Author Topic: digital electricity  (Read 29123 times)

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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2018, 03:54:51 pm »
Thanks for posting a screenshot. Why on earth would you do that? Nudge, nudge. ;)
 

Online Brumby

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2018, 03:56:04 pm »
Thanks for posting a screenshot. Why on earth would you do that? Nudge, nudge. ;)
A picture is worth a thousand words.   ;D



Time for me to call it a night ... but I have been entertained.
 

Offline madires

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2018, 04:11:42 pm »
With Real-Time computing, we perform Real-Time chemistry modeling so that we can manage batteries knowing their TRUE capacity.

Nice red herring, but chemistry modeling isn't any different from measuring several values and concluding the battery status based on them (it's just another model).
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2018, 04:17:06 pm »
I am not a fun of digital AC means electricity.  like having Enron Corporation in your AC means .   :--  electricity costs set by stock prices
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline madires

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2018, 04:18:48 pm »
We are cleaning up the power at the panel level which distributes perfect power to all the loads. This is done through the Flash Energy Storage System.  |O

You said that 3DFS are selling technology. All I see are buzz words and a very low S/N.
 

Offline madires

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #105 on: June 09, 2018, 04:30:23 pm »
We can see that a dendrite is starting to grow and stop the charging a microsecond later.

In case you have not figured this out Real-Time is critical whenever sensors are involved. Otherwise you are just guessing.

But you're still measuring several values to feed the chemistry model, aren't you?
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #106 on: June 09, 2018, 08:47:24 pm »
Going is average on tw.
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #107 on: June 09, 2018, 09:11:19 pm »
We can see that a dendrite is starting to grow and stop the charging a microsecond later.

In case you have not figured this out Real-Time is critical whenever sensors are involved. Otherwise you are just guessing.

But you're still measuring several values to feed the chemistry model, aren't you?


How is this marvel of analytical electrochemistry accomplished exactly? I think you could revolutionize the entire discipline if you can do this on a single sub-microsecond sample. :bullshit:

Yes several values of course? Not sure the question.
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #108 on: June 09, 2018, 09:19:06 pm »
This is an interesting thread. I see several things going on here:

1. A lot of skepticism

2. A bunch of people who want to give Chris Doerfler the benefit of the doubt, and have proposed various things the device could do that are useful (power quality improvement, PFC) but none that quite measure up to the story that Chris is making (about the large losses from microsecond-level pulses)

3. A founder of 3DFS (Chris Doerfler) who is actively participating in a thread on the EEVblog, but is unwilling or unable to describe his product in terms meaningful to electrical engineers.

#3 is interesting by itself, because I suspect Doerfler believes that this forum is important. Why else would he waste his time? It's also interesting, because he has not dispatched someone skilled in the art of engineering or in the art of marketing wankery to deal with us.

Personally, I have more than enough information at this point to call this a scam, or at the very best, a product that does some useful things, but nothing nearly as exceptional as implied by the hype. I don't know much about David Roberts (@drvox), but I think he will soon realize that his breathless article was one of the bigger missteps of his journalism career -- if he has not already.

For those not in LinkedIn, here is some info on Doerfler that might provide context. I'm not suggesting that a lack of background in EE is necessarily disqualifying for inventing a new technology that will change power transmission forever, but it might justify an eyebrow raise.



« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 09:22:52 pm by djacobow »
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #109 on: June 09, 2018, 09:37:59 pm »

You are still missing the point of what our technology does. When I say that it corrects power factor, harmonics, etc. at the panel for all loads with and injection or extraction of current at the microsecond level, that is a fact. It is how our technology accomplishes everything that I am telling you.


Yes, you keep saying that and you have shown absolutely nothing. Do you understand the difference?
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #110 on: June 09, 2018, 09:39:09 pm »
Utter bollocks.

You haven't answered a single 'How?'

You sure as hell haven't answer my repeated question: what is the patentable invention behind your product? How does the invention work? It must say in the patent description but is suitably obfuscated. What is the patented apparatus and what is the patented method? Don't say your product. Your product isn't the patented article. How, in technical detail - not fluffy words that describe what it enables - does the damn thing do what your competitor products cannot? Jeez - it's a simple bloody question.


"How does this car work?" "It uses fuel and moves." "Oh, that's genius. Have a patent."
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 09:41:24 pm by JohnnyMalaria »
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #111 on: June 09, 2018, 09:57:07 pm »
You just don't get it, do you?

HOW?

 

Offline djacobow

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #112 on: June 09, 2018, 10:12:09 pm »
Quote from: cdoerfler

The power network needs some inductance, it supplies it, capacitance, it supplies it.

Ok, this is progress!

The thing is, capacitors and inductors also provide capacitance and inductance -- and cheaply!

But they are fixed. So, if the load is changing, there is some advantage to being able to change the inductance and capacitance of some parallel circuit.

Believe it or not, people here get that.

What we (or I) am discounting is the benefit of microseconds response. Imagine for a moment different inductor/capacitor networks I could update once a year, once a week, once a day, once an hour, once a minute, once a second, once a cycle, 100x/ cycle.

With each successively more adaptable system you can arguably pick up more efficiency. Now, how MUCH additional residual efficiency does each step of flexibility pick up?

You are suggesting that subcycle adaptability is Very Important, and I and others are saying: bullshit, show us.

And you have shown NOTHING.
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #113 on: June 09, 2018, 10:28:10 pm »
Quote from: cdoerfler

The power network needs some inductance, it supplies it, capacitance, it supplies it.

Ok, this is progress!

The thing is, capacitors and inductors also provide capacitance and inductance -- and cheaply!

But they are fixed. So, if the load is changing, there is some advantage to being able to change the inductance and capacitance of some parallel circuit.

Believe it or not, people here get that.

What we (or I) am discounting is the benefit of microseconds response. Imagine for a moment different inductor/capacitor networks I could update once a year, once a week, once a day, once an hour, once a minute, once a second, once a cycle, 100x/ cycle.

With each successively more adaptable system you can arguably pick up more efficiency. Now, how MUCH additional residual efficiency does each step of flexibility pick up?

You are suggesting that subcycle adaptability is Very Important, and I and others are saying: bullshit, show us.

And you have shown NOTHING.

Okay, outside of the dynamic mitigation of harmonics for an entire power network, microsecond maintenance of unity power factor for an entire power network, and automatic phase balancing for an entire power network all simultaneously in an easy to read engineering user interface showing the momentary alterations and the historical tracked power quality over 600 seconds compiled into a half dozen videos on vimeo, one that even walks you through the whole thing in a painfully monotonous tone, I sincerely do not know what else I could show you.

You could show, quantitatively, what this buys you. Your could show, quantitatively, how much energy is lost in some example scenarios without your equipment, and then how much is gained back with a "dumb" network, or a pfc network that adjusts slowly, and then how much more is gained back by your system. It would also be interesting to show where in the system those losses occur and how much they are mitigated by your equipment.

I'd also like to see some data about available losses in common scenarios. Everyone here gets that a building with a 0.5pf aggregate load is a problem. But what are typical aggregate load power factors in homes, offices, data centers, etc?
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #114 on: June 09, 2018, 11:21:56 pm »
You just don't get it, do you?

HOW?



 :wtf: Injecting and extracting microamps every microsecond.  :wtf:

The power network needs some inductance, it supplies it, capacitance, it supplies it.

That, in itself, is not patentable, is it? Isn't it obvious to do that?

If so, it seems like your patent claim is around the timescale that you do it. That, in itself, is not patentable. There must be a specific electronic means by which you do it? How?

Could someone build a similar device that operates at tens of uA/us or hundreds or mA/ms etc and not infringe your patent?

