EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
Products => Dodgy Technology => Topic started by: steve30 on May 03, 2021, 09:28:20 am
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This topic seems to have disappeared in the Dave-forum-screwup so I'm reposting it at Halcyon's request.
I was given this anti-5G leaflet the other day :bullshit:. Its amusing to read ;D.
I never knew that 6.6Hz [sic] could cause suicide.
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There is so much wrong with that pamphlet. It looks like it was written by someone who has no idea about RF... oh wait....
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I approve of the scrbeans guy (https://archive.org/details/mso97clipart) being used for "short term memory loss". Alas that particular one looks a bit ruder than I remember.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/funny-anti-5g-leaflet/?action=dlattach;attach=1216419)
We'll never see well-drawn satire materials (https://scarfolk.blogspot.com/2017/10/memory-chemicals-1979.html) make it into these pamplets because they simply don't look sciencey enough. Perhaps we need to run a little competition to make some good source materials for anyone making these pamphlets in the future -- dress up the Absolute Maximum Ratings parts of some datasheets, add images of TV antennas and then finally product+price photos for expensive audio cables.
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Lust!
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Honestly, the most annoying thing about this pamphlet is the poor design and formatting. The rest is just amusing in an idiot sticking a finger in a light socket kinda way.
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Lust!
It's a good job they didn't mention which frequency causes that - it could lead some people to use it unethically.
Strange they didn't mention paranoia as one of the symptoms.
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Lust!
It's a good job they didn't mention which frequency causes that - it could lead some people to use it unethically.
Strange they didn't mention paranoia as one of the symptoms.
You two stole my lost reply. :P
I did comment that 5Hz would be really useful for making animals go to sleep!
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This dross is the "scientific evidence" needed by those who want to believe the false prophets - or influencers as they like to call themselves in our viral age. And here is the target audience for such bumph. Good job they cannot read all the words.
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Lust!
maybe if you use it to download porn?
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Honestly, the most annoying thing about this pamphlet is the poor design and formatting. The rest is just amusing in an idiot sticking a finger in a light socket kinda way.
Of course nothing it contains makes any sense. Microwaves in the Hz range? Sure!
What annoys me even more with this kind of "campaign":
* It can be undistinguishable from just a prank (and see how many people fall for all those April's fools to get an idea of that);
* It tends to make all related potential *legitimate* concerns look stupid. Being dead sure there are absolutely NO concern whatsoever would be just as stupid as the above leaflet. That's wouldn't be science, that would be religion.
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Lust!
That caught my eye too. ;)
Most disappointing that they don't specificy the frequency to induce it.
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That flyer has a similar energy to this leaflet
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I thought horses were GG.
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What I find irritating is that website, which leads to an austrian (not australian!) "expert", employee of the austrian public health system. With a dual PhD he can't be dumb (I suppose), still he seems to be a very active part of the anti
3G 4G 5G scene.
(I also found some legal stuff, where he had to recall a science paper stating all those bad influences of a specific cell tower - which later turned out to be not in use at all. LOL.)
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Hmm, so 4.5 - 25 Hz are microwaves now? Neat! :palm:
I guess on a galactic scale, a 66600 km wavelength is "micro"... ::)
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What I find irritating is that website, which leads to an austrian (not australian!) "expert", employee of the austrian public health system. With a dual PhD he can't be dumb (I suppose), still he seems to be a very active part of the anti 3G 4G 5G scene.
(I also found some legal stuff, where he had to recall a science paper stating all those bad influences of a specific cell tower - which later turned out to be not in use at all. LOL.)
PhDs in what subjects though? Obviously not electronic/electrical engineering of any kind, but it might be interesting to see.
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Here's one of the patents mentioned in that brochure: https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090237236A1/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090237236A1/en)
"Tooth located gps person tracking and location method and apparatus"
Cool stuff! Apparently the implanted device can send data back to the GPS satellite! Oh wait, the patent application was abandoned...
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Lust!
