DCS (Deep Cycle Systems) Batteries

[MrMobodies]

Looks like they might have forgotten about this one which dates back has some articles from to 2021.
https://archive.ph/www.deepcyclesystems.com.au

Or maybe they just took out the stuff that they didn't want to be seen anymore.

The Trove archive doesn't seem to be flexible I can't seem to download the pages or present the pages fully as it seems to be in an Iframe.

Warranty, Shipping & Return Policies

2021
https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20210309133200/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/

2022
https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20220324200822/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/
https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20221028051546/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/

2023
https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20230309064156/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/shipping-return-policy/

[MrMobodies]

20:44 I have recently also become aware that DCS has descretely modified their warranty terms
without clearly marking the date of these changes. The only source for the DCS'S terms is their website as they don't provide the user manual or terms and conditions with their products although the DCS website indicates the latest update was on June 14, 2021, they had actually reduced their capacity warranty from 80% to 70% sometime between March and November 2023 without any notification on their site.
11:26 Thankfully tools like the Wayback Machine allow us to view past versions of websites by requests from several individuals including myself, DCS has neither privately nor publically disclosed the exact date their altered terms.

The internet archive has been scrubbed for before 2024

Absolutely disgusting.

Oh look I have evidence you altered the warranty according from an older copy of your website on archive.org
DCS: Lets demand archive.org remove it from history then continue to sue him.
We only want the court to see what we want them to see and everything else we don't want them to see well just say it is copyright and demand they dispose of it

Looks like I can't rely on Archive.org anymore to find out past facts.

I wonder how far will they go and whether they'd pursue this other person who tested their batteries and tore it down but he's from the states.

16:56 I don't know why anyone would buy these. This is just a run-of-the-mill Chinese battery all, these companies in America and Australia, they're just slapping stickers of course they have an engineering team and they go to China and they figure out what they need but it's all made in China it's still made in China they get the parts from China

He thinks it's not even their own battery so if that is the case and they talk about copyright.

https://webarchive.nla.gov.au/awa/20210309133431/https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/terms-conditions/
10 Mar 2021 www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/terms-conditions/

TERMS & CONDITIONS
WE MAY CHANGE THESE TERMS ANY TIME. BY USING THE SITE AFTER A CHANGE, YOU AGREE TO FOLLOW AND BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AS CHANGED. PLEASE READ THESE TERMS REGULARLY.

So they could do what they like.
Joke: You agree to follow and be bound to kiss our a*rse and be gagged.
I wonder if this was the case when he purchased his first battery in 2019 but they had it removed from Archive.org

SITE CONTENTS
You should *assume* everything you see, *hear, or otherwise receive from or on the Site (the Contents) is copyright  , trademark, trade dress or other intellectual property owned and/or licensed by DCS. The Contents include images, illustrations, designs, icons, photographs, trademarks, logos, text, software, sounds, music, the Site as a whole and any other materials at the Site. You may use or download the Contents solely for your personal, noncommercial purposes, provided you keep all copyright and other proprietary notices with them. No other type of use is permitted. Downloading or copying Content does not transfer any right, title or interest in any Content to you. The downloading or export of software or technical data from this Site to any jurisdiction in violation of Australian export laws is strictly prohibited.

*Trying to copyright word of mouth.

USER COMMENTS AND SUBMISSIONS
We welcome your comments regarding our Site, our products and our services.    However, any idea, suggestion, or other information you transmit to the Site is, and will be treated as, non-confidential and nonproprietary. * Any comment, **idea, suggestion, response or other material or information you or others transmit to us through this Site or otherwise shall become entirely DCS property.  This includes personal information about you and your use of the Site. Please review our Privacy Policy Statement for more information. You promise that no information or material you transmit to DCS, (www.deepcyclesystems.com.au) will violate anyone else’s right, including copyright, trademark, privacy or other rights. You may not transmit any information that is or contains threatening, libellous, defamatory, scandalous, inflammatory, pornographic, profane or otherwise unlawful, abusive or obscene material. You shall be solely responsible for the content of any Comments you make. DCS is not responsible or liable for the content of information that others post at or transmit to the Site, for any error, defamation, libel, slander, omission, falsehood, obscenity, pornography or profanity contained in any such information, or for the conduct of any Site user.

