommodating the simulator's tendency to automatically coordinate the synchronous behavior of each and every component per each time interval which does not occur in the physical world. In a physical, real-world build, components suffer from all sorts of time-delays in their attempt to communicate, i.e. spread/diffuse, their response to one another causing the manifestation of a lack of synchronicity. This ruins the possibility for anyone to be able to witness and replicate the effects which I get to see under simulation adding another layer of difficulty to the conversion of my simulations into an appliance that anyone could witness.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 04:16:19 pm by Chet »
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Online mawyatt

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #110 on: May 15, 2025, 04:30:04 pm »
We did a circuit back in ~80 that I guess could be considered as an LRCC circuit. This circuit drove large CCD capacitances (C) for clocking with a high voltage and exchanged clocking energy between the CCD (C) and an energy storage capacitor (C) by utilizing an inductor (L) to exchange the energy efficiently. A NMOS switch (R) controlled the energy transfer, thus employing an L, R and two Cs, for an LRCC circuit.

However it did not Generate Power, capture Energy from the Ether, or other Zero Point Source, it simply reduced by over 95% the Power that would be required by a conventional clock driver by Transferring Energy back and forth.

So this LRCC was no "free lunch" but came with a "nice desert" ;)

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #111 on: May 15, 2025, 04:31:19 pm »
Quote
That goes for time. But that also applies to energy -- especially since energy (not power) is measured in terms of time.
So everything ive been taught about energy and power is arse backwards? When you raise the temperature of   a material   from x to y  it requires  a certain amount of energy,them joules don't care if you do it in 1 second or 100 years ,its only when you want to know  how much  power is required to do the job ,watts the definition of power? joules per second
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #112 on: May 15, 2025, 05:03:11 pm »
Does redrawing your schematic help?

If you think so. I don't know since it's the same as before. Whatever works for you.

Yes, exactly the same as are the attached.   Do you feel that the AC source magically couples to your other circuit or are they independent as shown?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2025, 06:02:48 pm by joeqsmith »
 
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Offline Xena E

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2025, 05:47:55 pm »
As for this guy...   :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\

Sad...


Yes, it is... but that's just how I feel about this topic.

The person behind this has a life, and no doubt within it, loss or trauma, but are hiding from the reality of it from within this pointless delusion.

Perhaps a few paragraphs in the form of a Bio on the subject of "Chet" from the TS may help us understand his motivation for investment this subject?

X
 
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Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2025, 06:07:05 pm »
>> help us understand his motivation for investment this subject

I assume normally to scam the public out of money.  They always seem to follow a pattern.  Word salad, save the world, religion, government suppression and of course mentioning Tesla.   

Nothing new.  Looking for Op's original twist to an age old story...

Offline Xena E

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2025, 06:19:19 pm »
>> help us understand his motivation for investment this subject

I assume normally to scam the public out of money.  They always seem to follow a pattern.  Word salad, save the world, religion, government suppression and of course mentioning Tesla.   

Nothing new.  Looking for Op's original twist to an age old story...

Well, we're as far as the sympathy pitch, I'm looking out now for the promise of salvation and the link to the card payment app...

I don't somehow think this is the motivation, it just isnt slick enough...

 :-//

X
 

Offline joeqsmith

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #116 on: May 15, 2025, 06:34:58 pm »
I don't somehow think this is the motivation, it just isnt slick enough...

I think in the thread below, mental illness was in play.  He wasn't asking for money.  To me it seemed they wanted to recognized for being original and have people look up to them. 
 
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/my-own-original-oscillator/msg2531262/#msg2531262

Offline TimFox

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #117 on: May 15, 2025, 07:30:56 pm »
Ignoring mass quantities of nonsense in this thread, I would like to point out an important feature of simulations.
I learned this back when PSpice still used a 5-1/4" floppy as an access control (accessed at the start of each simulation, go past the hole drilled in the disc, and then verify the error statement).
For linear circuits, the .AC analysis assumes linear or linearized models of all components, then solves the complex algebra for the circuit analysis and should give an accurate answer for small-signal analysis in the frequency domain.
For non-linear circuits, using .TRAN analysis in Spice (and its derivatives), the calculation proceeds in time by numerical integration, where the next step in time depends on the state of this step in time, to calculate the signals in the time domain.
I had problems with simple circuits combining RLC resonant circuits and diodes (in non-linear conditions), and a useful customer engineer at PSpice asked first if my circuit had "storage", referring to the LC resonances.
He pointed out that with a high-Q resonant circuit, the analysis parameters (see any guide to Spice) needed to be modified greatly from the default values, or the errors due to excessive time steps would propagate quickly to give absurd values.
If one has very high resonant frequencies in the component values, the time steps must be much, much shorter than the very short period of any resonant frequency.
 
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #118 on: May 15, 2025, 08:37:00 pm »
We did a circuit back in ~80 that I guess could be considered as an LRCC circuit. This circuit drove large CCD capacitances (C) for clocking with a high voltage and exchanged clocking energy between the CCD (C) and an energy storage capacitor (C) by utilizing an inductor (L) to exchange the energy efficiently. A NMOS switch (R) controlled the energy transfer, thus employing an L, R and two Cs, for an LRCC circuit.

