Ultraheat Pro: Snake oil highly efficient heater....

[Faringdon]

Hi,
The following Ultraheat pro is being marketed as the answer to the gas crisis and high energy bills this winter.....

https://buy-ultraheat.com/reviews/ultraheatpro/uk/int1j2v4b/?key=kbsgpj1kkt2y4xfyfd2c&campid=18348295147&adgroupid=140891901109&adid=622078235691&placement_network=@g&keyword=ultra%20heat%20pro&matchtype=e&cacheBuster=14651626834033667901&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1bqZBhDXARIsANTjCPJtpzF015EVWjyAwI8TffrMiTr_6sLprML8y9XgMNQrfMErp4pfy_YaAsFyEALw_wcB

Surely just a lot of nonsense.
No better than any other convection heater
Would you agree?

[wraper]

Any electric heater is 100% efficient which says it all. You cannot go above that unless it's a heat pump which of course requires indoor and outdoor units connected together with tubes.

[Gyro]

UltraHeat Pro uses a perpetual heat loop. It recycles the heat that's generated so none of it goes to waste!

Wow, a fan heater that sucks in room air and blows it out hotter - that's inovative 

I suppose you could argue that blowing hot air directly at you rather than the room in general would make you feel warmer, but it's not going to be more efficient than the existing 100%. The dry air and faint smell of burning dust won't be that pleasant though.

[MrMobodies]

I was given one of those a couple of years ago and it wasn't to heat rooms up. It was used to keep something nearby warm if the heating went off below a certain temperature but no longer needed.

I used it as a little handwarmer only for a couple of minutes attimes in the winter where the plug socket was just above my worktop and he heating didn't work due to an airlock in the tiny flexible plastic pipe chosen to connect the radiator in the extension by the previous occupants.

Unfortunately the metal earth pin snapped off a year later.

[SiliconWizard]

Well, some claims don't make sense and some are obvious.

Does a fan heater warm up a room faster than a heater without fan? Sure. As long as the room is small enough for a given fan heater. If not, it's only going to be noticeable close to the fan heater itself.

But is it more "efficient"? If we speak about maintaining a given indoor temperature for a given outdoor temperature in steady state, nope. Of course not. The difference will just be 1/ either temporary (while the room is heating and temperature hasn't reached steady state), or 2/ just as a "feeling" if you're sitting next to the heater. But then if you want more efficient just for your own personal feel and not for the actual whole room , you could wear a heated vest or something. That'll do nada for the indoor temperature but it'll sure make you feel warmer while consuming less power.

And otherwise, sure we are going to see thousands of fricking stupid products and startups flourish with this whole made-up energy crisis. It was already bordering ridiculous (with all those solar roadways and graphene bullshit), but I'm sensing that it's going to reach a whole new level.

[MrMobodies]

All fake reviews as well:

Ingrid B


Klaus. A

[www.MKRD.info]

Any electric heater is 100% efficient which says it all. You cannot go above that unless it's a heat pump which of course requires indoor and outdoor units connected together with tubes.

But did you know that every computer is also a 99.9% efficient space heater as well???

[NiHaoMike]

Any electric heater is 100% efficient which says it all. You cannot go above that unless it's a heat pump which of course requires indoor and outdoor units connected together with tubes.

One could have a heat pump that heats up one part of the room while cooling down another part.

[Fraser]

These are just cheap and nasty plug-in PTC element fan heaters. Very small heating capability and certainly not worth anything like £59.99 ! More like £5.99 in the Pound Shop   

Think "plug in hand warmer" and you will not be far off 

They used to have adverts for things like this in the back of national newspapers..... fishing for fools who are easily parted from their money. Now you see them popping up all over Facebook. Just do your due diligence checks and you find them coming out of ASIA far cheaper than advertised on Facebook.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Amazon sell these fro £23.49 and at least the seller on Amazon is honest about the power output (maybe). They say 500W.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/STAYWARM-500w-Plugin-Heater-White/dp/B07L7CCQHV/ref=asc_df_B07L7CCQHV/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=330916248925&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6974073431973531170&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006933&hvtargid=pla-680870281594&psc=1

[Fraser]

I wasn't wrong about the real value of these units ! ....... £8.22 delivered to the UK

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001598997882.html?_randl_currency=GBP&_randl_shipto=GB&src=google&memo1=freelisting&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=17859472963&albag=&trgt=&crea=en1005001598997882&netw=x&device=c&albpg=&albpd=en1005001598997882&gclid=CjwKCAjwm8WZBhBUEiwA178UnGs2EY2HjF5gFn0T35rDCw1STqFrdh3GsOgWlN95pogIj3qIHPdoZxoCOA8QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=729fe8d85af6461fbc430416652b4d11-1664200467575-06142-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=729fe8d85af6461fbc430416652b4d11-1664200467575-06142-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=1e99b2d0e0184d70ac4bdf746f424ae8&afSmartRedirect=y


I certainly would not think of leaving one of these things unattended or sleeping in a house where one was left running on its timer !

