More audiophool ethernet switch BS

[TomS_]

https://englishelectric.uk/

Apparently it even won an award.

“The degree to which the upper end of the spectrum was cleaned up was quite a revelation, making the tone of voices and instruments far more appealing. It also opened up the soundstage really nicely, increasing its scale and depth.”

Its always about the sound stage. Everything seems to open it up. Just how wide can this supposed stage get? 

[AVGresponding]

Didn't you know? All the world's a stage (Shakespeare, W), so technically, depending on how you look at it, at least 8k miles, or 24k miles.

You might need quite a powerful amp and speaker setup...

[dietert1]

There are lots of uneducated and maybe even educated people in that scene who still live in the past, when streaming digital media was something new and difficult. They think that vinyl sounds better and this may even be based on past experience. Somehow they manage to ignore that nowadays we have near perfect digital transmission of video, even over WLAN and to mobile phones. Streaming audio is peanuts in comparison and standard equipment will do it 100 % correct. This has been true since more than 20 years. But some of those elderly are bored and a bit weak to do anything but buy things, so maybe that kind of marketing works.

Regards, Dieter

[TomS_]

Im loving the fact that apparently a linear power supply is no good for an audio device now:

"Switches require high speed power supplies so we could not opt for a linear power source due to their speed limitations. We set about improving the power signal by using an extremely high-quality wall supply. This clean supply permits an optimum quality network signal, driven by high-accuracy TCXO clock technology."

What ever a high speed power supply is .... Im surprised they would allow switching noise back into their audio stream!

[Haenk]

Im loving the fact that apparently a linear power supply is no good for an audio device now:

"Switches require high speed power supplies so we could not opt for a linear power source due to their speed limitations. We set about improving the power signal by using an extremely high-quality wall supply. This clean supply permits an optimum quality network signal, driven by high-accuracy TCXO clock technology."

What ever a high speed power supply is .... Im surprised they would allow switching noise back into their audio stream!

Esp: "DC IN: 5V DC at 1A"
I wonder how hard it could be to purchase a linear PSU of that "power". (OK, unfortunately, EU standby power consumption laws would require some tricky electronics or primary switch...)

[madires]

OMG! My old 5-port GigE switch came with a classic transformer wall wart. All those years I'm using it with the wrong power supply and never experienced any issues. Must be a special audiophoolery transformer with oxygen free and cryogenically treated copper wire. And I paid only 20-something bucks for it.

PS: I'm still waiting for some company to sell audiophoolery SFPs.

[srb1954]

https://englishelectric.uk/

Apparently it even won an award.

“The degree to which the upper end of the spectrum was cleaned up was quite a revelation, making the tone of voices and instruments far more appealing. It also opened up the soundstage really nicely, increasing its scale and depth.”

Its always about the sound stage. Everything seems to open it up. Just how wide can this supposed stage get? 

I am astounded how the name of English Electric, a company with a long and illustrious engineering history, has come to be associated with this nonsense.

[JohnnyMalaria]

The machined aluminium enclosure offers excellent protection from both acoustic and electrical noise.

[SiliconWizard]

This is a nice one indeed.

Whereas transmitting digital audio through SPDIF (or similar) can suffer from jitter due to transmission - and thus can sometimes benefit from improved transmission - for "streaming" audio through ethernet? Really (Oh and for SPDIF, you can do some kind of "reclocking" on the receiver side to improve jitter, which certainly is much less expensive than using moon-dust-plated cables. )

(What is even funnier is the thought of people streaming lossy-compressed audio through ethernet and buying voodoo cables and voodoo switches. Of course you can stream lossless audio as well, but I'm sure among the customers of these, you'll find some that stream MP3's. )

[Halcyon]

I have to giggle at a mate of mine who spends thousands upon thousands of dollars on expensive amps, DACs and cables made by nude virgins, but then proceeds to stream Spotify to his sound system via Bluetooth.

He has certainly drank the Koolaid, but hey, he is convinced, who am I to tell him he's wrong?

