Author Topic: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES  (Read 38209 times)

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Offline james_s

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #125 on: November 04, 2021, 08:51:55 pm »
The Air Conditioners which offer themselves as WIFI networks seem to not do anything----they certainly don't give you access to the Internet..
My iPad is quite happy to connect to them however----W10 not so.

I think you could control such Airconds, if you had the right "App" for them, but without it, they are useless, which is probably why they don't bother using a password.
It seems to me, that they can't connect to the internet, except, perhaps through your device (again, if you have the "App").

Typically they have some method of authenticating once you install the app. Other things present themselves as an access point so you can connect to them and configure them to connect to your wifi network at which point they become a client. I recently installed a furnace for my brother that has bluetooth built in, there is an app intended for technicians to use that allows you to configure various parameters, override the thermostat for testing and setup purposes, and view various statistics and error codes. I'm not sure I'm a huge fan of that setup but I have to admit it made setting things up very easy. In the case of the furnace it shows a code on a display on the control board that you have to enter to connect so you're not likely to have a neighbor mucking with your furnace.
 

Offline Ranayna

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2021, 01:20:15 pm »
Related but may not not be directly to your point.  (I think there might have been another thread on this topic already)

Samsung remotely disabled TV sets looted during looting-riot(s) in South Africa.  So, Internet connected or not, they could get in - presumably via another Samsung (or partner) devices...
-OR-
These devices require some form of activation.

Reference:
thesouthafrican.com: "Samsung disabling all looted televisions with remote blocking technology"
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/technology/samsung-disabling-all-looted-televisions-with-remote-blocking-technology-20-august-2021/

This is very likely just using normal everyday connectivity over WiFi. Maybe the TV will automatically connect to an open WiFi without user interaction, but that is unlikely.
I think that 99% of people who buy such a TV just connect it to their WiFi, without really thinking about any consequences that may have. I suspect that, without ever having used a Samsung TV, that on first setup the TV *highly* recommends to connect. It may even *force* the users to connect to continue the setup, like Windows 11 Home Edition does now.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2021, 05:56:42 pm »
Just a thought about claims such as "what kind of harm a small appliance such as a fridge or TV could do anyway through an internet access": the greatest threats often come from the things we don't suspect, because precisely, we are not on guard.

If anything, a connected TV could just constantly send information about  when it's on, when it's off, what you're watching - which is privacy invasion, but could also be worse than this if said information gets into the wrong hands. Same for a fridge. Do you want it to send to severs when you're opening it or not, and for how long, for instance? All of this is dead easy once they have an internet connection.

And, just add some microphones to them, and you could additionally have your conversations spied without you knowing.

Do not for one minute think this would never happen, would not interest anyone anyway, and vendors would take all due care to make all this very safe. It's a delusion.

 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2021, 06:15:43 pm »
Not to mention that they can be a bridge onto other devices on the local network. You don't need a PC to infect other kit, and imagine if your fridge encrypted your photos on that NAS and then demanded a ransom. Or took over DHCP duties so it could inject false DNS data, route all outbound traffic through itself to wiretap your net, etc.


 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #129 on: November 05, 2021, 11:02:18 pm »
With refrigerators, I can see manufacturers can readily justify the convenience of having a camera inside looking at every shelf.  They will advertise it as: "You can see you are running low on milk and beer at home while you are in your office, and purchase more on your way home"  or just "click here and we will have resupply delivered to your door."

With a camera, everyone who has access will know you are eating too much red-meat, drink too much beer, whatever else...  In the future, what that convenience may also bring you: a warning from government healthcare agency because your eating habits negatively affects your health and you may need to pay an additional healthcare surcharge.

Those "smart road signs" were installed to tell you about traffic and weather condition affecting the driving.  These days, you can hardly drive by those "smart road signs" without them telling you "drive safely".  Do they really think most drivers intentionally wants to be unsafe?  We pay our tax dollars for the signs expecting the convenience of knowing about traffic condition.  Instead, we installed a mean for government to nag you.  Heck, if I just want someone to nag me, I can get my wife to do it for free.

