Author Topic: Tachyum Prodigy  (Read 7458 times)

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Offline Satan1clauSTopic starter

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Tachyum Prodigy
« on: November 22, 2020, 01:24:08 pm »
Hi, I would like to ask about this new startup Tachyum, because my friend wants to invest in this company. I really like the new idea of producing HPC, AI, all-purpose   Prodigy chips that that claim will have better performance than the latest most powerful Xeon chips or NVidia A100 chips.

I still can't get rid of the itchy feeling that it is too good to be true. Also, my question is that I don't really understand how they could build something smaller, 10x more energy-efficient and so powerful, what could be the main thing about architecture? The claim in the link provided below that the main problem is the latency of copper interconnections between the high-performing transistors and that by shortening them they can get more work done in the same time period. Also if you could help me find some sketchy things and just help find some main risks that could be the problems, I would be more than happy.

Here is the link to these Prodigy chips from the official company website: https://www.tachyum.com/products
And here the link where they are looking at the architecture and some specs: https://www.nextplatform.com/2020/04/02/tachyum-starts-from-scratch-to-etch-a-universal-processor/

Your help would be very appreciated. :)
 

Offline Satan1clauSTopic starter

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 01:28:07 pm »
Also one more thing I just noticed that they have working FPGA prototype, does this mean that their chip is at least working fine or what does it mean?

Also here link: https://www.hpcwire.com/off-the-wire/tachyum-sends-prodigy-chip-fpga-emulation-prototype-to-manufacturing/
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2020, 04:55:50 pm »
Also one more thing I just noticed that they have working FPGA prototype, does this mean that their chip is at least working fine or what does it mean?

Also here link: https://www.hpcwire.com/off-the-wire/tachyum-sends-prodigy-chip-fpga-emulation-prototype-to-manufacturing/
It is a prototype so that they can develop software.

The X86-type chips run an instruction set that descended form the Intel 8085, and has had things added on for the last FORTY-plus years!  First, moving it to 16 bits, then 32-bits, now to 64-bits.  All slapped on without a clean re-design.  It is a complete gargoyle!  Then, the chips take the instructions apart and convert them so some kind of pseudo-code which is then processed as a bunch of micro-operations, as data and results flow through the processor.  They have done amazing things with it, but it is really doing it the hard way.

So, I have no doubt at all that a clean-sheet design directed at improving efficiency and performance could make a huge difference.  The holdback is that they want to keep it X86 compatible.  Since all (new) code is now compiled in higher-level languages, backward compatibility is much less important.  Just write the compiler back-end and recompile your code.

On the other hand, Silicon technology seems to have hit a wall almost 15 years ago.  In 2005, we were moving up to 2.5-3 GHz CPU clocks, and we are now at 4 GHz.  That's NOT a lot of progress in 15 years.  Some guys I work with have been developing design methodology for designing GALS chips (globally asynchronous locally synchronous) chips, where major subsections would pass tokens around to keep processes in synch with data transfers.  This gets around the issue of keeping billions of transistors all in total lock-step synch all the time.

Jon
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2020, 05:10:08 pm »
They had 3.8GHZ CPUs in the mid 00s, they were not that powerfull by modern standards though, clock speed is only a part, it's overall operations that count.
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Offline jmelson

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2020, 12:14:28 am »
They had 3.8GHZ CPUs in the mid 00s, they were not that powerfull by modern standards though, clock speed is only a part, it's overall operations that count.
Right, how many instructions does it execute per clock cycle?  But, again, I don't see great improvements in the last 10 years or so.  Small incremental improvements.  I think the X86 instruction set may have reached its practical limits.  Maybe some sort of new instruction set architecture aimed at making code much more parallelizable is what is needed.  Of course, I don't actually NEED any more speed, but the giant server farms always want MORE!

Jon
 
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Offline iMo

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2022, 05:36:14 pm »
They claim 3 new Prodigy CPUs:

https://www.tachyum.com/products/

Is that something real?
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2022, 07:22:27 pm »
Cores galore, they support DDR5! Oh and all this on a 5 nm process! Woohoo!
 