So in other words they "welcome" comments about their products and services but nobody can tell of them as the DCS proclaims it as their property and subject it to copyright and then come after you.

**Joke: Don't give them any ideas.


I just found this doing a reverse lookup of their BMS board:

https://www.ksenergy.co.uk/our-technology/

I wonder, is it an off the shelf part of did they copied their picture.
I see they registered the domain in 2019 according to whois.
https://whois.domaintools.com/ksenergy.co.uk

   2,014 days old
Created on 2019-03-02
Expires on 2025-03-02
Updated on 2024-02-24

They seemed to have update details on their domain.
https://whois.domaintools.com/deepcyclesystems.com.au

Updated on 2024-08-06

But WHERE is created and expired and I am pretty sure I usually see those?
Noticed the domain registrar is also Australian

Registrar Name: Melbourne IT

https://abr.business.gov.au/ABN/View/63611396591

Entity name:   DEEP CYCLE SYSTEMS PTY LTD
ABN status:   Active from 01 Jan 2017
Entity type:   Australian Private Company
Goods & Services Tax (GST):   Registered from 01 Jan 2017
Main business location:   
QLD 4272

Been in business since 2017

Just noticed:
https://odysee.com/@eevblog:7/eevblab-120-dcs-sues-youtuber-for:d
eevBLAB 120 - DCS sues Youtuber for Defamation

1:37 In the video, "A corporation is excluded if (b) it has fewer than 10 employee's * and is not an associated entity of another corporation, and the corporation is not a public body.

* What's this then I wonder:
On the reverse lookup of that battery management board I also notice an EU website of theirs with the same name and logo:


Same lack of information about the domain too for the EU website:

https://whois.domaintools.com/dcslithiumbatteries.eu

Registrar   Key-Systems GmbH
IANA ID: —
URL: —
Whois Server: —

Registrant:
        NOT DISCLOSED!
        Visit www.eurid.eu for the web-based WHOIS.

On-site(s):
        NOT DISCLOSED!
        Visit www.eurid.eu for the web-based WHOIS.

Registrar:
        Name: Key-Systems GmbH
        Website: www.key-systems.net

Earliest archive:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230315101117/https://dcslithiumbatteries.eu/

If that is true and they are associated or part of another company and there must be more than ten people working there looking at the contacts below on their EU website which does not seem to state a contact for Australia.
Just noticed 10 contacts on an EU website with the same and logo:
https://dcslithiumbatteries.eu/contact-us/

01 Belgium Fotografielaan 26 2610 Wilrijk, Antwerpen +32460208530
02 Austria Hackengasse 30/22 1150 Vienna Osterreich +436703081110
03 France 9 Chemin Du Preconil 83120 Sainte-maxime +33755532101
04 Germany Albrecht-Durer-StraBe 20 82152 Krailling +498920175989
05 Switzerland Letzigraben 211 8047 Zurich +41445206565
06 Netherlands Donkere Spaarne 42 2011 JH Haarlem +3197005033204
07 Spain C/d'elkano 45 08004 Barcelona +34930301730
08 UK 21 Hampshire Terrace Portsmouth PO1 2QB +447537150513
09 Ireland 12 Castle St Wicklow, A67 TX80 +35319635400
10 Italy Via Jan Palach 2 20090 Segrate, Milan

With all those locations and different languages involved how can there be less than 10 people working for them.

Also found this:
https://soundcloud.com/kaasib

kaasib, Zubair. Lahore, Pakistan
seasoned writer, programmer and traveller. Managing dcslithiumbatteries.eu/

He does this stuff in Sydney but he's in Pakistan which seems a little odd to me unless he travels there.


From a Google customized date search for dcslithiumbatteries.eu to find the earliest article I see a result from 14 Sept 2021.

[Haenk]

Just a bit of Google-foo:

Dr. Z... Z...
Albrecht Dürer Str. 20
82152 Krailling
[email protected]

The domain "z....de" is run by his son (?, but likely), offering engineering solutions, but maybe totally unrelated.

However I can't see any real business being done at the german address.

More fun:

I like the testing of batteries stacked on boxes of batteries. What could go wrong. The rightmost boxes even come with chinese stickers. (The source of the batteries is no surprise, I guess...)

