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Plasma free energy question

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fonograph:
Dont worry,I dont believe in any free energy pseudo science,as a physics noob I just dont see where the energy comes from in this scenario so it appears as free energy through I am sure it isnt since that is impossible.I was about to ask this on Stackexchange but that site sucks donkey balls,vast majority of my questions go completly ignored for eons,and if someone responds its useless answer... so decided to ask here.

Imagine a electret,wtf is electret you ask? Its just like magnet except instead of magnetic,its electric,and near this p electret is needle electrode connected to high voltage powersupply,the high voltage causes corona discharge,suddenly neutral air becomes charged ions.The ions will be pushed or pulled by the electret.

Now,my question is this,where the hell does that energy come from? The electret pushes/pulls and accelerates the ions,they gain kinetic energy,I dont understand where does this enery come from.

When I was learning about magnets,I read that the energy that magnet gives to object as it push it away is energy you gave when you forced that object to be close to magnet,its kind of like spring.But here,we arent pushing against repulsive force,the atoms just become suddenly ionized in one spot,if what we look for are ions,then its like they pop up into existance out of nowhere.

I am physics noob but I dont see how the electret can do work,its just piece of stationary charge,the high voltage powersupply certainly does work,but that only goes to ionisation,it doesnt explain kinetic energy gained by the ions by the presense of electret.

T3sl4co1l:
I somehow doubt you'll get a corona pulse from waving a needle around an electret...

Supposing you set up the experiment properly, you'll notice the charge bleeds away almost instantly.  There is energy but not power.

So you have to move the needle to the other side, to get the opposite polarity.  Then either you get another discharge, or you have to discharge it manually then repeat another cycle to get the same polarity pulse as in the first instance.

What have you done, through all of this?  Mechanical work, of course.  The electret is merely polarizing the system, it is not powering it.

Tim

IanB:

--- Quote from: fonograph on February 04, 2018, 02:00:24 am ---Imagine a electret,wtf is electret you ask? Its just like magnet except instead of magnetic,its electric,and near this p electret is needle electrode connected to high voltage powersupply,the high voltage causes corona discharge,suddenly neutral air becomes charged ions.The ions will be pushed or pulled by the electret.

Now,my question is this,where the hell does that energy come from? The electret pushes/pulls and accelerates the ions,they gain kinetic energy,I dont understand where does this enery come from.
--- End quote ---

An ion is an air molecule that has had an electron stripped off it. It takes energy to strip an electron off a molecule, since the electron is bound fast and doesn't want to let go. The energy used to create the ions is the source of energy that causes the ions to have potential energy, and later kinetic energy. Just like a heavy weight in a gravitational field, at some point work had to be expended to put the weight where it is, and that work is the source of the kinetic energy of the weight when it falls.

fonograph:
No,its not,the ionisation energy have nothing to do with the kinetic energy gained by the presence of electret! I already wrote that in my original post,I repeat,the ionisation process energy,be in high voltage pulse to needle electrode or UV photon,does NOT have anything to do with the kinetic energy the ion gains from the electret.

IanB:

--- Quote from: fonograph on February 04, 2018, 02:22:10 am ---No,its not,the ionisation energy have nothing to do with the kinetic energy gained by the presence of electret! I already wrote that in my original post,I repeat,the ionisation process energy,be in high voltage pulse to needle electrode or UV photon,does NOT have anything to do with the kinetic energy the ion gains from the electret.

--- End quote ---

If you ask a question and then argue with the person who gives you the correct answer you will learn nothing.

Good luck!