Offline madires

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2022, 08:44:19 pm »
Clicking on 'full specs' provides a product brief with a list of buzzwords and the claim 'Runs binaries for x86, Arm, and
RISC-V in addition to native ISA'. I think this is going to be vapourware.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2022, 08:52:50 pm »
Yes, this all sounds like an all-you-can-eat buffet!
 

Online Kean

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2022, 11:55:45 pm »
But they have a prototype FPGA implementation that provides 2 cores per FPGA!!!!  :blah:
 

Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2022, 07:30:16 am »
Cores galore, they support DDR5! Oh and all this on a 5 nm process! Woohoo!

Wow DDR5 and 5nm? I can't believe it, they've finally...caught up with modern smartphones. ::) :blah:
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Offline Haenk

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2022, 12:29:17 pm »
I would think this is not a scam. Coming up with your own RISC design is not unheard of, TSMC has free capacity to manufacture 5nm. DDR5, x86 etc. can be added via IP cores. But getting software-support, bugfree silicon, low pricing and the promised specs met is another thing. So I'd rather not expecting "disruptive" technology. It's sort of EU's way to get rid of US technology.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2022, 04:10:52 pm »
It's sort of EU's way to get rid of US technology.

Which leads to one of the key questions, I think: Who is funding them? Is this all (or mostly) European grant money or speculative venture capital? Or did they convince actual players in the electronics industry to entrust them with money?

That would tell a lot about the level of credibility they have in the industry. Surprisingly (?) I could not find any funding information on their website. Has anyone been more successful there?
 

Offline madires

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2022, 04:54:24 pm »
https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/tachyum:
- US$ 42M
- investors are Across Private Investments, IPM Group, Government of Slovak Republic and IPM Growth
 
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Offline Haenk

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2022, 06:38:56 am »
plus
https://www.tachyum.com/solutions/european-chip-ecosystem/
So it seems EU is donating quite a lot of money. However, instead of US manufacturing, it's dependant on TW manufacturing (for now) and still uses a lot of US patents.
 
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Offline iMo

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Offline Haenk

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2022, 10:50:39 am »
An exit strategy?? 
 :)

Well, I suppose Covid didn't help with their development deadlines. Maybe they were a bit too ambitious as well  >:D
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2022, 06:36:14 pm »
plus
https://www.tachyum.com/solutions/european-chip-ecosystem/
So it seems EU is donating quite a lot of money. However, instead of US manufacturing, it's dependant on TW manufacturing (for now) and still uses a lot of US patents.

The EU is donating a lot of money to a bunch of dead-end projects.
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2023, 12:14:17 pm »
Any news on this revolutionary processor?

https://www.tachyum.com/

Quote
Tachyum Prodigy® chip is the world’s smallest, fastest and greenest general-purpose chip with wide applications in hyperscale data centers, private cloud, and AI/high-performance computing

They still show a proto FPGA board.. Any silicon ever produced?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2023, 12:15:59 pm by iMo »
 

Offline Haenk

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2023, 12:43:10 pm »
Any silicon ever produced?

Apparently, no.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2023, 09:53:04 pm »
Shocking!
 

Offline iMo

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2023, 09:57:17 am »
Funny to see the president of an EU country discussing the new processor with Mr. Danilak, who is running that company and development for aprox 8 6 years already (afaik), he promised to build a national supercomputer centre in that country based on that revolutionary CPU, got a beefy $ support, and all he can show today is a couple of readily available FPGA development boards.
Is this even possible to run such a business in EU?
« Last Edit: November 12, 2023, 10:12:03 am by iMo »
 

Offline madires

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2023, 11:52:22 am »
Of course it's possible, as long as you can find someone giving you money to burn. And since the EU is sponsoring the semiconductor industry to become less depended on others, I guess, it's not hard to get some bucks of that budget. Governments and agencies are inherently bad at evaluating new technologies and discerning nonsense.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Tachyum Prodigy
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2023, 09:19:07 pm »
Is this even possible to run such a business in EU?

Is this possible not to? :-DD
 


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