New powersuply from china ,if you think you saw it all . Unbelievable

[MrMobodies]

I wonder how much effort goes into finding the labels and putting them onto the capacitors.

Doesn't sound to me like it is worth it but it reminds me of a video some years ago when Dave found a dodgy audio system in the dumpster with these Nippon Chemicon and Elna caps that he questioned if they were genuine but I think he captioned later about them being recycled.



EEVblog #671​ - White Van Speaker Scam Teardown 14:48 and 18:44 in the video:

[james_s]

I don't understand why some Chinese sellers bother to re-mark the chips?  I would happily buy recycled unmodified chips...   they are doing a lot of work for nothing, in fact they make it less likely that any of us buy their otherwise good stuff when we have to spend a lot of time testing for idiots in the supply chain.

But by that time they'll have your money already, it will by someone else's sales that will suffer and reputation degrade. It's not like we don't have that same mentality in this country, lots of people are self centered and short term thinkers. They do what is in their own best interest now, regardless of how it hurts them or others in the long run.

[SilverSolder]

I don't understand why some Chinese sellers bother to re-mark the chips?  I would happily buy recycled unmodified chips...   they are doing a lot of work for nothing, in fact they make it less likely that any of us buy their otherwise good stuff when we have to spend a lot of time testing for idiots in the supply chain.

But by that time they'll have your money already, it will by someone else's sales that will suffer and reputation degrade. It's not like we don't have that same mentality in this country, lots of people are self centered and short term thinkers. They do what is in their own best interest now, regardless of how it hurts them or others in the long run.

They don't have the money, though...  if people raise a case on eBay it will be granted instantly...

Perhaps not enough people catch it and complain, making it worthwhile overall...

[vk6zgo]

How did they solder aluminium wire in the first place ? Aluminium creates an oxide film on its surface which prevents soldering. Flux for aluminium ?

Ask Joseph Lucas!

[vk6zgo]

Crap work happens "in the best of families!"

When I was, for a time, the Electronics Tech at the Chemistry Dept of the University of Western Australia, we had a German built NMR device which incorporated a "RF generator" (actually a transmitter) which, from memory, produced 300watts at around 60MHz.

This device had an interesting fault, in that, every now & then, it started out at full power, as normal, then gradually faded away, making accurate NMR tests impossible.

On investigation, it appeared to have been worked on previously, but none of the parts that had been looked at seemed to have been the cause of the fault.

It turned out that the UWA had obtained it for a reduced, but still substantial price, from the importer, after it had been returned by another institution where it was somehow "no longer needed".
After looking at all the "usual suspects", I was left with the Vcc power supply connection to the RF PCB.
This was bypassed to ground with two sizeable electrolytics in parallel with a couple of much smaller value ceramics.

At first sight, all looked well, but I decided the electros were worth a closer look.

I was ready to assume they were both the same value, but thought "Better check".
One was mounted with the label side facing the metal chassis (they were axial caps), but by dint of a little "butchery", I was able to turn it enough to read the value.

To my surprise, the case of the electrolytic had a "bloody great dent" right where the label was.
Removing that cap, & digging around amongst the random, dusty capacitor spares I found a rather scruffy looking, but suitable, replacement, & all was well.

The question now arises------how did a reputable company allow something like this out of the factory, especially as it looked like there had been a deliberate attempt to conceal the capacitor damage?

"Friday night" or "Monday morning" production run?
Somebody leaving  & making an "up yours" statement?
Who knows?

[M4trix]

Ok, ok guys. I asked a silly question. Btw, where can I delete my account ? 

* M4trix embarrassed... 

[james_s]

They don't have the money, though...  if people raise a case on eBay it will be granted instantly...

Perhaps not enough people catch it and complain, making it worthwhile overall...

Only a small number of people get around to putting in a claim, and that relies on them having the knowledge to realize that the thing they bought is crap. It only has to work for a few weeks to get past the window where a refund can be requested since the first month can be consumed by shipping.

[chickenHeadKnob]

This one nearly cost me a keyboard, as I was sipping coffee while watching: 




 

Caption competition time!

Okay, I don't see the problem here. This is one of those non-binary gender fluid capacitors living its best life. Use the proper pro-nouns when addressing

[schmitt trigger]

Never mind, sorry

[BrokenYugo]

I wonder how much effort goes into finding the labels and putting them onto the capacitors.

You can probably buy them at the same place that sells the fake Panasonic 18650 sleeves.

[noobiedoobie]

This one nearly cost me a keyboard, as I was sipping coffee while watching: 




 

   

Hilarious!!!
Just wow!

[noobiedoobie]

I got screwed once buying a box of CAT5e that turned out to be copperclad aluminum. It did say "CCA" on the box but it didn't even occur to me that's what it that meant. It also clearly said CAT5e and the CAT5 spec mandates copper wire.

Well Technically the electrons flow only on the surface and not in the core so Its very ingenious on their part to have done it.
 

[madires]

The demand for cheap stuff is fulfilled by producing and selling cheap junk. But the cheating - often also resulting in dangerous products - seems to be a Chinese tradition (some do that, not all).

[james_s]

I got screwed once buying a box of CAT5e that turned out to be copperclad aluminum. It did say "CCA" on the box but it didn't even occur to me that's what it that meant. It also clearly said CAT5e and the CAT5 spec mandates copper wire.

Well Technically the electrons flow only on the surface and not in the core so Its very ingenious on their part to have done it.
 

