NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES

[james_s]

No. There's no obligation for every device to have an alphanumeric display that say exactly what you want. That would be counterintuitive and needlessly complicate machines that don't need them, like a fridge (barring actual "smart" fridges with the full computer in the door like Samsung), or a microwave oven, exc. Error codes have existed since the dawn of the computers and are not "cryptic" if you can simply look up what they mean, especially with the internet.

The problem is when companies hide the error codes from the public deliberately, then it becomes a problem. I encourage you to look into the Taylor ice cream machine scandal, one of the biggest right-to-repair issues currently going on.

EDIT: The fridge in question might have a full color display panel, if that's the case, yeah, should display words, but the rest of the argument still stands if the info is readily available, it's not an issue.

"Smart" to me implies either an advanced display, or internet connectivity, either one of which could be used to tell you exactly what is wrong. Cryptic error messages are one of my pet peeves, especially when they are not well documented. I would have thought that after the Therac-25 fiasco every engineer out there would understand the importance of clear and documented error messages. If something connects to the internet and or has an app there is no reason not to just have it tell you exactly what the error message is trying to indicate.

[AVGresponding]

Digital tech isn't the problem and calling normal stuff "smart devices" is ignoring the modern term which appears to only refer to IOT. Just wanting machines to devolve is ignoring the fundamental issues such as planned obselescance, right to repair, exc. They could build a modern EM washer and dryer...it would still be crap and use proprietary parts.

It's a lot harder to make basic electro-mechanical proprietary parts that can't be copied by third party manufacturers. These parts are also a lot easier to repair, using the most basic of techniques which almost anyone can employ.

It's a lot easier for manufacturers to include planned obsolescence with MCUs, as they are much harder to reverse engineer and require specialist knowledge and tools, and you can brick a device that is mechanically sound with ease.

[Bassman59]

It’s the same with web design user-interface and ‘cloud’ services.

Most of them are spec’ed by managers aiming to lift the bottom line into profit, while the implementation is being done by first & second year graduates  in Java and python  using ‘the latest’ web tools.

Unfortunately, none of them have heard of usability or human factors design.
They’re only looking at profit centres, cost centres are so 80s.

My problem with any "cloud based" IoT thing is not that it depends on the cloud, per se, but that the vendors offer "Cloud connectivity! Turn your lights on from anywhere in the world!" for free and then they realize, "holy shit! We spend a fuck-ton of money for Amazon Web Services and that costs more than what we make on the sale of the hardware, so now we have to tell our customers that they need to pay $5 per month to continue to use the product! And they're all like, 'the thing costs $25, fuck it, it's going in the trash' and NOW WHAT?"

I have a Wink power strip (with an Electric Imp IoT thing in it) and there's no way to access it without the Wink cloud service which they realized was a cost sink so they started charging for it. Thankfully the two switchable outlets have actual buttons for control, so it still works as a power strip. But there are other things, like whatever Lowe's was pushing, that just shut down and all of the hardware was useless.

The only IoT devices I can think of which do not require cloud access, in fact do not even offer such capability, are the IKEA Tradfri products. You can even use them without a smartphone, as the controls (switches, dials) pair with the device (light bulb, switch) directly. To get smartphone control you have to buy the hub. And even then there's no direct way to control them over the internet; if you use Apple HomeKit you can configure something to be a HomeKit hub (separate from the Tradfri hub) and then allow internet access through that. Which I don't do, because I don't need to turn on the lights for the cats when I'm away from the house.

oh yeah, the Ikea products just work. And they're half the price of the Belkin shit.

[fourfathom]

At least our generations grew up with the internet and computers. Sure "fads" come and go and we all get "old fashioned", but actual tech progress isn't a fad...it's inevidable.

But my Boomer generation INVENTED computers (*) and the internet.

 (*) "Modern" computers, anyway.  The Eniac etc. were before my time.  We all stand on the shoulders of giants!

[SilverSolder]

You really have to keep your wits about you these days, if you want to buy a product that doesn't "self obsolete" way before it is mechanically worn out...

