Author Topic: Highway lamp pole generators?  (Read 3605 times)

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Offline peteb2

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Highway lamp pole generators?
« on: December 27, 2021, 11:34:38 am »
 :palm: Mini wind-turbine in the roadside lamp pole catches the draft off a passing car that charges the storage battery that powers the lamp all night?

Not since the Solar (Freaking) Highways uselessness have we seen the start of another campaign from a Smart-shit businesses to suck in gullible city councils and silly governments…

www.tinyurl.com/2cefyk6y
« Last Edit: December 27, 2021, 11:41:24 am by peteb2 »
 

Online AVGresponding

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2021, 01:20:44 pm »
:palm:

I think a large part of the problem is that the people in local government responsible for allocating funding for energy efficiency and renewables projects are not engineers, and so are easily sucked in by a slick sales pitch.
nuqDaq yuch Dapol?
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Offline cgroen

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2021, 02:16:22 pm »
Something tells me that this (nonsense) generator will have an impact on the gas consumption of the passing cars.....
 

Offline Haenk

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2021, 02:38:04 pm »
Does it have an impact on the gas consumption? I'm not sure about this, as you are pushing the air away anyway, so the energy is already wasted (without generator, the air will just push more air, aka turning the compressed air into heat, eventually).
However this is still stupid, as the method to generate/store electrical energy is *way* more expensive than the electrical energy itself, probably in decades (not even calculating the maintenance costs).
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2021, 11:13:18 am »
Quote
However this is still stupid, as the method to generate/store electrical energy is *way* more expensive than the electrical energy itself

How so? A turbine is alleged to generate "as much energy as 215 square feet of solar panels" which isn't a trivial amount. There should be little per-unit cost to store that (these are mounted on existing light poles, so there is already wiring to them - same situation as domestic panelts feeding back to the grid). BFO battery or whatever storage back at base means that cost is spread over all units (and there could be a LOT of them).

Mostly using existing infrastructure, the cost of the turbine (making, fitting, etc) is what the generated power has to pay for.

But... suppose it doesn't and the network is run on a net loss. Maybe that's how we have to go to be 'green'. It's one thing saying that doing this costs X amount more than not doing it, but if you need that power and you can't tap a cheap (aka fossil fuel) source then that's what you have to pay. OK, you say, just put up more solar panels or wind farms, but where? I think it's a bit simplistic to say "Gosh, that costs money so it's shit".

 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2021, 11:27:16 am »
There was a thread a while back that included pictures / videos...  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/dodgy-technology/enlil-vertical-axis-turbine/
Regards, Chris

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Offline Haenk

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2021, 12:15:16 pm »
"Gosh, that costs money so it's shit".

I'm all fine with installing a gazillion of solar panels and whatever - however *this* solution is plain stupid.
Each turbine will need not only the turbine, but also battery storage and extra electronics, *plus* installation. Probably talking about several thousand EUROs for each generator here. Plus - at least here in Germany, those lamp posts are usually actually *rented* - so it is unlikely the modification is contractual possible at all.
It would be a way better idea to just put up some solar panels and a battery storage every 100 lamp posts or so. And probably *way* cheaper and *way* more reliable.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2021, 01:31:13 pm »
Well, it puzzles me why my posts are unreadable, or indecipherable.

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Each turbine will need not only the turbine, but also battery storage

Somehow, you missed, or I dreamt that I typed:

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BFO battery or whatever storage back at base

But, even so, you then propose it yourself!

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It would be a way better idea to just put up some solar panels and a battery storage every 100 lamp posts or so

Oh, but solar panels are somehow so different from wind turbines that they can send their juice further. Or something. Not only that, according to you they are installation-free whereas turbines are installation extra.

My bias detector is flashing it's LED. :-DMM
 

Offline Terry Bites

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2021, 04:25:28 pm »
Over the holiday period I have put a turbine in the back of my pants. I'm selling power back to Brassica Eco Grids. I think they said smart meter or was it F**t meter?
 

Offline MazeFrame

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2022, 03:24:19 pm »
When you have a perfectly functional vertical axis wind turbine, why not mount one high up on every third lamp pole to feed its neighbours (assuming 40W per fixture and Icewind RW-100 as the turbine)?

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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2022, 03:34:26 am »
:palm:

I think a large part of the problem is that the people in local government responsible for allocating funding for energy efficiency and renewables projects are not engineers, and so are easily sucked in by a slick sales pitch.


Another part is the urge to do something at any cost and whatever it is. It inevitably leads to this. Because if you actually allocate funding reasonably and efficiently, you'll do a lot less (which IMO is good.)

