NO MORE "SMART" APPLIANCES

[SilverSolder]

Yeah, the smart-ass MBAs are buying all the "known good" brands and cheapening them, so brands really have little or no meaning any longer...

That's been going on for a long time. I remember about 20 years ago I started seeing defunct 1970s HiFi brands showing up on cheap new junk. It's a classic example of burning up long term reputation on short term gains. Marketing types obsess over brands, but they are all but irrelevant and getting more so all the time. There are not that many companies that actually make stuff like appliances anymore, it makes very little difference what brand it is. There are only a few companies that make furnaces anymore, if you look at the spec sheet where it shows you how to decode the model number the first letter usually indicates the brand. The units themselves are identical across 5 or 6 brands, they differ only in the badge and the styling of the stamped metal access panels.

Car makers are masters at turning a couple of basic platforms into several brands.  It makes some sense, actually:  it allows customers to "pay what they want" for basically the same vehicle at different price points (the fact of their "sameness" is usually only apparent to engineers).   Arguably, those that overpay are subsidising the cheapest versions in the range!   Maybe the same kind of thing happens in the furnace industry?

Same with appliances, obviously.  There are many brands, but only a few manufacturers.

It takes decades to build a good reputation...  and it can be ruined very quickly in the internet age!

[eti]

I’ve got an idea 💡

Let’s bundle Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos and  Sunbaked Pecan (or whatever the Google CEO is called) into Bezos’ rocket, together with some power tools and a few hundred thousand tons of building materials, and send them to Mars, where they can make a head start on colonising it, whilst conveniently giving us all a break from their egocentric nonsense. 😁

[SilverSolder]

I’ve got an idea 💡

Let’s bundle Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos and  Sunbaked Pecan (or whatever the Google CEO is called) into Bezos’ rocket, together with some power tools and a few hundred thousand tons of building materials, and send them to Mars, where they can make a head start on colonising it, whilst conveniently giving us all a break from their egocentric nonsense. 😁

LOL well, life on Earth would be more boring if we didn't have our eccentrics to brighten our days!   

[Rick Law]

Just wanted manufacturers to know (if anyone from them frequents this forum)

My fridge's thermostat (cool control, as they like to call it) is failing.  I have been shopping for a replacement fridge, of course one that fits the space I currently have.

The only one I found near-by (deliver charge is a consideration) is a Samsung with ice maker and WiFi.  The ice maker I don't want.  The WiFi terminated my consideration.  If that fridge don't have WiFi, I might consider installing water outlet for the ice maker even while I have hardly ever needed any ice, that may increase my house's resell value.  But the WiFi I really don't want - that WiFi terminated the deal - no go!

I use the Samsung S9 phone, free from my carrier, for web browsing only.  For phone, I am using a "5G compliant" 4G flip phone.  I hate all the bloat they loaded on the S9, and things I can't delete.  Last thing I want is WiFi with a Samsung fridge.  Yeah, they may have a phone-app to work with it (not sure if it does or not), but I have no desire to have an app to "talk to" my fridge.  In the 29 years I have used my current fridge, the only adjustment I ever used on it is the thermostat setting may be a dozen times, why would I want an app to do something that simple.  Last thing I need is a WiFi which may end up being band-width I paid for being used by Samsung like Amazon's sidewalk.

Besides, God knows what sensors they may have someday - Someday, when I turn on my phone, a message from the fridge:
"Mr. Law, your fridge temperature is set too low.  You are wasting electricity.  We have set it back to normal for you...  If you insist on setting it at below recommended, your refrigerator will be shut off automatically to comply with current government recommendations..."
"Mr. Law, I detected pizza in your fridge too often, did you know fat is bad for you?  Please note, we care about the environment and your health..."

So, after a couple of weeks of hunting for one with the right dimension and found non attractive, I am going to have a go at replacing the thermostat.  I know that is failing, there may be other stuff in that old klicker failing too.  The darn thing has been running since 1992.  Barring total failure, or unless I found one with the right dimension and no WiFi (and no ice maker), I am sticking with the old one, for as long as I can.

[james_s]

I have absolutely no need for wifi on a fridge but do you lose anything if you simply never set it up?

[Rerouter]

You would probably need to check the manual to find out, but I would not be suprised if some stuff is locked out if your not online... so many things are going that way.

[Rick Law]

I have absolutely no need for wifi on a fridge but do you lose anything if you simply never set it up?