[Haenk]

I always think of carbon door handles and interior design elements for cars - they do absolutely nothing in terms of "performance", but are expensive and nice to look. Pretty much the same concept as those 2000 bucks per audio cable 
(But then these switches are just switches and ugly, and why reclock a CPU for a packet-based protocol?)

[TomS_]

PS: I'm still waiting for some company to sell audiophoolery SFPs.

Please dont give them any more ideas. 

[Halcyon]

PS: I'm still waiting for some company to sell audiophoolery SFPs.

Please dont give them any more ideas. 

Split the profits 3 ways? ;-)

[CJay]

PS: I'm still waiting for some company to sell audiophoolery SFPs.

Please dont give them any more ideas. 

Split the profits 3 ways? ;-)

I've got a pile of redundant 1G SFPs after we upgraded, I reckon if we can gold flash a few and add some field aligned carbon fibre sticky back plastic we might be on a winner?

[Haenk]

I've got a pile of redundant 1G SFPs after we upgraded, I reckon if we can gold flash a few and add some field aligned carbon fibre sticky back plastic we might be on a winner?

Put some high quality bling-bling damping feet one them - then we have a winner 

[bd139]

Oh wow. So basically they rebranded some cheap no brand switch.

I’m tempted to send these guys a box of my recycled Christmas dinner.

[MrMobodies]

edimax ES-

Esp: "DC IN: 5V DC at 1A"
I wonder how hard it could be to purchase a linear PSU of that "power". (OK, unfortunately, EU standby power consumption laws would require some tricky electronics or primary switch...)

The only switch I can find where the DC jack is crammed really close the switch ports, it is also 5v 1a and the shape of the ports look similar with the metal covering over it
Edimax ES-5800G:




I wonder they ordered the same but added that bit of metal over the ports.

Suppose to be "low noise" but enclosure looks plastic and no earthing screw to ground the switch ports.


Actually I just found one with the switchport grounding metal:

Zyxel GS108B:


£19.90 on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/8-Port-Desktop-Gigabit-Ethernet-Switch/dp/B00JCGPGF2?th=1

[CJay]

edimax ES-

Esp: "DC IN: 5V DC at 1A"
I wonder how hard it could be to purchase a linear PSU of that "power". (OK, unfortunately, EU standby power consumption laws would require some tricky electronics or primary switch...)

The only switch I can find where the DC jack is crammed really close the switch ports, it is also 5v 1a and the shape of the ports look similar with the metal covering over it
Edimax ES-5800G:




I wonder they ordered the same but added that bit of metal over the ports.

Suppose to be "low noise" but enclosure looks plastic and no earthing screw to ground the switch ports.

That metalwork is part of the 'harmonica', it's a pretty standard thing, I don't think they've added it but they may have specified it.

**Hahaha, yeah, I think you were editing as I was replying**

Maybe a Zyxel GS108?

https://www.ebuyer.com/731758-zyxel-gs108bv3-8-port-gigabit-desktop-switch-gs-108bv3-gb0101f

[Dreit]

Friend just sent me this today, it's perfect. And blind test on Youtube is.....wtf 

Also I just found this gem - https://chord.co.uk/new-chord-ethernet-cables/

[MrMobodies]

Also I just found this gem - https://chord.co.uk/new-chord-ethernet-cables/

Why do we bother?

Because we can hear that it justifies the extra effort cash.

[Dreit]

I'm still waiting for audiophile access point and player with audiophile network card, so I can blame my ISP for ruining my experience 
I wonder how they could hear difference of network switch, when network card in player is for sure some cheaply made...something.

Also don't forget you can't measure how much better those network cables are, because your oscilloscope probe isn't audiophile certified and any immeasurable load will ruin perfect parameters of this cable!

[madires]

Another audiophoolery ethernet TP cable. How boring! No multimode OM4 yet?

[madires]

It's not just about jitter, packet reordering can occur also (very rarely seen in LANs).

[AkiTaiyo]

Theres a whole forum of fools sucked in by the marketing BS.. Its worth a read just for the complete lack of understanding about how ethernet works and the mis-use of terminology..
https://community.naimaudio.com/t/english-electric-8switch/8345/

Someones making a lot of money from this!

