Author Topic: Here we go again  (Read 4811 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SFTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 6
  • Country: ad
Here we go again
« on: April 07, 2024, 06:44:07 pm »
Hi all,

I thought that this was a 1st April joke... It is not  :wtf::palm:

"Building the first highway segment in the U.S. that can charge electric vehicles big and small as they drive"

"Construction to begin on test bed in Indiana to develop wireless charging for electric vehicles traveling at highway speeds"

https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2024/Q1/building-the-first-highway-segment-in-the-u.s-that-can-charge-electric-vehicles-big-and-small-as-they-drive.html

Are they flogging a dead cow again?

SF
 

Online SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14885
  • Country: fr
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2024, 09:59:50 pm »
There's a truckload of money to be made there as long as you have low ethics.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5338
  • Country: us
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2024, 10:57:43 pm »
At least this doesn't violate physical laws, the governors ignorant comments notwithstanding.  It is hard to see how it makes economic sense. It isn't obvious to me, one way or the other.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 05:21:36 pm by CatalinaWOW »
 

Offline CaptDon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1886
  • Country: is
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2024, 01:55:44 pm »
It only makes sense when the numbers are crunched by the same government who thought consuming 900,000 gallons of petrol to produce 1,000,000 gallons of ethanol was a win-win positive outcome!!! Too stupid to realize the total consequences of having burned 1,900,000 gallons of total carbon footprint fuel or the absolutely stupid consequence of adding 10% ethanol to gasoline also generates a 5% loss in fuel economy!!! But I see government sponsored 100 tanker car ethanol trains come through our town every day. As long as some worthless piece of shit is getting free government money they will keep telling 'advisors' to the politicians that it is a win-win!! Look at our transportation secretary, he doesn't have a pilot's license or a CDL but enacts rules 'proposed' to him by tax dollar leaches and he doesn't have the personal expertise to filter out the noise!!! Your government and your tax dollars at waste!!! Kind of like when Powell was head of the F.C.C., he couldn't identify any component of an R.F. circuit but was in charge of the rule making concerning R.F. circuits!!
Collector and repairer of vintage and not so vintage electronic gadgets and test equipment. What's the difference between a pizza and a musician? A pizza can feed a family of four!! Classically trained guitarist. Sound engineer.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6514
  • Country: fi
    • My home page and email address
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2024, 02:15:21 pm »
But I see government sponsored 100 tanker car ethanol trains come through our town every day.
In Iceland?!  (Based on your current flag.)
 

Online mariush

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5104
  • Country: ro
  • .
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2024, 03:12:54 pm »
I assume it's gonna be horrible efficiency

Powering using fixed lines above would be cheaper : https://www.wired.com/2017/03/running-delivery-trucks-trolley-wires-isnt-crazy-sounds/

I see just a couple issues with the above.. would have to be quite high up or you won't be able to do oversized (too high loads)  and at least in US you'd no longer be able to land on highways in an emergency.

Article suggests use near shipping ports... i can see trucks moving shipping containers from port to locations 20-50 miles around the port.

Billing for the electricity could be an issue, but I suppose some kind of black box could log when truck starts charging and how much it takes in and send info by sms/internet to the company that manages the particular segment of power lines... you'd have to trust nobody hacks those devices (or maybe random weight  scale places could also access the black box and check i guess, or put cameras on poles and have the black box in truck broadcast an ID to pair the photo with a black box id - any truck that pulls power and broadcasts no id means stealing electricity)

« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 03:23:32 pm by mariush »
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5338
  • Country: us
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2024, 05:35:14 pm »
I assume it's gonna be horrible efficiency

Powering using fixed lines above would be cheaper : https://www.wired.com/2017/03/running-delivery-trucks-trolley-wires-isnt-crazy-sounds/

I see just a couple issues with the above.. would have to be quite high up or you won't be able to do oversized (too high loads)  and at least in US you'd no longer be able to land on highways in an emergency.

Article suggests use near shipping ports... i can see trucks moving shipping containers from port to locations 20-50 miles around the port.

