Author Topic: digital electricity  (Read 22782 times)

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Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2018, 11:34:34 pm »
Cut the strident hype marketing, publish a proper spec sheet (How much current can the thing inject or absorb to control PF and harmonics and what are the losses) and you might actually have a product that is useful in some applications, but no engineer is going to wade thru the bullshit videos and puff pieces to decide if the actual underlying box does what they need.

As I say, a box that can kill the triplen on a 400V three phase supply to reduce the pile up in the neural by 300A or so that was cheaper, lighter and easier to move then a 300kVA K rated delta-star transformer, yea, I could maybe see a use for that, but I need numbers dammit, and I need to know where the warts are.

Stuff written by the marketing/investor relations fluffer is an active turn off when there are other players with similar kit doing similar things who don't feel the need for the services of a fluffer to make their kit look impressive.

73 Dan.

You needn't know that anymore. The amount of current injected or extracted is only microamps at any given microsecond, unless absorbing a lightning surge, and it absorbs the whole thing. That is the only absorption, the rest is microcorrections that are temporarily stored. The energy comes from the grid because we are in parallel. It is like a load. It is a dipole in Kirchoff's Law if you are familiar.

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Online chris_leyson

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2018, 11:51:41 pm »
Quote
no engineer is going to wade thru the bullshit videos and puff pieces to decide if the actual underlying box does what they need.
I read the bullshit patent with all the prior art smokescreen fluff that doesn't say anything. So what's the deal, apply power factor correction at harmonics as well as the fundamental ? Fare enough that's not a trivial task but well done anyway. I didn't see any mention of providing a broadband conjugate match to the load however, harmonics included. So nothing new here really.
 

Online chris_leyson

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2018, 12:05:57 am »
Quote
It is like a load. It is a dipole in Kirchoff's Law if you are familiar.
No effort made whatsoever to explain the engineering principles behind the idea just snakeoil marketing. No peer reviewed papers published, it's just a croc of shit.
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2018, 12:32:49 am »
You needn't know that anymore. The amount of current injected or extracted is only microamps at any given microsecond,

That's it for me! [Redacted]
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 01:24:41 am by StillTrying »
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #79 on: June 09, 2018, 12:51:55 am »
 :=\

Still waiting...what's the non-obvious, inventive step?

 :-//
Tell me it can't be done and I'll do it. Or give it a damned good try.
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #80 on: June 09, 2018, 01:56:36 am »
:=\

Still waiting...what's the non-obvious, inventive step?

 :-//

Execution? Computing? Efficiency?
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #81 on: June 09, 2018, 02:21:05 am »
Why are you asking me?

The non-obvious part should be in your patent, right? So, why won't you give a simple explanation of what exactly that is - it's not as if it is proprietary information. Patents are notoriously hard to read if you aren't used to them. I am but I'm not familiar with the art. I'd like to know what is novel and patentable about your technology.

Simple, to-the-point answers to the questions raised would be helpful.
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Online chris_leyson

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #82 on: June 09, 2018, 02:40:19 am »
Talking of "microamps in microseconds" bullshit and getting back to real world engineering, the so called One-Watt Initiative is going to change from 500mW(2013) to 300mW standby power in 2020. I can't remember off hand which household appliances are being targeted but probably not 40" TVs, well not yet anyway. 300mW in standby, sounds easy but try doing that in practice.
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2018, 02:54:06 am »

The amount of current injected or extracted is only microamps at any given microsecond,
And just how is “only microamps” expected to correct a line carrying several tens of amps?
What’s more, if you are injecting or extracting “ only microamps” at any given moment, why does the box need fan cooling?
 
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Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #84 on: June 09, 2018, 03:05:19 am »
Well, one uA per uS is one A/s which means 10s for 10A. Not exactly fast...
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Offline Brumby

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #85 on: June 09, 2018, 03:29:18 am »
Cut the strident hype marketing, publish a proper spec sheet (How much current can the thing inject or absorb to control PF and harmonics and what are the losses) and you might actually have a product that is useful in some applications, but no engineer is going to wade thru the bullshit videos and puff pieces to decide if the actual underlying box does what they need.

As I say, a box that can kill the triplen on a 400V three phase supply to reduce the pile up in the neural by 300A or so that was cheaper, lighter and easier to move then a 300kVA K rated delta-star transformer, yea, I could maybe see a use for that, but I need numbers dammit, and I need to know where the warts are.