Is it the specific electronics that is the invention and it enables fast operation? i.e., fast operation isn't the invention. If it is the electronics then what is the non-obvious aspect?

A patent would typically say something like (don't take this as technically accurate):

Prior power supply conditioning devices uses a combination of capacitance and inductance to change the current. Such devices change the current on a timescale of seconds. This is results in inefficient whatever. There is an unmet industrial need to increase the efficiency of the power supply conditioning process. This invention allows the current to be changed on a timescale of microseconds. One advantage is that the amount of current required to be injected is much lower than for prior devices. The invention consists of a novel whatever circuit that performs some novel thing.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 11:30:37 pm by JohnnyMalaria »
 
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #115 on: June 09, 2018, 11:31:12 pm »
I modified my comment.
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #116 on: June 09, 2018, 11:33:05 pm »
Forget it, Jake. It's Scammertown.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2018, 12:03:43 am »
The few superficial terms we've heard aren't very helpful. It's like the sales assistant of a car dealership telling us that the car has a steering wheel, four wheels and a motor.
More like “feel how soft the seats are”
And “just think how your friends will envy you!”
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #118 on: June 10, 2018, 12:23:04 am »
From the Popular Mechanics article:
Quote
This required 3DFS to invent software that can sample 295 million data points per second—50,000 times faster than any measuring technology currently used.
So... nobody else measures stuff sampled faster than 5900 samples per second? Let’s not mention CD a/d conversion at 44100 way back in 1980.

Right.

Edit -> sorry, that’s numbers and measurements. Doesn’t have a place in this discussion.  :palm:
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 12:25:18 am by Circlotron »
 
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Online Brumby

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #119 on: June 10, 2018, 02:05:40 am »
I notice the post of which I took this partial screenshot has been removed.  No apology; no explanation.
... but I found this absolutely priceless....



Curious how I was inspired to do that (as was another member).  My inspiration came from experience.  All too often we have people who get embarrassed by something they posted and remove it, which leaves subsequent references flapping in the breeze.  Quoting and/or screenshots preserves such material as it is outside the control of those who felt embarrassed ... and that just highlights their insecurity.

It is not a good reflection on the confidence in the technology being touted.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #120 on: June 10, 2018, 02:41:19 am »
Those who leave embarrassing posts and admit it are more trustworthy. Once you get a reply it's to late (or at least put an edit note).

I've had some half asleep incomplete non-english sentences answered as legit questions and came back and was like "what worse, what I posted or that you attempted to answer it?" ???

That video could have also been removed by the host (although they likely don't care) or perhaps someone else with access trying to hide it as well. :horse:
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #121 on: June 10, 2018, 02:58:56 am »
I'm surprised he didn't have the nous (Brit. Eng.) to check what he had just posted. Well, may be I'm not.

I always check my post immediately especially if I have linked to pictures/videos and/or attached images. I sometimes have to rotate them on my PC and reattach. Probably something to do with the way my 2012 Windows Phone tags them :)
 

Offline Delta

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #122 on: June 10, 2018, 07:00:16 am »
"Automatic phase balancing".

Now this does sound very promising, and is something that my employer would be prepared to pay for.

Can you give more information on this please? How do you achieve phase balancing purely from the supply side, without controlling the demands of each load?
 

Offline madires

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #123 on: June 10, 2018, 10:03:06 am »
Maybe I got it wrong but what I've learned from this thread is that 3DFS is selling a buzzword box without any proper datasheet. Seems to be a more sophisticated version of the Batterizer.
 

Offline ArthurDent

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #124 on: June 10, 2018, 04:22:02 pm »
I was so impressed by the evidence presented here and in the videos by 3DFS that I went to their website (shown below) and ordered one of each of their products to install. Their products have worked so well that I'm saving so much and have increased my efficiency so much that I'm now selling the power company's power back to them and making a profit!

https://www.3dfs.com/products-tmp
 


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