Billing for the electricity could be an issue, but I suppose some kind of black box could log when truck starts charging and how much it takes in and send info by sms/internet to the company that manages the particular segment of power lines... you'd have to trust nobody hacks those devices (or maybe random weight  scale places could also access the black box and check i guess, or put cameras on poles and have the black box in truck broadcast an ID to pair the photo with a black box id - any truck that pulls power and broadcasts no id means stealing electricity)

Overhead lines are cheaper for a limited routes in high traffic areas.  It all comes down to how many kilometers can be transferred per charging station.  If that number is large the wire costs of overhead will exceed the charging station costs.  Other factors that are either unknown or hard to determine include maintenance, weather issues, and route service.  For a simple example of how this affects cost compare a linear route between towns with a "node" configuration serving all roads in a town within within range of the charging station.  In the linear case wire cost rises linearly with route length as does charging station cost.  In the "node" case wire costs are proportional to town area, where charging station cost is not a function of the linear road distance, but something related to town radius and traffic density.   This simple example of the complexity still oversimplifies.  A wired solution allows essentially unhampered route planning within the wired network.  The "node" configuration requires periodic passes past the charging location, but does allow for "off road" trips into driveways, parking lots and warehouses. 

One obvious thought is a hybrid solution, with the nodes being overhead wire routes instead of wireless transfer. 

One thing no one mentions in these comparisons.  Many alternative energy solutions are facing headwinds for aesthetic reasons.  I am sure this is a factor in this case also.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 05:43:58 pm by CatalinaWOW »
 

Offline CaptDon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1886
  • Country: is
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2024, 02:18:04 pm »
Living on the 'North Coast' of the U.S.A., Lake Erie region. Heavy rail traffic along the 'shoreline'. I was a Purchase Services Agreement (PSA) contractor to a locomotive manufacturer in the area for the past 12 years. Retired now. Sticking around just for the fun.
Collector and repairer of vintage and not so vintage electronic gadgets and test equipment. What's the difference between a pizza and a musician? A pizza can feed a family of four!! Classically trained guitarist. Sound engineer.
 
The following users thanked this post: Nominal Animal

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6802
  • Country: nl
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2024, 04:54:38 pm »
If you don't mind the kV voltages and obliterating some long wave spectrum capacitive could be doable.

Roads are expensive, electronics are cheap. Some metal film below the road surface and some electronics every 10+ meter will hardly make a dent on road costs. It's the Litz coils which make wireless charging roads expensive.
 

Offline Rick Law

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3470
  • Country: us
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2024, 06:33:25 pm »
If you don't mind the kV voltages and obliterating some long wave spectrum capacitive could be doable.

Roads are expensive, electronics are cheap. Some metal film below the road surface and some electronics every 10+ meter will hardly make a dent on road costs. It's the Litz coils which make wireless charging roads expensive.

Don't forget the maintained cost, both in dollar terms and in pollution.  Digging up the highway to do any electronics/electrical repair is not going to be cheap.  The cost goes up significantly in heavily traveled road.
 

Online SiliconWizard

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14885
  • Country: fr
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2024, 06:39:34 pm »
If you don't mind the kV voltages and obliterating some long wave spectrum capacitive could be doable.

Roads are expensive, electronics are cheap. Some metal film below the road surface and some electronics every 10+ meter will hardly make a dent on road costs. It's the Litz coils which make wireless charging roads expensive.

Don't forget the maintained cost, both in dollar terms and in pollution.  Digging up the highway to do any electronics/electrical repair is not going to be cheap.  The cost goes up significantly in heavily traveled road.

Yes, but that makes money circulate. :popcorn:
 

Offline Marco

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6802
  • Country: nl
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2024, 07:28:08 pm »
Don't forget the maintained cost, both in dollar terms and in pollution.  Digging up the highway to do any electronics/electrical repair is not going to be cheap.  The cost goes up significantly in heavily traveled road.
We have a lot of intentionally porous asfalt here, needs to be resurfaced every 10-15 years any way.

After surface grinding, grind some parts a little deeper to embed the foil and cables.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2024, 07:33:59 pm by Marco »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 38027
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2024, 11:11:44 pm »
There's a truckload of money to be made there as long as you have low ethics.

Bingo.
 
The following users thanked this post: Heartbreaker

Offline NiHaoMike

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9153
  • Country: us
  • "Don't turn it on - Take it apart!"
    • Facebook Page
Re: Here we go again
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2024, 12:42:03 pm »
Billing for the electricity could be an issue, but I suppose some kind of black box could log when truck starts charging and how much it takes in and send info by sms/internet to the company that manages the particular segment of power lines... you'd have to trust nobody hacks those devices (or maybe random weight  scale places could also access the black box and check i guess, or put cameras on poles and have the black box in truck broadcast an ID to pair the photo with a black box id - any truck that pulls power and broadcasts no id means stealing electricity)
The simple solution is to only put up the lines above a toll road.
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf