NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES

[Caliaxy]

See I would consider that a complete fail. A "smart" device that displays a cryptic error code? Why didn't it just display "fault detected with freezer automatic defrost system" or something along those lines? What good is all that smart stuff if you still have to search online to figure out what the error code means? Frankly I think there is no excuse for error codes when the device has the ability to communicate something human readable.

Yup! What is the point in having a full color touch display when it has the same functionality as a basic beeper or blink code LED?

Sorry for not explaining sooner - my particular LG model doesn't have a touch-screen, just a plain, simple numeric (white) LED display behind a stainless steel looking plastic cover (that matches the rest of the fridge), some single LEDs and also some soft-touch buttons. You can see the digits only when they are lit. Looks kind of cool. When they don't display error codes, they show the temperature (in the fridge and in the freezer). That only happens about 10 seconds after you adjust it with the touch buttons. Never bother to check how you enter the wifi password...

I remember seeing a fridge in the store with a big screen on one of the doors (like an airport arrivals/departures panel) but I though it was just for advertising (it was displaying the local weather and some commercials), never imagined they really sell that thing. I also remember seeing a fridge that was dispensing not only ice and cold water, but also hot coffee (but I'm digressing)

A really smart fridge should be able to display messages like: "Slide your credit card to clear the replace air filter warning" 

[Sal Ammoniac]

I'm actually with you on this one. I want my TV to just be a display, it has one job and that is to take an input, decode it and display it. It should just do that one job well. I don't even care about the sound.

I tend to agree with this, for the most part. My home theater system consists of components that only do one thing--the projector only projects an image on the screen and the receiver only outputs sound to the speakers. Only the streaming devices (FireTV, AppleTV) have connections to the network and if one or both of them fails, I can still watch movies on Blu-ray or from movies ripped onto my media PC. Nothing is "smart" and everything has separate remote controls that all must be used together, but that's the way I like it.

The one "smart" appliance I have that I actually like is my dryer. It has the ability to notify me via a text message when it turns off. Since I'm rarely in earshot when it's running, that's a nice feature to have. If that feature ever stops working, it won't affect the basic operation of the dryer.

When shopping for appliances, I tend to favor reliability and long life over gee-whiz gizmos that I'll never use anyway. That's getting harder and harder as companies continually look for ways to build things more cheaply, sacrificing robustness in favor of gizmos that are often just software that doesn't add to the material cost of the product. I'm currently shopping for a new dishwasher and have found that even the high-end models from brands like Bosch and Miele have flimsy dish racks that look and feel like they won't last long.

[Halcyon]

I'm actually with you on this one. I want my TV to just be a display, it has one job and that is to take an input, decode it and display it. It should just do that one job well. I don't even care about the sound.

I tend to agree with this, for the most part. My home theater system consists of components that only do one thing--the projector only projects an image on the screen and the receiver only outputs sound to the speakers. Only the streaming devices (FireTV, AppleTV) have connections to the network and if one or both of them fails, I can still watch movies on Blu-ray or from movies ripped onto my media PC. Nothing is "smart" and everything has separate remote controls that all must be used together, but that's the way I like it.

I purchased a power board with master and slave sockets. The TV is plugged into the master socket and when switched on, the power board detects the increase in power consumption and switches on all the slave sockets, which is basically the amplifier, subwoofer and docking station to the Nintendo switch. This also works in reverse; switching off the TV also switches everything else off.  The only thing running all the time is my Raspberry Pi which is my media player.

[james_s]

The one "smart" appliance I have that I actually like is my dryer. It has the ability to notify me via a text message when it turns off. Since I'm rarely in earshot when it's running, that's a nice feature to have. If that feature ever stops working, it won't affect the basic operation of the dryer.

I connected a relay across the motor in my dryer and wired that across the reed switch in a wireless door/window sensor. At that point I could easily integrate it into my home automation and I set up Home Assistant to send a notification to my phone when the dryer stops.

[Sal Ammoniac]

I'm actually with you on this one. I want my TV to just be a display, it has one job and that is to take an input, decode it and display it. It should just do that one job well. I don't even care about the sound.