Quote from the forum:

Very happy with my EE switch. It’s provided a blacker background so I can hear deeper into the music plus the tone and timing are just right. Ended up switching to Catsnake 6a floating ethernet cables and sold my Vodka and Cinnamon ethernet cables as they sounded lean compared to the Catsnakes. I also added a Paul Hynes SR4T LPS and it made a substantial improvement over the stock switching power supply. Very happy with this set up!

[CJay]

Theres a whole forum of fools sucked in by the marketing BS.. Its worth a read just for the complete lack of understanding about how ethernet works and the mis-use of terminology..
https://community.naimaudio.com/t/english-electric-8switch/8345/

Holy crap, £517 for an 8 port switch. And the donkey who started that thread is streaming music from a NAS, via two Cisco switches into the 8Switch and then on to other audiophool unicornium BS Mk2 ripoffs.

Honestly, I'm begining to feel I may have missed a trick and would feel no guilt about taking their money if they're that desperate to be conned.

[madires]

It's not just about jitter, packet reordering can occur also (very rarely seen in LANs).

Unless the switch has a really bad frame loss issue, I don't think it contributes to packet reordering.

It's not even the business of an L2 device. The only reason why this can happen is if it takes too long to switch the frame or it just got it lost, so the host has to send another one out of order.

For clarification:
IP: packet reordering
Ethernet: frame reordering

Packet reordering can happen when there are two links used for load balancing. Same for frame reordering, e.g. caused by link aggregation (incompatibilities, different algorithms, etc.).

[KubaSO]

Linear supplies too slow? When a couple years ago you could buy single chip regulators that have >60dB of PSRR at least out to 1MHz, and similar load change rejection (yes I know I’m preaching to the choir, sorry couldn’t help myself). And that’s just buying an off the shelf chip. If one wanted to engineer something better, it’s no problem either, and due to the demands of deeply modulated loads as CPUs go in and out of “nap” modes at 10kHz rates, even stiffer regulators come out all the time. If anything, a switching regulator has inherent sampling and can’t really do much until the inductor current resets, so those have a hard Nyquist limit to their regulation bandwidth even if everything else was perfect. They make them multi-phase for a reason - it’s interleaved sampling just as the cheap digital scopes do to combine slow ADCs into a “fast” one (it also distributes the electrical and thermal lid across multiple devices, which is nice as well). If we were to be anal about it, a 5GHz linear PA in a WiFi router does “regulate” the output voltage at gigahertz rates 😅

[CJay]

Linear supplies too slow? When a couple years ago you could buy single chip regulators that have >60dB of PSRR at least out to 1MHz, and similar load change rejection (yes I know I’m preaching to the choir, sorry couldn’t help myself). And that’s just buying an off the shelf chip. If one wanted to engineer something better, it’s no problem either, and due to the demands of deeply modulated loads as CPUs go in and out of “nap” modes at 10kHz rates, even stiffer regulators come out all the time. If anything, a switching regulator has inherent sampling and can’t really do much until the inductor current resets, so those have a hard Nyquist limit to their regulation bandwidth even if everything else was perfect. They make them multi-phase for a reason - it’s interleaved sampling just as the cheap digital scopes do to combine slow ADCs into a “fast” one (it also distributes the electrical and thermal lid across multiple devices, which is nice as well). If we were to be anal about it, a 5GHz linear PA in a WiFi router does “regulate” the output voltage at gigahertz rates 😅

It's just marketing bullshit because the manufacturer of the cheap crappy switch they're rebadging only supplies a switching PSU with it.

There'll be a 'sonic soundstage upgrade' some time in the future which 'flosses the ears of the listener with cotton buds made entirely from oxygen free angel wings' or some such bollocks.

[Terry Bites]

Shameful brand name theft. It really made by Audio Research Sound Equipment

EE used to be a company that made fighter jets and fires and cookers and stuff?
(pant wetting)

 

[Sal Ammoniac]

Here's another. A real bargain at only $395!

https://fidelizer-audio.com/etherstream-network-switch/

[CJay]

Here's another. A real bargain at only $395!

https://fidelizer-audio.com/etherstream-network-switch/

WTF? They've not even bothered rebranding it properly

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cisco-SG110D-08-EU-8-Port-Gigabit-Desktop/dp/B00UHAZIE6

[srb1954]

Here's another. A real bargain at only $395!

https://fidelizer-audio.com/etherstream-network-switch/

Do you get a copy of the fancy award certificate with your purchase?

