Author Topic: Not sure if it is dodgy  (Read 5906 times)

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Offline DuPeTopic starter

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Not sure if it is dodgy
« on: July 05, 2022, 06:40:20 pm »
https://www.mojo.vision/mojo-lens

But for me some of the claims seem extremly futuristic to me: Battery, focusing, data transfer...
what do you think?
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2022, 06:43:22 pm »
Don't ya love transhumanism! :-DD
 

Offline DuPeTopic starter

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2022, 06:47:28 pm »
that was not my question.
Just wanted to know if you think this could be technically possible
« Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 06:49:03 pm by DuPe »
 

Offline wraper

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2022, 06:52:13 pm »
Without considering anything else, claim:
Quote
Mojo Lens’ revolutionary design uses a tiny microLED display the size of a grain of sand to share critical information
is an outright lie. It cannot possibly be true. Although technology is called microLED, it's micro for LED, not for pixel/display size which are huge. microLED is a very expensive technology for huge displays, not for tiny ones. So this must be an investment scam.
 
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Offline DuPeTopic starter

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2022, 06:54:45 pm »

"investment scam"was my first thought as well
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2022, 07:24:24 pm »
And all this powered by batteries inside the lense... sure.
 
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Offline madires

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2022, 07:42:04 pm »
They could ask WiGL to help with the power supply. >:D
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2022, 07:54:41 pm »
The implanted retina stimulators are powered by induction. This has been done for decades now for a range of active implanted devices. So they need an external device (which includes the camera, processing, data link and power link.)

This "lens", though, seems to be powered by "solid-state batteries" that would fit inside the lens. For those who know what it is, they are claiming it's a form of scleral lens. Those are significantly "larger" than the usual contact lenses, but still pretty thin to fit anything much inside the lens. Also, scleral lenses are a pain and used by people who often don't have a choice. Making essentially a "gadget" with this type of lens is in itself a weird idea - if it were feasible at all.
 
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Offline DuPeTopic starter

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2022, 08:10:48 pm »


Quote from: madires on Today at 20:42:04>They could ask WiGL to help with the power supply
>https://www.startengine.com/wigl
in fact, that would had been my next question :-//


« Last Edit: July 05, 2022, 08:15:35 pm by DuPe »
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2022, 08:48:05 pm »
I see nothing that violates laws of physics here.  Depends on what they are promising investors.  If they are offering a small chance of a viable product in the next decade, or something even less ambitious, I would say risky, but not dodgy.  If they are promising higher chances of success or a shorter time interval it moves them right into the dodgy scam area.
 
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Online BrianHG

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2022, 01:27:20 am »
Ohhhh, the eye problem lawsuits would hit them like a sledge hammer.

Even the ear bug stupid law enforced low volume issue with modern audio players...
An eye is worth over 100x the $ lawsuit.
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy (Mojo microlens)
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2022, 05:23:03 am »
is an outright lie. It cannot possibly be true. Although technology is called microLED, it's micro for LED, not for pixel/display size which are huge. microLED is a very expensive technology for huge displays, not for tiny ones. So this must be an investment scam.


I see the BBC has written an article about it:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-61318460
Quote
"We've built what we call a feature-complete prototype that actually works and can be worn - we're soon going to be testing that [out] internally," says Mr Sinclair.

So they say he has a working prototype that he is going to try,
I don't seem many pictures apart from the one that looks to me like a cad image and a tiny one on a low resolution finger.

I wonder if that finger is a from stock photo?
Quote
Could contact lenses be the ultimate computer screen?
By Emma Woollacott Technology of Business reporter
Published 20 May

Smart contact lenses promise to bring data directly into your field of view
Imagine you have to make a speech, but instead of looking down at your notes, the words scroll in front of your eyes, whichever direction you look in. That's just one of many features the makers of smart contact lenses promise will be available in the future. "Imagine... you're a musician with your lyrics, or your chords, in front of your eyes. Or you're an athlete and you have your biometrics and your distance and other information that you need," says Steve Sinclair, from Mojo, which is developing smart contact lenses.

