magic* water conditioner

[anovickis]

* = I'm not trying to bias you on this - I want a real answer

My wife is suggesting we buy this device
https://www.costco.com/.product.1331523.html

To improve our water quality as it comes in from the mains.

I told her we would have better luck placing some quartz crystals around the pipe, but still this device is selling and I'm a bit confused as to what exactly it is doing.  My guess is nothing except consuming some power.

Am I wrong ?

(I did read https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=water-treatment  ) but I thought perhaps someone has already investigated this particular form of snake oil on here

[Ian.M]

https://www.wqa.org/Portals/0/Technical/Technical%20Fact%20Sheets/MagneticsTF_Rpt.pdf

[cliffyk]

The "ScaleBlaster" is nothing but a "WalletBlaster. All it will do is make your wallet $300 lighter.

If you have hard water--"hard" enough to be a real problem--you need a plain ol' salt-based ion exchange system. For well over 40 years, living here if Florida, "out-in-the-county" as they say, and using well-water, we have hard water.  We also have had salt-based softeners for those years, they last 15-20 years or so--or until you decide that old "mechanical timer" inefficient monstrosity needs to go.

That last happened for us three years ago when we replaced an old Autotrol softener with a Pelican system with a flashy electronic control that monitors usage (in gallons) and recharges itself only after 1400 gallons have bee used (this and the amount of salt used per recharge is fully configurable--the old unit recharged every 4 days whether it was needed or not).  It was not cheap, but it is the "best there is" with a pretty stainless steel tank and state-of-the-art valving and controls. It has a 20-25 year estimated service life, before the filter media will need to be renewed, We use 8-10 40 lb sags of salt per year, typically $ to $5 per bag at Ace Hardware or Tractor supply (whicheve has them on sale).

The "sodium in the treated water" boogeyman is just fear-mongering. The treated water has ≅7.5 mg of sodium per quart (whole milk has 200 mg/quart; beer has 38; bottled water is the same, typically 5 to 10 mg/quart).

[TK]

I did some research in the past and this device removes calcium accumulation from pipes and faucets.  It does not change the quality of the water.  I think it uses ultrasound vibrations through the pipes to avoid calcium being deposited.  I am not sure if it works on new piping system that uses PVC instead of copper.

[Haenk]

I did some research in the past and this device removes calcium accumulation from pipes and faucets.  It does not change the quality of the water.  I think it uses ultrasound vibrations through the pipes to avoid calcium being deposited.  I am not sure if it works on new piping system that uses PVC instead of copper.

No, it does not remove anything. Yes, it does not change the quality of the water. No, a coil is wound around the pipe (that would suggest a magnetic field treatment). No (as in "does not work on PVC and/or copper anyway").

Easy scientific proof: If the "hard water" problem would be that easy and cheap to solve, it would have removed ion exchange solutions from the market as fast as the blink of your eye. Obviously those are still around.

It's just another magic device, that does essentially nothing (other than consuming power). However in theory, this works. But you need a *huge* magnetic field to be effective, huge as in "industrial scale huge". Which comes at a price: Huge power bills (so it's cheaper to shower with bottled water, I guess).


This is a good video on explaining things:

[MosherIV]

Yes, I agree that it is a magnetic based water treatment device.

I have a diy system myself. I just got a neodynium magnet and taped it to my water inket pipe.
The theory around magnetism is that it changes the polarsation of calcium in the water.
What it does for me is the limescale is softer and it flakes off instead of building up hard deposites. This is in my kettle.

[PlainName]

Just a small point:

If the "hard water" problem would be that easy and cheap to solve, it would have removed ion exchange solutions from the market as fast as the blink of your eye.

Conversely, if it's completely useless it would disappear off the market as fast as the blink of your eye. And yet...

This topic thrives because logic such as you imply doesn't work in the real world. In fact, your statement might even encourage this to thrive - it wouldn't be around if it didn't work, right? So therefore it must be OK (and probably some competitor is trying to diss it because their product can't match it, or maybe it's a 5G conspiracy).

[free_electron]

Yes, I agree that it is a magnetic based water treatment device.

I have a diy system myself. I just got a neodynium magnet and taped it to my water inket pipe.
The theory around magnetism is that it changes the polarsation of calcium in the water.
What it does for me is the limescale is softer and it flakes off instead of building up hard deposites. This is in my kettle.

and how is calcium magnetic ?
if anything it works on the dissolved iron particles ...

i have water from a community well that contains dissolved iron , bacterial iron and manganese.
solution : 4 stage treatment - 5 micron particle filter , iron and manganese filter , active carbon filter , water softener -> house.  inside house : under the kitchen sink, reverse osmosis system with remineralizer cartridge feeding a 'drinking water tap , and feeding the refrigerator ice maker. Best tasting water ever.