Given power, they will abuse it - manufacturers, or governments.
 

Online David Hess

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #130 on: November 06, 2021, 02:32:56 am »
Not to mention that they can be a bridge onto other devices on the local network. You don't need a PC to infect other kit, and imagine if your fridge encrypted your photos on that NAS and then demanded a ransom. Or took over DHCP duties so it could inject false DNS data, route all outbound traffic through itself to wiretap your net, etc.

Use a VLAN properly and every smart device will think it is the only thing on the network.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #131 on: November 06, 2021, 09:27:17 am »
Quote
Use a VLAN properly...

Glad that fixes it for you. For the other 7b people, though...
 

Offline Rick Law

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #132 on: November 06, 2021, 08:43:48 pm »
Not to mention that they can be a bridge onto other devices on the local network. You don't need a PC to infect other kit, and imagine if your fridge encrypted your photos on that NAS and then demanded a ransom. Or took over DHCP duties so it could inject false DNS data, route all outbound traffic through itself to wiretap your net, etc.

Use a VLAN properly and every smart device will think it is the only thing on the network.

For simplicity in writing, say it is a Samsung WiFi enabled refrigerator (as that was what I was considering).  Substitute any device manufacturer, it would be the same.

If it can't get to the net, it would simply connect via other access points - your neighbor may be using a Samsung phone or TV, either of them could have been equipped to communicate with other Samsung devices.

Besides other Samsung devices, most ISPs have nation-wide WiFi.  Anywhere they have a commercial or residential cable modem installation, that is a spot where the ISP can install an additional (physical or logical) access point to support their nation-wide WiFi.  Samsung could be a customer so access points are fairly readily available.

Then of course there is the Amazon Sidewalk the likes that Google/Microsoft will like have.  Just ink a deal with Microsoft/Amazon/Google and you can tag on to their nation-wide network paid for by Echo/Alexa/Google-Assist type devices owners.  Anyone with an Andriod phone could become a conduit, if not now, may be later.

Amazon Sidewalk (and the likes) is a case and point how given the means, they will abuse it, eventually.  One can hope government would pass a law to prevent such abuse, but then governments often are the abuser as well.

For now, I must take the law in my own hands - I will not give them the means.  Come to think of it, I am Rick law - that is I am a Law.  So this Law is fighting abuse at least for myself.

Quote
Use a VLAN properly...

Glad that fixes it for you. For the other 7b people, though...

And, in my humble way if I am ever humble, hoping to set an example for the other 7 billion people....
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #133 on: November 06, 2021, 10:01:55 pm »
Not to mention that they can be a bridge onto other devices on the local network. You don't need a PC to infect other kit, and imagine if your fridge encrypted your photos on that NAS and then demanded a ransom. Or took over DHCP duties so it could inject false DNS data, route all outbound traffic through itself to wiretap your net, etc.

Use a VLAN properly and every smart device will think it is the only thing on the network.

For simplicity in writing, say it is a Samsung WiFi enabled refrigerator (as that was what I was considering).  Substitute any device manufacturer, it would be the same.

If it can't get to the net, it would simply connect via other access points - your neighbor may be using a Samsung phone or TV, either of them could have been equipped to communicate with other Samsung devices.

Besides other Samsung devices, most ISPs have nation-wide WiFi.  Anywhere they have a commercial or residential cable modem installation, that is a spot where the ISP can install an additional (physical or logical) access point to support their nation-wide WiFi.  Samsung could be a customer so access points are fairly readily available.

Then of course there is the Amazon Sidewalk the likes that Google/Microsoft will like have.  Just ink a deal with Microsoft/Amazon/Google and you can tag on to their nation-wide network paid for by Echo/Alexa/Google-Assist type devices owners.  Anyone with an Andriod phone could become a conduit, if not now, may be later.

Amazon Sidewalk (and the likes) is a case and point how given the means, they will abuse it, eventually.  One can hope government would pass a law to prevent such abuse, but then governments often are the abuser as well.

For now, I must take the law in my own hands - I will not give them the means.  Come to think of it, I am Rick law - that is I am a Law.  So this Law is fighting abuse at least for myself.

Quote
Use a VLAN properly...

Glad that fixes it for you. For the other 7b people, though...

And, in my humble way if I am ever humble, hoping to set an example for the other 7 billion people....


I have to say, I fully support your sentiment.  When everything is cross-wired to the Internet, you will have zero privacy...   we already have zero privacy on the road or at the office,  can't we at least be left alone in our homes, FFS?

 

Offline MrMobodies

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #134 on: November 06, 2021, 10:41:54 pm »
Just trying to install a HP print driver for a phone in the play store. Around the top of the list searching for HP printer  from HP was "HP Smart". Installed it and has all these tiles in there, advertising for ink but I couldn't find anywhere to put the IP address in as I have my printers on a different network past the firewall. I thought this is useless and uninstalled it.

Looking down at the listing then I found HP enterprise and some other one both which looked like cloud printing.

Then further down something I see "Hp printing service app" and on opening I was presented with this a stupid three page thing or lecture I think it was about installing and using  the "SMART APP" instead. I found the option to put in the printer IP address manually but I couldn't find out why it refused print at first giving me this message that "Next time when adding printers choose WIFI direct and joined directly" Bullshit! Why would I want to do that in this setup. I'd ticked don't show again and it looped into a number of prompts to join it in WIFI direct. Obviously I selected the wrong button and I think after I pressed cancel and it started to behave and print.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 10:46:38 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #135 on: November 18, 2021, 07:25:34 pm »
I’ve got an idea 💡

Let’s bundle Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos and  Sunbaked Pecan (or whatever the Google CEO is called) into Bezos’ rocket, together with some power tools and a few hundred thousand tons of building materials, and send them to Mars, where they can make a head start on colonising it, whilst conveniently giving us all a break from their egocentric nonsense. 😁

LOL well, life on Earth would be more boring if we didn't have our eccentrics to brighten our days!   :-DD

Don't confuse the sociopaths enumerated above with standard eccentrics.
 

Offline eti

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #136 on: January 04, 2022, 06:13:20 am »
Engineers, scientists and academics ONLY, should have internet access. Everyone else should have been left with pen, paper and basic GSM phones.

I'm sorta joking, but the dumbing down and reduction in quality of this technology is because consumers are clueless cheapskates. If course, we can't go back now, but look how contented we all were before the corporate exploiters took over and packaged everything into consumer toys.
 
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Offline eti

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #137 on: January 04, 2022, 06:15:48 am »
As for "smart" anything, there's only one smart thing about this day and age, and that's completely avoiding all "smart" trash.
 
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Online SilverSolder

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #138 on: January 04, 2022, 10:41:33 pm »
Engineers, scientists and academics ONLY, should have internet access. Everyone else should have been left with pen, paper and basic GSM phones.

I'm sorta joking, but the dumbing down and reduction in quality of this technology is because consumers are clueless cheapskates. If course, we can't go back now, but look how contented we all were before the corporate exploiters took over and packaged everything into consumer toys.

I guess there's still room for a "non-consumer Internet" like e.g. the Eevblog!  :D
 

Offline eti

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2022, 08:31:36 pm »
Alexa 🤦🤦🤦🤦 I said *THREE TIMES, SLOW AND CLEAR* "Alexa, volume 7" (I'm listening live so it's important) 3/3 times it *REFUSED* to do it before it had proudly announced "I'm 7 years old today, woohoo!" Alexa, shut up and follow my instructions, or you'll meet an untimely death with a hammer, wasting my time with this crap.
 
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Online PartialDischarge

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #140 on: January 24, 2022, 09:58:52 am »
This thread is so interesting, how can ppl be so naive:

https://twitter.com/AlinaUtrata/status/1485194962027388929?s=20

 

Offline eti

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #141 on: January 26, 2022, 06:34:41 am »
This thread is so interesting, how can ppl be so naive:

https://twitter.com/AlinaUtrata/status/1485194962027388929?s=20

It’s too easy for us to maybe forget that the “every man” doesn’t understand, or care, about the inner machinations of the “smart” toys they own and use. It’s worse that the companies exploit this naivete, and not the customers fault that they do so. Many of my friends and family look at this stuff as “woooh wooh” <wavy hands> “that’s too complicated for me”. They just follow trends.

