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Debunking Musk - TED talk 2022.

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wraper:

--- Quote from: pcprogrammer on August 07, 2022, 11:58:35 am ---That is the total sum of it all. But we are spoon fed that CO2 is the root of all our problems and we need to move away from fossil fuels to become CO2 neutral.

--- End quote ---
Humanity creates a large part of total CO2, and is the root cause. As minimum a very large part of it. The problem should be dealt both ways, reducing emissions and removing it from atmosphere.

--- Quote ---Zero emission is also used in a lot of publications, and I feel that we are being misled, because we also emit CO2 ourselves.
--- End quote ---
"Zero emission" is applied to particular things, not humanity as a whole. Of course there will be no zero emission at all but net zero emission is possible (removing as much as was emitted).

Psi:
If I was a mod I'd probably just lock this thread. Looks to me like a mix of FUD and ramblings.
Probably part of a smear campaign by some industry that stands to lose money from electric cars.
Don't get me wrong, Musk is by no means perfect, but on balance he is doing a lot of good.

The move to electric cars is a positive one. It doesn't matter if sometimes they are recharged using coal power plants, that won't always be the case. It's the move to electric and away from fossil fuels that is important.

Tesla and SpaceX are also good examples to show how much more progress happens when companies are run by the engineers and not by managers or people with business degrees.

pcprogrammer:

--- Quote from: Psi on August 07, 2022, 12:27:34 pm ---The move to electric cars is a positive one. It doesn't matter if sometimes they are recharged using coal power plants, that won't always be the case. It's the move to electric and away from fossil fuels that is important.

--- End quote ---

Be that as it may, it is not the solution to a far bigger problem. For electric cars we still need to plunder mother earth. Lithium is the next fossil fuel, and if not lithium it will be cobalt, etc. None of this stuff is in endless supply. And it is not just CO2 that poisons our atmosphere. Think of al the other shit that is released during production of all the goods we consume.

Until scientists find a way to make all the needed elements from thin air, without any form of pollution, we will run into the same kind of problems over and over again.

SiliconWizard:
We devise a lot of fancy models, none of which are remotely accurate. Climate is a VERY very complex matter.

The main issue is that we know (by observation) how things tend to "naturally" balance themselves, but we have no fricking clue how to reproduce this balancing technically, even though many claim otherwise. Heck, we don't even really know what a proper balance means. Things have gone really bad climate-wise in the past. The Earth is still there and life on it is still abundant. Does that count for things getting balanced over time in a "natural" way? And at what point do we consider things are OK and not OK? Who gets to decide? (Hint: for instance, just because some temporary climate situation does not please us humans does not mean that it is "bad".) By unilaterally determining the rules of what is right and what isn't, we are not doing any better than when we release huge amounts of pollutants. It's just two faces of the same coin. Just my humble 2 cents though, probably not a popular idea.

Depleting "non-renewable" resources (by that we usually mean, resources that don't get renewed in a time scale compatible with our own human time scale) is one thing, pollution is yet another. We could have found ways of using only renewable resources while stilling emitting a lot of CO2 and otherwise pollutants.

In other words, I'm not denying we have been abusive with our environment. We sure have. But I unfortunately think that we are mostly clueless as to how to make things better (short of stopping everything right now, which we can't), and that most of the solutions we come up with are every bit as bad as what led us to this situation in the first place. The same causes, the same consequences.

dietert1:
The facts were known for at least 30 or 40 years and there are enough well written documents available online for anybody to know what is going on. The idea that we don't know what is going on is fantasy. Musk is one of those dreamers. No serious person will ever claim that humans will be able to put the carbon back to where it was 200 years ago. Electrical cars don't put the carbon back to where it was.

The average carbon dioxide footprint in western countries is roughly 2 or 3 times as high compared to e.g. India. That means the western model is destructive and needs to change, while many others don't have to change.

Regards, Dieter
 

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