[Fraser]

For a fan heater that can actually put some decent thermal energy into a room, you could do worse than the simple 2KW heaters available from Amazon. Some use conventional heating elements and others use PTC heating modules. There is nothing magic about PTC heater modules and nothing wrong with conventional heating elements ! Both convert electricity into thermal energy that may be pushed in a direction by a suitable fan. Neither technology is particularly great for heating a large room and these are better suited to directional heating towards the room occupant.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Aspect-Portable-Lightweight-Adjustable-Thermostat/dp/B09QCY993Z/ref=sr_1_16?crid=V89UI3IBG15R&keywords=2kw%2Bfan%2Bheater&qid=1664202227&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1LjQyIiwicXNhIjoiNC45MyIsInFzcCI6IjQuNzEifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=2kw%2Bfan%2Bheater%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-16&th=1

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Pro-Breeze-Ceramic-Heater-Built/dp/B089M8R6ZJ/ref=sxin_15?asc_contentid=amzn1.osa.bc6995fe-cc88-4e41-8c2e-8c9e61316b8f.A1F83G8C2ARO7P.en_GB&asc_contenttype=article&ascsubtag=amzn1.osa.bc6995fe-cc88-4e41-8c2e-8c9e61316b8f.A1F83G8C2ARO7P.en_GB&content-id=amzn1.sym.b5c831cd-6cc6-43ae-a983-386a9534fba5%3Aamzn1.sym.b5c831cd-6cc6-43ae-a983-386a9534fba5&creativeASIN=B089M8R6ZJ&crid=V89UI3IBG15R&cv_ct_cx=2kw%2Bfan%2Bheater&cv_ct_id=amzn1.osa.bc6995fe-cc88-4e41-8c2e-8c9e61316b8f.A1F83G8C2ARO7P.en_GB&cv_ct_pg=search&cv_ct_we=asin&cv_ct_wn=osp-single-source-all-asins&keywords=2kw%2Bfan%2Bheater&linkCode=oas&pd_rd_i=B089M8R6ZJ&pd_rd_r=6dd01d1b-5e40-4474-8e2b-fab7eb9232cf&pd_rd_w=Fh8bR&pd_rd_wg=EPHUF&pf_rd_p=b5c831cd-6cc6-43ae-a983-386a9534fba5&pf_rd_r=ZECQ6V0WF4M7H4DX2QTD&qid=1664203116&qu=eyJxc2MiOiI1LjQyIiwicXNhIjoiNC45MyIsInFzcCI6IjQuNzEifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=2kw%2Bfan%2Bheater%2Caps%2C176&sr=1-4-887d48f0-d798-4604-a3e5-14d9d204cf06&tag=offersbloguk-21&th=1


For room heating it is actually better to use a convection heater, with special mention for oil filled convection heaters. They create the same thermal energy as their equivalent fan heaters but they create a far nicer warming effect as the oil continues to emit heat whilst the thermostat is off, and this is nicer than the hot on/off effect of a fan heater. With oil filled heaters you do need to switch them on earlier than a fan heater to gain the best effect however.

De'Longhi Dragon Oil filled Heaters have an excellent reputation and I use them in the lab and in the conservatory. They are not cheap but they last and perform excellently. Cheaper models are available but some have a less than great reputation so do check the reviews before buying. I personally avoid any with a digital timer and elected to buy the type with a simple mechanical timer. This was important for Winter as I set my heaters to a low temperature to keep things ticking over temperature wise. If the power drops out, the mechanical timer just restarts when power is restored and the heating period gets shifted the time that the power was off. The De'Longhi Dragon model that has a digital clock/timer has been criticised as it has no battery backup for power outages and resets itself. The result is no timer settings = no heating ! Not great if you are away on holiday and do not want the lab getting too cold.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/DeLonghi-Dragon-TRD40820T-Filled-Radiator/dp/B00CA1T07G/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1W8H7QAVTD3W7&keywords=dragon+heater&qid=1664203221&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIzLjA4IiwicXNhIjoiMi4zNiIsInFzcCI6IjEuNjgifQ%3D%3D&s=kitchen&sprefix=dragon+heater%2Ckitchen%2C49&sr=1-4

Regarding the OP's post and that awful little hand warmer..... Using electricity to create heat is not going to be particularly cheap in any form except where you generate your own electricity. Watts cost money no matter if they are pure electricity Watts or the BTU's created from that electricity. Heat Energy has to be created and a certain amount of that energy is needed to heat a room of a specified size to a specified average temperature. No amount of cheap fan heater snake oil "heat recycling" can change that. Are they seriously trying to suggest that their unit is like some sort of air turbo charger providing improved heating for nothing ?  Typical marketing guff.