I am less concern about what the manufacturer said it would do than it doing things the manufacturer didn't tell you it would do.

Given power, they would use it.  Look at how Amazon is provisioning it's Sidewalk.  They use the customer's bandwidth, and according to a reedit post (which I cited in a reply on another thread a while back), op-out doesn't always work.

Just because I don't set it up doesn't mean it wont be able to connect.  I can think of many ways they can bypass that limitation and found way to connect via another device in my house, or a device within range of my house.

[SilverSolder]

I can see a possible market for small EMP devices to take out unwanted network connections, LOL! 

[AVGresponding]

Just remove the aerial, or even the entire wi-fi board itself, if it's a daughter-board like many of them are.

[LoveLaika]

I can see a possible market for small EMP devices to take out unwanted network connections, LOL! 

Like how Bruce Wayne did in The Dark Knight Rises when he gets out of his car, to stop the paparazzi cameras? Do those even exist in real life?

[james_s]

I am less concern about what the manufacturer said it would do than it doing things the manufacturer didn't tell you it would do.

Given power, they would use it.  Look at how Amazon is provisioning it's Sidewalk.  They use the customer's bandwidth, and according to a reedit post (which I cited in a reply on another thread a while back), op-out doesn't always work.

Just because I don't set it up doesn't mean it wont be able to connect.  I can think of many ways they can bypass that limitation and found way to connect via another device in my house, or a device within range of my house.

That's getting a little paranoid. I think it's extremely unlikely a refrigerator will somehow find a way to connect to the internet  without you setting it up. I don't see there being a whole lot of useful data for it to gather either, it's not like a smart TV that exists to spy on what you watch and show you ads.

[Rick Law]

I am less concern about what the manufacturer said it would do than it doing things the manufacturer didn't tell you it would do.

Given power, they would use it.  Look at how Amazon is provisioning it's Sidewalk.  They use the customer's bandwidth, and according to a reedit post (which I cited in a reply on another thread a while back), op-out doesn't always work.

Just because I don't set it up doesn't mean it wont be able to connect.  I can think of many ways they can bypass that limitation and found way to connect via another device in my house, or a device within range of my house.

That's getting a little paranoid. I think it's extremely unlikely a refrigerator will somehow find a way to connect to the internet  without you setting it up. I don't see there being a whole lot of useful data for it to gather either, it's not like a smart TV that exists to spy on what you watch and show you ads.

May not be now, but someday.  It will start with convenience.  You download the app, it will activate built-in sensors.  It will let you know you are down to your last can of beer, and a one-touch reorder button right on your app...  So convenient and so helpful.  Ah, of course, apps will come with ads on what beer you may like, but still, it is so convenient.

Then, regulations come into play.  Since your health insurance is from a government run website with government subsidies (as it was in Obamacare and some States continued the healthcare mandate), government have a say on whether you have coverage at what price.  It is only natural that such sensor data should be made available to designated authorities so they can help the public manage their health better.

As most people would agree, government should not be in people's bedrooms.  Why then would I want government (or corporations) in my kitchen?

Given the ability, and WiFi is that enabler, those in power (governments or corporations) will find ways to abuse it.

[David Hess]

That's getting a little paranoid. I think it's extremely unlikely a refrigerator will somehow find a way to connect to the internet  without you setting it up. I don't see there being a whole lot of useful data for it to gather either, it's not like a smart TV that exists to spy on what you watch and show you ads.

Some areas will have an open WiFi hotspot available, and it would not surprise me of the manufacturer makes a deal with ISPs to access the net over their WiFi hotspots, which may be your neighbor's.

[Daixiwen]

I can't wait for the day you won't be able to open your fridge because it's doing a software update....

[LoveLaika]

Didn't Silicon Valley show that, with their Seppens Smart Fridge?

[Stray Electron]

Just wanted manufacturers to know (if anyone from them frequents this forum)

My fridge's thermostat (cool control, as they like to call it) is failing.  I have been shopping for a replacement fridge, of course one that fits the space I currently have.

The only one I found near-by (deliver charge is a consideration) is a Samsung   <big snip>
 I am sticking with the old one, for as long as I can.