Another bit: their EU site, claiming to run their business from Belgium, is in utter contrast to many EU legal requirements. I mean, pretty much all of them.
I might try the german address and ask directly for the involvement, plus a fair warning about running a business or at least acting as a business contact with likely non-compliance. I might do some more research tomorrow...

[JMK]

Apparently if the business has more than 10 employees, then they have no cause of action for defamation. Seems like DCS full under this threshold, so the suit has the potential to progress.

Stephan and his lawyers believe they do not fall under this catgeory, and the court will rule on this on Oct 14th. So it will either go ahead or the suit will be dismissed on that date.

The Queensland court threw out the Defamation claim on the "more than 10 employees technicality".  Who pays the bills is yet to be sorted.

[EEVblog]

[Halcyon]

Happy days! DCS can go bugger off. I hope eventually they are ordered to pay costs.

[graybeard]

DCS is complaining to the government of Australia that posts about it's lawsuit are cyberbullying.

[Halcyon]

A big problem for DCS is that regardless of the "terms and conditions" on their website and whether you "agree" with them or not, even if you signed a contract with those very terms on it, you can't sign away your rights under Australian Consumer Law. A lot of it sounds like it was written by someone who can string a sentence together using important sounding terms, but has no actual legal training or experience. Anyone can make up "terms" but it doesn't make them legally enforceable, even if the end-user agrees to them.

If DCS try any kind of legal action in the future, they might want to be very careful about lying in court, considering the eyes of the world are now upon them and increasingly, old copies of their website are emerging despite their efforts to have them removed from the internet. In a civil matter, the standard of proof "only" amounts to the "Balance of Probabilities", unlike in criminal cases.

I've actually given expert evidence recently in court and talked about what was, and was not, available on a particular website at any given time, how websites are crawled, etc... etc...

The absolute best thing DCS can do at this stage is to come out publicly and say "We were wrong and we're taking steps to improve our products and customer experience". If they can admit to themselves and the world that this whole matter was mishandled by them from the very start, the might be able to save face, otherwise the reputational damage (that DCS brought on themselves) will continue to snowball.

[EEVblog]

The absolute best thing DCS can do at this stage is to come out publicly and say "We were wrong and we're taking steps to improve our products and customer experience". If they can admit to themselves and the world that this whole matter was mishandled by them from the very start, the might be able to save face, otherwise the reputational damage (that DCS brought on themselves) will continue to snowball.

I'd bet money they will die on this hill.

[graybeard]

[graybeard]

Stephan Fischer is seeking help with funding for the continuing case against DCS.

[thm_w]

[Psi]

I really hope all the people who had issues with DCS have reported it to the local product safety regulators.  It's just a matter of time before someone is killed.

[racemaniac]

dang, i already knew DCS was bad, but if everything in this video is correct, it's even way worse than i already thought >_<.........

[MrMobodies]

5:25 absolute piece of garbage for the legal fees the judge has said that they have to pay is now really starting to [ __ ]
with the time that he has to spend with his daughter who has leukemi

I think I misread:
So now that DCS is refusing to pay, the judge is now going after the innocent victim and demanding they pay everything.

Is that right?

[thm_w]

I think I misread:
So now that DCS is refusing to pay, the judge is now going after the innocent victim and demanding they pay everything.

Is that right?

Stephan already owed the legal costs of defending himself (you have to hire lawyers, etc.), no judge is demanding anything from him. Now he has more costs coming due to DCS being unwilling to pay, so he must pay people to try to extract the money from them.

You can read the details on his gofundme: https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-fight-for-truth-in-youtube-reviews

Realistic costs to finish this:  ~$10,000 for the Federal Court application, barrister and solicitors in Brisbane

[MrMobodies]

So they dug a hole but not willing to lie in it themselves that he has to hire other people.

Absolutely sickening and I never thought I'd use the words "scum of the earth".

https://www.deepcyclesystems.com.au/dcs-statement-regarding-outcome-of-court-decision/

DCS is deeply disheartened

How do they think he feels when they threatened him and put him through all of that.

DCS Statement Regarding Outcome of Court Decision
Posted by DCS | March 17, 2025 | BATTERIES, DCS Batteries

Pursuant to DCS vs. Stefan Fischer (YouTube Channel: AllOffroad 4×4)

DCS is deeply disheartened  in the court’s decision to conclude that Deep Cycle Systems is an excluded corporation under Queensland Laws (Didn't they lie about this in court?). This was disappointing as we were therefore unable to commence action against Mr. Fischer for defamation.