I knew there had to be a reason for my condition, it's all those microwaves. Stands to reason that's why Stanley Green's (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Green) diet didn't work for me.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fshootingparrots.co.uk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F02%2F269px-Stanley_Green_Oxford_Street_1977.jpg&f=1&nofb=1)
For some years I used to see this guy every day when I studied/worked north of Oxford Street.
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This is one of my favourites. Beautiful artwork. Check the date & group name in the lower-right corner for context.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/funny-anti-5g-leaflet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217179) (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_cow_pock.jpg)
I really want to know what the "opening mixture" is, have not found info on that. Maybe it was believed it could make you more "ready" to receive the jab?
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I really want to know what the "opening mixture" is, have not found info on that. Maybe it was believed it could make you more "ready" to receive the jab?
Isn't it crazy, 200 years later, there is still a large "anti-vaccine society". And even a golden calf.
I would guess the pricking was not the nicest thing in the world, so probably some alcohol was involved 8)
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I would guess the pricking was not the nicest thing in the world, so probably some alcohol was involved 8)
This is early 19th Century London, alcohol was involved in almost everything! Accounts of the amount of alcohol drunk daily by both commoners and the well-to-do are horrifying by modern standards. At the time England's gin consumption was around 2 million imperial gallons per year and beer 5 million gallons, plus port, wine and other spirits - this against an English population of around 8 million.
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Hmm, so 4.5 - 25 Hz are microwaves now? Neat! :palm:
I guess on a galactic scale, a 66600 km wavelength is "micro"... ::)
I assume that what was meant there is pulse repetition frequency (PRF). Not to endorse these claims, but they are maybe referring to possible explanations of “Havana syndrome” (q.v.), which is still an open topic.
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Hmm, so 4.5 - 25 Hz are microwaves now? Neat! :palm:
I guess on a galactic scale, a 66600 km wavelength is "micro"... ::)
I assume that what was meant there is pulse repetition frequency (PRF). Not to endorse these claims, but they are maybe referring to possible explanations of “Havana syndrome” (q.v.), which is still an open topic.
What was originally meant most likely is sound/vibration, nothing to do with electromagnetic waves. Some idiot grabbed those numbers and applied in a completely irrelevant context.
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Those figures are taken from this page (http://www.planningsanity.co.uk/reports/trower.htm (http://www.planningsanity.co.uk/reports/trower.htm)) which is a report about TETRA (nothing to do with 5G). It comments on TETRA using frequencies in the Hz range.
I'm not /entirely/ sure what it is on about as I can't be bothered to read the whole thing.
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I would guess the pricking was not the nicest thing in the world, so probably some alcohol was involved 8)
This is early 19th Century London, alcohol was involved in almost everything! Accounts of the amount of alcohol drunk daily by both commoners and the well-to-do are horrifying by modern standards. At the time England's gin consumption was around 2 million imperial gallons per year and beer 5 million gallons, plus port, wine and other spirits - this against an English population of around 8 million.
Drinking beer was safer than drinking the water back then. Remember John Snow and the Cholera epidemic caused by the Broad Street pump - the brewery workers were untouched.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_outbreak (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1854_Broad_Street_cholera_outbreak)
(Not so sure about the Gin though!)
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Hmm, so 4.5 - 25 Hz are microwaves now? Neat! :palm:
I guess on a galactic scale, a 66600 km wavelength is "micro"... ::)
I assume that what was meant there is pulse repetition frequency (PRF). Not to endorse these claims, but they are maybe referring to possible explanations of “Havana syndrome” (q.v.), which is still an open topic.
What was originally meant most likely is sound/vibration, nothing to do with electromagnetic waves. Some idiot grabbed those numbers and applied in a completely irrelevant context.
There are many theories about Havana Syndrome, and pulsed microwave radiation is one serious theory. The jury is still out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome .
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This advert was in a conspiracy theory newspaper that I look at and thought it was worth posting here ;D.
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No pockets to stick your phone in! >:D
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This advert was in a conspiracy theory newspaper that I look at and thought it was worth posting here ;D.