Anything cloud connected that doesn't need to be?  Just say no...

[Neilm]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

[james_s]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

That's definitely asking too much.

[xrunner]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

That's definitely asking too much.

Before being allowed to take the thing home, you have to prove you are smarter than the washing machine. 

[Stray Electron]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

  If the users were smart, then they'd refuse to buy so called Smart devices.  The fact that people do buy smart devices shows proves that they're basically stupid but want to pretend that they're somehow smart.

[fourfathom]

I'm so old I remember when "my toaster runs unix" was just a silly joke.

[Bassman59]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

  If the users were smart, then they'd refuse to buy so called Smart devices.  The fact that people do buy smart devices shows proves that they're basically stupid but want to pretend that they're somehow smart.

When all of the products on offer are "Smart" and you need to get something immediately to replace a device that failed, what are ya gonna do?

[TimFox]

I thought that “IOT” meant “internet of toasters”.

[Caliaxy]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

Well, it might not be an actual choice but a lack of alternative.

In my case, I bought the LG fridge based on it’s size (had to fit into a constrained space between and under the kitchen cabinets), appearance & ergonomics (French doors are a joy to use, and so is the drawer-freezer at the bottom) and the size of the water dispencer/ice-maker (small, so it doesn’t occupy half of the door storage space). Only two models fit the requirements: a General Electric (which I favored) and an LG (which wife favored). I’m not stupid, so we got the LG. 

Integrated wifi capability wasn’t on my list, it just happened to be there. Thinking about it, it’s not actually a bad idea. The service technician can diagnose the issues over the internet and come prepared with the right parts and tools (wasn’t the case, I fixed it myself with my bare hands, screw driver and Fluke 87V , using the fridge self-diagnosing feature; offline, of course – I don’t need LG to know how often I change the air filter). But not everybody is tech-savvy.

For what it matters, the LG is made in China and the GE is “Proudly made in America” (according to a big sticker on the door), but I doubt that makes any difference since GE is now a Chinese company (they were acquired by Haier a few years ago) and the innards might come from the same factories anyways.

As far as the hood is concerned, I wanted something as silent as possible, with an as high as possible CFM (cubic feet per minute) number, which could be easily converted between recirculating and outside venting modes. I wasn’t after a glass-touch panel, blue tooth and dimming lights, it just happened to come with them.

Of course, I haven’t connected it with the stove because I was afraid it might talk to the dishwasher behind my fridge’s back and I don’t want my coffee maker to feel left out an get upset in the morning when I need it the most. 

[SL4P]

“I’m smart…”
If they have to tell you they’re smart, they’re probably not.
It soon becomes obvious.

[Stray Electron]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

  If the users were smart, then they'd refuse to buy so called Smart devices.  The fact that people do buy smart devices shows proves that they're basically stupid but want to pretend that they're somehow smart.

When all of the products on offer are "Smart" and you need to get something immediately to replace a device that failed, what are ya gonna do?

  Buy used.  Craigslist is a good place to start.

[james_s]

Before we get smart appliances, can we get smart users?

  If the users were smart, then they'd refuse to buy so called Smart devices.  The fact that people do buy smart devices shows proves that they're basically stupid but want to pretend that they're somehow smart.

Jokes aside, I don't really think that's a fair assessment. There are a lot of intelligent people that are not technical. My mom is a good example of that, she's very intelligent, college educated, taught calculus, algebra, trig, and other topics for years and has run a business as a private tutor for about the last 20 years. She is absolutely hopeless with technology though, I'm constantly going over there doing trivial things like plugging the cable into the printer or showing her how to reboot her phone. She's not stupid at all but I would never get her a "smart" appliance, I'd be getting support calls every other day

[MrMobodies]

One thing I can't stand is when these appliances are set to make decisions where the developer thinks they know better than me and deny me access to settings or adjustments that I could set before.

I'll only complement it "smart" when it is worthy of what I want it to do automatically where adjustments and thresholds and every other aspect could be set to my satisfaction.