I am sure that certificate would account for the extra $300 they charge on top of the Cisco price.

[Haenk]

Do you get a copy of the fancy award certificate with your purchase?

"Positive Feedback Writer" sure sounds like some sketchy Amazon feedback scamming operation

[AkiTaiyo]

I am sure that certificate would account for the extra $300 they charge on top of the Cisco price.

Mods like this can't come cheap, and aren't something any electronics hobbyist could do  (more likely wouldn't do because they would know better)

-Input capacitor upgraded with high capacitance and low impedance tuned for optimal performance
-Safety resistors upgraded with high power from Vishay Dale on DC input stage, power regulation stage, and isolation transformer stage
-Re-energize power supply with special tantalum capacitors to reducing noise and interference in processor chip effectively
-Crystal clock is upgraded with high quality clock from Japan with noise reduction tweaks
-Components are soldered with high quality solder providing solid bass and dynamics

Input cap.. <$0.5
'Safety' resistors <$0.5
'Special' tantalum caps, probably <$2
Japanese clock xtal.. $2
'high quality' solder $1
Bullsh*t "Solid Bass and Dynamics" - $300..

When is someone going to release on of these with a GPSDO as the reference clock?

[CJay]

I am sure that certificate would account for the extra $300 they charge on top of the Cisco price.

When is someone going to release on of these with a GPSDO as the reference clock?

When Rubidium standards were being ripped out of cell base stations and sold as surplus a few years ago there was a small but expensive market in CD player upgrades using Rb standards programmed to whatever the common clock frequency is in CD players, comletely ignoring the fact that the output of a Rb standard is usually not as good for aduio as the cheap crystal oscillator they've replaced.

There have been a couple of whispers of GPSDO boards being used in audio but as an idea it doesn't seem to have taken root yet

[srb1954]

When is someone going to release on of these with a GPSDO as the reference clock?

When Rubidium standards were being ripped out of cell base stations and sold as surplus a few years ago there was a small but expensive market in CD player upgrades using Rb standards programmed to whatever the common clock frequency is in CD players, comletely ignoring the fact that the output of a Rb standard is usually not as good for aduio as the cheap crystal oscillator they've replaced.

There have been a couple of whispers of GPSDO boards being used in audio but as an idea it doesn't seem to have taken root yet

The audiophools will next be claiming that you can only get the ultimate listening experience if all parts of your system are synchronised to a single high quality master clock.

So the obvious next step would to have a brain implant hooked up to the GPSDO to ensure that the listener is also synchonised to that master clock.

[AVGresponding]

Cue the search for the ultimate audiophile clock; a pulsar that we can ship them all off to.

[JPNH20]

In the past six or eight months I started purchasing older valve audio amps and receivers and rebuilding them. Just as a hobby. I enjoy working with the older technology on occasion and some sound nice.

Anyway, this has led me to spend some time on various "audiophile" forums to get schematics yada yada. I've come to suspect that a lot of these people may not have much in their lives other than one upping each other or feeling a sense of superiority by dropping the name of an expensive piece of gear they purchased.

I would open a thread from someone new to the hobby asking for advice on purchasing a basic item like a phono preamp with a budget of $200. The number of I saw people responding with advice like the following:

"I own such and such preamp (lists one that costs $5k) you should just save your pennies nothing under $200 is good" was astonishing. It's like a certain number of "audiophiles" get off by alienating someone new to their world in a stupid display of attention whoring. Audiogon was by far the worst and I can't stomach visiting that forum. The snobbery and the one up manship is just off the charts.

Anyway that's my 2¢ no one asked for.

[JPNH20]

Theres a whole forum of fools sucked in by the marketing BS.. Its worth a read just for the complete lack of understanding about how ethernet works and the mis-use of terminology..
https://community.naimaudio.com/t/english-electric-8switch/8345/

Someones making a lot of money from this!