Hopefully with the hood up they muffle sounds to the ears sufficiently for the user to self-Darwinise under the next bus. :palm:
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Also, I would like to know how to beamform 25 hz to your head, playing a double bass low pitch?
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Actually, you can use a higher-frequency acoustic wave (ultrasound), beam-form it to a focus at the victim’s head, and amplitude modulate it at a low or even sub-audible frequency to obtain an apparent bass note at a distance from the source. This has been reduced to practice for perimeter control applications.
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Hmm, so 4.5 - 25 Hz are microwaves now? Neat! :palm:
I guess on a galactic scale, a 66600 km wavelength is "micro"... ::)
I assume that what was meant there is pulse repetition frequency (PRF). Not to endorse these claims, but they are maybe referring to possible explanations of “Havana syndrome” (q.v.), which is still an open topic.
What was originally meant most likely is sound/vibration, nothing to do with electromagnetic waves. Some idiot grabbed those numbers and applied in a completely irrelevant context.
There are many theories about Havana Syndrome, and pulsed microwave radiation is one serious theory. The jury is still out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome) .
However that would not explain the sound recorded by someone with a cellphone. Microwaves are not acoustic waves. There are two mechanisms by which a person could theoretically HEAR microwaves themselves (thermal expansion and contraction of bones in the head which then can transfer the mechanical vibrations to the ear drums, or direct electrochemical damage from strong microwave energy to nerve cells in the nerves and brain tissues responsible for processing signals from the ears). However, NONE of this would be able to be recorded by a cellphone's microphone. For one, thermal expansion/contraction noise generated by objects in the same room, would generate sound waves that would be far too weak by the time they traveled through the air to the cellphone's microphone (only a direct mechanical linking such as ear-bones would allow the sound to be detected). Also, direct pickup of the microwave energy by the cellphone's circuits in a way that would be recorded as an audible sound would be very unlikely (internal circuits in a phone are usually shielded by a grounded metal foil layer over the circuits, to make them comply with part 15 FCC regs, so the circuits don't accidentally emit levels of RF that could interfere with other radio reception). Furthermore, I think the person who heard the sound themselves, verified that what they had recorded sounded like what they heard when it was happening. It's unlikely that if there was a microwave generated sound in the person's head, and separately in the phone, that they would sound identical, as the signal conversion mechanism of the oscillations (from electromagnetic to mechanical), would be different between a person hearing it and the phone's microphone "hearing" it.
So this leaves the only viable possibility. That possibility is that a SONIC weapon was in use. Either a sonic weapon with a high, but audible, frequency was being used, or it was using an ultrasonic frequency, that vibrated the surface of some object in such a strong manner that its vibration had a non-linear effect on the material's vibration (like it was driven at 50kHz, but vibrated strongly at 5kHz, due to non-linear mechanical effects in the material).
And yes, that audio recording is real. It isn't just a myth. It actually exists. This is right from the source, linked to from the original AP article.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5MLAu-kKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5MLAu-kKs)
Here's the article https://apnews.com/article/health-north-america-ap-top-news-cuba-health-mystery-international-news-88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84 (https://apnews.com/article/health-north-america-ap-top-news-cuba-health-mystery-international-news-88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84)
Yet for some reason the news now is pushing the idea that it's microwave, seemingly FORGETTING that they actually have their hands on an actual AUDIO RECORDING from the Havana event. Originally, for a week or two, the news talked about this with the idea it was a sonic weapon, and every time they ran the news story they played this sound recording. Then as soon as the microwave theory was published, they SUDDENLY never again played (or even mentioned) this recording, almost as if they forgot it even existed. My guess, is that the sonic idea was TOO CLOSE to the truth. And the govt was NOT happy that the sonic weapon idea was being discussed by the news, so the govt published a new "study" that suggested microwaves were to blame, and published the study as a press release, to distract the news agencies from the actual sonic weapon being used. And it worked. The news has SUDDENLY forgotten all about the sonic weapon. But why would the govt want to hide the type of weapon? It's not like it's our weapon, as it was in fact being used AGAINST us. But that leads me to think maybe it WAS our weapon, and somehow, Russia or another enemy nation somehow managed to get their hands on it, and the US govt did NOT want it to come out in the news that a technology stolen from us was now being used against us. So the US govt intentionally mislead EVERY NEWS AGENCY, by publishing this fake report, trying to get them to forget the sonic weapon idea.