I tend to agree with this, for the most part. My home theater system consists of components that only do one thing--the projector only projects an image on the screen and the receiver only outputs sound to the speakers. Only the streaming devices (FireTV, AppleTV) have connections to the network and if one or both of them fails, I can still watch movies on Blu-ray or from movies ripped onto my media PC. Nothing is "smart" and everything has separate remote controls that all must be used together, but that's the way I like it.

I purchased a power board with master and slave sockets. The TV is plugged into the master socket and when switched on, the power board detects the increase in power consumption and switches on all the slave sockets, which is basically the amplifier, subwoofer and docking station to the Nintendo switch. This also works in reverse; switching off the TV also switches everything else off.  The only thing running all the time is my Raspberry Pi which is my media player.

That's an interesting way of handling power switching. One of the advantages of my setup is that no one else in the house knows how to operate it, so I get to always be in control. 

[Sal Ammoniac]

The one "smart" appliance I have that I actually like is my dryer. It has the ability to notify me via a text message when it turns off. Since I'm rarely in earshot when it's running, that's a nice feature to have. If that feature ever stops working, it won't affect the basic operation of the dryer.

I connected a relay across the motor in my dryer and wired that across the reed switch in a wireless door/window sensor. At that point I could easily integrate it into my home automation and I set up Home Assistant to send a notification to my phone when the dryer stops.

I had a similar setup with my old dryer. The new one came with the text notification built-in, so I didn't need to implement my former setup. I bought the current dryer not because it had that feature, but because it had a stainless steel drum--the notification feature was a byproduct of buying the higher-end model.

[Bud]

Why do you guys need to know when your dryer stops. What is the deal with rushing to get stuff out of the dryer 

[james_s]

Why do you guys need to know when your dryer stops. What is the deal with rushing to get stuff out of the dryer 

If you let clothes sit in the dryer they get wrinkled. If you're not married you might not know, I never used to care in my younger days but women tend to be fussy about their clothes. Also many times I've got another load in the washer while the first load is drying and I don't want to forget to put it in the dryer. I have a similar notification on my washer for that reason. Also I'm an engineer and I like gadgets, home automation is just another of many vaguely related hobbies.

[Circlotron]

To get around when to transfer from washer to dryer you could always have a combination washer/dryer. Presumably the dry cycle would automatically follow on from wash. So when it conks out you are really stuffed. It's like those multi function printer / scanner / fax / kitchen sink things.  So much more scope for something to go wrong and then you have to either go get a separate scanner or printer or whatever in addition, or just chuck it out. 

[TimFox]

Most modern clothes dryers have a selectable mode where the drum will periodically rotate for a reasonable time after the drying stops to inhibit wrinkling.  This was added before they became smart.

[Sal Ammoniac]

If you let clothes sit in the dryer they get wrinkled. If you're not married you might not know, I never used to care in my younger days but women tend to be fussy about their clothes.

My wife and I have done our clothes washes separately for many years. She got tired of me shrinking her socks and melting her underwear. Doing it this way helps maintain domestic tranquility.

[Bassman59]

Most modern clothes dryers have a selectable mode where the drum will periodically rotate for a reasonable time after the drying stops to inhibit wrinkling.  This was added before they became smart.

My non-smart dryer has that, and it also has a "keep fresh" feature which takes cold water and spritzes it into the tub (well, it's a front-load) on occasion and then tumbles the load. It really works.

[Bassman59]

Why do you guys need to know when your dryer stops. What is the deal with rushing to get stuff out of the dryer 

"Tell me you're single and live alone without telling me you're single and live alone."

[Bassman59]

See I would consider that a complete fail. A "smart" device that displays a cryptic error code? Why didn't it just display "fault detected with freezer automatic defrost system" or something along those lines? What good is all that smart stuff if you still have to search online to figure out what the error code means? Frankly I think there is no excuse for error codes when the device has the ability to communicate something human readable.

Yup! What is the point in having a full color touch display when it has the same functionality as a basic beeper or blink code LED?