Quote from the forum:

Very happy with my EE switch. It’s provided a blacker background so I can hear deeper into the music plus the tone and timing are just right. Ended up switching to Catsnake 6a floating ethernet cables and sold my Vodka and Cinnamon ethernet cables as they sounded lean compared to the Catsnakes. I also added a Paul Hynes SR4T LPS and it made a substantial improvement over the stock switching power supply. Very happy with this set up!

Was just reading through the thread and some of those people have got to be schills from the switch company. There's no way anyone is that brainwashed(I hope). Even after being presented with evidence of it being a $30 cheap Chinese switch there's a group of about five users trying to legitimize the markup and get others that are skeptical onboard. Those have to be plants.

[CJay]

Theres a whole forum of fools sucked in by the marketing BS.. Its worth a read just for the complete lack of understanding about how ethernet works and the mis-use of terminology..
https://community.naimaudio.com/t/english-electric-8switch/8345/

Someones making a lot of money from this!

Quote from the forum:

Very happy with my EE switch. It’s provided a blacker background so I can hear deeper into the music plus the tone and timing are just right. Ended up switching to Catsnake 6a floating ethernet cables and sold my Vodka and Cinnamon ethernet cables as they sounded lean compared to the Catsnakes. I also added a Paul Hynes SR4T LPS and it made a substantial improvement over the stock switching power supply. Very happy with this set up!

Was just reading through the thread and some of those people have got to be schills from the switch company. There's no way anyone is that brainwashed(I hope). Even after being presented with evidence of it being a $30 cheap Chinese switch there's a group of about five users trying to legitimize the markup and get others that are skeptical onboard. Those have to be plants.

The one upmanship on the audio forums isn't exclusive to those places, it happens everywhere, a friend of mine contests that anything with two wheels, a chain and pedals that cost under £1000 isn't a bicycle (he is, to be fair to him, half joking) but there are cycling forums where you will be laughed out of the forum if you don't have unicornium based carbon nano tech frame combined with wheels made from quantum foamed dark matter and that cost more than a small 3rd world country's entire education budget.

Same applies to ham radio, to test gear acquisition syndrome, fishing rods, cars, all sorts.

It makes me wonder just how empty their lives are that they have to invent such ludicrous hyperbole to justify their purchase of the latest, greatest BS tech or lose face.

I wonder just how many of the positive reviews are only positive because they don't want to be the one to reveal the emperor isn't wearing the most beautiful new suit and thus lose the favour of the community and manufacturers?

As for posting the info about it being a cheap mass market switch, yeah, they'll never admit they've been conned unless everyone else admits it at the same time because they're terrified of being deemed 'unworthy' of their place in the forums.

All it would take is one alpha member to tell them it's BS and then they'd fall like dominoes.

[dietert1]

Try to find out where the money comes and where it goes. Start considering everything an ad, i mean whenever a brand name is mentioned. Somebody is paying for running forums, guess they can afford contracting influencers.

Regards, Dieter

[Terry Bites]

I wonder where this my mic is bigger than your mic crap started on YouTube. https://www.maxim.com/news/hitler-one-testicle-2015-12

[rgarito]

But of course, the consumers don't know this. All they know was how bad jitter can f*ck your system up in the old days, and they will look for keeping jitter out of every chain of their system, so why not make some money on this?

I think you give them way too much credit!

[CJay]

But of course, the consumers don't know this. All they know was how bad jitter can f*ck your system up in the old days, and they will look for keeping jitter out of every chain of their system, so why not make some money on this?

I think you give them way too much credit!

I think I agree, I think they know how much they were told jitter fucked up theirsystem, but would have a hard time recognising or demonstrating it.

[GridWork]

Also from the same company to go along with the Audio grade ethernet switch:

Audio grade ethernet cable:
https://soundorg.com/sarum-t-streaming-cable/

Only $5000 for a 3 meter cable.

[Daixiwen]

I'm very disappointed in the lack of technical details on the internals of that cable. Of course it's directional because Ethernet packets only go one way.