Only for high frequency. Unfortunately I needed PoE and in that application the higher resistance of CCA substantially increases the losses. It's also less durable and more prone to breakage if it gets flexed. Bottom line is if it's not copper all the way through, it's not CAT5e.

[noobiedoobie]

I got screwed once buying a box of CAT5e that turned out to be copperclad aluminum. It did say "CCA" on the box but it didn't even occur to me that's what it that meant. It also clearly said CAT5e and the CAT5 spec mandates copper wire.

Well Technically the electrons flow only on the surface and not in the core so Its very ingenious on their part to have done it.
 

Only for high frequency. Unfortunately I needed PoE and in that application the higher resistance of CCA substantially increases the losses. It's also less durable and more prone to breakage if it gets flexed. Bottom line is if it's not copper all the way through, it's not CAT5e.

I know! I was only joking

[jonnyGURU]

The demand for cheap stuff is fulfilled by producing and selling cheap junk. But the cheating - often also resulting in dangerous products - seems to be a Chinese tradition (some do that, not all).

I'm not ready to "blame China" since 99% of the SMPS come out of China. 

But there are a number of suppliers there that used "recycled materials" to manufacture their parts and that's where you run into issues.

[dietert1]

We have seen that Watt is an inflationary currency for a long time in the audio sector. So now it happens with SMPS. Maybe it happened years ago with PC power supplies named for 800 W that were good for 300 W only.
Once you know, you can just apply some derating factor, e.g. 10. Maybe that so-called 600 W china branded supply could survive 60 W continuous load. I mean 5 A is already something, isn't it?  If you really want 50 A continuous, don't buy $ 23 chinaware. Everybody knows it is impossible.

Regards, Dieter

PS: By the way, operation of those simple-minded supplies without PFC at power levels above 200 W or so is illegal  in many western countries.

[madires]

The typical derating factor is 2-3.

[SilverSolder]

Yes, we should really have a thread here on the EEVblog similar to the multimeter one, where the supplies can be tested / rated / commented on - so we can reward the good suppliers with our business, and avoid the bad ones!

[BrokenYugo]

I don't think there is a need for such complex analysis like with the meters. It seems that all these cheap off brand supplies are at minimum poorly assembled from partially recycled parts, and sometimes outright overrated. I guess probably because the BOM cost would otherwise be more than the $20-$30 the finished product gets listed for on ebay. I suspect the answer after any investigation will be the same it is now, buy a surplus server supply for 12V, Meanwell from authorized distributor for other voltages.

I'll hazard a guess that since industry in general is full of these things there must be some company(s) in China building decent ones out of reputable parts, but at that point they aren't going to cost $30 delivered. As an example, Mouser sells the Mean Well SE-600 line for $74-$90 qty 1 depending on voltage, can a 600W SMPS module really be built legitimately and sold for less?

[SilverSolder]

I actually don't mind stuff being made out of recycled parts, if it is for a non-critical hobby project and is fixable if it blows - what's not to like about saving $$$?

Harder to justify using subpar stuff in a commercial product, though...

[BrokenYugo]

I somewhat agree with that, I have one of these cheap supplies, I think I paid $20 for 12V/20A, and it's done many hours near full load without issue. The problem wasn't really the fake/recycled high voltage electrolytics or probably used transistors, it was the damn thing was full of solder balls, the heatsink attachment was half-assed, the transformer core rattled and buzzed under load, and this thing was sold as ready to run with all those problems. I knew I was buying a kit, but I'm sure many dont check such things or know how and let the smoke out or worse.

[james_s]

I actually don't mind stuff being made out of recycled parts, if it is for a non-critical hobby project and is fixable if it blows - what's not to like about saving $$$?

Harder to justify using subpar stuff in a commercial product, though...

If I know it's made of recycled parts, sure. I don't want to pay for a new product and get one made of recycled parts though. I recycle parts frequently for my own projects, although I rarely use recycled electrolytic capacitors unless I need to repair something and don't have the correct new part on hand.

[SilverSolder]

[...]  I knew I was buying a kit [...]

That's pretty much how to look at it, I think.  If it works without issue the first time, it is just a bonus.  That has happened to me a few times with cheapo stuff.  Sometimes, though, things can be so bad they are not worth the effort of fixing. 

For example, I purchased a cheap heat gun that turned out to be designed for 220V, so it never gave more than 1/4 of the heat it was supposed to on 115V...  all they had done was put a new plug on the cable for 115V, nothing else!   I opened it up with the expectation that it was probably designed so it could be modified (heater elements in parallel instead of series, that kind of thing) but no... it turned out it was impractical to rearrange the heater elements.  The eBay return policy is good in such cases!  "Not as described" - the listing clearly says 115V, but the label on the item clearly says 220V!

[vk6zgo]

The demand for cheap stuff is fulfilled by producing and selling cheap junk. But the cheating - often also resulting in dangerous products - seems to be a Chinese tradition (some do that, not all).

I have a theory, which is probably wrong, but which tends to fit the observed problem.

I wonder if, back in the day, when, the only real customer for electronics, & other technically advanced products was the Chinese Government, some people may have purposely made crap stuff as a way of "sticking it to the Man"----------not a wise path in those harsher times.

Perhaps this hit a popular vein, as a (slightly) safer way of protesting against the govt for any perceived wrongs.
This slowly became imbedded in popular culture, until it is regarded by many in that country & out as "tradition", even though the customers are now spread throughout the world.

Looking at the tradition of China over hundreds of years, of high quality products, & mighty engineering achievments, I find it hard to believe that making crap is really a tradition.