Sorry for not explaining sooner - my particular LG model doesn't have a touch-screen, just a plain, simple numeric (white) LED display behind a stainless steel looking plastic cover (that matches the rest of the fridge), some single LEDs and also some soft-touch buttons. You can see the digits only when they are lit. Looks kind of cool. When they don't display error codes, they show the temperature (in the fridge and in the freezer). That only happens about 10 seconds after you adjust it with the touch buttons. Never bother to check how you enter the wifi password...

I remember seeing a fridge in the store with a big screen on one of the doors (like an airport arrivals/departures panel) but I though it was just for advertising (it was displaying the local weather and some commercials), never imagined they really sell that thing. I also remember seeing a fridge that was dispensing not only ice and cold water, but also hot coffee (but I'm digressing)

A really smart fridge should be able to display messages like: "Slide your credit card to clear the replace air filter warning" 

This is why you should never buy a smart refrigerator (warning: foul language, but hilarious).

[james_s]

My wife and I have done our clothes washes separately for many years. She got tired of me shrinking her socks and melting her underwear. Doing it this way helps maintain domestic tranquility.

She banished me from laundry duty for the same reason, and doesn't seem to mind washing my clothes which have no particular special requirements so I just let her do it. I take care of the dishes because for some reason she is just horrible at loading the dishwasher. I also maintain all of the appliances and fix them whenever there is a problem. It works out.

[AVGresponding]

Have you ever tried to reverse engineer the electromechanical timer in a washing machine or dishwasher? It's harder than it sounds, even when there's usually a schematic with a timing diagram tucked inside the control panel. They have about a dozen different sets of contacts and a complex cam assembly to sequence everything.

It's not hard, it's just time-consuming.

I'm not a washing machine engineer, so I can't tell you whether those old electromechanical switches were prone to failure or not. All I can tell you is that of the 3 washing machines I have personally owned, none failed on the timer-switch. One developed a fatal leak, and one burned the motor out. Both were several years old by the time I acquired them, and lasted another decade or so each.
The one I have now is the only one I have bought new, and while it has the ability to link to my smartphone I have never set it up to do so. It's quite a few years old now, hopefully it'll last another decade at least.

[SilverSolder]

I have an AEG washing machine, and and AEG dishwasher, both are 31 years old this year.  The washing machine had its first service call ever last month.  The inlet hose (between the machine and the wall) had deteriorated and started to leak a little...

In fairness, they haven't seen continuous use for all 31 years, but still...  I'd buy this brand again!

[LoveLaika]

So, to quote Gilfoyle...

This thing is addressing problems that don't exist.

It's solutionism at its worst.

We are dumbing down machines that are inherently superior.

[james_s]

It's not hard, it's just time-consuming.

I'm not a washing machine engineer, so I can't tell you whether those old electromechanical switches were prone to failure or not. All I can tell you is that of the 3 washing machines I have personally owned, none failed on the timer-switch. One developed a fatal leak, and one burned the motor out. Both were several years old by the time I acquired them, and lasted another decade or so each.
The one I have now is the only one I have bought new, and while it has the ability to link to my smartphone I have never set it up to do so. It's quite a few years old now, hopefully it'll last another decade at least.

So is reverse engineering the function of the firmware controlling a typical washing machine. Washing clothes is a solved problem, the control aspect is just not all that complicated, whether done by a mechanical timer or a microcontroller. It's complicated at a glance, but if you actually sit down and think about what all it does, it's just a sequence of timed events.

My washing machine was broken when I got it (for free) but I resoldered the motor controller and that has worked fine for around 15 years now. About 5 years ago the seal failed and water destroyed the bearings but I was able to find a replacement kit and press in new bearings. I suspect what will eventually kill it is failure of the drum spider. That happened to my friend's washer a couple years ago during the spin failure. It reminded me a bit of a turbine engine failure, the debris was contained but it pretty much exploded when the drum broke loose at speed and started thrashing around as the remains of the spider spun around and smashed itself to pieces.

[Bassman59]

It's not hard, it's just time-consuming.