We are well aware that Mr. Fischer had publicised a series of videos, but we did not wish to address these at the time whilst the matter was before the courts. (What is a court going to do to address defects in a battery)

But … there comes a point at which small businesses  (DCS employs 2 full-time employees) must take a stand against so-called “influencers,”  reviewers who seek to take down individuals and companies for likes and subscribers to direct attention to their own sites (or businesses) for personal and financial gain – particularly when the intention behind these is based on malice and their own sense of entitlement. 

Mr. Fischer’s YouTube videos:

    “DCS Lithium LiFePo4 Under Bonnet Update: I went back to Lead Acid (under bonnet) 2023” (Published: 16th August 2023)
    “DCS LiFePo4 Lithium Under Bonnet: Explosion, Failures and Why You Need to Capacity Test” (Published: 3rd December 2023)

were made under a false narrative  , in an act of grievance against DCS after we declined his requests to provide further FREE products and wished to end our professional relationship with Mr. Fischer.

Up until this point, Mr. Fischer had never expressed any issues with DCS products and had been happily using DCS batteries in his personal vehicles for 4 years without any contractual arrangements. 4 years with not one complaint about the performance, concerns over safety issues, or longevity issues. No issues. Not once. Not until his requests were denied on 1st August 2023.

Seeking legal action against Mr. Fischer was not a decision that was taken lightly by DCS. All attempts were made by DCS to prevent this level of escalation, but Mr. Fischer declined all of these.

This is, and never was, a lawsuit intended to prevent people from expressing their honest reviews and feedback to individuals or companies.

We admit that we should have been aware that this would be a concern for not only our customers but anyone who uses and reviews products, and it is right to be concerned. We are sorry that this is the way this came across, and we will be clearer in our intentions moving forward and we will learn from this situation.

DCS would like to thank the numerous individuals  (Which ones are those I wonder?) that have taken the time to call, email, and message us with their support. It has meant the world to Paul (DCS Founder), his employees, and their families.

It was upsetting to hear from others that have had their businesses and livelihoods destroyed under similar circumstances. These were small family run businesses – Australian families trying to have a go against large international corporations, only to be taken down by keyboard warriors with too much time on their hands and the ability to hide behind a keyboard with no accountability.

At DCS, we are proud to have developed the products we have to date. As we look to the future, DCS remains committed to continuing to invest in the newest technology in this space and remaining an industry leader in lithium batteries.

To all our customers, we thank you for your ongoing support. Our team is always here to support sue each and every one of you.

Deep Cycle Systems Pty Ltd – The Lithium Battery Experts

Didn't they keep on changing the terms and conditions about the warranty and kept on removing archive copies of it from archive.org.

Louis Rossman pointed this out about their logo:

I wonder if DCS Corp is aware that their logo is being used by Deep Cycle Systems.

The close resemblance could make it look like they are connected or part of the same company.

Google Review:

Tecio N Local Guide·93 reviews·173 photos a year ago
Been looking to buy a new d/c battery. After some research I came across dcs. They have very low reviews, I looked further into to find out why, and when I found out they have a lawsuit against a little man that tested their batteries and found out they are bad batteries. I don’t trust or want to do business with a company like this that go after the little man. Great way to share to the world your dirty secret hidden in your closet and how you would treat potential clients. They caused more damaged to themselves than the YouTuber they are sueing. I hope they don’t sue me for choosing to buy a different battery brand based on their low google and product review scores

Deep Cycle Systems (owner) a year ago
* #fake

**d/c battery!? Hahah 😂

* So the owner at DCS is saying that the whole thing is fake when they actually took it to court. 

** With they way are responding it sounds me like like they are dealing with a monster.

[Psi]

The absolute best thing DCS can do at this stage is to come out publicly and say "We were wrong and we're taking steps to improve our products and customer experience".

There's about as much hope of that happening as there is Putin holding a press conference and saying "I was wrong to invade Ukraine and I'm pulling my troops out now"
Could happen, but c'mon it's never going to.
It's just a specific personality type. I think it stems from the core statement "If I do it, then by definition it can't be wrong"

Even if the head of DCS ends up convicted of something and in jail he will still be singing the tune of how there was a miscarriage of justice and how he is innocent. And he will actually believe that.