Fraser

[wraper]

Oil heaters are somewhat a scam too. Their stated power rating usually is only true while they are heating up. Once they reach certain temperature, thermal switch disconnects part of the heater so actual power usually is only about 1/3 - 1/2 of the rated.

[Fraser]

Wraper,

Indeed, oil heaters work differently to fan heaters but this is why they are recommended for heating a room, rather than the occupant of a room (directional heaters). The Oil is heated to its operating temperature, the exterior room temperature thermostat opens and the power to the heater is disconnected. The Stored thermal energy in the oil continues to be emitted into the room until the thermostat determines that the heating element is required again to top up the energy in the oil. It provides a nice gentle thermal cycle. This is where some oil heaters are better than others though...the De'Longhi Dragon Oil heaters contain powerful heating elements to quickly replenish the thermal energy in the oil that was lost between heating cycles. The size of the Dragon heater is matched to the room volume so that the heating process is pleasant for the occupant. Hence why you have to turn on an oil heater a decent time before wanting the room at the set temperature. The emitted heat is pretty constant and the built in heating elements just top it up as needed when the room temperature starts to drop. The key to selecting such a heater is to observe the manufacturers room size guidance and NOT to use just the heater Wattage rating. From memory my Dragon has three wattage settings and uses two heating elements (Heater 1/ Heater 2 / Heater 1+2). Heater 1 is 1KW900W, Heater 2 is 2KW1100W. I have checked the three settings current draw and the wattage consumed whilst the heaters were on was as specified by De-Longhi. So at least they are not fibbing in their specs BUT as you say, that is the wattage when the heater is on and not the BTU output of the complete heater per hour.

Fraser

[wraper]

Wraper,

Indeed, oil heaters work differently to fan heaters but this is why they are recommended for heating a room, rather than the occupant of a room (directional heaters). The Oil is heated to its operating temperature, the exterior room temperature thermostat opens and the power to the heater is disconnected.

That is entirely different thing. What I said has nothing to do with thermostat where you adjust temperature. What I said is that 1500W heater becomes a 600W heater after 10 minutes of operation even if it's still cold in the room. Thermostat is a different thing which completely disconnects the heater when required temperature is reached.

[Fraser]

Sorry I misunderstood you. That certainly is not the case with the De’Longhi Dragon that I use as I have previously tested its power consumption in order to estimate daily running costs. Wattage remained at the set value until the thermostat opened. This could well be why people said the Dragon worked well, yet similarly power rated, cheaper, models were criticised for poor performance. Like many things in life, you likely get what you pay for. The Dragons cost me around £120 each many years ago. They certainly work well for me. No complaints at all.

Thanks for raising this issue Wraper  as I have been wondering why some oil heaters perform better than others yet have the same wattage rating and appearance.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Wraper,

I just looked at the video you referenced…… those are exactly the types of oil filled radiator that should be avoided ! Cheap and nasty and the sort that I have read poor reviews about. Mine are most definitely a better design but then they cost a lot more to buy. I went for heating performance rather than lowest price and I do not regret it.

I think it should be stated that the way the oil filled heaters worked in that example video is not how a traditional oil filled electric radiator is supposed to work. Those units were basically cheap junk that was not fit for purpose….. a bit like the mini PTC fan heater at the top of this thread really.

Thanks again for telling me about the issues found in some oil heaters 

Fraser

[wraper]

Wraper,

I just looked at the video you reference…… those are exactly the types of oil filled radiator that should be avoided ! Cheap and nasty and the sort that I have read poor reviews about. Mine are most definitely a better design but then they cost a lot more to buy. I went for heating performance rather than lowest price and I do not regret it.

Thanks again for telling me about the issues found in some oil heaters 

Fraser

My way more expensive oil heater with digital controller which I purchased for EUR 150 has exactly the same issue. You simply cannot dissipate so much power in this size while using passive convection.

[Fraser]

 

Time to get my wattage meter out and test my Dragons again !

Fraser

[wraper]

IMHO the only way Dragon can deliver true power if it has larger size for the same power rating. I don't recall if I measured true power of my Mill heater but it certainly has that thermal switch clicking. EDIT: it's actually even more expensive now. Cheapest I found https://www.currys.co.uk/products/mill-abh1000dn-oilfilled-radiator-white-10225369.html?searchTerm=MILL%20AB-H1500 EDIT2: wrong model in the link, mine is 1.5kW.

[Fraser]

I agree. This has got me thinking ! It was over 10 years ago that I bought the Dragons and I may have tested them only on the lowest wattage setting and in the winter, that may have skewed my understanding of how they were working.