His company is about to embark on comprehensive testing of smart contact lens on humans, that will give the wearer a heads-up display that appears to float in front of their eyes. Illustration of how Mojo data might look Contact lenses might be able to give you useful information
The product's scleral lens (a larger lens that extends to the whites of the eye) corrects the user's vision, but also incorporates a tiny microLED display, smart sensors and solid-state batteries. "We've built what we call a feature-complete prototype that actually works and can be worn - we're soon going to be testing that [out] internally," says Mr Sinclair. "Now comes the interesting part, where we start to make optimisations for performance and power, and wear it for longer periods of time to prove that we can wear it all day."

Other smart lenses are being developed to collect health data. Lenses could "include the ability to self-monitor and track intra-ocular pressure, or glucose," says Rebecca Rojas, instructor of optometric science at Columbia University. Glucose levels for example, need to be closely monitored by people with diabetes. "They can also provide extended-release drug-delivery options, which is beneficial in diagnosis and treatment plans. It's exciting to see how far technology has come, and the potential it offers to improve patients' lives."

Research is underway to build lenses that can diagnose and treat medical conditions from eye conditions, to diabetes, or even cancer by tracking certain biomarkers such as light levels, cancer-related molecules or the amount of glucose in tears. A team at the University of Surrey, for example, has created a smart contact lens that contains a photo-detector for receiving optical information, a temperature sensor for diagnosing potential corneal disease and a glucose sensor monitoring the glucose levels in tear fluid. The contact lens developed by the University of Surrey can monitor the wearer's health "We make it ultra-flat, with a very thin mesh layer, and we can put the sensor layer directly onto a contact lens so it's directly touching the eye and has contact with the tear solution," says Yunlong Zhao, lecturer in energy storage and bioelectronics at the University of Surrey.

"You will feel like it's more comfortable to wear because it's more flexible, and because there's direct contact with the tear solution it can provide more accurate sensing results," says Dr Zhao. Despite the excitement, smart lense technology still has to overcome a number of hurdles. One challenge will be powering them with batteries these will obviously have to be incredibly tiny, so will they deliver enough power to do anything useful? Mojo is still testing its product, but wants customers to be able to wear its lenses all day, without having to recharge them. "The expectation [is] that you are not consuming information from the lens constantly but in short moments throughout the day. "Actual battery life will depend on how and how often it is used, just like your smartphone or smartwatch today," a company spokesperson explains.

Google Glass - launched in 2014 - didn't take off
Other concerns over privacy have been rehearsed since Google's launch of smart glasses in 2014, which was widely seen as a failure.

"Any discreet device with a forward-facing camera that allows a user to take pictures, or record video, poses risks to bystanders' privacy," says Daniel Leufer, senior policy Analyst at digital rights campaign group, Access Now. "With smart glasses, there's at least some scope to signal to bystanders when they are recording - for example, red warning lights - but with contact lenses it's more difficult to see how to integrate such a feature." Aside from privacy worries, makers will also have satisfy worries over data-security for the people wearing the lenses. Smart lenses can only fulfil their function if they track the user's eye movements, and this plus other data could reveal a great deal. "What if these devices collect and share data about what things I look at, how long I look at them, whether my heart rate increases when I look at a certain person, or how much I perspire when asked a certain question?" says Mr Leufer.

"This type of intimate data could be used to make problematic inferences about everything from our sexual orientation to whether we're telling the truth under interrogation," he adds. "My worry is that devices like AR (augmented reality) glasses, or smart contact lenses, will be seen as a potential trove of intimate data."
For its part, Mojo says all data is security-protected and kept private.

The Mojo contact lens incorporates a tiny screen
Additionally there are concerns about the product that will be familiar to anyone who wears regular contacts. "Any type of contact lens can pose a risk to eye health, if not properly cared for or not fitted properly. "Just like any other medical device, we need to make sure the patients' health is the priority, and whatever device used has benefits that outweigh the risk," says Ms Rojas, from Columbia University.