[Haenk]

It's just a specific personality type.

Even worse, this type of character is willing to put everything on risk just to prove "I am right!" and eventually runs amok, just to prove a point. (Let's hope this does not happen...)
From a business point of view, he intentionally missed every possibility to de-escalate the situation. This is about as stupid as it gets, as everyone dealing with customers certainly knows.

[Kean]

Yeah, based on that statement the only thing DCS are sorry about is that this has made them look bad. 

[MrMobodies]

Yeah, based on that statement the only thing DCS are sorry about is that this has made them look bad. 

DCS is deeply disheartened in the court’s decision to conclude that Deep Cycle Systems is an excluded corporation under Queensland Laws This was disappointing as we were therefore unable to commence action against Mr. Fischer for defamation.

and that the court didn't see their point of view in shape shifting their outlook to be an included corporation.

[thm_w]

Update — We're Nearly There

Quick update for everyone who has supported this fight.

Paul Tomolowicz has paid the original costs order. That's progress. However, additional legal costs incurred since — including costs related to the winding-up application — remain unpaid.

Rather than resolving the outstanding amount, Paul's response to my lawyer included personal threats directed at me. My lawyer has responded firmly — Paul has been told not to approach me or enter my property, and that any further communication must be made in writing through my lawyer.

The position is straightforward: either Paul pays the outstanding costs voluntarily and we seek to discontinue the winding-up application, or we proceed with the application — which will include a further costs order, and the whole process starts again at his expense.

The choice is his.

We are very close to the end of this. I'll update you once we have a resolution.

Thank you again for your support — it's what got us here.

[graybeard]

DCS finally paid Paul

[Siwastaja]

Companies like DCS are interesting. They have solved many really hard parts of the business.

It's not like they are just some scam selling sand-filled boxes or something. They have an actual product. They can manufacture it. They can sell it. It has some of their own design in it. This is all far from trivial to pull off - even if it's just outsourced Chinesium.

They have honest customer feedback. They have resources and perseverance, as proven by the ability of continuous legal (and illegal, given the personal threats ) attack. That's a total recipe for success. All they have to do is keep improving the product - fix the flaws, nothing is really unfixable there. Thermal / safety problems in their connector designs is not even that hard to fix. Just look at what others have done. Probably the hardest part is reassess the sourcing of the cells, if their problem is, as the owner says, "russian roulette" with quality variations. But they already have experience talking with cell suppliers and measuring the cells, so they are in way better position than e.g. a fresh startup starting from scratch.

Their business case of selling an integrated high-tech LFP + BMS pack for lead-acid replacement is spot-on; it's needed, it has customer base, it's not some Batterizer/Solar roadway case.

And it can be done. Even the DCS design has many details right. It's not like they have to scratch every idea and start over.

But clearly it's a personality disorder. But it makes me wonder, if the owners are nutjob enough to sink their ship like this, how were they able to come this far? How were they able to design, manufacture and sell anything? This makes it interesting, there are not many cases like this. Usually this sort of people fail much earlier, being unable to deliver anything.

One possible explanation is, maybe the owner is just tired, depressed, burn out. Projects come and go, that's normal. The biggest risk with small companies is exactly the owners getting tired of that project, and wanting to take a break (which you can't afford for more than a few days) or switch to a new project. Running the ship aground is one way to self-destruct the business and get your personal freedom back, in a desperate attempt of keeping one's face - of course it turns out the opposite.

[Psi]

Companies like DCS are interesting. They have solved many really hard parts of the business.

Yeah, I've seen companies that are successful despite having someone in a position of power like the CEO/director/head-of-sales  who keeps causing friction that is constantly or regularly working against the success of the company. Often without even realizing they are doing it.
It's a really odd thing to see but it's way more common that you'd think.

Granted my knowledge of DCS is very limited and mostly just what people have said about them, but it did seem like their only real issue was buying/using really cheap low quality cells that don't meet their lifespan/capacity specs.  Which should be a solvable issue.

We don't know if this was a dodgy supplier of batteries to DCS who provided good cells for testing and switched to dodgy cells for DCS mass production. Or if DCS knowingly purchased lower quality cells to try and increase profits to fund expansion plans and they pushed things too far.