But trust me. I've NOT forgotten about the possibility of it being a sonic weapon. In fact, that's my BEST GUESS as to the type of weapon it was. It was almost CERTAINLY a sonic weapon.
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How can you be certain that the cell phone was not responding to strong modulated microwaves? I don't think the EMC susceptibility testing requirements include such extreme situations.
Assuming the modulation was intended to cause distress and damage to the victim, it could well give a similar spurious response in the receiver to the auditory response in the human target.
As I said, the jury is still out on this continuing problem.
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How can you be certain that the cell phone was not responding to strong modulated microwaves? I don't think the EMC susceptibility testing requirements include such extreme situations.
Assuming the modulation was intended to cause distress and damage to the victim, it could well give a similar spurious response in the receiver to the auditory response in the human target.
As I said, the jury is still out on this continuing problem.
Good points.
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This is an important problem, and the cause has not yet been nailed down.
My educated guesses (without access to the actual data):
1. To aim the damage at an individual target requires a short wavelength to achieve a focused delivery. Either electromagnetic (microwave or laser) or acoustic (ultrasound) is required.
2. There may be more than one method in use. Recent events have targeted victims outdoors in open space, but earlier events have occurred indoors. Electromagnetic waves are better than ultrasound to penetrate buildings, but both work outdoors.
3. There is a long history of microwaves aimed at the American embassy in Moscow, especially between 1953 and 1976 (between 2.5 and 4 GHz), although it is not believed to have been at dangerous levels. The famous passive microphone (embedded in a wood carving of the Great Seal of the United States) was invented by Lev Termen, the inventor of the theremin. It was given as a modern Trojan horse in 1945, and not discovered until 1952.
4. Even though none of this is ionizing radiation, both microwaves and ultrasound can produce local heating or other power-dependent effects, so an amplituded-modulated beam can produce audible effects.
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I find the funniest thing is the bizarre pairings of buzzwords. Stealth (undetectable and non-radiating) with harmful levels of EM radiation for example.
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There are many theories about Havana Syndrome, and pulsed microwave radiation is one serious theory. The jury is still out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_syndrome) .
Ha, Havana Syndrome is back! This time US staff in Vienna. Time to get the gear out - I wonder if they'll be able to get a better explanation this time!
The US government is investigating a series of health incidents in the Austrian capital Vienna involving its diplomats and other administration staff.
More than 20 officials have reported symptoms similar to Havana Syndrome - a mystery brain illness - since President Joe Biden took office in January.
The syndrome is unexplained, but US scientists say it is most probably caused by directed microwave radiation.
It was first found in Cuba in 2016-17.
US and Canadian diplomats in Havana complained of symptoms ranging from dizziness, loss of balance, hearing loss and anxiety to something they described as "cognitive fog".
The US accused Cuba of carrying out "sonic attacks", which it strongly denied, and the incident led to increased tension between the two nations.
A 2019 US academic study found "brain abnormalities" in the diplomats who had fallen ill, but Cuba dismissed the report.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57875322 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57875322)
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Another recent article in the NY Times said that the American government is re-opening the investigation, this time with government scientists who have appropriate security clearance to look at all the data collected by the intelligence agencies. The previous attempt (3 or 4 years ago) used staff that did not have clearance, and came to no useful conclusion due to lack of data.
An interesting question is cui bono? The first reports were when the Obama administration was trying to normalize relations with Cuba, and it's not clear to me why the Cuban government itself would try to stop that. There are other parties interested, some of whom are "state actors", with different agendas.
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Another recent article in the NY Times said that the American government is re-opening the investigation, this time with government scientists who have appropriate security clearance to look at all the data collected by the intelligence agencies. The previous attempt (3 or 4 years ago) used staff that did not have clearance, and came to no useful conclusion due to lack of data.
