EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

General => Dodgy Technology => Topic started by: TheBay on April 13, 2018, 07:47:52 am

Title: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: TheBay on April 13, 2018, 07:47:52 am
Gobsmacked at this http://www.groundology.co.uk/earthing/grounding-sheets (http://www.groundology.co.uk/earthing/grounding-sheets)

Let's hope anyone using this has RCD's fitted and doesn't mind the tingle off their phone if plugged in to a typical "Double insulated" SMPS.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 13, 2018, 02:04:19 pm
Quote
Due to the growing popularity of these products, there are now imitations and counterfeits appearing on the market.  Everything here is a genuine Earthing™ or Groundology™ product.  Please be aware that official distributors are not permitted to sell on marketplaces such as Amazon and eBay, and so products sold there are not likely to be genuine.

 :-DD

Growing popularity...whith who? Hippies? Who would want to counterfeit :bullshit: ?

Of course they aren't allowed on big market sites, they're probably highly illegal (electrical certification wise) and also totally a scam! *cough* Ebay wouldn't care though... *cough* ::)
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: TheBay on April 13, 2018, 03:13:20 pm
Imagine it capacitively coupled with an electric blanket  :o :bullshit:
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Brumby on April 13, 2018, 05:36:20 pm
NOW you're cooking!
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Electro Detective on April 13, 2018, 07:06:21 pm
Another branch of Audiophoolery Inc.  ?    :-//

BS Businesses must be booming   8)


Time perhaps for yet another EEVblog -Group Facepalm-

:palm: :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:......

Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: mcinque on April 14, 2018, 04:05:24 am
Imagine a lightning striking the ground near the mains earth pole outside the house, with some residual energy climbing up on the earth cable till the socket and the bed.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Electro Detective on April 15, 2018, 11:55:01 am
Imagine a lightning striking the ground near the mains earth pole outside the house, with some residual energy climbing up on the earth cable till the socket and the bed.

That'll really get the dutch oven fired up  :o

 ;D
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Vtile on June 12, 2018, 08:01:41 am
People do forget how PE works. No need of lightning strike, just heavy shortcircuit failure in the same outlet group (copper losses / cable inductance)

On the otherhand this isn't any more dangerous than properly grounded kitchen sink or freezer.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: m98 on June 17, 2018, 07:17:54 am
Sure this is kind of a BS use-case, but why are you guys freaking out so much over product safety? This is in principle just as safe as any other ESD grounding equipment you use in your Lab as it uses a 1M protection resistor. The outside grounding rod might be a bit whacky, but even there I'm not sure how you think someone could be electrocuted in his bed from a lightning strike?
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: HwAoRrDk on June 21, 2018, 08:34:42 am
I think their yoga and fitness mat (https://www.groundology.co.uk/earthing/yoga-fitness-mat) is a good idea. You know what they say about sitting down all day being unhealthy, so ideal for the electronics lab for getting some stretching exercises in while remaining ESD safe. ;D
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 21, 2018, 05:01:26 pm
I'm not sure how you think someone could be electrocuted in his bed from a lightning strike?

Oh yes you bloody well can be...

http://www.weatherimagery.com/blog/can-lightning-strike-inside-my-house/ (http://www.weatherimagery.com/blog/can-lightning-strike-inside-my-house/)

Quote
Remember how we have no way of knowing what the path of least resistance is? Remember how lightning is a master of trickery? While I lived in North Carolina, the homeowners right behind us had their house hit by lightning. It went right through the top of their wooden roof creating a 2×2 foot hole. It must of flashed to the electrical wiring in the attic because it blew up every electrical appliance plugged into a wall outlet. The internal wiring inside the walls vaporized, blowing out chunks of drywall and left black acrid scorch marks in their place. About 35 feet from the front of their house was a utility pole and their house was surrounded by 60 foot pine trees. That day, the path of least resistance didn’t include any of those taller objects, but instead was an asphalt shingle roof. Here is a link to some pictures of another house unlucky enough to be struck by lightning.

https://www.mikeholt.com//mojonewsarchive/LSP-HTML/HTML/Lightning-Damage-Photos~20050802.php (https://www.mikeholt.com//mojonewsarchive/LSP-HTML/HTML/Lightning-Damage-Photos~20050802.php)

What would happen if you were connected to one of those sockets...
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: m98 on June 21, 2018, 10:16:02 pm
That's just not a thing in properly built houses. Also, there are safety evaluations regarding ESD equipment in workplaces during lightning strikes, and there aren't any reported cases of anyone getting shocked that way. Or are you hysterically running out of the lab as soon as you hear some thunder?
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: bd139 on June 21, 2018, 10:46:07 pm
I worked in a place which the building had a properly strapped earthing system. The lightning hit the conductor on the roof, went down the side of the building, decided to nip inside for a bit via a window frame, wrecked £50k of kit in a server rack, then popped out again and back down the conductor to ground. It doesn’t follow rules and building regs.