I'm not a washing machine engineer, so I can't tell you whether those old electromechanical switches were prone to failure or not. All I can tell you is that of the 3 washing machines I have personally owned, none failed on the timer-switch. One developed a fatal leak, and one burned the motor out. Both were several years old by the time I acquired them, and lasted another decade or so each.
The one I have now is the only one I have bought new, and while it has the ability to link to my smartphone I have never set it up to do so. It's quite a few years old now, hopefully it'll last another decade at least.

So is reverse engineering the function of the firmware controlling a typical washing machine. Washing clothes is a solved problem, the control aspect is just not all that complicated, whether done by a mechanical timer or a microcontroller. It's complicated at a glance, but if you actually sit down and think about what all it does, it's just a sequence of timed events.

The mechanical timer in your clothes washer is a synchronous state machine. Is it a Mealy or a Moore machine? WHO CARES.

[Bassman59]

Have you ever tried to reverse engineer the electromechanical timer in a washing machine or dishwasher? It's harder than it sounds, even when there's usually a schematic with a timing diagram tucked inside the control panel. They have about a dozen different sets of contacts and a complex cam assembly to sequence everything.

It's not hard, it's just time-consuming.

I'm not a washing machine engineer, so I can't tell you whether those old electromechanical switches were prone to failure or not. All I can tell you is that of the 3 washing machines I have personally owned, none failed on the timer-switch. One developed a fatal leak, and one burned the motor out. Both were several years old by the time I acquired them, and lasted another decade or so each.

I had a failure of the mechanical timer on a standard Sears/Kenmore clothes washer, and it was simple enough to get the part and to install it. I don't remember how old the machine was at the time of failure.

[Bud]

Why do you guys need to know when your dryer stops. What is the deal with rushing to get stuff out of the dryer 

"Tell me you're single and live alone without telling me you're single and live alone."

Good try. Our 25 years wedding aniversary is next year and our kid is finishing his Uni. We are happy owners of a washer/dryer combo which never needed a repair.

[Andrew LB]

Whenever I see someone use the phrase "Ok boomer" I instantly think that they're an idiot and wonder if they even realize how dumb it sounds? I'm a generation younger than the boomers. It's going to be funny when you get old and the kids start insulting you for being out of touch with the latest fads, it will happen.

I couldn't agree more. As a 'Gen X' i'm in that age group who weren't born into the internet age but have been part of it from the very beginning and I for one cannot stand 'smart' appliances not because i'm out of touch, but because i'm at that point in my life where useless sh*t full of needless complexity and the subsequent points of failure just aren't very appealing. There isn't a thing on my refrigerator, clothes washing machine, dishwasher,  or water heater that is beyond my ability to fix myself and that simplicity almost always translates into longevity

A perfect example of this is a refrigerator that now resides in my garage that my grandparents bought brand new in 1932. It's an old GE Monitor Top and they used it for many years before relocating it to their garage after putting a more modern fridge in the house. After they passed, i decided to replace the wiring, and give it a new paint job and it's now purring away in my garage keeping my beer cold. It only consumes 117 watts while the compressor is running, which is a fraction of modern fridges. It's simplicity is a beautiful thing, and I doubt you can buy any appliance today that will last 91+ years.

[Andrew LB]

I'm actually with you on this one. I want my TV to just be a display, it has one job and that is to take an input, decode it and display it. It should just do that one job well. I don't even care about the sound.

I tend to agree with this, for the most part. My home theater system consists of components that only do one thing--the projector only projects an image on the screen and the receiver only outputs sound to the speakers. Only the streaming devices (FireTV, AppleTV) have connections to the network and if one or both of them fails, I can still watch movies on Blu-ray or from movies ripped onto my media PC. Nothing is "smart" and everything has separate remote controls that all must be used together, but that's the way I like it.

A number of years ago i bought a Logitech Harmony remote, threw the pile of other remotes into a drawer, and never looked back. The best part is it doesn't require every component being online or have any smart features.

[SilverSolder]

[...] A perfect example of this is a refrigerator that now resides in my garage that my grandparents bought brand new in 1932. [...]

1932   91 years of service   That's pretty impressive!

A technician was here a couple of years ago to help get our modern fridge up and running again, told me that getting 5 years out of a modern appliance is something we should be grateful for, LOL...