An interesting question is cui bono? The first reports were when the Obama administration was trying to normalize relations with Cuba, and it's not clear to me why the Cuban government itself would try to stop that. There are other parties interested, some of whom are "state actors", with different agendas.
I believe the current thinking on this is that some in the Cuban government want to keep the US as the "Big Bad" as a tool in order to maintain their rather restrictive controls over their citizens.
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That is possible, but Cuba itself doesn't have a strong engineering infrastructure, and other governments may have their own agenda with respect to US-Cuban relations.
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Guys we're getting distracted here. This discussion is about LUST.
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That is possible, but Cuba itself doesn't have a strong engineering infrastructure, and other governments may have their own agenda with respect to US-Cuban relations.
As we have seen recently, they have RF jammers for at least the HF ham-radio bands, that they got from the Soviets back during the cold war. What if they also have some directional microwave jammers from the Soviets from the same era? What would happen if instead of being used for jamming by aiming just above the top of the building at the antenna on the roof of that building, it was instead aimed at the side of the building itself and thus used as an anti-personnel weapon against the occupants of that building? Jammers can be very powerful. If it's from a fixed-mounted location instead of a portable unit, the transmitter can draw large amounts of power from the 120V or 240V mains. I could easily see a microwave jammer using a highly directional dish antenna (probably mounted on a motorized pan-tilt platform for aiming) capable of producing a very narrow and intense beam of microwaves, with the actual magnetron generating microwaves at a power level of several kilowatts. Imagine what that would do to a human body, even miles away from the transmitter location, if the beam was well collimated enough. Imagine a 5kW to 10kW microwave beam coming from a 1-meter diameter dish with very good parabolic geometry to produce a very collimated beam, so the beam would be 1-meter in diameter at the dish, and still about 1 meter in diameter even a mile away, and maybe increasing only one inch in diameter for every 2 miles it travels. Now imagine microwave jammer dish being mounted on the top of a Cuban government owned building, and aimed at an American embassy just a few miles away. It's a reasonable scenario, I think.
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I never knew that 6.6Hz [sic] could cause suicide.
Ah, the old ones are the good ones.
I remember that 50-60 years ago some people claimed that 7Hz was a magic frequency for upsetting the brain. There wasn't any rationale for that of course.
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Imagine a 5kW to 10kW microwave beam coming from a 1-meter diameter dish with very good parabolic geometry to produce a very collimated beam, so the beam would be 1-meter in diameter at the dish, and still about 1 meter in diameter even a mile away, and maybe increasing only one inch in diameter for every 2 miles it travels.
Reasonable-diameter parabolic reflectors aren't that focused. A one-meter dish operating at 2.4 GHz will have a -3dB beamwidth of about 7 degrees. At a one mile distance, the beam spot will be about 648 feet in diameter. Now the Arecibo dish (RIP) had a 2.4 GHz beamwidth of about 0.028 degrees -- at one mile distance this would give a beam spot of 2.6 feet. Well, not really, given the dish dimensions, but you get the idea.
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...(thought the 5 Hz audio was to / for affect the bowels function...)
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Reasonable-diameter parabolic reflectors aren't that focused. A one-meter dish operating at 2.4 GHz will have a -3dB beamwidth of about 7 degrees. At a one mile distance, the beam spot will be about 648 feet in diameter. Now the Arecibo dish (RIP) had a 2.4 GHz beamwidth of about 0.028 degrees -- at one mile distance this would give a beam spot of 2.6 feet. Well, not really, given the dish dimensions, but you get the idea.
Not quite, since at one mile, you would very much be in the near-field Fresnel region of the Arecibo dish. The far field for that antenna begins at 1441km! Even the reactive near-field only ends 9.1 km away.
https://www.antenna-theory.com/basics/fieldRegions.php (https://www.antenna-theory.com/basics/fieldRegions.php)
The NTIA has published TM-87-129 with some math to calculate radiation patterns in the near field, and TM-90-145 to calculate power density for parabolic reflectors. Not sure if the latter applies here, since Arecibo had a spherical main reflector.
https://www.ntia.doc.gov/report/1987/procedures-calculating-field-intensities-antennas (https://www.ntia.doc.gov/report/1987/procedures-calculating-field-intensities-antennas)
https://www.ntia.gov/report/1990/procedure-calculating-power-density-parabolic-circular-reflector-antenna (https://www.ntia.gov/report/1990/procedure-calculating-power-density-parabolic-circular-reflector-antenna)
Guys we're getting distracted here. This discussion is about LUST.