So, you're right saying that most of those people actually can't judge if projects are viable or not, but even if they were, they would still sign the freaking thing. Funny part is, they usually ask "experts" before making a decision. If said experts say no, they'll just pick another set of experts until they get a green light, rather than wait longer for another project that might actually make sense. Yes, that's sad.

That's how politics works these days. If you were an engineer in that position, you would probably either do exactly the same, or resign when you realized what a pile of crap you have to do just to keep your seat.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2022, 03:42:10 am by SiliconWizard »
 

Offline Transconductance

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2022, 05:20:53 pm »
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  It's not "untapped" energy if you're getting it from the cars by changing the aerodynamics along the highway.  It would be very interesting (and difficult) to measure this effect.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2022, 05:34:13 pm »
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It's not "untapped" energy if you're getting it from the cars by changing the aerodynamics along the highway

Why not?

I don't know if it is or it isn't, but the cars are expending energy moving the air and then... what? It dissipates, and if you capture some of that, are you affecting the car that's already gone? Maybe there is an effect on following cars, but also consider the lack of effect on cars going the other way. So it might be using untapped energy AND reducing energy expenditure at the same time.

Maybe you're right, but an unequivocal statement like that without any evidence and using a narrow context doesn't help in pointing to dodgy ideas.
 

Offline CJay

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2022, 08:23:34 pm »
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2022, 09:00:13 pm »
Quote
It's not "untapped" energy if you're getting it from the cars by changing the aerodynamics along the highway

Why not?

Where does the energy come from?
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2022, 11:18:44 pm »
Quote
It's not "untapped" energy if you're getting it from the cars by changing the aerodynamics along the highway

Why not?

Where does the energy come from?

The cars?
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2022, 11:29:39 pm »
Indeed =)
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2022, 11:49:21 pm »
That's the untapped energy, is it not? If you don't trap it, it goes to waste.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2022, 07:47:08 pm »
That's the untapped energy, is it not? If you don't trap it, it goes to waste.

The emerit physicists among us may be able to model this much better than poor engineers can.
But my take on this, at first sight, is that it's just going to increase air friction for passing car, so increase drag - I can't see how it could be "neutral". Would be like generating power from air flow on a car.
Now if you or someone else can come up with an elaborate model of passing cars, roads, and those sideway poles, and prove that it absolutely *doesn't* increase drag for passing cars whatsoever, have at it. I'm all ears. =)

Now, sure, it's probably going to be a tiny fraction of each car's energy - so you could consider it "negligible". But as negligible as the power you're going to harvest from them.

Point is, however tiny the fraction of energy harvested from each car passing by, it's still going to come from the cars - and thus, from the energy they themselves consume. Which means, the contraption would be just equivalent to taxing car owners with the corresponding amount of harvested energy, and use the same source the cars use (fossil fuels, electricity...)

And of course, beyond that, there's the cost of installation of maintenance, which is an additional indirect tax. So this just looks like yet another big green lie just to make an excuse for taxing people more, without making anything better in the end.

Now, again, if you can solidly demonstrate that the whole thing wouldn't create extra drag, I'm all ears. At this point, I do no buy that.

 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2022, 08:07:51 pm »
Quote
it's just going to increase air friction for passing car, so increase drag

The car that's already gone past and is battling a new wall of air?

I know that turbulence from an aircraft can persist for a considerable time, so following aircraft try not to follow too closely. But whether or not that following aircraft does follow closely or not, I don't think it affects the lead aircraft. That's the kind of situation we have here.

So, the following car(s) will probably be affected since the turbines will likely prevent the air escaping to the other carriageway. But then, by the same token, cars on the other carriageway won't be affected as they would have been had
the turbines not been there. So it is swings on this side, roundabouts on the other.

What if it's a single car whose following wake touches the turbine instead of, say, a light pole or central barrier?

And please PLEASE for deity's sake don't overlook that I said:

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I don't know if it is or it isn't

and then completed by explicitly making the point:

Quote
Maybe you're right, but an unequivocal statement like that without any evidence and using a narrow context doesn't help in pointing to dodgy ideas.

So, are you saying unequivocally that it is not energy that would otherwise go to waste? Or are you ignoring my caveats and arguing for the sake of it?
 

Offline Haenk

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2022, 03:11:06 pm »


Forgot to mention: My BS detector went off. The generator is running at the same speed - with or without a bus passing by. So it would likely be a better idea to install those generators up on a hill.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2022, 03:15:15 pm by Haenk »
 
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Offline JohanH

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Re: Highway lamp pole generators?
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2022, 03:46:39 pm »
They aren't looking for "untapped energy", only "untapped money".  :horse:
 
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