At the end of the day, to operate safely, without boiling the oil, you can only put as much energy into the unit as it can lose in convection. That makes sense to me. The oil must have a thermostat controlling the heaters to avoid an over temperature situation. So, as you say, the only way the Dragons can perform better is for them to have a greater surface area open to convection air currents plus a bit of radiation thrown in for good measure The Dragons were advertised as having a high efficiency “chimney” design that is basically enclosed sides with vertical “chimney” tubes. Whether that improves efficiency, I have no idea, but I suspect it just slightly increased the surface area and possibly encouraged faster rise of air through the chimneys ? I never really studied the design. I have heard of cheap oil heaters having issues with weird sounds (boiling oil ?) and an oily smell ! That said, I read reviews of Dragons where people claimed that they could smell oil 

I will take a look at the Dragon that is in our Conservatory and take more interest in its operation. Surface temperature would be interesting and the behaviour of the three power switch positions needs investigating. I can understand that once the oil is at its safe operating temperature, the selection of a higher power heating element should do nothing as the operating temperature has been achieved. A higher heater power selection would just replace lost heat from the oil quicker and also decrease the time taken to initially raise the oil temperature from ambient to operating temperature.

I would never have thought I would be thinking so much about my humble oil filled radiators  Good stuff though….. I am learning from this thread 

Fraser

[AVGresponding]

I have heard of cheap oil heaters having issues with weird sounds (boiling oil ?) and an oily smell ! That said, I read reviews of Dragons where people claimed that they could smell oil 

Fraser

Sounds like the typical psychosomatic crap that people who don't understand the technology spout. These things (the good quality ones like your DeLonghi units at least) will be filled with mineral oil, which is odourless.

[wraper]

These things (the good quality ones like your DeLonghi units at least) will be filled with mineral oil, which is odourless.

There are a lot of mineral oils and most of them have a strong odor. And even types which are completely odorless become smelly after years pass. Considering oil gets very hot in the radiator, I would assume even odorless oil will somewhat decompose and become smelly. Not to say I really doubt radiators are usually filled with more expensive odorless oil rather than some cheaper stuff as radiators are sealed anyway. If there is some smell, it means either there is a problem with sealing or some oil contamination was left outside if radiator during manufacturing which starts to smell when heated up.
Here is a video where a guy takes it apart. At 4:45 he says it smells like an automotive garage.

[Fraser]

I have just completed the testing of my De’Longhi Dragon 4 oil filled heater and here are the results………

Dragon 4 power settings : 900W/1100W/2000W

The test was carried out at the 2000W setting

Ambient temperature for the test was : 19.6C

Time.     Power draw.   Top of oil chamber.       Inside Chimney (air).  Outside surface of chimney

10min.  1950W.            110C.                            -                                  -
15Min.  1945W.            130C.                             98C.                            -
20Min.  1920W.            148C.                           108C.                            -
25Min.  1940W.            160C.                           108C.                            -
30Min.  1930W.            169C.                           107C.                            -
35Min.  1937W.            173C.                           108C.                            -
40Min.  1930W.            176C.                           108C.                           94C
45Min.  1922W.            178C.                           107C.                           94C

So the test was performed using two known accurate thermocouple thermometers from ETI and associated thermocouple probes. One rested on top of the oil chamber and the other was an air probe placed in one of the chimneys. A third probe was used to check the exterior temperature of the side panel/chimney.

The results are interesting. Thermal equilibrium occurred at around 45 minutes with the oil chamber temperature probe delivering a reading of 178C. At that temperature the chimney under test registered an air temperature of 107C and the exterior wall of the chimney read 94C on a surface contact probe thermometer.

Throughout the test, the heater was set to its highest power level (3) and at no time did the power draw become interrupted by any thermostat action. The Dragon 4 delivers the 2KW power draw specified until such time as the ambient temperature thermostat disconnects the power to the heaters.

At the end of a 46 minute test the accumulated power consumption read 1.461KWh.

That is approximately 2KWh for the full hour. 

The stated Wattages of the heaters when cool correlated well with live measurements of 904W/1120W/2000W

I think we can now see why the Dragon 4 oil filled heater has a good reputation. It runs nice and hot and has no daft behaviour such as shown in the video referenced by Wrapper. I cannot explain the reason for the difference. I can confirm that the oil in my Dragon 2 does not boil and there are no signs that the heater is in any kind of thermal distress. They call it a Dragon for a reason 

Fraser

Update: I just checked the Dragon 4 on its 900W setting and thermal equilibrium occurred at 100.3C on the top of the oil chamber.

A further check at the 1100W setting showed a temperature of 115.3C on the top of the oil chamber at thermal equilibrium.

[Jackster]

Another dropship scam.
Computer Clan on YouTube covers these items a lot. Very much a copy-paste sales page and the same deals as before. Same fake reviews and same fake product.