Author Topic: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?  (Read 14943 times)

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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #75 on: October 19, 2021, 06:53:32 am »
If cell phones caused cancer because of their "high frequency", imagine what visible light would do to us!


As someone who inhabits the wrong part of the planet in terms of my own complexion, I beg to differ. UV light that is contained in all visible light, unless filtered out, does indeed cause cancer. One of my nation's biggest killers. More deadly than koalas.

All visable light has UV? What? LEDs are causing cancer now?

I think you meant sunlight there.
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Offline borjam

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #76 on: October 19, 2021, 06:59:33 am »
As someone who inhabits the wrong part of the planet in terms of my own complexion, I beg to differ. UV light that is contained in all visible light, unless filtered out, does indeed cause cancer. One of my nation's biggest killers. More deadly than koalas.
Not at all.

Visble light is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum. UV is insible so obviously it is not visible light.

You are talking about light sources, and there is a world of difference between them. Good old tungsten incandescent bulbs emit very little UV because glass filters it out. Halogen lights are worse because the bulb is made of quartz.

Now, LEDs? Sodium vapor lights? No.
 

Offline perieanuo

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #77 on: October 19, 2021, 08:59:38 am »
hi,
that's like the cases in France country-side, where dozen babies are born without arms, there are studies but non-concludent (i'm talking about government studies after those medical issues appeared in mass-media). people blamed pesticides, other people suggested radiation minerals.
anyway, on those subjects regarding cancer from aliments or radio products, all studies will be 'not concludent'
i'm not conspirationist, but a pattern forms here, it's called capitalism stupidity.
of course chemicals have side effects, radio too, some organisms are more susceptible then another.
can we officially talk about this. NO, we are bad seeds by just asking the questions. the state doesn't do his feedback role, it's compromised, conclusion for sincere scientist from top-labs are censored.
do you think, if you can buy 100 euros device to move your muscle without your neural network to give the impulses, that radio is absolutely non-invasive? my answer is categorically no.
i worked almost 5 years as radio support engineer, had 'radio cash bonus'. i don't have medical issues on this side, i guess my body is not that sensitive to this. others are, i had colleagues with headache when exposed longer than 2-3 hours near relays in vhf. but my oppinion, higher the freq, we approach wavelengths close to our internal ones.
even for lower ones, that's a reason fences are around big power transmitters in simply AM relays. people died by not shutting down the transmitter before entering the perimeter. yes, it's not cancer they cicked the bucket, the idea is that we are affected by radiation (Am ~1MHz is just one example i know personally].
saying any radio receiver (powerfull enough, like anything that could harm us) is not affecting us is just pure ignorance
 

Offline salihkanber

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #78 on: October 19, 2021, 09:07:28 am »
I think there is not enough evidence to prove that, but the question is why "not enough evidence" ?
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #79 on: October 20, 2021, 09:00:52 pm »
Not at all.

Visble light is a part of the electromagnetic spectrum. UV is insible so obviously it is not visible light.

You are talking about light sources, and there is a world of difference between them. Good old tungsten incandescent bulbs emit very little UV because glass filters it out. Halogen lights are worse because the bulb is made of quartz.

Now, LEDs? Sodium vapor lights? No.

Try staring into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChJkEfGiv00

 8)
 

Offline borjam

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2021, 06:23:28 am »
Try staring into this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChJkEfGiv00

 8)
Is it a thermal effect or is there some imaginary-alchemical-pataphysical(*) non thermal effect at play?



(*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pataphysics
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2021, 09:07:11 pm »
Is it a thermal effect or is there some imaginary-alchemical-pataphysical(*) non thermal effect at play?

(*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pataphysics

Thermal. A good LED can be up to 50% efficient. If you are pumping in 100W, that means 50W of actual light power is going out, when it hits something it will heat it up.
Same idea with a laser cutter that uses visible laser light.
 

Online vk6zgo

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2021, 03:07:10 am »
hi,
that's like the cases in France country-side, where dozen babies are born without arms, there are studies but non-concludent (i'm talking about government studies after those medical issues appeared in mass-media). people blamed pesticides, other people suggested radiation minerals.
anyway, on those subjects regarding cancer from aliments or radio products, all studies will be 'not concludent'
i'm not conspirationist, but a pattern forms here, it's called capitalism stupidity.
of course chemicals have side effects, radio too, some organisms are more susceptible then another.
can we officially talk about this. NO, we are bad seeds by just asking the questions. the state doesn't do his feedback role, it's compromised, conclusion for sincere scientist from top-labs are censored.
do you think, if you can buy 100 euros device to move your muscle without your neural network to give the impulses, that radio is absolutely non-invasive? my answer is categorically no.
i worked almost 5 years as radio support engineer, had 'radio cash bonus'. i don't have medical issues on this side, i guess my body is not that sensitive to this. others are, i had colleagues with headache when exposed longer than 2-3 hours near relays in vhf. but my oppinion, higher the freq, we approach wavelengths close to our internal ones.
even for lower ones, that's a reason fences are around big power transmitters in simply AM relays. people died by not shutting down the transmitter before entering the perimeter.
:bullshit: :bullshit:

The fences are there to stop idiots climbing on masts,-----in MF radio broadcasting, the usual design is that the whole mast is insulated from earth, & is in fact, the antenna.
Because of this, the mast is "Hot" with RF, & at kW levels and above can give you life threatening burns if you touch it!!
The other, very possible danger with any mast or tower, is that unauthorised climbers may well fall to their deaths.