[Cerebus]

and how is calcium magnetic ?

Responding to a magnetic field is not the same as being ferromagnetic. e.g. Hydrogen responds to a magnetic field and this is exploited to build MRI scanners. All nuclei in all atoms, and obviously all electrons, respond to magnetic fields. I'm not suggesting their is any substance to the claim in this instance, but it's a fallacy to say that something won't be influenced by a magnetic field because it's not 'magnetic' in the everyday sense.

[cliffyk]

Just a small point:

If the "hard water" problem would be that easy and cheap to solve, it would have removed ion exchange solutions from the market as fast as the blink of your eye.

Conversely, if it's completely useless it would disappear off the market as fast as the blink of your eye. And yet...

This topic thrives because logic such as you imply doesn't work in the real world. In fact, your statement might even encourage this to thrive - it wouldn't be around if it didn't work, right? So therefore it must be OK (and probably some competitor is trying to diss it because their product can't match it, or maybe it's a 5G conspiracy).

"Placebo effect" is a real and powerful force--numerous studies in numerous fields have proven this over and over.

Make the intake and/or exhaust noise louder on a car and people will swear it has more power, even if it is actually less because the rice-boy air filter or over-sized exhaust piping mucked up the intake/exhaust tuning...

[Ysjoelfir]

solution : 4 stage treatment - 5 micron particle filter , iron and manganese filter , active carbon filter , water softener -> house.  inside house : under the kitchen sink, reverse osmosis system with remineralizer cartridge feeding a 'drinking water tap , and feeding the refrigerator ice maker. Best tasting water ever.

I can fully agree with that, we have a way more basic setup with less filter stages for space reasons (I use a 2 micron particle filter and a combined iron/manganese and active carbon block filter in a 2 stage system) that feeds 1) to my drink water tap, 2) to my beverage machine. I drink the carbonated water from that all the day, SWMBO drinks the water from the drink water tap.
It tasts vastly different to the regular, unfiltered water.

[cliffyk]

i have water from a community well that contains dissolved iron , bacterial iron and manganese.
solution : 4 stage treatment - 5 micron particle filter , iron and manganese filter , active carbon filter , water softener -> house.  inside house : under the kitchen sink, reverse osmosis system with remineralizer cartridge feeding a 'drinking water tap , and feeding the refrigerator ice maker. Best tasting water ever.

We have the very much same setup, minus the R.O.

5 micron particle filter--> bacterial iron/maganese filter outside--> active carbon outside, --> tannin filter/softener inside.

Does your iron/manganese filter use chlorine injection? Since this pandemic B.S. we were having a hard time finding gallons of plain ol' 6% household bleach--switched over to 10.15% swimming pool chlorine for $4.50/2.5 gallons from a pool supply place ("Pinch-A-Penny"). I adjusted the dilution for the higher % chlorine, it works better than the household bleach...

[free_electron]

i have water from a community well that contains dissolved iron , bacterial iron and manganese.
solution : 4 stage treatment - 5 micron particle filter , iron and manganese filter , active carbon filter , water softener -> house.  inside house : under the kitchen sink, reverse osmosis system with remineralizer cartridge feeding a 'drinking water tap , and feeding the refrigerator ice maker. Best tasting water ever.

We have the very much same setup, minus the R.O.

5 micron particle filter--> bacterial iron/maganese filter outside--> active carbon outside, --> tannin filter/softener inside.

Does your iron/manganese filter use chlorine injection? Since this pandemic B.S. we were having a hard time finding gallons of plain ol' 6% household bleach--switched over to 10.15% swimming pool chlorine for $4.50/2.5 gallons from a pool supply place ("Pinch-A-Penny"). I adjusted the dilution for the higher % chlorine, it works better than the household bleach...

No. it is a cartridge based system. FM25B by iSpring.

[cliffyk]

i have water from a community well that contains dissolved iron , bacterial iron and manganese.
solution : 4 stage treatment - 5 micron particle filter , iron and manganese filter , active carbon filter , water softener -> house.  inside house : under the kitchen sink, reverse osmosis system with remineralizer cartridge feeding a 'drinking water tap , and feeding the refrigerator ice maker. Best tasting water ever.

We have the very much same setup, minus the R.O.

5 micron particle filter--> bacterial iron/maganese filter outside--> active carbon outside, --> tannin filter/softener inside.

Does your iron/manganese filter use chlorine injection? Since this pandemic B.S. we were having a hard time finding gallons of plain ol' 6% household bleach--switched over to 10.15% swimming pool chlorine for $4.50/2.5 gallons from a pool supply place ("Pinch-A-Penny"). I adjusted the dilution for the higher % chlorine, it works better than the household bleach...

No. it is a cartridge based system. FM25B by iSpring.

Ours is a Pelican WF4...