Because they have no knowledge or experience upon which to form a solid opinion, and wouldn’t know what search terms  to use (without falling foul of the media nonsense, or the so-called YouTube reviewer “experts”) they’re basically lambs to the slaughter. It’s disgusting.
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #142 on: January 26, 2022, 03:23:55 pm »
This thread is so interesting, how can ppl be so naive:

https://twitter.com/AlinaUtrata/status/1485194962027388929?s=20

It’s too easy for us to maybe forget that the “every man” doesn’t understand, or care, about the inner machinations of the “smart” toys they own and use. It’s worse that the companies exploit this naivete, and not the customers fault that they do so. Many of my friends and family look at this stuff as “woooh wooh” <wavy hands> “that’s too complicated for me”. They just follow trends.

Because they have no knowledge or experience upon which to form a solid opinion, and wouldn’t know what search terms  to use (without falling foul of the media nonsense, or the so-called YouTube reviewer “experts”) they’re basically lambs to the slaughter. It’s disgusting.

There used to be "Consumer Reports" type magazines and TV programmes,  these have been well and truly squeezed out these days...
 

Offline TimFox

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #143 on: January 26, 2022, 06:35:46 pm »
"Consumer Reports" magazine (US) is still in publication as a mailed paper magazine.
Unfortunately, they seem to have moved their more detailed reports to their website, available to subscribers.
 

Online SilverSolder

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #144 on: January 26, 2022, 07:41:45 pm »
"Consumer Reports" magazine (US) is still in publication as a mailed paper magazine.
Unfortunately, they seem to have moved their more detailed reports to their website, available to subscribers.

I was a subscriber a few years ago, but found the content disappointing - lacking teeth!
 

Offline neil555

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #145 on: January 27, 2022, 07:12:19 pm »
More Smart TV bad news  :palm:

https://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/22/01/27/1518249/lg-announces-new-ad-targeting-features-for-tvs

For anyone wanting to avoid this crap I can heartily recommend the NEC Multisync E series displays, The 43" 4K model (E438) is around £500 and they also have 49/55 and 65 inch versions.
 
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Offline eti

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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #147 on: March 21, 2022, 11:41:11 pm »
More Smart TV bad news  :palm:

https://entertainment.slashdot.org/story/22/01/27/1518249/lg-announces-new-ad-targeting-features-for-tvs

For anyone wanting to avoid this crap I can heartily recommend the NEC Multisync E series displays, The 43" 4K model (E438) is around £500 and they also have 49/55 and 65 inch versions.

Thanks for the tip, those are available for around 690 EUR over here, which is pretty good, with an IPS panel.
 

Online free_electron

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #148 on: March 21, 2022, 11:56:10 pm »
Engineers, scientists and academics ONLY, should have internet access. Everyone else should have been left with pen, paper and basic GSM phones.

I'm sorta joking, but the dumbing down and reduction in quality of this technology is because consumers are clueless cheapskates. If course, we can't go back now, but look how contented we all were before the corporate exploiters took over and packaged everything into consumer toys.
AND ELECTRONICS HOBBYISTS... DON;T FORGET THOSE.
that was my biggest frustration as a teenager. getting my hands on databooks. and development software ( 1980's... very slim pickings)
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline Circlotron

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Re: NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES
« Reply #149 on: March 22, 2022, 02:10:26 am »
Engineers, scientists and academics ONLY, should have internet access. Everyone else should have been left with pen, paper and basic GSM phones.

I'm sorta joking, but the dumbing down and reduction in quality of this technology is because consumers are clueless cheapskates. If course, we can't go back now, but look how contented we all were before the corporate exploiters took over and packaged everything into consumer toys.
Imagine how much better the world would be if all social media apps were Linux only. And only available in source code.  :-DD
 


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