"I'm concerned about non-compliance, or poor lens hygiene and over-wear. These can lead to further complications like irritation, inflammation, infections or risks to eye health." Rebecca Rojas, instructor of optometric science at Columbia University Like any contact lens, smart lenses will have to be used with care says Rebecca Rojas With Mojo's lenses expected to be used for up to a year at a time, Mr Sinclair admits this is a concern. But he points out that a smart lens means it can be programmed to detect whether it's being cleaned enough and even to alert users when it needs replacing. The firm also plans to work with optometrists for prescription and monitoring. "You don't just launch something like a smart contact lens and expect everyone's going to adopt it on day one," says Mr Sinclair. "It's going to take some time, just like all new consumer products, but we think it's inevitable that all of our eye wear is eventually going to become."
Here we go again smart this smart that and I count 16 of them.

Say it is true I am still not happy about this buzzworld bullshit:
Smart, optimisations, smart lens, smart sensors, smart lense technology, smartphone, smartwatch

If I was a musician I wouldn't want that text readout slapped in a fixed part of my vision or appearing on and off.  I would want to freely look at things by moving my head. I'd find that very annoying already with webapages.

Quote
Other concerns over privacy have been rehearsed since Google's launch of smart glasses in 2014,
Correct me if you think I am wrong but I don't remember Google glasses being referred to "smart glasses" or maybe I wasn't paying enough attention to it.
https://www.google.com/search?q=google+smart+glasses&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A2008%2Ccd_max%3A2016&tbm=
2008 - 2016
https://www.google.com/glass/start/
Nope, it says "smarter" not smart.
Archive 2013:
https://web.archive.org/web/20130315011941/http://www.google.com/glass/start/what-it-does/
No "smart" in there. In fact they seem quite clear what it does.

Quote
smart lenses will have to be used with care
Well why don't start using the word "SMART" with a bit more care then than just plastering it everywhere on everything like 16 times in the BBC article. It sounds insulting to me when applied in this way that could mean everything to an empty meaning.

Would something like this: "Automatic/programmable micro lenses" or even "Mojo Microlens" sound better? instead of using the word "smart" in it.
That would catch my confidence a bit better that at least I know they can be adjusted or altered in some way to assist vision.

The word "smart" added with the word "glass" makes me thing that they will set it to "think" for the user and the user is somewhat stupid and confused and anything other than the size and fitting is lie a one size must fit for all.

I'll find it interesting to see how this turns out, if it is true or not  claiming he has that working prototype to the BBC.

I wonder what ThunderF00t would think of this.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 06:01:31 am by MrMobodies »
 
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Offline DuPeTopic starter

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2022, 07:39:19 pm »
Thanks folks for all your well thought opinions.
I will not invest in that undertaking  :)
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2022, 07:59:03 pm »
Yeah. The state-of-the-art solid-state batteries in the volume we could figure out here would not store much energy at all. There probably would never be enough energy to make this work, as far as we can guess what it would be supposed to do, more than a few seconds between recharges - which I'm guessing would happen inductively as I mentioned earlier.

Another "interesting" feasability point that comes to mind: how could the eye be ever able to focus on a display so close to the cornea (while still being able to see clearly what's in the real environment)? I'm perplexed. It would literally be something like 1mm away from the cornea or so. That itself would be pretty challenging. Would require some lens that (at least off the top of my head) would be very hard to fit in such a tiny volume, and that would have a completely different focal than that of the part of the lense that you'd see through.

Another point would be strictly controlling the heat. You wouldn't want some device to heat up your eye.

But as a couple of us said, even if that were at all feasible, that would be way too much of a medical risk for something that would be a gadget and not an "essential" medical device.