Stuff written by the marketing/investor relations fluffer is an active turn off when there are other players with similar kit doing similar things who don't feel the need for the services of a fluffer to make their kit look impressive.

73 Dan.

You needn't know that anymore.

So - you aren't going to provide engineering detail which will demonstrate why engineers "needn't know that anymore".  You just say (in effect): Here it is, it works.  Trust me.  Sounds like a used car salesman.

If you think such details are beyond the capabilities of some of the membership here to comprehend, then you are so far up yourselves it is not funny.  Then again, maybe you do expect some members to be all over it and that's why you won't.

If you can't put your marketing hat to one side and start putting out some solid engineering specifications, then there can be little doubt in my mind this product doesn't have the performance to match up with the hype being touted.  You can call me names about that - but that won't change the fact that you aren't prepared to answer with hard data.

Personally, I'm prepared to consider the possibility that this invention does a job - but I'm a long way away from believing it's a job worth doing.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 03:31:30 am by Brumby »
 
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Offline StillTrying

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #86 on: June 09, 2018, 03:34:29 am »
I far as I'm concerned it's a $100,000 blue box that doesn't actually do anything useful, I'd be surprised it it even conditions its own supply. :horse:
CML+  That took much longer than I thought it would.
 

Offline JohnnyMalaria

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2018, 03:39:17 am »
:=\

Still waiting...what's the non-obvious, inventive step?

 :-//

Execution? Computing? Efficiency?


"Efficiency" is non-obvious and inventive?????


No, efficiency is something that your invention has to demonstrably improve (unmet industrial need).

HOW does your invention improve efficiency?

WHAT is the non-obvious feature of your "computing"?

Tell me it can't be done and I'll do it. Or give it a damned good try.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2018, 05:00:14 am »
Looking at the provided installed unit, I see it being connected via some small cables to the distribution unit. As the incoming feeders are 10mm at least, so rated for 100A or so, and the blue box is only connected by what looks like 2.5mm cables at best, i would hazard to say it can only correct for a current of around 20A at most, otherwise the wires would burn out pretty fast.

Hard things needed are maximum harmonic current ( can be true RMS or even just equivalent current, does not matter so long as the measurement method is given, you can work the maths to get a better idea given the details, but a Fourier transform would be a lot better as well) the unit can inject or remove per cycle, and the maximum instantaneous ( either over a single mains cycle or even per sampling period if period is defined) current it can handle.

Now, as to overvoltage spec, the typical lightning pulse is given an IEC spec, which is where you see that 8uS pulse rise time on EMC testing, given that lightning typically hits high voltage ( 132kV or higher) power lines, and is attenuated by both line impedance and by a lot of lightning arrestors. Those are arc gaps on each HV pylon ( those little horns across each insulator  hanging the line), the massive VDR stacks at each distribution point ( looks like a very fat insulator and contains thousands of varistor capsules stacked on each other), the distribution transformers themselves ( makes a low pass filter to broaden the leading edge and attenuate the pulse and spread the energy in time for the VDR stacks to react), and then further arc gaps ( smaller gap so lower breakdown voltage), more VDR stacks ( also smaller, as they only have to withstand 66kV, 33kV or 11kV operating voltage) and also line reactors to filter harmonics and of course the smaller transformers at point of use points. Still, with all that, you will get kV pulses on your incoming mains, and just how high a voltage can this clamp, given that high voltage power devices trade off power handling for speed, reliability and rate of rise, and miller capacitance is going to give you a bad day every time you exceed bonding wire limitations.

Now, if you can give a box that handles 100A, even single phase, can handle harmonic currents up to 10kHz, and can be connected via a 100A breaker and not fail when you put on a 50A vibratory feeder ( the thing most hated for power factor correction, as it uses a half wave power SCR to drive a massive electromagnet, giving you every harmonic but the fundamental mains frequency and spikes as well with the phase angle control deciding where on each pulse to turn on said hockey puck SCR with 20A of gate current to turn it on hard and fast) on the power line, along with handling the power factor correction for the 22kW motors driving the conveyors on the line, and you will sell these like hot cakes.
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2018, 10:19:36 am »

The amount of current injected or extracted is only microamps at any given microsecond,
And just how is “only microamps” expected to correct a line carrying several tens of amps?
What’s more, if you are injecting or extracting “ only microamps” at any given moment, why does the box need fan cooling?

You need to think differently. Smaller and faster.