[SilverSolder]

One thing I can't stand is when these appliances are set to make decisions where the developer thinks they know better than me and deny me access to settings or adjustments that I could set before.

I'll only complement it "smart" when it is worthy of what I want it to do automatically where adjustments and thresholds and every other aspect could be set to my satisfaction.

True,  in some cases "smart" really means "dumbed down". 

My general feeling is that when the primary goal of the product is tracking you for advertising purposes, I really can't get excited about it - no matter how good it is in other respects, including getting "smart" right.

[Cyberdragon]

Digital tech isn't the problem and calling normal stuff "smart devices" is ignoring the modern term which appears to only refer to IOT. Just wanting machines to devolve is ignoring the fundamental issues such as planned obselescance, right to repair, exc. They could build a modern EM washer and dryer...it would still be crap and use proprietary parts.

It's a lot harder to make basic electro-mechanical proprietary parts that can't be copied by third party manufacturers. These parts are also a lot easier to repair, using the most basic of techniques which almost anyone can employ.

It's a lot easier for manufacturers to include planned obsolescence with MCUs, as they are much harder to reverse engineer and require specialist knowledge and tools, and you can brick a device that is mechanically sound with ease.

Really? You don't think they'de figure it out? I mean sure, it's easier to hide behind code, but they could just put a bunch of relays on a board and hide it in a black epoxy filled box, with numbered wires all the same color.

[james_s]

It's not like the functions that control a typical piece of white goods are that complex. The average "maker" with an Arduino could probably implement the code to control a dishwasher, washing machine or clothes dryer's basic functions without too much difficulty.

[David Hess]

Everything has a microprocessor, been that way for at least 20 years! Don't like it?

What part of "has a microprocessor" means that the interface should use low contrast gray on gray, or bright blue LED indicators?

Modern appliances are failures of human factors engineering.  Some of these "improvements" like monostable shifters have killed people.

[james_s]

That low contrast gray on slightly darker gray thing seems to have spread everywhere. It's like someone took the guidelines for the minimum contrast ratio and interpreted it as the recommended contrast ratio and used it everywhere. I remember an old laptop I had with a less than spectacular display, I couldn't even read the text on some sites.

[MazeFrame]

See I would consider that a complete fail. A "smart" device that displays a cryptic error code? Why didn't it just display "fault detected with freezer automatic defrost system" or something along those lines? What good is all that smart stuff if you still have to search online to figure out what the error code means? Frankly I think there is no excuse for error codes when the device has the ability to communicate something human readable.

Yup! What is the point in having a full color touch display when it has the same functionality as a basic beeper or blink code LED?

[AVGresponding]

Digital tech isn't the problem and calling normal stuff "smart devices" is ignoring the modern term which appears to only refer to IOT. Just wanting machines to devolve is ignoring the fundamental issues such as planned obselescance, right to repair, exc. They could build a modern EM washer and dryer...it would still be crap and use proprietary parts.

It's a lot harder to make basic electro-mechanical proprietary parts that can't be copied by third party manufacturers. These parts are also a lot easier to repair, using the most basic of techniques which almost anyone can employ.

It's a lot easier for manufacturers to include planned obsolescence with MCUs, as they are much harder to reverse engineer and require specialist knowledge and tools, and you can brick a device that is mechanically sound with ease.

Really? You don't think they'de figure it out? I mean sure, it's easier to hide behind code, but they could just put a bunch of relays on a board and hide it in a black epoxy filled box, with numbered wires all the same color.

Highly unlikely, since it would be very difficult to ensure a precise MTBF using electromechanical components. Also such a device would be incredibly easy for anyone with a battery and a test lamp to reverse engineer.

[james_s]

Have you ever tried to reverse engineer the electromechanical timer in a washing machine or dishwasher? It's harder than it sounds, even when there's usually a schematic with a timing diagram tucked inside the control panel. They have about a dozen different sets of contacts and a complex cam assembly to sequence everything.