The main MF site I worked at had a "Dual mast" where the same vertical radiator was fed with 55kW at 720kHz, & 10kW at 810kHz.

One of the more pleasant duties of being on shift there was, on a nice day, moseying down the footpath next to the two feeders to the "mast" hut, & once there, to read & record the line, dual coupling unit, & mast current readings.
To do so, you needed to open the hut door, enter, & stand inside for as long as it took to do the readings.

On emerging, we would stroll around to make sure there was no visible physical damage to what parts of the mast, etc we could see from ground level.

The fenced area  enclosing the base of the mast is quite small, so if you stand just outside the fence, you are still only a couple of metres way from the mast, so any "woo-woo" magic "bities" can happily find their way through the quite ordinary mesh fencing, or over it! ;D

In all my years in Broadcasting, I knew various people who died accidentally------3 were in aircraft crashes, 2 in falls from heights,
Nary a one from  "just kicking the bucket" from getting too near a Radio mast!

Sorry, but your "almost 5 years as radio support engineer", doesn't cut it on this forum, where the vast majority are people with a solid grip on technical subjects, as well as hands on experience.

Go & regale dumbos off the street with your spurious expertise!
 

Offline borjam

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2021, 06:43:48 am »
Is it a thermal effect or is there some imaginary-alchemical-pataphysical(*) non thermal effect at play?

(*) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pataphysics

Thermal. A good LED can be up to 50% efficient. If you are pumping in 100W, that means 50W of actual light power is going out, when it hits something it will heat it up.
Same idea with a laser cutter that uses visible laser light.

Yes, so, nothing new.

What we are discussing in this thread is an entirely different issue. Does RF have non thermal effects? If that was the case, visible light at a much higher frequency would have more dramatic side effects.

 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2021, 09:55:27 am »
Quote
visible light at a much higher frequency would have more dramatic side effects

Does that follow? If you use a little IR to warm your hand, does that mean that a little green light will burn you? Material transparency depends on wavelength, so something might indeed be nasty to your insides by can't get past your walls or even skin. Bigger isn't necessarily worse.
 

Offline borjam

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2021, 10:29:30 am »
Quote
visible light at a much higher frequency would have more dramatic side effects

Does that follow? If you use a little IR to warm your hand, does that mean that a little green light will burn you? Material transparency depends on wavelength, so something might indeed be nasty to your insides by can't get past your walls or even skin. Bigger isn't necessarily worse.
Define "a little", please.

Again, thermal effects which are irrelevant to the cancer discussion.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2021, 12:22:38 pm »
Quote
Define "a little", please.

Figure of speech. In this case, take it to mean however much is necessary to warm your hand.

Quote
Again, thermal effects

Actually, an effect. Used to illustrate that bigger and faster isn't necessarily more of the same.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #87 on: October 22, 2021, 05:53:24 pm »
So, let's accept that those particular frequency bands are especially dangerous because, well, they tickle spermatozoids or whatnot.

Weren't they dangerous when they were used for high power, in the order of KW, television transmissions? Antennophobiacs tend to think that "those frequencies were invented for cell phone use" or some equivalent bullshit.

Well, TV transmission has always used frequency bands below 1 GHz (VHF/UHF), and even the more modern DVB-T or similar.

 

Offline MazeFrame

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2021, 01:41:25 pm »
that's like the cases in France country-side, where dozen babies are born without arms, there are studies but non-concludent (i'm talking about government studies after those medical issues appeared in mass-media). people blamed pesticides, other people suggested radiation minerals.
I remember seeing an ARTE produced documentary on that. I also read some reports from similar (NOT the same) genetic defects were observed in newborns of farmers in Mexico who used some pesticide (can't remember which one). Since pesticides (unlike waves) stay somewhat local to where they are used, I would argue towards that.
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Do cellphones actually give you cancer?
« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2021, 04:49:36 pm »
that's like the cases in France country-side, where dozen babies are born without arms, there are studies but non-concludent (i'm talking about government studies after those medical issues appeared in mass-media). people blamed pesticides, other people suggested radiation minerals.
I remember seeing an ARTE produced documentary on that. I also read some reports from similar (NOT the same) genetic defects were observed in newborns of farmers in Mexico who used some pesticide (can't remember which one). Since pesticides (unlike waves) stay somewhat local to where they are used, I would argue towards that.

Yep, although inconclusive as well at this point, pesticides seem to be the more likely culprit here.
 


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