When you are correcting electricity in Real-Time, you do not need a lot of power. That is the point.

It is like a pendulum
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Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2018, 10:25:02 am »
Cut the strident hype marketing, publish a proper spec sheet (How much current can the thing inject or absorb to control PF and harmonics and what are the losses) and you might actually have a product that is useful in some applications, but no engineer is going to wade thru the bullshit videos and puff pieces to decide if the actual underlying box does what they need.

As I say, a box that can kill the triplen on a 400V three phase supply to reduce the pile up in the neural by 300A or so that was cheaper, lighter and easier to move then a 300kVA K rated delta-star transformer, yea, I could maybe see a use for that, but I need numbers dammit, and I need to know where the warts are.

Stuff written by the marketing/investor relations fluffer is an active turn off when there are other players with similar kit doing similar things who don't feel the need for the services of a fluffer to make their kit look impressive.

73 Dan.

You needn't know that anymore.

So - you aren't going to provide engineering detail which will demonstrate why engineers "needn't know that anymore".  You just say (in effect): Here it is, it works.  Trust me.  Sounds like a used car salesman.

If you think such details are beyond the capabilities of some of the membership here to comprehend, then you are so far up yourselves it is not funny.  Then again, maybe you do expect some members to be all over it and that's why you won't.

If you can't put your marketing hat to one side and start putting out some solid engineering specifications, then there can be little doubt in my mind this product doesn't have the performance to match up with the hype being touted.  You can call me names about that - but that won't change the fact that you aren't prepared to answer with hard data.

Personally, I'm prepared to consider the possibility that this invention does a job - but I'm a long way away from believing it's a job worth doing.

The point of our technology is to automate power networks, which are only machines requesting electricity from other machines.

How do we do what we do. Lots of fucking math. What else do you want? I have told you what the FESS does, explained Real-Time Computing...  That is it.

I get that nobody is familiar with this and my engineering language is mediocre, but that does not change what the technology does.

You all should focus more on the results. That is the transformative part. That is the part that is going to affect you all.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 10:59:14 am by cdoerfler »
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Offline madires

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2018, 11:16:46 am »
Sorry, but we're engineers who love numbers, facts, proper datasheets and lot's of wonderful math. We don't buy anything "magic".
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2018, 11:22:58 am »
How do we do what we do. Lots of fucking math. What else do you want? I have told you what the FESS does, explained Real-Time Computing...  That is it.

I get that nobody is familiar with this and my engineering language is mediocre, but that does not change what the technology does.

You all should focus more on the results. That is the transformative part. That is the part that is going to affect you all.

Are you saying you are just the marketing dude ?

Get the real company's engineer to speak here, cause all you did is just ruining your company.

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2018, 11:37:36 am »
How do we do what we do. Lots of fucking math. What else do you want? I have told you what the FESS does, explained Real-Time Computing...  That is it.

I get that nobody is familiar with this and my engineering language is mediocre, but that does not change what the technology does.

You all should focus more on the results. That is the transformative part. That is the part that is going to affect you all.

Are you saying you are just the marketing dude ?

Get the real company's engineer to speak here, cause all you did is just ruining your company.

No, I am saying that this is too advanced for everybody here, otherwise they would have invented it.

I am introducing you all to the concept and have no problem entertaining serious questions, so ask some.
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Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #94 on: June 09, 2018, 11:43:58 am »
Sorry, but we're engineers who love numbers, facts, proper datasheets and lot's of wonderful math. We don't buy anything "magic".

Right, so what is the math behind all the losses that you experience in power networks? Can you explain that?

Modern day power networks are a joke. Cascading failures, brown outs, insane voltage deviation, etc. These are all symptoms of an uncontrolled power network, plain and simple.

Talk to me about the math behind Australia purchasing that largest battery on earth. Good job guys. We all know what happens to batteries over time and how they affect the power network and now we can look forward to that unfolding in real time at an unprecedented grid scale.

I appreciate the troll nature of this forum, particularly because it was posted in the "dodgy technology" part. You guys are hilarious. But sincerely, this technology will become very important for your country once the ramifications of the peculiar decisions that you have made begin to surface.
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Offline BravoV

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #95 on: June 09, 2018, 11:55:58 am »
How do we do what we do. Lots of fucking math. What else do you want? I have told you what the FESS does, explained Real-Time Computing...  That is it.

I get that nobody is familiar with this and my engineering language is mediocre, but that does not change what the technology does.