Oops - carry on then!
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Not quite, since at one mile, you would very much be in the near-field Fresnel region of the Arecibo dish. The far field for that antenna begins at 1441km! Even the reactive near-field only ends 9.1 km away.
That's why I said: Well, not really, given the dish dimensions, but you get the idea.
But those are interesting links. Thanks!
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And yes, that audio recording is real. It isn't just a myth. It actually exists. This is right from the source, linked to from the original AP article.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5MLAu-kKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5MLAu-kKs)
Here's the article https://apnews.com/article/health-north-america-ap-top-news-cuba-health-mystery-international-news-88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84 (https://apnews.com/article/health-north-america-ap-top-news-cuba-health-mystery-international-news-88bb914f8b284088bce48e54f6736d84)
My first thought was a low-frequency (audible) switching power supply. How loud was it? What other devices were in the immediate area? How much ambient noise has been removed? Etc.
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For example, I've heard the switching supply of a laptop via a ground loop in a PA system. (purely electronic until it got to the PA speakers, then audible from there) It was constant as long as the computer wasn't doing anything, and changed to a warble as the computer's activity changed, even slightly. Just moving the mouse was enough.
It wasn't *exactly* like this recording, but I thought it was similar at first listen. (although a fundamental that high doesn't leave much room for audible harmonics; likewise for a recording that is designed to barely cover the range of human hearing) A different circuit design ("spread spectrum" by hopping around discretely?), or perhaps multiple circuits that are all part of the same poorly laid-out system that also has a speaker involved somewhere, might produce this recording by accident.
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I unplugged the laptop from the wall and let it run on battery instead (broke the ground loop), and the noise stopped instantly. I plugged it back into the wall, and it was back. It had a USB connection to the otherwise analog sound system (the analog mixer had a jellybean USB sound card in it), so I put a USB isolator in that connection, which also killed the noise, even with the laptop powered from the wall.
Lesson: Ground loop noise is not limited to the raw AC power line. It could be anything, and the solution is the same: find and break the loop while retaining all of the safety grounds.
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Nutters everywhere
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"damaged health"...that sounds like a crappy explanation of getting hurt in a video game. "Aah! My health got damaged!" :-DD
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Those figures are taken from this page (http://www.planningsanity.co.uk/reports/trower.htm (http://www.planningsanity.co.uk/reports/trower.htm)) which is a report about TETRA (nothing to do with 5G). It comments on TETRA using frequencies in the Hz range.
I'm not /entirely/ sure what it is on about as I can't be bothered to read the whole thing.
TETRA uses UHF bands, but the basic channel is based on a 4-slot TDMA structure - such that mobiles typically transmit voice in 55ms bursts at a rate of about 17Hz.
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What they didn’t mention about ‘sma art meters’, is you have better sex.
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And yes, that audio recording is real. It isn't just a myth. It actually exists. This is right from the source, linked to from the original AP article.
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Yet for some reason the news now is pushing the idea that it's microwave, seemingly FORGETTING that they actually have their hands on an actual AUDIO RECORDING from the Havana event. .
But trust me. I've NOT forgotten about the possibility of it being a sonic weapon. In fact, that's my BEST GUESS as to the type of weapon it was. It was almost CERTAINLY a sonic weapon.
Where the sound comes from - 7:25
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xBJERznOgA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xBJERznOgA)
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Where the sound comes from - 7:25
It comes from your computer's speakers.
That's a so-called movie with a sound track, right?
They pay people to make sounds and then record them. ::)
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Nutters everywhere
"Creative" is about right :-DD