If there was a high probability of strike I tend to do something else for a bit now.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 22, 2018, 01:59:43 am
It is rare and gets worse if you have a wiring fault. My neighbor's house fried from a strike as well. Not as dramatic as the ones in the photos above but it does happen.

Remember, lightning is a static discharge between a cloud and the ground. So it stands to reason that anything connected to the ground, AKA your house wiring (and you if you're a grounding wanker), will become part of the potential difference and have current flow during a discharge.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: rsjsouza on June 22, 2018, 03:19:02 am
Just like others reported, I also have seen what a lightning strike can do in defiance of any protection regulations, even on edifications that were constantly under scrutiny by the local regulatory agencies - in my home town, lightning protection was mandatory on every building and commercial ones were yearly evaluated for compliance.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 22, 2018, 04:50:24 am
That's just not a thing in properly built houses. Also, there are safety evaluations regarding ESD equipment in workplaces during lightning strikes, and there aren't any reported cases of anyone getting shocked that way. Or are you hysterically running out of the lab as soon as you hear some thunder?

Yes, you should be afraid, because there are most certainly reports of people being killed or injured this way.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/how-a-man-was-struck-by-lightning-in-his-own-house.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/how-a-man-was-struck-by-lightning-in-his-own-house.html)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dennismersereau/2017/06/22/stay-indoors-how-lightning-can-strike-even-when-you-follow-the-rules/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dennismersereau/2017/06/22/stay-indoors-how-lightning-can-strike-even-when-you-follow-the-rules/)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3108728/Austin-teen-struck-lightning-inside-home-opening-refrigerator.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3108728/Austin-teen-struck-lightning-inside-home-opening-refrigerator.html)

If you see or hear lightning coming down to the ground nearby, get away from any wiring or large metal objects.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: BrianHG on June 22, 2018, 09:07:20 am
That's just not a thing in properly built houses. Also, there are safety evaluations regarding ESD equipment in workplaces during lightning strikes, and there aren't any reported cases of anyone getting shocked that way. Or are you hysterically running out of the lab as soon as you hear some thunder?

Yes, you should be afraid, because there are most certainly reports of people being killed or injured this way.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/how-a-man-was-struck-by-lightning-in-his-own-house.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/03/how-a-man-was-struck-by-lightning-in-his-own-house.html)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/dennismersereau/2017/06/22/stay-indoors-how-lightning-can-strike-even-when-you-follow-the-rules/ (https://www.forbes.com/sites/dennismersereau/2017/06/22/stay-indoors-how-lightning-can-strike-even-when-you-follow-the-rules/)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3108728/Austin-teen-struck-lightning-inside-home-opening-refrigerator.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3108728/Austin-teen-struck-lightning-inside-home-opening-refrigerator.html)

If you see or hear lightning coming down to the ground nearby, get away from any wiring or large metal objects.
I received from lightning strikes a jolt once in the shower and once through a telephone hand-set.  Luckily, they each were the equivalent to a super severe electrostatic shock.  In those grounding sheets, It might have stopped my heart.
When I was a kid, a tree just outside right in front of my summer camp cabin in the woods was hit just as I was about to go outside.  The flash was blinding, yet, strangely, not too loud.  It must have been a weak strike.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: Cyberdragon on June 22, 2018, 12:31:45 pm
Our neighbors house got hit on the wireless dog fence (or nearby). I think one of our trees got hit too since during a storm last year sometime there was a loud bang and a few months ago I was outside and spotted what looked like a still healing char/burn mark on the tree.

Strikes vary and can range in sound when nearby from a gunshot to dynamite.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: BrianHG on June 22, 2018, 02:27:11 pm
Our neighbors house got hit on the wireless dog fence (or nearby). I think one of our trees got hit too since during a storm last year sometime there was a loud bang and a few months ago I was outside and spotted what looked like a still healing char/burn mark on the tree.

Strikes vary and can range in sound when nearby from a gunshot to dynamite.
It is odd that the tree which was hit outdoors in front of me sounded more like having your ears inside a studio grade xenon flash tube.    It truly wasn't too loud, just an instantaneous snap like ignition.  (The tree being many 2 story tall bushes well crammed together, so we could not identify the one which was struck without working our way into the thick of it, and I also know that tree strikes usually have bark flying off the trunk with burn marks and sometimes flames yet there was no visible damage...)  I know that thunder from a lightning bolt is always blazingly loud especially when there is such a close strike even if it is weak, but this was some sort of fluke of nature.
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: jmelson on June 23, 2018, 07:09:37 am
When you are very close to the end point of a lightning bolt, the sound is often not very loud, like a car door being slammed.
As you are at the end of the bolt, all the sound is projected sideways out from the bolt, and you may hear echoes, but the initial sound is pretty modest.  I've experienced this a few times.

Jon
Title: Re: Taking ESD A bit too far...
Post by: David Chamberlain on June 24, 2018, 06:21:57 pm
I want my bed to insulate and isolate me from the ground. Call me old fashioned.