So yeah, if you have some money to invest, I'd suggest looking elsewhere. Maybe invest in a semiconductor foundry? =)
 
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Offline DuPeTopic starter

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2022, 08:50:25 pm »


Quote from: SiliconWizard on Today at 20:59:03
Another "interesting" feasability point that comes to mind: how could the eye be ever able to focus on a display so close to the cornea (while still being able to see clearly what's in the real environment)? I'm perplexed. It would literally be something like 1mm away from the cornea or so. That itself would be pretty challenging. Would require some lens that (at least off the top of my head) would be very hard to fit in such a tiny volume, and that would have a completely different focal than that of the part of the lense that you'd see through.

This was one of my major doubts as well.
But. I am not an optical knowledgeable one


 

Offline Daixiwen

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2022, 07:06:05 am »
But think of the possibilities! They could stream ads right to your eyeballs, and you would be forced to see them! Even closing your eyes wouldn't work. We truly live in interesting times
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2022, 08:14:00 am »
Joke: They could use them as "digital billboards" in the night when you are trying to sleep.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2022, 12:57:30 pm »
Isn't that already a thing in some sci-fi book/series/film? There are no commercials on TV any more, they just broadcast them straight into your dreams? I forget where I saw/read it.
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Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2022, 03:56:28 pm »
And even if it is feasible and available to the public, how fast would it be banned from using it when driving your car. :palm:

Especially when

But think of the possibilities! They could stream ads right to your eyeballs, and you would be forced to see them! Even closing your eyes wouldn't work. We truly live in interesting times

used in this way :-DD

Driving quietly along and wham an ad comes up and you freak out, loose control over the steering wheel and cause a major accident. Who to blame then |O

Offline BrokenYugo

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2022, 04:50:44 pm »
Isn't that already a thing in some sci-fi book/series/film? There are no commercials on TV any more, they just broadcast them straight into your dreams? I forget where I saw/read it.

Futurama?

https://youtu.be/hlCrcMeVZHs
 
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Offline TomWinTejas

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2022, 04:22:54 pm »
The CEO is Drew Perkins, who has an impressive background in technology.  He was one of the authors of PPP, was one of the founders of Lightera and Infinera (optical networking companies), so he doesn't seem like your typical huckster. 
 

Offline Damperhead

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2023, 08:30:40 am »

Hands-on: Mojo Vision’s Smart Contact Lens is Further Along Than You Might Think
https://www.roadtovr.com/mojo-vision-smart-contact-lens-ar-hands-on/

I am quite skeptical about the Mojo Vision’s Smart Contact Lens. If we look at those Mojo Vision pictures of the lens. They cannot be functional. And why on earth would they have used green solder mask and solderable SMT passive components. Flex wiring doesn't look like a very realistic implementation either. However, I guess sales photos like these can get funding these days - unfortunately. Interesting as an idea but the implementation impossible with the presented technology.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2023, 10:25:27 am »
Hands-on: Mojo Vision’s Smart Contact Lens is Further Along Than You Might Think
https://www.roadtovr.com/mojo-vision-smart-contact-lens-ar-hands-on/

That web page reflects last year's status (June/July 2022). In the meantime, Mojo Vision have admitted that they can't get the lens to work, and they are "pivoting" to pure LED displays, supposedly with up to 28,000 DPI:

https://www.mojo.vision/news/a-new-direction
https://www.mojo.vision/technology

"Thank you, dear investors, we will spend the rest of your money pretending to develop something else."  ::)
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2023, 08:47:24 pm »
No way! :popcorn:
 

Online PlainName

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Re: Not sure if it is dodgy
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2023, 03:14:52 pm »
Quote
In the meantime, Mojo Vision have admitted that they can't get the lens to work

Have they, or is that just a cynical interpretation? There are many reasons why things don't make it to production, and whilst 'not working' is one it's conceivable that a potential product does 'work' but still fails to make the grade. In this case, 'not work' could cover the display, the lens, the power, the comms, etc. Did they say anything about what the issue is? All I got from your link was that they were 'pivoting' and no actual reason given.
 


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