Following the solar road: The solar car.

[Haenk]

(In German, sorry):

https://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/E-Auto-mit-Solarmodulen-Sion-Sono-Motors-bekommt-10-Millionen-auf-einen-Schlag-4630797.html

(Short: Solar cells attached to the car will charge the car when not in use. Spoiler: Not really a lot of charging going on... - Crowdfunded, already collected almost 50 Million EUR.)

[Kean]

The actual crowd funding is on their website https://sonomotors.com/ which has an English translation option

They wanted to raise 50 million Euro between 2nd and 30th December 2019, but extended to 20 January 2020 (50 days) because they didn't reach the original goal in time.

Doesn't 50 million Euro seem like a rather small amount to deliver actual cars?
I guess a lot of that will be deposits, not actual full payment.  Some is also loans.  They do proivide a funding breakdown on their site, including cancellations already processed.
If they do raise the 50M as deposits/loans then I'd imagine they have a fair chance of getting additional funding as well.  But how much?

[Jeroen3]

They say you get 30km per day of range by sun. If I got 2 liter of feul a day for free I'd be happy.
Germany is a tough crowd to sell EVs to.

[Lord of nothing]

When I had the same idea long before. The reality in most Citys is:
a) the Car is in some kind of Car park, Parking lot with no Sun
b) if the is Outdoor (depend on the City) the Bulings are so hight that a small amount of Sunlight reaching the Ground

I would use the Sunlight "just" for an Co² neutral AirCondition in the Summer nothing else.

[tszaboo]

I have a solar panel on the top of my car (3rd gen prius). It generates enough energy to drive the fan in the car, so it doesnt get that warm in the summer. If I have to park in the sun. But I dont like parking in the sun, and most people dont. The entire premise is stupid. And no, you wont get 34km/day, maybe you get 6-7 in california, parked under the sun, where every leather and plastic in your car rots away. Others calculated this.

[Lord of nothing]

What I know this "prototype" is the most effective Solar Cell:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye-sensitized_solar_cell

8% Output  Well on a House Roof, Solar Field,... its good enough but on a CAR?!

[Cyberdragon]

What I know this "prototype" is the most effective Solar Cell:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dye-sensitized_solar_cell

8% Output  Well on a House Roof, Solar Field,... its good enough but on a CAR?!

No, it's not. Silicon cells sre more efficient. Thin films are just smaller.

[chefkoch84]

https://sonomotors.com/en/technology/

they claim
"[...] This enables the Sion to generate an additional range of up to 5,800 kilometers per year – using only solar energy. Completely free of emissions and free of charge."
^^ that range is "measured for Munich"

and later they add this graph:




- At least the "Average cloudy sky" data sums up to the 5800 km per year. (most bullshit bingo companies would have assumed a full year of clear sky)

- also claimed is 220W/m^2  maximum panel efficiency

For the car they claim:

- "The battery capacity of 35 kWh enables a range of 255 kilometres according to WLTP driving cycle"

--> So 35kWh / 255 km   calculates to 0.137 kWh/km .... or 13.7 kWh / 100 km   
( btw... real driving (on a german Autobahn)  will be >20kWh / 100 km ...... but just reasonable marketing lie factor was deducted here)

--> correcting their shitty units on their graph: 22 km ( averagely clouded day in Apr-Jun ) calculates to:
 22km * 0.137kWh / km = 3.014 kWh

-->(for completly sunny day in Jun... in Munich)
34km  * 0.137kWh / km  = 4.658 kWh

--> for the entire year
5800km * 0.137kWh / km  = 794.6kWh

In the Munich Area some solar power values are:
Plant dimensions    0.32 kWp
Module pitch    30 °
Module orientation    180 ° (S)
Yield per year    343 kWh
(these would be 2 modules ...
each 200W peak ... Area of 1580mm * 808mm = 1.277m^2 )
Source: https://stromrechner.ibc-solar.de/

--> To Yield 794.6kWh per year one would need 0.32kWp * (794.6kWh / 343 kWh) = 0.7413 kWp

And according to their own 220 W/m^2 "peak performance" ... this would be : 0.7413 kW / ( 220 W/m^2 )   = 3.3695 m^2 (square meters)

BUT REMEMBER ... this is the estimated projected area of solar cells facing 60 degrees elevation ... perfectly South ... shaddow free ... 0% loss for battery up till now.


Now I hand-over to somebody calculating the size of the car... based on that marketing thing where the cells are visible :

[Domagoj T]

Haven't we had this conversation several times and each time agreed that it's not going to deliver nearly as much as claimed?

[SiliconWizard]

Haven't we had this conversation several times and each time agreed that it's not going to deliver nearly as much as claimed?

But it's going to deliver close to 50M EUR. Not too shabby.

[chefkoch84]

Or the car ist just very very big ... 

[Domagoj T]

And we have a new entry in this field.
https://www.squadmobility.com
From specs:
Performance
Max speed   45 km/h
Suspension   4 wheel independent
Motors   2 x in-Wheel RWD
Power   2 x 2kW (total 4kW)
Batteries   2 x portable Li-ion
Charging   Solar & 220 V
Turning circle   6 meter
Regeneration   Yes
Gearing   Fwd | Reverse


Batteries
Dimensions   Portable 2 x
Chemistry   Li-ion
Battery range   50 km per Batt*
Max. Batt. Range   100 km +*
Solar Range   20 km / day
Charging   Solar & 220V
Regeneration   Yes
*exclusive solar

This is the first solar car proposition I've seen where the solar mileage claim doesn't completely fall apart at napkin math.
4 kW motor, 45 km/h max speed, 20km, so at full power and 45 km/h it would need ~1800 Wh for 20 km. With 1.3 m^2 of solar panels (eyeballing the profile of the car) and 160 W per m^2 it would need to soak in the ideal sun for about 9 hours. Assuming it doesn't actually need full power to maintain 45 km/h, that seems in the right ballpark during summer months.

All that being said, it's the price that might be the deal maker. They're asking € 5750 ex. tax, for the basic model, up to € 9500 ex. tax for top of the line "signature edition", with doors, windows, air conditioning, and cargo box. Can they really make it for that amount? There are electric bicycles that cost more.

[Cyberdragon]

Except 45Km/h is about 28Mi/h...slightly faster than a damn golf cart. unless that is their intended purpose and not actual road travel, which it's useless for.

[Domagoj T]

They are going for L6e homologation, which has the 45 km/h speed limit, but is still road legal.

[Someone]

Except 45Km/h is about 28Mi/h...slightly faster than a damn golf cart. unless that is their intended purpose and not actual road travel, which it's useless for.

Even for a US'ian you've a rather narrow world view:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhood_Electric_Vehicle

They are going for L6e homologation, which has the 45 km/h speed limit, but is still road legal.

4kW peak power would see it much slower on a hill/incline, but still a nice little package.

[Cyberdragon]

Those are literally just road legal golf carts.

[David Hess]

The last time I did the math for this, it was better to spend the money for solar power on a larger main battery.

[Someone]

Those are literally just road legal golf carts.

Some are, but most are much more like motorcycles or small cars than a golf cart/scooter.

People like to sit upright in a vehicle so all sorts of small vehicles end up looking outwardly similar despite having radically different underlying drivetrains.