However it did not Generate Power, capture Energy from the Ether, or other Zero Point Source, it simply reduced by over 95% the Power that would be required by a conventional clock driver by Transferring Energy back and forth.

So this LRCC was no "free lunch" but came with a "nice desert" ;)

Best

The crux of this pudding is "how much power did you give this circuit" (thank you; you've answered my question elsewhere; something like 7.5V to 15V from what I can gather) and "was this delivery of power continuous or sporadic or extremely temporary" since that can make all the difference.

Also, did you deploy any methods to synchronize all of the capacitors so that they wouldn't fall out of step with one another?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2025, 04:10:01 pm by Chet »
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Offline Zero999

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #119 on: May 15, 2025, 08:42:26 pm »
Reactive power is just returned to the power supply, leaving no net power dissipation.

Consider the following circuit: an ideal inductor connected to the mains.

The top trace is the voltage, the middle the current and the bottom, the power.

Note that: phase shift between the voltage and current and more importantly, the sign of the power draw changes from negative (power being taken from V1) to positive (power being returned to V1) at double the mains frequency. Because the area under the negative side of the power graph is equal to the positive side, the average power is zero.

This is of course a theoretical lossless circuit. In reality, there will be some power loss, so more power will be taken from V1 than is returned to it.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2025, 07:03:37 am by Zero999 »
 
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #120 on: May 15, 2025, 08:46:01 pm »
Quote
That goes for time. But that also applies to energy -- especially since energy (not power) is measured in terms of time.
So everything ive been taught about energy and power is arse backwards? When you raise the temperature of   a material   from x to y  it requires  a certain amount of energy,them joules don't care if you do it in 1 second or 100 years ,its only when you want to know  how much  power is required to do the job ,watts the definition of power? joules per second

Not a relevant analogy, yet true to what it describes.
I avoid contributing any input. So, nothing will have its temperature raised by my direct action. I leave that prognosis to the parasitically endowed controlled chaos which I foster to do the job for me while my contribution of an input of caloric energy is reduced to nil so that there will be no doubt as to whether or not it contributed to the outcome. Besides, it's the frequency of a miniscule caloric input that matters to me, not its amplitude for its amplitude of input could only get in the way of achieving a partially controlled state of chaos.
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #121 on: May 15, 2025, 09:00:19 pm »
Does redrawing your schematic help?

If you think so. I don't know since it's the same as before. Whatever works for you.

Yes, exactly the same as are the attached.   Do you feel that the AC source magically couples to your other circuit or are they independent as shown?

The reduced magnetic coupling between the aluminum coil and the two coils labeled, Fe1 and Fe2, creates a condition of mutual capacitance placing itself in the middle in between the two Fe coils, thus...

Fe1 <<< mutual capacitance <<< aluminum coil >>> mutual capacitance >>> Fe2

...bearing in mind that these coils are not necessarily made of the materials which I had labeled them as since that's purely speculative while Micro-Cap assumes that all of them will be copper enameled winding wire.

This is the "magic" that imparts a status of prismatic behavior among Fe1 and Fe2 which is realized within all of the other coils by causing all of the other coils, plus these two Fe coils, to become incapable of saturation. Saturation would have introduced damping and conformity to conservation.

The elevated self-inductances of Cu1 through Cu5, relative to Fe1 and Fe2, predominate in high voltage and low current.

The reduced self-inductances of Fe1 and Fe2, relative to Cu1 through Cu5, predominates in high current and low voltage.

The Cu and the Fe coils blend their distinct characters in the aluminum coil where the magic comes to fruition.
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #122 on: May 15, 2025, 09:03:36 pm »
As for this guy...   :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\ :=\

Sad...


Yes, it is... but that's just how I feel about this topic.

The person behind this has a life, and no doubt within it, loss or trauma, but are hiding from the reality of it from within this pointless delusion.

Perhaps a few paragraphs in the form of a Bio on the subject of "Chet" from the TS may help us understand his motivation for investment this subject?

X

No need to look elsewhere, for I will tell you.

I lost my son. We were to become the best of friends. He believed in me more than I believed in myself.

I had planned on homeschooling him. With that opportunity gone missing, I decided to homeschool myself and share what I've learned come what may.
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Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #123 on: May 15, 2025, 09:05:12 pm »
I'd like to take a short deposition from you, if you don't mind.
Remember that you're under oath here.

Question:  Do you believe that the circuit you've presented and described to us is capable of generating more energy than its input (the sine-wave oscillator in your example?

A yes or no answer will do.
 
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Offline ChetTopic starter

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Re: Can reactive power be recycled fast enough to power resistive loads?
« Reply #124 on: May 15, 2025, 09:07:08 pm »
>> help us understand his motivation for investment this subject

I assume normally to scam the public out of money.  They always seem to follow a pattern.  Word salad, save the world, religion, government suppression and of course mentioning Tesla.   

Nothing new.  Looking for Op's original twist to an age old story...

I grew up on sin money giving me much shame. I decided to give away whatever was shoved in my face. That's my programming. Hence, the extravagant need to give away stuff and money which I no longer have more than whatever is needed to cover bills, so I give away knowledge instead.

But I won't refuse offers of money provided they don't come with unacceptable conditions.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2025, 04:27:21 pm by Chet »
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