   We bought another house a year ago and the seller left a very large Samsung 3 door refrigerator/freezer in it. The control to switch between water, cubed ice or crushed ice in the door and to control the temperatures didn't work and they said that it had been that way since they they had lived in the house (it was there when they moved in nine years previously.)  I opened it up and got the part numbers for the controller boards and bought used boards from E-bay and fixed it. Altogether I have about $150 in it and it now works extremely well. A new one, if they were even available would have costs us over $4,000. The decorative plastic pieces that came with the boards that I bought were the wrong color and were crusty with age but I swapped the plastic from mine and it all looks like new.  The refrigerator/freezer has all sorts of user accessible BIT and separate compressors for the freezer and refrigerator so I plan on keeping it for a very long time.

[Rick Law]

...
We bought another house a year ago and the seller left a very large Samsung 3 door refrigerator/freezer in it.
...
A new one, if they were even available would have costs us over $4,000.
...

The large ones are expensive, isn't it.  Good that my house is an older house, the large one wont fit my space anyhow.  The bad thing is, that smaller space (less depth) is why my selection is rather limited.

From my perspective, dollars for those unused features isn't really the issue.  Yeah, the probability of them using WiFi/Bluetooth to monitor or collect data is low at least for the immediate future.  But, if I don't have WiFi/Bluetooth at all, the probability is zero.  Zero is lower than low.

15-20 years ago, ownership (for home appliance and personal electronics) included the right to control what I own.  These days, you can't control what is on your smart phone, what is on your Windows machine...   It call home when it pleases, collect and transmit data when it pleases...  In short, ownership no longer include control today.

Do you trust any major corporation or governments not to use your private data to their benefit?  For me, I don't.

[SilverSolder]

You will own nothing and be happy! 

[james_s]

I don't trust them either, but unless you are completely off the grid they have access to that data anyway through any number of more convenient vectors. Securing my refrigerator is likely very low on the effort to benefit scale. It's bolting shut a tiny window high up on the side of the house when the front door is sitting wide open.

[RJSV]

Yes, SAD isn't it: That on top of the little, simple trouble we have a world of fantastic technology, space exploration and astronomy. But some little, petty but necessary items, control has been snatched.
...They nickle-and-dime you to death.
   Humans don't suffer 'petty' very well.
   Hope maybe, future will bring better ways to push back.

[Rick Law]

I don't trust them either, but unless you are completely off the grid they have access to that data anyway through any number of more convenient vectors. Securing my refrigerator is likely very low on the effort to benefit scale. It's bolting shut a tiny window high up on the side of the house when the front door is sitting wide open.

I understand what you said.  I am on the cautious side.

I know there are lots of other holes there, and many are beyond my control.  That said, there is no reason to intentionally keep that "tiny window high up on the side of the house" open either.    Point is, I don't have to buy one with WiFi, so why would I want an opening, however small.

[james_s]

Well as long as you have the option to buy one without WiFi then yes, obviously that is preferable. It sounded like this was a challenge though, which I think is odd, I didn't realize so many fridges had WiFi but maybe it's getting more common.

[vk6zgo]

The Air Conditioners which offer themselves as WIFI networks seem to not do anything----they certainly don't give you access to the Internet..
My iPad is quite happy to connect to them however----W10 not so.

I think you could control such Airconds, if you had the right "App" for them, but without it, they are useless, which is probably why they don't bother using a password.
It seems to me, that they can't connect to the internet, except, perhaps through your device (again, if you have the "App").

[David Hess]

Well as long as you have the option to buy one without WiFi then yes, obviously that is preferable. It sounded like this was a challenge though, which I think is odd, I didn't realize so many fridges had WiFi but maybe it's getting more common.

Or disable the WiFi by shielding, jamming, or cutting, but wasn't there a "smart" product recently which would stop working if you prevented it from accessing the internet?

[Rick Law]

Well as long as you have the option to buy one without WiFi then yes, obviously that is preferable. It sounded like this was a challenge though, which I think is odd, I didn't realize so many fridges had WiFi but maybe it's getting more common.

Or disable the WiFi by shielding, jamming, or cutting, but wasn't there a "smart" product recently which would stop working if you prevented it from accessing the internet?

Related but may not not be directly to your point.  (I think there might have been another thread on this topic already)

Samsung remotely disabled TV sets looted during looting-riot(s) in South Africa.  So, Internet connected or not, they could get in - presumably via another Samsung (or partner) devices...
-OR-
These devices require some form of activation.

Reference:
thesouthafrican.com: "Samsung disabling all looted televisions with remote blocking technology"
^{https://www.thesouthafrican.com/technology/samsung-disabling-all-looted-televisions-with-remote-blocking-technology-20-august-2021/}