You all should focus more on the results. That is the transformative part. That is the part that is going to affect you all.

Are you saying you are just the marketing dude ?

Get the real company's engineer to speak here, cause all you did is just ruining your company.

No, I am saying that this is too advanced for everybody here, otherwise they would have invented it.

I am introducing you all to the concept and have no problem entertaining serious questions, so ask some.

Gotcha, bait works nicely.  :-DD

Guys, its clear now, its a scam.

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #96 on: June 09, 2018, 12:05:55 pm »
How do we do what we do. Lots of fucking math. What else do you want? I have told you what the FESS does, explained Real-Time Computing...  That is it.

I get that nobody is familiar with this and my engineering language is mediocre, but that does not change what the technology does.

You all should focus more on the results. That is the transformative part. That is the part that is going to affect you all.

Are you saying you are just the marketing dude ?

Get the real company's engineer to speak here, cause all you did is just ruining your company.

No, I am saying that this is too advanced for everybody here, otherwise they would have invented it.

I am introducing you all to the concept and have no problem entertaining serious questions, so ask some.

Gotcha, bait works nicely.  :-DD

Guys, its clear now, its a scam.

 :palm:  :horse:  Please go ALL IN on the disputing of 3DFS Technology, and this goes for everybody. I want there to be lots of documentation for review.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 12:08:39 pm by cdoerfler »
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Offline madires

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2018, 12:36:03 pm »
Sorry, but we're engineers who love numbers, facts, proper datasheets and lot's of wonderful math. We don't buy anything "magic".

Right, so what is the math behind all the losses that you experience in power networks? Can you explain that?

Remember the links I've posted a few pages ago? How can I take 3DFS seriously when even very basic specs like the maximum VAR are missing? This is like I would build a very simple PSU with a transformer, a bridge rectifier and a filter cap, and you would try to sell me a filter cap with a voltage rating and an "unlimited power rating". When asking about that unlimited power rating you tell me that this is technically correct because the cap is in parallel. Still I don't know the capacitance and can't determine if the cap is suitable as a filter cap for an 1A PSU. :palm:
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 01:50:34 pm by madires »
 

Offline dmills

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2018, 12:36:56 pm »
This is a snip of a datasheet for a real active harmonic cancellation and power factor box that I can buy today. There are many such in the market from a wide range of vendors, but they are mostly more or less similar and are technology which is well established and well understood by everyone who needs it.



See real data, and this is just from their 4 colour glossy that has marketing drool all over it, if I was actively shopping any of those guys would hook me up with a staff engineer who I can assure you would not be telling me that I am too stupid to understand how it works, and most assuredly would not be talking about us and uA when I got 300A of triplen to fix (Because doing either one will not get you a sale). 

Sorry, guys. You are about 20 years too late with the idea, which is not to say that grabbing a load of cash from investors who did not do due diligence is not going to work of course.

Regards, Dan.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 12:40:04 pm by dmills »
 

Offline cdoerfler

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Re: digital electricity
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2018, 12:49:22 pm »
This is a snip of a datasheet for a real active harmonic cancellation and power factor box that I can buy today. There are many such in the market from a wide range of vendors, but they are mostly more or less similar and are technology which is well established and well understood by everyone who needs it.



See real data, and this is just from their 4 colour glossy that has marketing drool all over it, if I was actively shopping any of those guys would hook me up with a staff engineer who I can assure you would not be telling me that I am too stupid to understand how it works, and most assuredly would not be talking about us and uA when I got 300A of triplen to fix (Because doing either one will not get you a sale). 

Sorry, guys. You are about 20 years too late with the idea, which is not to say that grabbing a load of cash from investors who did not do due diligence is not going to work of course.

Regards, Dan.


 :horse: :horse:

This is a computing system. It is different from what you are used to and therefore the metrics that are important are different. This technology synchronizes electricity in Real-Time in any multi-phase power network. There is a lot to that as all of the people on this forum are aware.

You are all drilling down on the details of the box and not on the concept that I am presenting.

Our interaction with electricity is not anything that has every been achieved before. It is a breakthrough. I am here to discuss that, but as engineers do, the conversation immediately plummets into the abyss of disbelief and subsequent trolldom.

I answered your question. You do not like the answer because it does not fit your predefined understanding of how shit works therefore you immediately discount.

So, please ask questions that you would like to know the answers to and I will answer them. Through this process, you will eventually form a new category of energy technology and fit that little blue box inside.

 
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